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I hate keys - how would we fix them?
2 Survivors dead and three gens done: I find the hatch first. I stand on it.
The 2 remaining survivors (who hid, healed, and searched together), just simply run up and escape. There is very little counterplay to keys, and I hate them in their current state.
Suggestion:
Why can't the hatch have a unlock bar and sounds like opening chests?
Comments
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Thats a good idea, but I think my suggestion would just be to either remove them, or make it so they only work on a hatch that's already been closed, kinda forcing it to be a last ditch effort item for the final survivor and ONLY the final survivor.
2 -
Best case scenario: keys are only used for aura reading, and have the added functionality of opening chests instantly. Leaving the hatch as a chance for the remaining survivor to escape if they're lucky.
What I hope will happen: keys take 10 seconds to open the hatch, and only one person may escape per key.
What will probably happen: the key takes 3 seconds to open the hatch, and everyone can still escape at once because the devs can't change a stupid achievement.
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Option 1) Give it an activation time (3-10 seconds)
Option 2) Hit 3 skill checks of BNP difficulty. Progress resets if you let go.
Option 3) Only the person with the key can escape
Option 4) 4 survivors and 0 gens remaining = no hatch spawn.
Option 5) 1 survivor and 5 gens remaining = no hatch spawn.
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The easiest and best change would be to let the hatch only spawn if either all gens get completed or only 1 survivor is left.
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Delete them. Easy fix.
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That's basically what they did to moris. They just hate doing anything to survivors
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I don’t really think there’s a cure for keys, other than opening a hatch that has already been closed. Other than that, I think the concept is kind of cheap. If you have the RNG to come across the hatch, woohoo, free escape. Whenever I use keys, I only use them if I really dislike the killer and for aura reading.
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Aura reading only, they shouldn't open the black lock.
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The key should only allow the hatch for only one survivor only.
No keys should be able to be found in chests.
Hatch spawns when one survivor is left.
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For starters, the broken key should be an entirely different item.
I’m tired of equipping one with Unique Wedding ring for some information during the match, only to be tunnelled to death because the killer is terrified of hatch escapes.
12 -
make broken key yellow, add a green key. Green and purple can open chests instantly for half/third of the keys power. They cannot open hatch. Pink key can open hatch after a 5s animation. the hatch closes and moves instantly after, making multiple keys needed and the hatch to be found all over again.
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The problem of the key is the problem of the hatch. It is a terrible solution to survivors taking the game hostage.
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I'd like to see them change the hatch mechanic. Only have the hatch spawn when there's one survivor left or when all five gens are done.
No more multiple survivors escaping before all the gens are done. No more hatch campers letting the other survivor take all the heat trying to do gens. And DCing to give someone else the hatch becomes a lot less viable.
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Keys should work only for aura reading, insta opening the chests and reopening the hatch once killer has found it and closed it. That gives ONE survivor last chance to escape without riskier gate-play and won't end the game prematurarely.
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"adapt" or get over it and stop using a broken key.
I'm tired of bhvr ignoring their fanbase in favor of profit. The fix for these things is obvious, even a baboon can think of a solution. Facts are though is that they favor survivors because they are the money makers.
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simply replace the keys aura reading with perks, (bond, empahie, ooo...) problem solved.
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You’re both entirely missing the point.
If your counter argument is “just don’t use them” or “just use perks instead”, that only further supports my claim that the broken key should be reworked.
What’s the point of having an item in the game that many recommend shouldn’t be used?!
7 -
This
Fixes the problem, keys remain usefull in the scenario where you are the last one left and the killer closes the hatch and the achievement remains untouched. best of all it's a simple number change
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So this is killers complaining about the 2 keys, rare and ultra rare. Broken key doesn’t that can open hatch. Couple things. The hatch spawns randomly and sometimes very hidden, sometimes put in the open. Then you have a tiny portal, or equalizer. Pretty frustrating getting end game and having the killer patrol the last few generators between a few survivors. Then gates spawn sometimes to close and the killer can camp midway, and unless some perk is being used will very likely get to the door. Boooo hooo. Keys are mostly useless. How many games you see someone carrying one. EXACTLY!
this mechanic is fine.
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you can use they key if you want.
If a killer tunnels you for that alone he is most likely about to throw the game. there is no reason to tunnel a key anyway ( can get picked up, can only be used late in the game). blind tunneling is a bad idea, franklins is a better option...
you get tunneled because the killer doesnt know better or is salty. and key is no exceptions. you get tunneled for teabagging, too long chases, too many flashlight saves... there are millions of reasons and a key is just one of them.
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I'd go with this.
Hatch states: Locked, Unlocked, Opened, Closed. Survivors must interact for 10 seconds default to open the hatch door. Keys can only open Locked and Unlocked hatch states. Dull key reduces open time to 6 seconds, Skeleton key is 4 seconds. Hatch door stays open for 15 seconds when opened, and will close when this time elapses or earlier if a survivor jumps in/killer jams the door.
Locked - hatch is spawned on the ground and visible. Only keys can open the door for one survivor to jump in. Becomes Unlocked after it closes.
Unlocked - black fog leaks out and hatch makes noise, default state when 1 survivor remains. Can be opened with or without keys. Can be jammed shut permanently by killer triggering EGC becoming Closed state.
Opened - Allows 1 survivor to jump in or the killer to jam it shut. Changes to Unlocked state after it autocloses in 15 seconds. Makes loud noise notification when the door closes.
Closed - Hatch is permanently shut and EGC is triggered.
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First 3 options I agree with
Option 4: This would make the achievement for all 4 survivors to escape via hatch impossible, and if all 4 survivors are still alive by the time all gens are done its almost a lose for the killer anyway
Option 5: The whole reason why hatch spawns when a survivor remains is to end the game, I don't want to go back to looking for a survivor for 30 minutes with no tracking perks just because he has no other option other than hide.
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I actually belive keys are fine, and dont need to be changed.
Keys and hatches are one of the few things that keep solo survivors going, because there is still hope. Otherwise, they can at times just run up to the killer and get themself killed.
I would rather see keys unchanged and see some all-over-killer buffs, like a lot of the reworked maps (even though some of them went to far in my opinion; i am ok if you can either loop, or hide, and not both, but none is surly not the way to go).
I agree that killers need something, but keys usually only come into play if the killer won already (often due to a dc or something; its not always earned); insisting on the last kill seems kind of petty to me.
When i played killer, a 3k was as good as a 4k for me. But then, i don´t play killer anymore since the mori nerf, because mori was one of the few things i had to deal with swf.
SWF with a key is something different though, since they have the advantage anyway, and then a "what-if-i-fail"-option seems a little much. But for solos its needed, unless you want to turn every survivor into an swf player.
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yea, those killer crybaby complain about key while they have easy game.
key are fine and should never be change as much killer main want it
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I think first they should change the appearance of the broken keys and rainbow keys. I like to bring broken keys to see the obsession sometimes and instead, I end up getting tunneled into oblivion. They should make the keys to where the killer gets an alert to when you're opening the hatch while the game is still going if all the gens haven't been finished but only if there is more than one survivor. Also if they open it in the middle of a game let there be a timeframe that it stays open before it closes depends on how much time u want. maybe like 20 seconds or less and then it closes again and it goes like normal except nobody can open with a key again and they have to wait until everyone is dead except one person or two people leave through the exit gate and that person goes through the hatch when it opens. So if they are playing an SWF they open the hatch and their friends cant find it they can't escape and it would still allow for the 4 escape achievement there is just a timeframe for them to escape. 20 or fewer seconds and then the SWF would suffer from losing a teammate because they weren't able to find the hatch also as the killer if u find the hatch u can close it further preventing anyone from escaping. extra solution this should only be for SWF though (If the survivors open the hatch when all the gens are done then endgame collapse starts but the hatch doesn't have a time limit though but you can find and close it).
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Thats not at all what i said.
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read my comment above both of you and tell me what you think also being a killer requires skill and can be stressful but it's not all EZ. I think personally if your a good survivor your also a good killer bc you know how a survivor thinks and where they would go and do. Also, I hate when people do that just nerf survivor nerf killer obviously aldofer your very biased. Killer can be very easy but don't just say nerf all killer.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
If you take the Mori approach, keys would allow only one survivor out per key and not trigger EGC.
Also Green keys are broken.
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Fair enough. I’m kinda partial to Option 2 myself anyway. The reason I put #5 in there was that if no gens were completed at all, the the surv doesn’t really deserve to escape till he completes one. Buuuuut, you make a really good point against that. Well played!
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I used to not dodge keys; but after too many games of them using them so abusively I dunno I think I am done. I'm just leaving now.
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Add a 10 second animation for Dull Keys and only one Survivor can escape through the Hatch. Add a 5 second animation for Skeleton Keys and 2 Survivors can escape through the Hatch, the Hatch closes after 10 seconds of being opened. Easy fix solutions.
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I don't think most people are against the final survivor getting hatch. It's the fact that 2, 3, or 4 survivors can bypass the last gens/endgame collapse with a key. Adding skillchecks, interaction timer, closing after a single survivor escapes - anything would help give the killer counterplay to keys. Bypassing part of the game entirely should not be an option - that's why Moris needed a nerf as well.
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Keys screw over survivors too. It sucks to be left alone with the killer when two of your teammates suddenly escape using a key. I'm not sure what a perfect solution would be, but i would not miss them if they disappeared and were replaced with another item.
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Let's do to keys what they did to moris. Make the requirements so high that it's pointless to bring them.
Example. Keys can only be used when all 5 gens are done and the exit gates are open :P
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And why should that be a good thing? The moris were completly different. A key comes into play only if the match is already done, and one side actually won. An early mori often was the reason that happened, because it can derail the whole game by shifting the game balance drasticly. Still, for a lot of killers (like me) moris were needed to keep up with swf. Thats why i dont play killer anymore.
Also, with your idea, closing the hatch cannot cause an egc, meaning the game will still go one forever.
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I wouldn't mind making keys one-trick ponies so killers can still choose to bully keyholders, as they are wont to do, and separating the aura-reading into a different device, like... a compass. Sometimes, I want to use the key add-ons for a challenge or something, and being relentlessly tunneled and/or camped for an imagined threat is no fun. If I can bring in a different object, I can maybe have fewer [BAD WORD] matches with a pissy killer who's hatch-phobic.
Slight tangent, I'd love to never see another rift challenge requiring a key. Seriously tired of the bullying. Like, I'll dodge a survivor lobby if one of my teammates brings a key because I like to actually play, not just hang on a hook while the killer hits me over and over for someone else's perceived slight. If I bring a key into a match myself, I'm basically prepared to get destroyed. And the best part about these gross overreactions is they usually come from killers who are not and have probably never been at the rank of play where some SWF death squad could've pulled off the 2-gen escape on them. Lower-rank killers have just been taught to hate keys because they mean they might not get to kill everyone.
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These are good suggestions. I hope the developers are taking note!
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keys are fine get Gud. Love to see the data on how matches % a survivor, at least 1 opens the hatch with a key. Only 2 rare and ultra rare keys open hatches. Let’s talk about how hard it is to find the hatch unless you waste that otherwise useless bill perk or have a map which means you don’t have a key. The hatch only gives that 8m audible when it is open. Then show me the total hatch escape data even the last survivor hatch. Too much killer crying these days when the game still skews killer.
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You know you can just use a “hatch will spawn here” offering, which are very common?
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Increases the chance if map has killer shack or main building. Guarantees nothing. But then where in the main building or where is the killer shack or oh noes map doesn’t have a killer shack. I will admit the one time I found the hatch and keyed escaped the main building was used and I did look for it because the killer was camping a map quadrant that the last 2 generators was on.
how many escapes are via keyed hatch. 1% Confident it is well into the single digits percentage. The hatch is needed for a high mobility exit camper. Sometimes the exits spawn took dam close. That’s if you get that far or happen to be the last survivor.
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Keys are training wheels for baby survivors. They can't escape normally so they bring keys.
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I'm still waiting for the Devs to fix Green Keys. They've been broken since release.
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Here is my idea, what they need is a way for the killer to find and stop the hatch from being opened, anything resembling an instant escape like current keys is not good enough nor is it balanced.
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your obviously not a long time player, good players know pretty much all hatch spawn locations or at least the likely area's they spawn in.
The only time it is hard to find hatch ever is if your in rotten fields, a swamp map, or treatment facility. It is pretty easy in almost all other maps to find hatch you just have to check it's spawning locations.
Really the only conditions required to open hatch is to have a key and survive to meet it's spawning requirements, after that you should find it with ease since you can take your time avoiding the killer and searching the map since the killer has nothing to go off of to find you.
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I think they should only allow the key holder to escape, hatch closes after they have escaped, doesn't set off egc and never opens again, even when it's the last survivor, unless they have a key of course.
The escape should come at the cost of the team, it should be either a selfish action or a last ditch survival attempt on the key holders part.
I would not tunnel the key holder or use Franklin's if I knew only one would escape with the key.
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They should add fake closed hatches so multi-person key escapes become riskier. There would only be fake hatches while there's more than 1 person alive. The amount of hatches corresponds with how many gens are done and how many people are still alive.
2 gens left, 2 players alive: 1 fake hatch or a 50% chance of escaping
1 gen left, 3 players alive: 2 fake hatches or a 33% escape chance
0 gens left, 4 players alive: 3 fake hatches or a 25% chance of escaping
This, coupled with an opening animation between 3-6 seconds should make keys balanced. With this change you could also incorporate offerings that interact with the system such as a survivor purple/pink offering that lowers the fake hatch count by 1.
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Well, Keys on their own I guess aren't too much of an issue, it's the Hatch that's the issue (for me) because there's no way to defend against a Survivor hatch strategy as Killer, other than to play the way you normally would any other game (by downing, hooking, killing).
As you suggested, Hatch should take time to open, but I have some other ideas as well.
- Opening Hatch takes time, anywhere from 5-10 seconds depending on the key/add-ons used.
- Opening Hatch includes at least 1 difficult skill check that will alert the killer if failed, and have a 50% chance of breaking your Key.
- While opening Hatch, progress resets if the opening action is stopped in any way (i.e. Survivor lets it go, or failed skill check/key breaks)
- Only 1 Survivor can escape per key/opening. Each escape is followed by the Hatch slamming shut, making a loud noise.
- No more free escape for the last survivor: If 1 Survivor remains, the aura of the Hatch is revealed to the Killer
These suggestions I think would make for more fair gameplay when it comes to the Hatch. As it is now, it's a free escape, and a platform for taunting the Killer. Unless I was right on a Survivor's ass as they run to the Hatch, I have never had a single game where Survivors merely opened the Hatch and jumped in, they are ALWAYS there just waiting for me to show up so they can teabag and flashlight spam me before making the jump, and if I don't show up, they vault and slam doors like crazy to get my attention and then jump in. So these suggestions should almost nullify that behavior, and provide the Killer with an ability to defend the Hatch, making Survivors actually have to put in a little effort for their shortcut out of the trial.
Probably the most contentious suggestion I listed is the last one - revealing the aura of the Hatch to the Killer when 1 Survivor remains. I included it because as the last Survivor, the Hatch is already open and waiting for you, so the other 4 suggestions above don't apply, making it a risk-free free escape. I don't really like how that works because the Killer basically did their job killing 3 of you, so it's a win for them, yet the 4th survivor gets to bypass the usual escape method? No, not anymore. Revealing the Hatch aura to the Killer allows the Killer to either rush over there and defend it, or close it, but both choices come with some risk. Obviously, if the Killer is going to camp the Hatch in this case, then the Survivor is free to repair the remaining gens and attempt an escape the normal way. Will the Killer stand by and watch as gens get repaired? Alternately the Killer can just close the Hatch but that's risky as well, especially if the Survivor is near a gate already, possibly waiting for that to happen...
So, though it may seem OP to reveal the Hatch to the Killer, the Survivor is still given a good chance at getting out, perhaps even better than they do now because the Killer may just choose to immediately close it vs having to run around searching for it.
Thoughts?
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The only hatch location that was consistent was the school basement on Badham, which was a bug.
Knowing where the hatch could spawn doesn't help if it can spawn nearly anywhere on the map.
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the reason it's easy is simple, if it can be anywhere then you can be anywhere so the killer will have a hell of a time finding you so you will eventually find it and when you do it is pretty much impossible to stop you unless the killer can see you and quickly down you before you make it to the hatch.
That is why it doesn't matter if it takes time to find the hatch, as long as your not running around like a chicken without a head and your paying attention to where the killer generally is you will escape with a key.
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Lots of people saying "Make opening the hatch take time" but I have a variation of that idea:
The survivor uses the key instantly, but then a 30 second timer activates, as well as a map-wide sound to let every player know the hatch is getting opened. Maybe the killer can see the exact time remaining. This fixes several issues with the key, such as:
• Being abandoned with no warning as a survivor (often I find the killer doesn't close the hatch, so it closes on its own without finishing the gens)
• Survivors who want to waste the killer's time by standing there waiting
• the amount a key escape depends on RNG would be decreased
• This nerfed key might make killers fear it less
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