NOED is so Infuriating
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No, because every defense of that perk is a logical fallacy.
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Iron will has many defenses which are not logical fallacies. For example, it only works while crouched. It’s trade off is mobility. Not a logically flawed argument. NOED defense arguments are logically flawed.
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Every attack of that perk is a logical fallacy.
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logical fallacy argument again. It’s the only hex which requires 100 seconds of cleansing time plus searching time which is easily 2-3 minutes.
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Demonstrating the inability of a garbage NOED killer to understand logic.
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Pretty simple stuff.
It's a hex perk, it can be removed by survivors before it even activates, or as soon as it activates if you want to just do the totem that lights up. As a hex perk, it should be strong enough to make survivors want to remove it. I don't use it, because I don't base my build around losing every gen, but I don't begrudge players who do when I am playing survivor, I just plan around it. Much like Devour Hope, it is a hex that only works on teams that ignore the possibility until it's too late. There are 4 Survivors and 5 totems. That's 18 seconds for each one, 36 for whoever clears two. Not much of a time investment to stop 1/4th of a Killer's loadout from ever activating.
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Almost every attack on this perk hinges on some variation of the tired phrase "NOED rewards bad killers".
There's no evidence whatsoever to support this except for the one singular claim that 5 gens being completed indicates some sort of failure on the part of the killer.
This is fallacious as it has nothing to do with the killer's objective. Gen pressure is designed to stall the game, nothing more.
The killer's objective is to kill four people, however manner he can do that.
I could use a perk build that entirely revolved my strategy around waiting for you to finish the five generators and then taking advantage of the endgame collapse. This would require the end game collapse to take place as part of my strategy, which means it has nothing to do with me winning or losing some other manufactured concept of what you think killer winning is. By its very nature it would be a requirement of my plan, so no, it would have nothing to do with me being a bad killer.
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Perhaps I am biased as a killer player, but it does seem like NOED is an issue only non-adapting survivors complain about. Yes, it's frustrating to get hit by it, but there are plenty of counters. Totem placements are pretty generic and repetitive, and if they're an issue, bring one of the totem perks and you can instantly counter every single hex perk in the game, including Ruin/Undying which is pretty common.
Just switch out one of your four meta perks for a totem one, and you'll laugh at how killers with any sort of hex perk don't stand a chance.
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I don't think the 'can be removed before it activates' is really a good defense. It is possible, yes, but I think it's pretty damn rare that all totems are gone before all generators are fixed.
That said, as mentioned, there's two perks designed to counter it by making totems easy to find. And one way to prepare for NOED is to make a mental note of totem locations so that when the doors fire up and NOED is revealed, you can revisit totems you found to see if one lit up.
The perk is a serious gamble. Sometimes it throws a game into disarray and nets 3 kills, sometimes it gets found and cleansed within 10 seconds of the last generator being done and ends up doing nothing. That kind of massive swing can be considered bad for gameplay though, and I wouldn't be opposed to reconsidering how NOED works.
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It is the only hex perk which has a minimum time trade off of between 2-5 minutes without the killer being required to have a skill in game like Devour Hope. The killer does nothing, and nets a potential 2-5 minutes, or 2 kills. No skill or effort required. It is not legitimate to say that survivors should waste 2-5 minutes every game to eliminate one hex.
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You don’t get 4 man kills with NOED unless the survivors are absolutely horrible, or make grossly negligent errors. NOED is a game patch left in by the devs to reward sub-par killers against mid-tier survivors.
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That last paragraph is very true but it can also apply to lots of things like corrupt purge on plague, popping tier 3 with myers, oni using his demon power, all 3 cause a limited time power spike in the same way that NOED does.
It really depends on what you enjoy i like to run NOED, for the simple fact of i generally hate running regression perks, i do however run corrupt intervention on almost everyone because it forces people into my area. Ruin is only really worth it on a few killers, same goes for pop to a lesser extent, and most of the other ones are garbage. I use gens for tracking and as bait so i tend to go to endgame alot, because defending them is boring and on some maps useless.
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Your defense of iron will is logically flawed and its penalty can be negated with urban evasion
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None of this refutes what I said. You are still clinging to the myth that the perk is for bad killers, and you have yet to prove why that is so except to cling to the additional myth that generator completion has anything to do with killer skill.
Post edited by EvanSnowWolf on1 -
Ye cause closing the hatch without changing the open door time and with adding the end game situation is so balanced =).
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You like pulling random numbers out of your backside.
It doesn't take nearly that long. Especially if the Survivor team actually works like a team, which, contrary to popular belief doesn't require swf, just people actually thinking about the team as a whole. (For example, cleaning a totem when they see it so it doesn't turn into something that will punish the team later)
As far as the argument that it requires no real action on the killer side to activate? Quite a few perks on both sides have that distinction. Unbreakable, for example requires no particular skill to activate, you just have to lose a chase and be left on the ground to hold a single button down until it is ready. Much like NOED, it relies on the inaction of the other player to be effective. Decisive Strike and Kindred require nothing more than losing a chase and being hooked. In the case of kindred the Survivor carrying it doesn't need to do anything at all, as they don't even have to be the one hooked. So if we are going to start removing perks based on whether or not it takes a particular "skill" to activate, it's going to be a much longer conversation, and we'll likely end up with about 4 perks on each side when it's all done.
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I read that twice and didn't get it.
Are you upset at the end game timer? That's a whole different conversation. This is a 4v1 game, as such any 1v1 situation will heavily favor the killer.
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It isn’t logical fallacy, it’s sarcasm designed to point out how stupid the original argument was.
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I'm just thinking of my friend, lol, he loves hunting down totems while I work on gens
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In that case the killer earned his NOED by keeping his totems up.
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???
Use of another perk proves logical fallacy?
I don’t think you understand how this works.
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The killers that use it can’t win consistently without it. Case closed.
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100 seconds of cleansing time. That’s 1 minute and 40 seconds. Then you have searching time. Even if it only takes 20 seconds to find each totem, you are already at 280 seconds of time. That is 3 minutes 40 seconds. Let’s say searching is reduced to 10 seconds per totem which is idiotic, but that is 10 seconds searching plus 20 seconds cleansing, 150 seconds total which is 2.5 minutes. That is ideal totem cleansing scenario for survivors, and gens only take 80 seconds. This means that NORD totem cleansing is roughly equal to doing two gens.
Its total BS.
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No. It’s logical fallacy based around a lack of skill.
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I've seen it on Rank 1 Killers all the time. SpookNJukes uses it for the lulz.
Case not closed, and it doesn't become so because you say so. ANOTHER LOGICAL FALLACY.
I feel like you saw the phrase "logical fallacy" in a Youtube video like one time, and are now trying to use it as often as you can interject it.
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Rank 1 killers can do gimmick builds to change things up, but you don’t stay at rank 1 with a NOED build because it’s for bad killers.
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So hiding in a locker when there is 2 survivors left then when you get downed after opening a gate to 80/90% only to hop of the hook with deliverance and then using sprint burst and DS to get to the gate anyway is fair? Because that’s what y’all are doing to us.
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Citation needed. There is no proof NOED is bad for Killers. Numerous rank 1 Killers can and do run NOED - and stay there.
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I don’t use any of those meta perks.
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No I never said you did all I mean to say is though noed can feel unfair after playing a really good game. Imagine playing flawlessly all match long finally finding that one camper after closing the hatch at one of the exit gates and then getting robbed of the 4k like this. What makes it worse is that those particular survivors must insist on t-bagging you at the exits and spamming ‘ez’ in the endgame chat. I personally run noed but that’s more as a last resort and I couldn’t give a ######### whether it gets destroyed or not.
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You tried to defend iron will by saying it had a trade off i proved that that fact can be overridden by adding another perk, there by putting a flaw in your logic.
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“Citation needed”
You run NOED as part of your build and maintain a consistent rank 1 and then come back and talk to me. It only works on mid-tier.
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That is not how logic works. Perhaps avail yourself to a few logic groups and learn how logic functions.
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No. But you can hook trade, and bait. In high skill survivor play, taking hooks for your teammates is vital to winning.
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Enlighten me to how logic works then, please feel free.
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My citation is the hours and hours of footage of SpookNJukes doing exactly what I just said. You want a link to his channel? I'm sure you can find it on your own.
Many red rank killers don't run it because they find it boring, not cause it sucks.
One more time for you people in the cheap seats: NOED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR SKILL AS A KILLER.
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Why do you assume there to only be 1 survivor cleaning all the totems? Sure, if a single player went around and did them it would take about as long as 2 gens. Of course in that scenario his 3 teammates would be doing those gens, so as a team, the trade-off is worth it. That's how teams work.
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Generally speaking when somebody levels an accusation it is up to them to provide the burden of proof to support said accusation. You are about as credible as a wingnut spreading some convoluted conspiracy theory and then when confronted with disbelievers tell them to “Do YoUr ReAsEaRcH”.
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A hex perk that grants killers with 3++ minutes of free time does not equal skill and planning.
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Has everything to do with your skill. Sooner you realize it, sooner you can get better.
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Do you do math?
It doesn’t matter how many survivors work on totems, the time it takes is a constant.
whether one survivor does it one totem at a time, or four survivors all cleanse a totem simultaneously, the same amount of time has been cost.
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When you use NOED consistently against rank 1 survivors to get regular 4k’s, then come back and prove me wrong.
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Not really. If they are doing things at the same time, less time is cost. But really this just showed that the real issue is you don't feel anything should exist to draw you away from rushing gens, even for a few seconds. I would point out that you can always just wait and cleanse the single lit totem after the gens are done as well, but I'm sure you can't imagine the gall of being asked to look for and work a single totem when there is a gate to 99
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That is a statement that has nothing to do with how logic works.
There is no perk that does what that statement describes.
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Not an argument.
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Geez you guys have argued more than anything in this post. I was only stating that NOED probably shouldn’t be activated if the match is already down to 1v1
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Lol. It isn’t up to me to prove you wrong. Its up to you to prove yourself right.
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Such is the curse of NOED. If you say it 3 times all the people who hate it more than anything come out. Once more and you get all the people sick of hexes getting nerfed.
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I disagree.
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