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I am tired of hearing “nerf DS”
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In a solo game, yes, that is often what has to happen. You can't coordinate hex cleanses, so the only options are to cleanse the totems you come across or to ignore the hex and just fight through it. It's not impossible to sync up with your team, but it requires luck for the others to have the same idea in mind. It's not a question of being a potato. It's pretty much just impossible to synchronize totem cleanses, which puts solo at a disadvantage with old Undying.
What will be meta on killers like Blight after this change, then? Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer should still be quite good on highly mobile killers to the point where I don't see another combo dethroning it. Undying/Devour is going to be filthy on killers that can defend totems too. Survivors only get cursed right as the fourth survivor is getting downed. That means they need to cleanse both hexes before one more person gets downed and unhooked, which is not easy unless they've already located both totems. That's going to lead to a lot of early moris. Even one Mori should be enough to win the game even if it gets cleansed right after.
Pop is absolutely not trash. Games with many hooks aren't necessarily games that the killer is dominating. It can also allow for comebacks in three-gen situations, even if it's still a 3v1 or 4v1. The opposite of what you said is actually true (i.e. if the killer is getting stomped Pop will not save them), but if they're able to get hooks (which you should in well-balanced matches) it should be very strong, especially on mobile killers like Freddy that can take good advantage of information from BBQ or Thrilling. If I always had to play a random killer, I could only choose one perk every match, and BP weren't a factor, I I would run Pop. The time wasting potential out of one perk slot is just insanely high.
Like I said, you can ignore Ruin, but that doesn't mean it's having no effect. It only has no effect if the killer is not defending gens.
CI is absolutely good for Trapper and Hag. If a survivor runs right into you early, which is often not the effect of CI, that's just fine for Hag and Trapper. They can just trap offensively if they choose to pursue that survivor, and meanwhile the other three survivors generally haven't been able to jump right on gens and are forced to waste time running around the map. Usually it lets you get a few traps down around the gens closest to you before survivors show up too, but limiting early gen progress at a time where gens usually fly is a good enough benefit.
Surge is commonly recommended on M1 killers by "no good" killers like Otz, and for good reason. You pair it with Pop, Surge the gens near you, and Pop gens being worked on far away from you. It also gives decent information about which gens near you are being worked on, which can also help direct your Pop if survivors are really trying to force a gen out. Oppression is good for similar reasons; you often get some tracking and some instant regression out of the skill check, which can help you land a useful Pop, and otherwise it can waste good amounts of time on other gens.
I've done the math before, and if I recall correctly running Thanatophobia and averaging two stacks throughout the match saves about 45 seconds of gen repair time, not counting any additional regression from the killer making it to gens before survivors can finish them. That's okay; like landing 2 1/4 pops. For killers like Legion and Plague, though, it can help hedge your bets a bit. If the survivors choose to heal against you, that's excellent for you because it wastes tons of their time and makes them more vulnerable to your power. If not, though, they could lose more like 60-70 seconds on gens over the course of the match, which is a very nice effect.
Care to address why you think queue times are related to balance?
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Preferentially going for survivors that were not just hooked is not the same thing as 12-hooking. That just means that instead of hooking survivors like A, A, A, B, B, B, C, C, C, D, (D, D) you might need to do something like this: A, B, A, B, A, B, C, D, (C, D, C, D). You really don't need to tunnel to win and there is absolutely no need to do A, B, C, D, A, B, C, D, A, B, C, D to avoid DS.
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Undying + Ruin Counterplay:
1. Stick to gens. If the killer pressures you oh well, hope that your teammates are also doing gens. That's why the Gabe is 1v4 and more 1v1
2. Cleanse totems. I guess this is too much of the right thing to do considering that totems are a OPTIONAL objective and you weren't forced to cleanse every single totem.
DS + UB Counterplay:
Well the killer slugged you to avoid DS, but your countering slugging with UB. Now that you've countered slugging, DS is still active and the killer is coming for you, well let me hop in a locker to nullify the killer's ability to counter DS.
My point is that Undying and Ruin had counterplay and was only broken when Frederick ran slow down add-ons, while DS and UB has no counterplay that doesn't punish killers for playing fair
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Then what is it supposed to be? Because right now its sixty seconds of get away free for doing nothing but playing badly and getting hooked.
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So legitimate (if unfun) playstyles deserve to be countered simply because they are sometimes employed? And that killers should just leave a hook and allow the save?
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You don´t HAVE to coordinate. You take Detectives as solo and cleanse the totems the others ignore. Since you see them all.
Tinkerer is still good on Blight. This won´t change. Combine it with Trail of Torment and Dark Devotion for max confusion.
3 gen with 4 survivors alive WILL lead to them escaping. Even with PoP. Killer can´t dedicate to a chase even a short one, because the second he does try to get that down, the other 3 survivors will be sitting on the same gen. But lets say, the killer insta downs, hooks and goes to that gen the 3 survivors were working on. He still has to hurry, because 3 survivors complete a gen in 30 seconds. So the 25% regression is kinda meh.
Corrupt: you sacrifice endgame traps (which you need) to get some early chases (which you don´t need). Bad trade.
Queue times represent balance very easily. People like to win. So unless a new killer is released or a event requires people to play a certain role, people WILL play the more powerful role. Instant survivor queues? Killer OP. Instant killer queues? Survivor OP.
Of course, there is a additional point of the time of the day. Less people play during office hours. So those queue times vary drastically from prime time queue times. When everyone has time to play.
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I think balancing things like DS falls into the same pit as balance in general. People who have a firm understanding of this game and things that would probably be beneficial to the health of it no longer bother. Why voice your concerns, why apply your logic, why attempt to lay out your reasoning for things when people who are so clueless try to argue against it? The developers themselves not listening to their community is one thing, but when a large collective of incredibly smart, talented and just plain knowledge streamers are constantly explaining what is wrong and suggesting how to fix it, and you also ignore them; why bother? Even THEY have stopped wasting their time because they've accepted that, for years, they've never been heard, either. Who cares about anyone but new players?
That's pretty my reasoning for not wasting my time trying to explain to people in threads like this the problems with DS, because you read the responses and you see people say idiotic things like "It's fine it only punishes you if the killer tunnel" make my IQ drop.
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Of course you don't - My point has consistently been that coordinating just allows you to waste substantially less time dealing with Undying. One person can just throw on Detective's and cleanse all the totems if the killer's occupied, but they're taking a ton of time to do it. SWF save that time by coordinating, hence why Undying was stronger against solos.
Yes, Tinkerer is great on Blight. The meta will almost certainly still be Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer. It's just not going to be as strong as it was before.
Very likely, but not necessarily. If most players are on death hook and the pallets are cleared out around the remaining gens, you at least have a chance. Quick down, kill one, pop the gen and pressure multiple survivors before they can finish... The point is that pop generally gets stronger as the game goes on; usually survivors do a lot of damage on gens early and then have to trickle the last few over the finish line. Pop is perfect for preventing them from making progress in that situation, and can certainly let you win games you have no business winning. Just think of the time saved with each pop and try to think of other perks that save that much time over the course of the match. Spoiler: there aren't many.
How is corrupt sacrificing endgame traps? You don't run out of traps. Regardless, the early game is by far the most important part of the game because it's generally the only time that four survivors are repairing at once. Usually Trapper and Hag are forced to start from behind because they can apply no pressure in the early game. CI solves that problem and keeps gens up while they do the setup necessary to apply pressure.
That is grossly oversimplifying things. Some people want to win more than anything else, while some people want to play with their friends more than anything else. You rightly mention time of day too; survivor queues are mostly terrible in the evenings because thats when SWFs are all free to queue up together. The fact that the queues actually do get worse for survivors in the evenings supports the fact that some people only want to play with their friends. I'm sure having to deal with 4v1 post-game chat toxicity disproportionately discourages killers. So should console and low-end PC framerate, which is extra poor on the killer side. Then there's the added stress and responsibility of the killer side, which isn't for everyone.
Think about it - If balance were all that mattered, very few people would play solo queue survivor and they would either join SWFs or play killer instead. As a result, three-man SWF would never be able to find matches because there'd be no solos to fill their lobbies, and solos would therefore queue very quickly. That's not happening, though, so clearly there's more at play than just balance. Queue times also would have been way, way worse for survivors a few years ago when survivors were even stronger, but that certainly wasn't my experience. Queues got worse for me when crossplay dropped, which makes me think that console performance and potentially console also being a more social gaming platform are both factors.
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The only change it should be made is that should activate every time you're picked up right after being freed from the hook, instead of once per match.
It is one of the few perks that actually discourages tunnelers. With the silly disconnect penalty in place, it should actually be made better.
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its really not...
they gave us bloodlust during that, along with window blocking, buffed killer vaulting speed, and fixed a few infinites.
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But survivors don't have to cleanse all totems. Ruin is so weak, you could ignore it and still finish all gens in 4 minutes. Killer can't chase 4 survivors at the same time. 2 or 3 will always have the possibility to hug gens.
Undying is gone. With the update you won't see it anymore. It's not going to be meta. Now it's just Haunted Grounds without the exposed status. Was Haunted Grounds Ruin meta? No? Exactly!
I play solo queue all the time. Starting Saturday evening, the queues went back up with waiting times of 5+ minutes. This won't improve once the patch drops.
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They gave us bloodlust as a bandaid and then nerfed it.
I suspect the bloodlust free weekend experiment didn't go as expected. Or they would have removed it already.
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