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"if we let killers know they are versing swf, they will always quit" Do you see what is wrong here?
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all you guys complaining about comms being a cheat I hope you dont have any comms programs installed and dont use them for other games otherwise you're hypocritical if you play mmo's hope they have in game voice chats otherwise you're cheating
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Have you never seen the video of tru3talent chasing a claud at the old meat tree for 30 minutes? That was before even nurse came into the game btw so u can’t use the argument that all survivors were bad.
Moris and Nurse were really the only things that much stronger back in the days. Old ruin although tediously only hurt bad survivors and often was taken out because people would actively search for it. Hah was far weaker when she was released than now. Spirit was actually perceived to be weak when she was first released so she was buffed quite a lot and she’s still just as strong today as she was a year ago.
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It's hard to say if it was intended or not, but they themselves acknowledged the issue of 4 survivors using coms back then, and promised that survivors would get debuff somehow to compensate the power of coms. After that they have been mostly dodging all questions abaut SWF. Mclean has said in stream that "we know it's unbalanced" they just don't care as SWF is their meal ticket. Personally i would by completely nerfing OoO as it gives SWF survivors god mode when they know the killers exact location all the time and start limiting perks they can use. Just like in tournaments survivors aren't allowed to use their normal meta because killers would struggle to get any kills.
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Once again, they have no choice =)
They can't say comms is cheating and then do nothing about it, so they have to be coping with it.
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This is such a strawman argument.
"SWF does not mean that they become godlike players by just clicking a Button to invite other players to their lobby"
You are making an argument against something that the OP and others are not arguing.
They are not saying that SWF and comms makes players godlike.
What they are saying is that SWF/comms gives an unfair advantage aka "cheating" by definition of the word. If we don't agree there then I can start linking definitions.
The point isn't removal of SWF before we start on that strawman either. The point is to find a way to balance around it, IE ranked/unranked queues etc. If you want to have a discussion on pros/cons of the different potential solutions then that would be a fair place to start, but we can't even begin to find a solution if you/others don't see that there is a problem in the first place.
@Justalittlepeeck summarized many of these points on this page already. We want a game to be lost from getting outplayed, not because the other side was by definition "cheating".
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In that case that would be a good indication that SWF is a problem which needs further addressing.
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
And yet in Amung Us the majority of the player base just shut the hell up for the sake of the good game, why the hell ppl can't do It in DBD? When I play with my friends we usually screw eachother and never call out killers (except when they're playing really scummy like camping or tunneling, and I mean REAL tunneling as "I'll drop this chase just to down the person that got unhooked in the other side of the map"). Everyone of our group play both sides, and not 20/80 but 50/50, so everyone knows how comms f. up killers.
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Majority and all are 2 different things. Like i said i haven't checked if hag has been buffed so imma check. I have only heard of spirit nerfs so im also going to check that as well. What i do know is a majority of players weren't as sweaty as they are today.
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This discussion is quite pointless. Your just trying to create an argument.
I need to say people have to stop comparing Dead By Daylight and Among Us. They are completely different! I've already explained this in another discussion but I'll do it quickly now.
A killer can beat a 4 man swf on comms. If people uses comms on Among Us it's IMPOSSIBLE to win as imposter. Someone just calls the button after someone is killed and they are voted off. If it's online with randoms then a party of 5 people will win 100% of the time. 4 people is 99% a win also unless the other 6 people immediately know the 4 others are working together.
Anyone who tries to compare Dead By Daylight Swf teams and Among Us comms teams just shows how little they understand this game.
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I would argue I get more baby survivors and blendettes than I did two years ago.
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The false analogy again, cheats mess with a game code and give an unbeatable advantage. SWFs with coms are harder? yes, we all know that but they are beatable anyway, Ive beaten many SWFs with coms, so have you and everyone in these forums, cheaters are impossible to beat unless they let you.
Cheaters are whole different breed, have you managed to catch a 150% permasprint Survivor or a Killer who activates EGC at the begining and ends it 10 seconds later?.
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Because in among us voice chat used like that doesn't just give an advantage, it makes the match completely pointless to play with just 3 words. "Red is impostor", "Red killed me" and the whole point of playing a mafia/werewolf type game like that is instantly gone. There's nothing even close to that impactful possible in DBD, the closest I can think of is calling out a hex totem or something and even that doesn't even get close. The entire goal of the game isn't to figure out the information that a dead player could instantly give you in under a second.
As a result far more people will simply choose to not be that guy. This is quite unique for games in that type of genre, as it was the same sorta thing when I played Town of Salem. I can't really imagine any other genre having even a tiny fraction of its population deciding that sharing information like that is too much.
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I think they should show POST game if people were in a group kind of like how Gears has that little line/bracket. I'm glad they don't have actual game chat you run into those sweaty people who act like their actual life is on the line or the person who leaves their mic on listening to music or talking to people in the room.
I do think they should balance around SWF but the reason they have things like kindred is to help people who solo queue. I doubt they made a 4v1 game without considering people using comms especially if it was first designed as a PC game.
All I can say is actually input some logical, objective balance changes to make it balanced instead of saying people communicating is cheating. If you can't come up with any you just need to get good.
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I did some research and found out some things about spriit and hag.
1st spirit only had a cooldown buff, other than that people didn't understand her power
2nd hag used to have a stun after teleporting which was removed, which is pretty substainal even if it was only one year into the game
So my point still stands, 2017 to 2018 had better tools but worse players, 2019-2020 had the opposite
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So you don't want SWF notification, you want everyone's username who has every used voice Comms in a "sweaty" way to share accurate information with their team and gone on to win games because of it to be branded with a little sticker saying "Some forum user thinks I'm a cheater."
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Yeah but where did I say that clicking swf leads to an automatic win? I don't afaik but it makes the game easier, it gives an ingame advantage and no it is not an automatic win. However playing with the same mates, around your skilllevel or perhaps even better usually helps to prevent lots of the soloq frustration that comes due to people who dc/suicide on hook. Your mates will not let you down like that or shouldn't.
I don't see SWF as an automated win, yet it makes the game easier by a bunch due to info that you get for free. Also you have more fun playing the game due to you know playing with friends.
€dit:
Also at the excuse of "nice swf" I more often get the accusation of cheating than SWF.
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Idk then I would continue to argue there were MANY good players back then, you just have to look at noob3 to start. But I guess it does depend on people’s experiences. For certain the average solo q was a lot worse, but they are still bad today.
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How is muting someone else making the game unbalanced? In games like predator or friday they can communicate without mics, using emotes, so i think they should also make more emotes that are in the base game. Also how does muting people extend queue times?
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Comms aren't even third party for console. On PS4 you can enter party chat and play with your friends. It's a feature of the system, not an outside party. You don't even have to download anything different. You just need the headset you bought to play Spirit.
Here's the thing, as has been said by others:
Killers need Buffs.
Solo Q needs a Buff.
But anytime it's suggested that we buff Survivors (even when we mention buffing Killers too) Killer Mains go nuts that we dare give Solo Survivors more information, even when it comes with balances that give them more power. The truth is, most killers who complain about SWF are complaining about it because they want easier games. You can't balance the game around SWF, until you buff the solo experience. That's a simple fact. Now, for those killer mains out there who agree that solo Queue needs a buff, they're probably actually interested in balance. But I don't see most of them advocating for buffs to survivor (or at least not without quickly being shut down).
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"It really isn't a strawman, it's just a fact. Most killer mains act like if you press SWF you become god like, and that they always go against 1% swf."
It is a strawman by definition. It is making an argument against a point that isn't being made, that is a strawman. SWF to some extent, but more so comms, gives an insane amount of perks to you past the normal 4 that you would normally never have access too.
Do you not agree that a survivor having 10 perks in a match is insanely stronger than 4 and that you are only intended to have 4?
Also, my point and OP's point have absolutely nothing to do with facing top 1% so I don't know why you even bring that up. That has nothing to do with the point of this topic.
The point of this topic is that SWF/comms gives an unfair advantage that they would not have by normal means. Whether they are rank 15 or rank 1 is irrelevant to the point.
"Now tell me, why should be balance around the 1%, when this game isn't built around the 1% and isn't a competitive game? (It has a leaderboard so newbies dont suffer)..."
While I do think the game should be balanced around high ranks that once again has literally nothing do with this topic whatsoever, please stay on topic of OP's post.
"It gives an advatange, oh yeah. Cheating? No, if it was cheating it would already been fixed, why it isn't fixed then? Oh yeah! Maybe cause devs dont consider it cheating, and if devs dont consider it cheating, then sorry but you need to accept that isn't cheating."
I can start linking the definitions if you would like. Cheating is gaining an unfair advantage, of which this fits that criteria. Just because the devs haven't fixed it yet does not imply it isn't cheating, that isn't rational. They haven't fixed it because they don't know how. Whether they consider it cheating or not is irrelevant, whether it is cheating or not is determined by definition of the word.
"Yes, we need a solution. Thing is most solution brought to the table literally kills or punishes people for playing with friends."
Of which none of those solutions I agree with as I do not want them punished at all.
What your post should have been, is stating that we haven't been able to think of a solution that fixes the problem without harming friends playing together, or asking us what ideas we have to fix the problem. However instead your argument is that there simply is no problem and misrepresenting our points.
"IF we want a solution, we should accept first that not every survivor is a god like team."
You literally just straw manned the exact same argument that I pointed out was a strawman earlier. The argument is not whether swf/comms makes players godlike. The argument is that is gives an unfair advantage. Whether that makes them "godlike" is irrelevant to the point being made.
"That WE shouldn't bring sepate queue modes cause that would increase the queue times"
This would have been a much more rational point to base around instead of the other points you made. This is something we can actually have a meaningful discussion on. Your other points misunderstand what is being said by others and denies the problem exists in itself.
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I wouldn't dodge. Survivors will kill themselves on hook when they stop having fun/to spite you, but they are willing to stay in the game and give you an actual match when they are playing with their friends. Like people have said, most people are doing just that, playing with their friends.
Just because they might be saying "He's on me" or "I'm going for the save, do gens" to save some time doesn't make them better at chases. If you're good at chases as killer, their communication means very little for most of the match. The problem is that most of you aren't good and rely on slowdown perks and uncoordinated teams for wins (which is most matches anyway).
If you think friends playing together and having fun in discord is them "cheating", your brain is smooth.
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Why should I bring a solution? I'm not a developer to do that, I'm a customer giving feedback.
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"OP's didn't bring a solution to SWF problems"
That is a rational point of which I agree. Solutions could have been offered by OP.
"Pretty much on my POV this is a us vs them thread"
I think that's a little bit of a stretch. His post just seemed like someone frustrated with some issues with the game that many people share. I didn't get an us vs them vibe from it at all.
As I said, I agree some constructive options for the problem should have been added or at least asking for ideas. However, most the posts including yours denies that there is a problem in the first place. So you're making the argument that he didn't provide solutions to a problem that you don't even think exists.
Just saying that we shouldn't really even be nit picking solutions until we can even agree on the basis of the discussion in the first place.
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It doesn't, it has double, so let's equilvalize and say 2 people are muted, thats 25% of your team. And it would be dumb to balance around all four mics. Should balance around 2 mics 2 muted mics
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I don't want to face survs with 60+ fps while my Xbox can't consistently play this game at 30 frames, down to 15 indoors. Is that performance disparity intended? Fair? Cheating? Or I disable Crossplay and then eat the queue times? What about video card this and sound card that, which no console now or upcoming can do? Is that cheating from the console pov?
Every bit of that is on the devs, just as balancing around comms is. I would dodge every SWF group as well, no bloodpoints bonus or whatever is worth it imo. But that too would also ruin queue times.
The only method that seems sane to me is to raise the solo experience and then rebalance killers around that. Exactly how to achieve this is highly debatable.
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"comms are a advatange (not unfair IMO but a advatange, yes they are)"
What makes them seem fair to you? To me it is unfair because the game isn't properly balanced around it and it is using an outside program not available to other players in game.
"Thing is if you look at OP's comment you can see a bit "Us vs them" and I looked at older thread history of him and he likes to do that."
I'm judging the post itself, not his history of posts. His history could have a lot of "us vs them", I haven't looked, but we're talking about this one, not the others.
"Imo OP should do another thread with the things I mentioned, He didn't even bother saying why solo's play SWF, why SWF is a problem, Why SWF needs a fix, Bringing a solution to SWF, buffing solos.. Literally nothing, that's why pretty much this thread turned into a us vs them"
He actually did explain why SWF is a problem and why it needs fixing. Although it was not in the original post which would have been better I agree.
It seems your issue is more how he went about his post rather than disagreeing with the point itself, of which I could agree with that. You seem to have changed your original stance on the topic somewhat. Your original point seemed to be disagreeing with his premise, not the wording.
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All possible solutions have already been discussed, why should I repeat them?
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Which makes your thread useless and a waste of time. We already have thousands of bad/average players that think they are DBD gods and the second a survivor gives them a reality check they scream "SWF COMMS OP" on the forums.
Complaining without offering a solution and ignoring counter arguments is a childish way to deal with anything in life. Tell us in the OP what you think could be done about the 1/20 premades that actually sweat.
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Hopefully the balancing is the vary between number of mics active isn't that much so that 2 mics and 4 mics aren't that much different. It would require time and effort but IMO i think its worth it
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It is frustrating the devs don't fully commit to ingame comms for all survivors (solo and SWF) and constantly seem to be struggling with balancing the game around one group of solo survivors relying on perks to read the game and others bypassing these perks because they are in an SWF with comms, the difference when playing killer vs each group is huge and the devs need to shorten that gap.
Until the devs add ingame comms for all survivors they will always struggle to balance the game for everyone.
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Maybe they flip out because they know that it will take the Devs forever to buff the Killers after Solo is buffed. Do you really think Killers would have fun playing against buffed Solo players while waiting to get buffed themselves? It took the Devs 4 years just to address the crappy maps that Survivors have been abusing since the start of the game. It took them the same amount of time just to make some Killers more balanced.
Playing Killer is frustrating enough, having to do it against buffed Solo Survivors will cause many to quit since we all know it’ll take forever for Killers to get in a good place afterwards.
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I think you missed the part where i specifically said in their streams 4 years ago.. it's not first time devs have flip flop their words. Let me give you some examples. "Killer was never intended to see hook auras" - few patches later "fixed the issue which prevented killer seeing hook auras" Also they claimed MM addons were bugged even the description specifically said what they are supposed to do, then they nerfed them
"infinites are mind games"
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I totally agree with you, but how would do deal with Coms? I think there is little to nothing that can be done.
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The problem is most people like yourself it seems don’t understand most swf groups aren’t much better then if they were solo. So you and others would dodge swf lobbies which makes up the majority. If players can’t play with friends because of longer ques they won’t go to solo they will leave causing you to also get much longer ques.
ps: there is a swf indicator in game more or less. Use crossplay to look for groups of players in multiple consoles. For example I typically look for 2 from my own and 2 with the indicator for more easy paced games.
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If they want to play with friends, there's a special mode called "kill your friends" where they can play however they want without involving random people into "their" fun which very often doesn't mean the random would have fun aswell, regardless whether these guys are playing bad or good. If they want to play with anyone else but themselves, they must play by the rules everybody plays.
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Because we don't need that, discord makes a better Job.
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Well tell bhvr to add bp, xp, rift challenges, rift xp, etc to kyf then. Again as I said tho this is unnecessary as you can find lobbies with solo, duos, and trios easy. It only takes me a few skips to find one most of the time. Sometimes I find those guys rushing through more then swf because they have the gens before friends mindset a lot lol.
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i also like to blame my losses on swf, i no longer have to learn how to play or improve because swf is just so damn op
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If you want to farm bp, xp, challenges and so on, then follow the rules and concept of the game instead of using legal cheats and then acting like the problem isn't yours attitude.
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your circus left without you, pal
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The problem is that, at lower ranks, SWF is synonymous with 'smurf group'. These were all encountered at rank 13-14 and about half of my games look like this right now, making it very difficult to rank up.
The devs don't care. That's the thing.
How do I know?
There was a protection to stop what I posted above, where SWF groups would always be matched against killers of the same or higher rank than the highest ranked survivor in the party.
BHVR quietly removed this because these same groups complained a few times that their queues were longer.
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take a step back, stop enforcing the idea that all swf players are godlike players and unbeatable and maybe just maybe, you might actually learn that swf aint as op as everyone says
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How is anyone cheating? It’s literally in the game that removes it from becoming a cheat.
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smurf protections still in the game, this is just matchmaking being stupid
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and the solution is giving these benefits to solo players and buffing killers accordingly
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What type of swf are we talking about 4 man, 3 man, 2 man?
If 4 man I would sorta understand, However if it's 2 man or maybe 3 man to a certain extent then I would say its probably fine.
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Easy:
- Restore killer matchmaking
- Restore anti-smurf measures.
- Killers gain a bonus 25% BP for every survivor queued together.
- Generators take 15% longer to repair for every survivor queued together (or) survivors will have their matchmaking rank increased for every survivor queued together.
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Nope.
I'd have to dig up the thread, but a dev confirmed that both killer matchmaking and this 'smurf protection' were quietly removed some time ago.
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i play on a SWF 4 man and we are not that good still we 4 man escape 9 out of 10 times, and the other we smash those 5 gens anyway and 1 or 2 always manage to escape agiasnt spirits, onis and else... 4 man does break the game to the core especially if they are good.
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Anti Smurf?
Also what do you mean by killer matchmaking?
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