Even Otz finds Undying + Ruin meta boring af
Can we adress this combo already? Like jeez, playing against this in solo Q is the most boring bs to verse. Team mates are trash and cant focus gens nor find totems. All the jobs are due to me. I need to do everything. Like, I used to do everything before this combo already: Do at least 2-3 gens, unhook mates before next stage, get chased for minimum 4 minutes while being super greedy with pallets cuz my team mates cant stand longer than 10 seconds without 100 of them and then find the noed at the end.
Now? all of this + cleansing minimum 3 Totems on my own. Nothing is getting done. Its super unenganging because most killers ignore me once I loop them for 20 seconds. They realize Im not easy to down so they go for my potatoe mates.
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And whole community agrees that DS+UB is broken. Let's change that first.
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whataboutism much
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I don't care, it's much more broken than Undying/Ruin and it's been like that for years.
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yep but when we talk about ds + UB we get whataboutism abour UD + RN so why killer can't use that and survivor can
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I mean, DS is really overdue for a change.
As for Ruin+Undying it is boring and oppressive at times- ESPECIALLY in solo queue and sometimes even in swf groups but at the end of the day killers are almost ALWAYS going to bring gen regression perks if they have them.
Pop and Oppression can be an equally powerful combo. Bottom line if a killer is applying pressure and regressing gens they are doing what they're meant to do and I don't find it fair to complain about it it would be like killers complaining about survivors repairing gens.
Now all that being said.. I do wish they'd look at totem cleansing rather than Ruin Undying. I think totems need to be reworked in the way you cleanse them, their current duration is fine but losing ALL progress on the cleanse if you have to let go/get hit/grabbed is beyond painful especially if the killer camps the lit totem with Undying's aura read.
What I propose is that if you let go of a totem before finishing the cleanse, it will begin regressing like a generator that just got kicked. If Ruin is in play, the regression bonus from it could affect this totem regression as well. Basically I just want totem cleansing to be a bit more bearable if we get pressured off of them and the killer decides to camp it. This way another survivor could try to finish the cleanse or you could come back to it and maybe finish cleansing it before it resets to 0.
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I don't mind it so much. I just run small game all the time now and do every totem I see. Yeah it'd be nice and more manageable if my teammates also joined in but I'm used to being the designated totem smasher.
I'm not too sure about the aura reading though, especially on dulls.
Also DS/UB may be worse but it's still whataboutism to bring it up out of context. You can discuss one thing people have issues with without having to discuss a different thing at the same time.
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This is a combo that can flat out be removed from a match. Doing totems ( hexes and dull ) is the easy counter.
As for your teammates, DBD is a team game for survivors. The match is dependent on you working together with them. If they don't do totems, that's on them, not the perk combo itself. If you know that Ruin/undying is a meta combo, then bring perks to counter it. Otherwise you're complaining for nothing because you refuse to adapt.
Also, calling something boring is not an excuse to nerf it. State exactly why you hate it, or don't complain at all.
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"For years"... DS hasn't been reworked for "years".
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No.
It doesn't need a big nerf. Remove Undying aura reading on non-hex totems. That's all.
Ruin/Undying promotes healthy gameplay. If you are a tunneling/camping Killer, you won't get value from it. If you spread out pressure and move around, you will get a ton of value.
At most, you'll have to cleanse four totems. You could also cleanse two. It's RNG.
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This thread has a clearly defined topic. Please stick to it.
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why not change both?
seriously whats up with people acting like Undying was okay just because survivors also have overpowered stuff?
that doesnt make it any less problematic.
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Kinda weird to say "Even Otz..." the man helped the community brainstorm a whole list of tweaks for perks and addons and Undying was among them.
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Ruin is disgustingly strong. The only thing holding it back, making it weaker than old ruin, was the fact that it was usually gone before it could become effective. Now there's this genuinely disgusting combo it gets slapped on to with zero thought that people insist promotes healthy gameplay as they destroy all but the most organised SWF or luckiest randoms.
Seriously, Ruin/Undying is my "I wanna win" combo. I've never had an "I wanna win" combo on killers before, only survivor. It's wierd how much difference there is between the two roles BS.
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How isn't it healthy?
It encourages the Killer to spread pressure out over multiple Survivors, instead of tunneling or camping. Would you prefer a perk combo that encourages the latter?
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When I slap it on, I 4k constantly with little effort. That's not healthy. And that's ignoring all the times I've gone agaisnt killers that just chase people off of gens with Tinkerer or Discordance and win that way.
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Survivors are just lazy, this combo becomes extremely powerful late to mid game as long as it stays up
counter just do bones and stop complaining instead of idk playing the game with the slightest bit of side objective
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Sorry, opinions of Content Creators are only allowed if they are killer-sided. No place for objective opinions here.
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I dont care about your opinion either
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something something post another video of a game that goes "fast" ignoring the 30+ videos before of 4ks something something get to the end of the "fast gens" video to find out they 3/4k'd anyway and the video is 10 minutes long something something
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God you lot are exhausting
Killer good, survivor bad
No! Survivor good, killer bad
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i mean he isnt the father of us so who cares what he thinks
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His opinion does hold a lot of weight in the community and with good reason; in all fairness.
Doesn't mean he can't be wrong, but his opinions have a lot of value regardless of if you agree with them or not.
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Probably just me, but I don't find this unfun to vs at all. I just bring Detective's Hunch and in most cases the combo is out in afew minutes. Leaving the Killer with 2 perks. Bad aboom done free escape in some games.
But If you'd like to talk about ubfun build we can talk about DS and Unbreakable:)
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i mean he is a rank one player which many people are so
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Any repetitive meta can inevitably become stale and as a survivor you’re going against Ruin, bbq, pop etc so of course it gets boring.
If you look at it through the killers perspective though. Literally for years tons of people that enjoy playing killer have been hoping for gen speeds to be looked at because sometimes they just fly by way too fast so SOME players (definitely not all) are simply using some perks to try and continue having some fun of their own.
Do I think Ruin/Undying is fun? No but neither is doing generators lol. It’s much for fun engaging with the killer, helping out survivors, trying to Kobe.. all that jazz.
Personally I think perks like Devour, Infectious, Agitation, Blood Warden etc. That’s my idea of fun so I’m not putting Ruin/Undying but to each his or her own, right..
I won’t put words in someone’s mouth and can’t speak for anyone but I am an Otz fan like many others and Ruin/Undying is quite common in a lot of his “win” streak games because it’s effective especially when pressure is spread out. Some players run this combo and you might not even realize it because 3 gens pop during the first chase the killer prolonged.
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Team mates are trash and cant focus gens nor find totems. All the jobs are due to me. I need to do everything.
You do realise the other 3 survivors in the match are thinking the same thing, right?
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Exactly. And when those pro players like him or truetalent/tofu run meme/non regression build they have to slug/proximity camp/tunnel the ######### out to actually 3 or 4k sometimes even 2 with keys tho they have 5000+ hours. Now imagine people who are not paid for playing.
The funniest being they rarely Get shitted on on end chat cause good survivors know that without that they ll get 0/1 kills top the time gens get done.
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Imagine complaining about Ruin-Undying. This comment was made by a Detectives Hunch gamer.
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I don't get how the "ruin/undying" meta is this huge target of the baby survivor "omg this is boring cause im bad whaaaaaaa" crowd. I personally despise hex perks, because they're inconsistent trash, but regardless, imagine whining about a KILLER meta that has been around LESS THAN 4 MONTHS, but everyone seems to find the busted survivor 2nd chance meta that's been in the game for 4+ years just fine. Even though it's far more powerful, and exploitable than ruin/undying.
I think before entertaining this "ruin/undying is boring" nonsense, the never changing crutch meta of survivors that's existed for far longer should be addressed. You don't think game after game of "E to outplay, unbreakable second chance, DS when working on a gen" for the last 4 years has been boring? But RUIN/UNDYING, hex perks that can literally be deleted from the game if you put down your crutchy builds and run the actual counters...that's the real problem somehow. That's what everyone whines about.
It's only bad if killers have crutches, apparently. Parrot ScottJund and call it whataboutism all you want, but at this rate it's just comical to see survivors whining about boring when this combo has only existed a few months. You don't know what boring is.
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Ruin/Undying exists because genrushing is very hard to counter against skilled Survivors. You can only chase one person at a time.
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That's healthy gameplay.
Everyone gets to play the game and earn points.
Have you considered that you might be facing bad Survivors? Generally, when I equip Ruin/Undying, it's gone within 2 minutes. There are odd games where its gone in 30 seconds or it never gets cleansed, but generally its up for about 2 minutes.
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Honestly,the best counter to Ruin+Undying is just having trash RNG like me and get your Undying cleansed first,then your Ruin afterwards and play with 2 perks for the rest of the game ★~(◠‿◕✿)
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That's not healthy gameplay and I'm not facing bad survivors. Healthy gameplay isn't camping generators. My survivors don't mysteriously go form borderline deathsquads with all the good stuff and decent looping skills when I don't have Ruin/Undying to mediocre morons when I do that also have all the goods stuff and decent looping skills but mysteriously the gens get massively slowed.
If you want to run perks, run perks. But don't try to come up with justifications for it, just go "I wanna win." There's nothing wrong with that, it's a videogame. When I want to win, I run broken perks and adodns and items. And I accept how broken they are and that, at the end of the day, no amount of justification changes the fact that I win a lot more when I equip them.
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Should we have perks that enable tunneling?
Also, your example of how when you equip these perks you win more isn't great. Of course you win more with good gen regression perks.
Let me try a different approach, how would you like Ruin/Undying to be changed?
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I think it's a great example. The fact that they are the strongest regression build in the game overrides everything else, and given that things like PGTW, Corrupt Intervention and Sloppy Butcher were already steamrolling most teams before Ruin/Undying... Well, clearly it's not exactly a healthy combo. And it doesn't at all prevent killers from camping it tunneling, it rewards it because no-one wants to watch their teammate get bullied. Health, healthy gameplay.
And yes I want to know how I would nerf it? Nerf Ruin. 200% regression is too much, it's too punishing and survivors have no realistic way of avoiding it thanks to Undying, because there's no realistic way to cleanse all 5 totems and it's unfair to look at the lucky few that knock out Undying immediately and claim that that makes it balanced.
But who cares. Everyone gets points, right? So long as the killer wins?
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I'm trying to remain neutral and understand where you are coming from.
200% regression is only HALF the speed at which Survivors repair gens. So if you think that regression is too fast, surely you must understand why Killer's feel that gens go too fast.
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This is because most killers tunnel slugs.
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Its unpopular opinion, but i just have to say it. Killer is not bound to surv rule book. Killer is allowed to use any strategy to kill survivors. This includes slugging, tunneling and camping. To get a kill, killer can do anything. Killer should not care about your fun if you dont care about his.
Yes we can all be nice and instead of tunnel go for rescuer if the time and situation allows. Sometimes however you just cant allow survs to recover. And that is ok.
Speaking in dev terms, this is a mind game with many strategies. Slugging, tunneling and camping are strategies. Killer does not do it to piss you off. He is playing defensively and trying to get the kills he can.
Yes it is unfun and "TOXIC", but tell you what, killer is no fun to play anyways.
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Because survivors are so strong that you absolutely cannot get 12 hooks, when good team comes no matter what killer you play, you are getting stomped, they need serious nerf.
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Im bored of it as killwr. O switched back to just corrupt for slowdown. Makes me more aware of if im actually playing well or being carried by it.
As survivor its so common I just threw on small game and repressed alliance.
Prettt dull but nerfing it would just bring back the corrupt/pop meta. 90% of experienced killers dont even need these perks to play well but they're so obsessed with the 4k or the rare sweat squad that they rely on them too much.
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Yes let's change ruin and undying because some guy finds it boring. Seriously tho just destroy totems. Use detectives or small game. Games go way too fast without some type of gen regression. Yes you can 4k with no regression perks but you have to slug, tunnel, stay near the hook just to have a chance. Bad survivors want to the build nerfed but as soon as someone says "what about ds and ub" those same people are quick to defend that combo like their life depends on it.
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Well, you are not wrong the survs lifes do depend on it literally
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For me it either never gets cleansed, or it gets found in the first 30 seconds.
No in between.
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The devs said they were going to nerf Undying IIRC.
IMO it should just have a cooldown on the aura reading. That's really what makes it so powerful. If you nerf that the combo isn't as bad because it will be like any other totem build, a risk.
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I'm surprised some people are hailing it as the best and only regression perk combo when pop and oppression exist.
Ruin undying can be cleansed.
Pop and oppression are forever and not tied to hex totems.
Heck there's all manner of other slow down perks from Thanatophobia to Sloppy Butcher. Slow down is annoying but it's a valid strategy for killer just like how trying to speed through generators is good for survivors. It gets frustrating when killers stack slow down but you just have to undo it or power through it (The latter is very risky).
Again, I wish they'd rework the actual cleansing of totems rather than ruin undying.
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This combo can get removed from the game in 30 seconds, especially if someone brings a map or everyone spreads out. I run detectives hunch/ Inner strength and I never have problems with the combo. Perhaps just find different ways to adapt with the new meta, its what everyone has had to do at one point.
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This is because gens go to fast and this is the only way to unstick more than 1 surv of them.
Just saying, im not fan of slug but when 1 or 2 gens are left in 3min, slug 1 or 2 is the only way to slow the game and find the stealthy ninja(s) survivor(s) who hug gens and play hide and seek the whole game, leaving their 2 buddys doing the hard work.
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4 Min genrush meta is boring for most of killers
DS+UB+DH+BT meta is boring for most of killers
Premades with OOO meta is boring for most of killers
I am sorry, but Ruin + Undying is not the main problem at this moment.
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I see Tofu 4k religiously, even before Ruin/Undying, WHILE reading chat and barely paying attention to the game.
Not to mention, him and many killer mains are playing more and more survivor because "killer is too easy". Morf is on record for saying this as well. He just said it earlier this week on stream, same with Zubat.
So Idk, chief. For people who actually watch these players, this smells of BS.
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Fun options but a lot of what you mention has rudimentary counters or agregious issues like blood warden not opening the gates till last second. Hell they nerfed pop even tho its way more engaging then ruin. Pop was favored by the low pressure killers and now it really hurts its utility seems like a deliberate attempt to push ruin undying.
Then you have regression perks like surge, dead mans switch and sloppy which all have arbitrary restrictions. Stuff like the m1 clause or targeting specific survivors. Ruin undying is consistent require little time investment no obnoxious hoops that is what half of these "fun" regression perks should look like.
Instead we keep getting perk that demand we take time out to kick a gen or the m1 clause which is extremly aggravating. Thantophobia overall has been nerfed further. Its ridiclous suggesting a killer uses these perks wjen there just so bad.
If you want me to kick a gen you have no idea how bad that is to take time out and the consequences that occur as a result. It gives distance to the survivors, allows better hook save prep, reduces time hook pressure so the surviors can take more tiem to work on other gens before needing to hoof it to the save.
Going forward consider the following when maling regression based perks.
1. Make the effects hit all gens globally not as powerful as pop but a lesser version that could help slow the game down. If the perk demans kicking gens it needs to be a lot stronger then garbage like oppresion.
2. Avoid the m1 clause its is way more restrictive then you think and it makes killer builds for power based killers super limiting. Creates a lot of useless perks that the killer will never be able to use effectively at all. Looking at you surge.
3. Avoid rng regression dying light and obssesion based regression creates a lot of scenarios where your perks can yield no value to little value which on 4 perk loadout is unacceptable.
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