Stup cuddling killers - Groaning storehouse

Wolf74

Stealth doesn't even need perks.
Just be aware about your surounding.
I play Bill with SC, SB, Bond and STAKE OUT and stealth all the time.

DemonDaddy

CoolAKn said:

@DemonDaddy said:
Not gonna claim I win every game, but when I do win it is because of stealth every time. The only way aura reading kills stealth is if it is a constant ability with no with no way to break the visual. The only way that happens is when the survivors play right into a build and refuse to adapt.

Just curious, what build to you typically stealth with? I am currently running Dwight, and the only "stealth" perk I have access to is Spine Chill. I am slowly trying to get all of the teachable perks. Right now, only Bond is unlocked.

I run Technician , self-care, sabotage and leader. I don't have many of the meta perks, but technician has allowed me to go unnoticed more times than I can count

CoolAKn

@DemonDaddy said:
I run Technician , self-care, sabotage and leader. I don't have many of the meta perks, but technician has allowed me to go unnoticed more times than I can count

Technician is one I would like to eventually get in my build, for the same reason.

powerbats

@The_Crusader said:

@Eveline said:
So now UE is not toxic? Color me surprised.

I think it's great. It gives survivors another way to avoid a killer, and allows people to play stealthy. Its far better than everyone running to the nearest loop.

DS is toxic because it undoes the killers hard work. It robs the killer of their reward for their effort - that being a hook.

Urban evasion does not. It's not a get out of jail free card, it still requires skill and knowledge of where and how to hide.

I've had both sides say using UE is toxic post game but mostly killers that don't like someone being stealthy.

As far s my stealth build goes there's a couple depending on character (don't have all perks but also what other people are playing.).

I almost always have UE (I feel absolutely naked without it), SC, Premonition ( really great for stealth play), then I run either Deliverance (buggy asf still), Stakeout, (funny to chase killer for tokens, but also dangerous), SB ( one toon has this still since no other good perks I want).

I've been screwing around with some other perks but they just don't fit my stealthy playstyle much and Balanced landing is map situational, DH and AD are more for looping etc.

projecteulogy

@The_Crusader said:

@projecteulogy said:

@Justicar said:

@projecteulogy said:
Survivors have two choices. "Immersed" Stealth or "Brain dead" looping. Currently, playing Stealth(how i like to) yields next to no BP/Pip. Looping grants survivors tons of Bloodpoints. There's no denying it. There's more than 1000 videos on Twitch and Youtube proving this.

They're removing even more pallets on the PTB and "balancing" it with making hooks spawn ONLY outside of 24m of each other unless Offerings are used. Point is, killers ######### about Genrushing and Looping.. the only 2 tools a survivor has to "win" the game. Meanwhile, killers resort to slugging to prevent any sort of hatch escape and/or tunnel and camp survivors they find a "threat".

What exactly do you want survivors to do? Just stand there and let you down them thus creating a killer's version of a M1 Simulator? lol Until the developer actually gives a ######### about Looping, you're stuck with it.

I personally prefer playing stealthy, partly because I'm bad at looping, but mostly because I prefer that form of gameplay. Unfortunately, this game greatly promotes looping over stealth, so it feels like self-gimping. I'd really like to see do a pure gameplay update that expands survivor objectives and gameplay options instead of just adding another killer/survivor combo.

See this is exactly what i'm wanting. Instead the killer AND survivor community calls people "bad" because they can't/don't loop. Its a trashy tactic that i can't stand when I play killer. So why adopt it and join the crowd? Instead, i'd like to see the developer at least add a Stealth Category(Evader is not Stealth. End of story lol) and a similar one for killers.

Looping needs to be dissolved and camping/slugging needs to be deterred in some way

This is what I've always thought. I like Urban evasion as a survivor AND as a killer. I think it's good when survivors play stealth, it leads to some epic moments when you're behind a tree and the killer walks right past without noticing you and you're heart is beating.

Or when a survivor breaks line of sight and somehow disappears behind a wall with a juke, that impresses me.

Running around a loop in comparison takes minimal skill and sadly is one of the most effective things a survivor can do.

I said on the survey that they need to move away from looping and move towards helping survivors break line of sight or hide.

I said almost the exact same thing! More than just lockers to hide in.. Inside and Under cars on Haddon. Dumpsters, etc. OH BOY MORE ORANGE LOCKERS.. meh

@DemonDaddy said:
Sorry survivors but aura perks don't work how you think. Every perk has conditions that must be met before activating, thus your argument against stealth only applies when you create that condition. Lets not pretend killer have omnipotent vision from the start, we have to work hard to earn a few seconds of it.

What are you even talking about? You do realize a lot of us play both sides of the field right? Rancor, you don't have to do anything but let survivors do gens. BBQ, you hook someone. So how is you hooking another survivor my fault? Yeah totally hard work there fam. But this discussion isn't about aura reading perks..But since you wanna go there.

BBQ and Chili,Bitter Murmur, Territorial Imperative(even tho it sucks), Deerstalker, Nurses Calling, Rancor, Blood Warden... then you have addons like Shape's Scratched Mirror and Wraith's All Seeing Spirit... Most of these don't require the Killer to do anything but lack map presence. But its not how we think they work lol ok.

DemonDaddy

projecteulogy said:

@The_Crusader said:

@projecteulogy said:

@Justicar said:

@projecteulogy said:
Survivors have two choices. "Immersed" Stealth or "Brain dead" looping. Currently, playing Stealth(how i like to) yields next to no BP/Pip. Looping grants survivors tons of Bloodpoints. There's no denying it. There's more than 1000 videos on Twitch and Youtube proving this.

They're removing even more pallets on the PTB and "balancing" it with making hooks spawn ONLY outside of 24m of each other unless Offerings are used. Point is, killers ######### about Genrushing and Looping.. the only 2 tools a survivor has to "win" the game. Meanwhile, killers resort to slugging to prevent any sort of hatch escape and/or tunnel and camp survivors they find a "threat".

What exactly do you want survivors to do? Just stand there and let you down them thus creating a killer's version of a M1 Simulator? lol Until the developer actually gives a ######### about Looping, you're stuck with it.

I personally prefer playing stealthy, partly because I'm bad at looping, but mostly because I prefer that form of gameplay. Unfortunately, this game greatly promotes looping over stealth, so it feels like self-gimping. I'd really like to see do a pure gameplay update that expands survivor objectives and gameplay options instead of just adding another killer/survivor combo.

See this is exactly what i'm wanting. Instead the killer AND survivor community calls people "bad" because they can't/don't loop. Its a trashy tactic that i can't stand when I play killer. So why adopt it and join the crowd? Instead, i'd like to see the developer at least add a Stealth Category(Evader is not Stealth. End of story lol) and a similar one for killers.

Looping needs to be dissolved and camping/slugging needs to be deterred in some way

This is what I've always thought. I like Urban evasion as a survivor AND as a killer. I think it's good when survivors play stealth, it leads to some epic moments when you're behind a tree and the killer walks right past without noticing you and you're heart is beating.

Or when a survivor breaks line of sight and somehow disappears behind a wall with a juke, that impresses me.

Running around a loop in comparison takes minimal skill and sadly is one of the most effective things a survivor can do.

I said on the survey that they need to move away from looping and move towards helping survivors break line of sight or hide.

I said almost the exact same thing! More than just lockers to hide in.. Inside and Under cars on Haddon. Dumpsters, etc. OH BOY MORE ORANGE LOCKERS.. meh

@DemonDaddy said:
Sorry survivors but aura perks don't work how you think. Every perk has conditions that must be met before activating, thus your argument against stealth only applies when you create that condition. Lets not pretend killer have omnipotent vision from the start, we have to work hard to earn a few seconds of it.

What are you even talking about? You do realize a lot of us play both sides of the field right? Rancor, you don't have to do anything but let survivors do gens. BBQ, you hook someone. So how is you hooking another survivor my fault? Yeah totally hard work there fam. But this discussion isn't about aura reading perks..But since you wanna go there.

BBQ and Chili,Bitter Murmur, Territorial Imperative(even tho it sucks), Deerstalker, Nurses Calling, Rancor, Blood Warden... then you have addons like Shape's Scratched Mirror and Wraith's All Seeing Spirit... Most of these don't require the Killer to do anything but lack map presence. But its not how we think they work lol ok.

Sorry for going off topic, I was responding to a statement above and the quote didn't go through. I have seen a lot  of complaints about how stealth isn't possible due to aura and now looping is more difficult. I won't argue that some perk/addons don't require the killer to act, but all do have conditions or drawbacks. Also never said its your fault a teammate gets hooked, your only obligation is to work around their shortcomings. 

Milkymalk

@projecteulogy said:

BBQ and Chili,Bitter Murmur, Territorial Imperative(even tho it sucks), Deerstalker, Nurses Calling, Rancor, Blood Warden... then you have addons like Shape's Scratched Mirror and Wraith's All Seeing Spirit... Most of these don't require the Killer to do anything but lack map presence. But its not how we think they work lol ok.

Rancor: You don't have to do anything except fall behind, is that what you mean? I can see survivors' auras for a grand total of five times during the game, and every single time it means I am closer to losing.

BBQ&Chili shows you auras that are FAR away. It basically only gives you a hint in which direction you should walk if you at least want to meaningfully allow the unhook for free. I play BBQ for the bonus points and barely ever for the aura.

Bitter Murmur activates when a gen pops and shows me that there was somebody at that gen. Woohoo. Unless it was right next to you this perk is useless.

Deerstalker: Ehm... Deerstalker is in no way a counter to stealth play. I'll let you figure out why.

Back to topic: The problem is that looping is a survivor's best choice. If the killer follows, you get a sh*ton of points and waste his time so the other survivors can do gens. If he doesn't, you get out of jail free and can go back to doing whatever he caught you doing. Still points for winning the chase.
The devs should not make looping harder, but give survivors a reason to not loop at all. For example, don't reward them for long chases but penalize them like killers get penalized for camping soon. Give them a pool of blood points and have them lose points during chases. Whatever is left, they get if they survive. In fact, I like this idea so much that I'm going to post it in suggestions right now.

Wolf74

@Milkymalk said:

@projecteulogy said:

BBQ and Chili,Bitter Murmur, Territorial Imperative(even tho it sucks), Deerstalker, Nurses Calling, Rancor, Blood Warden... then you have addons like Shape's Scratched Mirror and Wraith's All Seeing Spirit... Most of these don't require the Killer to do anything but lack map presence. But its not how we think they work lol ok.

Rancor: You don't have to do anything except fall behind, is that what you mean? I can see survivors' auras for a grand total of five times during the game, and every single time it means I am closer to losing.

BBQ&Chili shows you auras that are FAR away. It basically only gives you a hint in which direction you should walk if you at least want to meaningfully allow the unhook for free. I play BBQ for the bonus points and barely ever for the aura.

Bitter Murmur activates when a gen pops and shows me that there was somebody at that gen. Woohoo. Unless it was right next to you this perk is useless.

Deerstalker: Ehm... Deerstalker is in no way a counter to stealth play. I'll let you figure out why.

Back to topic: The problem is that looping is a survivor's best choice. If the killer follows, you get a sh*ton of points and waste his time so the other survivors can do gens. If he doesn't, you get out of jail free and can go back to doing whatever he caught you doing. Still points for winning the chase.
The devs should not make looping harder, but give survivors a reason to not loop at all. For example, don't reward them for long chases but penalize them like killers get penalized for camping soon. Give them a pool of blood points and have them lose points during chases. Whatever is left, they get if they survive. In fact, I like this idea so much that I'm going to post it in suggestions right now.

First of, great post.

Second, the thing with the chase pool to punish long chases was already considered by the Devs for the emblems, but they decided to save the points every 15 sec so that no one can lose to many point after one long chase.
In fact, looping and smashing the killer with pallets is the most rewarding way of playing the game.
Maybe they should consider lowering the pallet stun reward to disencourage it,

powerbats

@Milkymalk said:

Rancor: You don't have to do anything except fall behind, is that what you mean? I can see survivors' auras for a grand total of five times during the game, and every single time it means I am closer to losing.

BBQ&Chili shows you auras that are FAR away. It basically only gives you a hint in which direction you should walk if you at least want to meaningfully allow the unhook for free. I play BBQ for the bonus points and barely ever for the aura.

Bitter Murmur activates when a gen pops and shows me that there was somebody at that gen. Woohoo. Unless it was right next to you this perk is useless.

Deerstalker: Ehm... Deerstalker is in no way a counter to stealth play. I'll let you figure out why.

Back to topic: The problem is that looping is a survivor's best choice. If the killer follows, you get a sh*ton of points and waste his time so the other survivors can do gens. If he doesn't, you get out of jail free and can go back to doing whatever he caught you doing. Still points for winning the chase.
The devs should not make looping harder, but give survivors a reason to not loop at all. For example, don't reward them for long chases but penalize them like killers get penalized for camping soon. Give them a pool of blood points and have them lose points during chases. Whatever is left, they get if they survive. In fact, I like this idea so much that I'm going to post it in suggestions right now.

You're joking right because I see complaints and excuses where actual opportunities are.

Rancor - No it shows you right where people are at for 3 seconds when that gen is done and it's up to you to take advantage of that huge amount of vision. Oh and when the last gen is powered you get to see the auras of every survivor for 3 seconds and the Obsession is exposed and can be Mori'd.

BBQ&Chili - Far away as in over 24 meters far, that's actually not that far and you can easily cover that distance in a few seconds. If you're not using the aura then you're wasting the perk because while it shows where they were it's still a good indicator of where to look. Don't see anyone or only 1 well chances are ones close so go look and quit complaining.

Bitter Murmur - You get to see the auras of all survivors within 16 meters of that gen for 5 seconds. So that means you can clearly see which way they're going, if someone is going for a hook save etc. The last gen is popped all survivors auras are shown to you for 10 seconds. Meaning those going for unhooks, gates etc are all shown for 10 seconds.

Deerstalker isn't a anti stealth perk, they ere probably thinking of something different unless in the context of baiting out a stealthy player coming to heal a survivor that moved.

The looping idea isn't going to do anything but punish those that don't care and want to depip anyways. The solution to looping is to add in more LOS blockers which on Autohaven is making Huntresses mad. That and add more ways to break los with stealthy/evade choices.

That last part is going to require that a lot of killer tracking perks go away if loopings going to disappear. BBQ is fine, but thing like Whispers, Spies, Predator, Stridor (last tier only would be 0% for non wounded survivors),

Milkymalk

The looping idea isn't going to do anything but punish those that don't care and want to depip anyways.

I'm not talking about pip points. I'm talking about blood points.

Stridor is a great perk because it is really atmospheric and doesn't point an arrow towards the survivor. Spies is possible to counter by paying attention to crows and sneaking, something I am seeking to encourage anyway, and Whispers only shows you that someone is near - something you know anyway if you come across a started generator, you still have to find them. Predator would have to be changed slightly, but it is also only useful if the survivor is running. And I can't count the times I laid false tracks with scratch marks, went into a locker and waited for the killer to leave.

There are so many "dead" perks that should be revived by encouraging different playstyles. Stridor is one of them.

yeet

@powerbats said:

@Milkymalk said:

Rancor: You don't have to do anything except fall behind, is that what you mean? I can see survivors' auras for a grand total of five times during the game, and every single time it means I am closer to losing.

BBQ&Chili shows you auras that are FAR away. It basically only gives you a hint in which direction you should walk if you at least want to meaningfully allow the unhook for free. I play BBQ for the bonus points and barely ever for the aura.

Bitter Murmur activates when a gen pops and shows me that there was somebody at that gen. Woohoo. Unless it was right next to you this perk is useless.

Deerstalker: Ehm... Deerstalker is in no way a counter to stealth play. I'll let you figure out why.

Back to topic: The problem is that looping is a survivor's best choice. If the killer follows, you get a sh*ton of points and waste his time so the other survivors can do gens. If he doesn't, you get out of jail free and can go back to doing whatever he caught you doing. Still points for winning the chase.
The devs should not make looping harder, but give survivors a reason to not loop at all. For example, don't reward them for long chases but penalize them like killers get penalized for camping soon. Give them a pool of blood points and have them lose points during chases. Whatever is left, they get if they survive. In fact, I like this idea so much that I'm going to post it in suggestions right now.

You're joking right because I see complaints and excuses where actual opportunities are.

Rancor - No it shows you right where people are at for 3 seconds when that gen is done and it's up to you to take advantage of that huge amount of vision. Oh and when the last gen is powered you get to see the auras of every survivor for 3 seconds and the Obsession is exposed and can be Mori'd.

BBQ&Chili - Far away as in over 24 meters far, that's actually not that far and you can easily cover that distance in a few seconds. If you're not using the aura then you're wasting the perk because while it shows where they were it's still a good indicator of where to look. Don't see anyone or only 1 well chances are ones close so go look and quit complaining.

Bitter Murmur - You get to see the auras of all survivors within 16 meters of that gen for 5 seconds. So that means you can clearly see which way they're going, if someone is going for a hook save etc. The last gen is popped all survivors auras are shown to you for 10 seconds. Meaning those going for unhooks, gates etc are all shown for 10 seconds.

Deerstalker isn't a anti stealth perk, they ere probably thinking of something different unless in the context of baiting out a stealthy player coming to heal a survivor that moved.

The looping idea isn't going to do anything but punish those that don't care and want to depip anyways. The solution to looping is to add in more LOS blockers which on Autohaven is making Huntresses mad. That and add more ways to break los with stealthy/evade choices.

That last part is going to require that a lot of killer tracking perks go away if loopings going to disappear. BBQ is fine, but thing like Whispers, Spies, Predator, Stridor (last tier only would be 0% for non wounded survivors),

sorry but no killer, not even nurse or billy, can cover 40 meters in 4 seconds, it's literally impossible, especially when you consider time for target aqisition and reaction

Bravo0413

STUP CUDLIN KIILLRS!....... RREEEEEEEEEEE!!

Bravo0413

powerbats said:

@Milkymalk said:

Rancor: You don't have to do anything except fall behind, is that what you mean? I can see survivors' auras for a grand total of five times during the game, and every single time it means I am closer to losing.

BBQ&Chili shows you auras that are FAR away. It basically only gives you a hint in which direction you should walk if you at least want to meaningfully allow the unhook for free. I play BBQ for the bonus points and barely ever for the aura.

Bitter Murmur activates when a gen pops and shows me that there was somebody at that gen. Woohoo. Unless it was right next to you this perk is useless.

Deerstalker: Ehm... Deerstalker is in no way a counter to stealth play. I'll let you figure out why.

Back to topic: The problem is that looping is a survivor's best choice. If the killer follows, you get a sh*ton of points and waste his time so the other survivors can do gens. If he doesn't, you get out of jail free and can go back to doing whatever he caught you doing. Still points for winning the chase.
The devs should not make looping harder, but give survivors a reason to not loop at all. For example, don't reward them for long chases but penalize them like killers get penalized for camping soon. Give them a pool of blood points and have them lose points during chases. Whatever is left, they get if they survive. In fact, I like this idea so much that I'm going to post it in suggestions right now.

You're joking right because I see complaints and excuses where actual opportunities are.

Rancor - No it shows you right where people are at for 3 seconds when that gen is done and it's up to you to take advantage of that huge amount of vision. Oh and when the last gen is powered you get to see the auras of every survivor for 3 seconds and the Obsession is exposed and can be Mori'd.

BBQ&Chili - Far away as in over 24 meters far, that's actually not that far and you can easily cover that distance in a few seconds. If you're not using the aura then you're wasting the perk because while it shows where they were it's still a good indicator of where to look. Don't see anyone or only 1 well chances are ones close so go look and quit complaining.

Bitter Murmur - You get to see the auras of all survivors within 16 meters of that gen for 5 seconds. So that means you can clearly see which way they're going, if someone is going for a hook save etc. The last gen is popped all survivors auras are shown to you for 10 seconds. Meaning those going for unhooks, gates etc are all shown for 10 seconds.

Deerstalker isn't a anti stealth perk, they ere probably thinking of something different unless in the context of baiting out a stealthy player coming to heal a survivor that moved.

The looping idea isn't going to do anything but punish those that don't care and want to depip anyways. The solution to looping is to add in more LOS blockers which on Autohaven is making Huntresses mad. That and add more ways to break los with stealthy/evade choices.

That last part is going to require that a lot of killer tracking perks go away if loopings going to disappear. BBQ is fine, but thing like Whispers, Spies, Predator, Stridor (last tier only would be 0% for non wounded survivors),

I dont understand why people bring up rancor for revealing survivors like it's a meta perk.... it's no wheres near meta.... can it be handy yeah but it's prettymuch a gen explosion by the time the killer gets there the survivors are gone unless you're nurse or Billy it's not aura reading like BBQ... by far I'd have to say bitter murmur is the best aura reading perk in the game

Radiant

Cool down ppl, bit off topic here.

Some poor design choices are providing killers with superpowers and removing most of the time wasting things from survivors such as pallets, some infinites and the stamina not recovering while in a chase - not to talk about faster animation for pickup and broken hatchet, vault and hook vacuums still there.

The result is that survivors are getting stronger with each help that is getting removed - forcing them to become better - while killers are getting worse and worse relying only on perks and addons - totally impossible to find a decent trapper anymore and even the good billys and nurses are 1/10 of how many they used to be.

Cuddling killers makes the game easier for survivors.
Just a fact.

Radiant

Cool down people.
A bit out of topic here.

Cuddling killers is making survivors stronger.
While killers are provided with more and more superpowers, survivors are being taken away most of the time-losing things: pallets, infinites, faster pickup animation, stamina not recovery in chases - not to mention broken hatchets, vaults and hook vacuum still there.

The result is that survivors are adapting becoming stronger and stronger, while killers are relying more and more on perks and addons, to the point that is impossible to find a decent Trapper anymore and even good Billys and Nurses are 1/10 the number they used to be.

This is a fact that don't make any of the two sides happy.

Wolf74

@Radiant said:
Cool down people.
A bit out of topic here.

Cuddling killers is making survivors stronger.
While killers are provided with more and more superpowers, survivors are being taken away most of the time-losing things: pallets, infinites, faster pickup animation, stamina not recovery in chases - not to mention broken hatchets, vaults and hook vacuum still there.

The result is that survivors are adapting becoming stronger and stronger, while killers are relying more and more on perks and addons, to the point that is impossible to find a decent Trapper anymore and even good Billys and Nurses are 1/10 the number they used to be.

This is a fact that don't make any of the two sides happy.

Are you serious?
Killer get buffed and survivor nerfed?
What "superpowers" did killer get?
When?
How about getting stabbed with a rusty hook is making you recover from exhaustion?
Invulnerability after getting unhooked ?
Better fast vaults for survivor?
You even mention the urban myth of "hook vacuum"... that tells a lot about your point of view.

ShrimpTwiggs

Fixing broken map design is in no way, cuddling killers.

@Radiant said:
Cool down people.
A bit out of topic here.

Cuddling killers is making survivors stronger.
While killers are provided with more and more superpowers, survivors are being taken away most of the time-losing things: pallets, infinites, faster pickup animation, stamina not recovery in chases - not to mention broken hatchets, vaults and hook vacuum still there.

The result is that survivors are adapting becoming stronger and stronger, while killers are relying more and more on perks and addons, to the point that is impossible to find a decent Trapper anymore and even good Billys and Nurses are 1/10 the number they used to be.

This is a fact that don't make any of the two sides happy.

This is a very bad argument to justify broken mechanics. Survivors having to adapt will most likely make the game more fun. The killers will have to put up with less broken crap and the survivors have to put more effort into winning.

Radiant

Your salt is badly placed...

Try not to be fanboys and you will see that the constant rant vs surv will be endless if they keep tuning killers up.

Have you noticed that 80% of surv items and addons are useless? Maps? Keys? Increase luck? 1 additional box? Rly?  

Selfcare and DS will be reworked heavily and killers will still complain cuz they will not get 4k every match anyway.

And surv will get better and better because, if you cant rely on perks you get very good at evading, being chased, confuse the killer.

RSB

@Radiant said:
Your salt is badly placed...

Try not to be fanboys and you will see that the constant rant vs surv will be endless if they keep tuning killers up.

Have you noticed that 80% of surv items and addons are useless? Maps? Keys? Increase luck? 1 additional box? Rly?  

Selfcare and DS will be reworked heavily and killers will still complain cuz they will not get 4k every match anyway.

And surv will get better and better because, if you cant rely on perks you get very good at evading, being chased, confuse the killer.

ISIS terrorists' thinks they are good, too. Just like you.

vampire_toothy

@Radiant said:
Cool down people.
A bit out of topic here.

Cuddling killers is making survivors stronger.
While killers are provided with more and more superpowers, survivors are being taken away most of the time-losing things: pallets, infinites, faster pickup animation, stamina not recovery in chases - not to mention broken hatchets, vaults and hook vacuum still there.

The result is that survivors are adapting becoming stronger and stronger, while killers are relying more and more on perks and addons, to the point that is impossible to find a decent Trapper anymore and even good Billys and Nurses are 1/10 the number they used to be.

This is a fact that don't make any of the two sides happy.

Maps like the groaning storehouse were in bad need of fixes because they had vaults that were simply horrible and the storehouse infact still has a chance to spawn in the good window. Keep in mind that these map fixes came with the nerf to bloodlust as most of the broken loops in the game have been getting patched up and therefor bloodlust has nearly no purpose left and eventually should be entirely removed. It seems to me that you just like to think about the changes to survivor rather than accounting for what changes occurred to both sides of the spectrum here. Fixing up the maps was actually the best choice the devs could've made and no single building should ever guarantee everyone who uses it a 3 minute chase. Instead of getting upset that previously broken maps are being fixed you should instead take the opportunity to learn how to properly use jungle gyms or at the very least attempt to suggest better ways to fix horribly broken maps. I think the word "infinites" says enough as to why they got fixed, you even called it that yourself.

Faster pickup animation? Alright that was an unneeded change especially with the fact that lightborn exists.
Pallets? The vacuums needed to be removed as it was only a temporary fix to players getting stuck inside the pallet, with that bug being gone it means the pallet vacuum should be too.
Stamina not recovering in chases? I honestly don't get how you're still complaining about this, I mean yes I think only sprint burst should've been touched but this is an older but logical change, whenever I play survivor I notice no difference in how well I was able to play now and before. You've even forgotten to account for the slight buff exhaustion received as it automatically recovers when you go on the hook to help counteract camping.
Broken hatchets? I would've actually been fine with the new hatchet hitboxes as they would've been more fair and realistic, the problem was that survivor hitboxes didn't change with them so the hatchets actually ended up going through the survivors because of this even if you had an accurate shot that should've injured the survivor. I'm all on board with better hatchet hitboxes but only if the other hitboxes get fixed too.
Hook vacuum? As I've said before, I'm fine with all vacuums being gone, keep in mind though that your pallet vacuum did at least come with the removal of pickup vacuums. Realistically speaking though, it's hard to fine a reason to complain about this because it's so minor and the removal of it would only have a very minimal impact on the game.

But what I find really funny is the fact that you say that survivors are adapting while killers are becoming more reliant on their perks when the reality is that you complaining right here about all of this shows you're not adapting to the changes but instead would rather complain about very valid changes and have only pointed out a few pointless changes like faster pickups or for other things you lack the full context of the changes. One big flaw I see in your argument here is the fact that you purposely only attempt to call out the changes made to killers but you do not even begin to acknowledge the changes survivors have received to compensate for such changes, infact most of your posts seemingly are only ever made to complain about killers and that's not to attack your perspective but instead to point out your heavy bias against killers. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though, how about you provide examples of what you would do to better the game?

Now, there are a few other things I would like to point out. Yes I agree there are broken addons on this game and for both sides, though if I'm not mistaken a certain developer brought up that they want to look at and revamp all the survivor addons and take a look at currently worthless items. Examples of addons I find to be broken for example would include iridescent heads, insta healers, 5 blink nurse or maximum distance nurse just to name a few, so there are addons that need to be looked at but for both ends rather than being so quick to just judge one side. The other broken addons survivors had like BNP and insta blinds were removed and therefor they aren't listed on here, not to say that I don't think they need a slight buff or a rarity drop. What I find funny though is that you say killers rely on their perks and addons but as an example I usually run spirit without addons and have infact even taken a step away from the majority of the meta and I've seen many other killers do so too and do just fine. The bigger problem is the ranking system which has made it easier for people to pip and doesn't do a great job at determining skill as much as it determines how fairly you played instead, hence to why you might not be seeing good trappers as often anymore.

@Radiant said:
Your salt is badly placed...

Try not to be fanboys and you will see that the constant rant vs surv will be endless if they keep tuning killers up.

Have you noticed that 80% of surv items and addons are useless? Maps? Keys? Increase luck? 1 additional box? Rly?  

Selfcare and DS will be reworked heavily and killers will still complain cuz they will not get 4k every match anyway.

And surv will get better and better because, if you cant rely on perks you get very good at evading, being chased, confuse the killer.

Well, it looks like I've already brought up the items. I do think the game needs more offerings but that's unrelated to the topic here nor is that even related to the strength of a killer vs a survivor.
DS? That perk can burn, though I'm fine with selfcare remaining the same as it doesn't need to be touched.
I find it silly however about how many times I see the "killers always want 4k's" argument. I could care less about kills as I prefer to play the game for fun and only generally get upset at bad maps or terrible teammates, Infact once I reach the red ranks I usually just let the last two people live.

My main point with all of this is that you have your head in the wrong place on this and you seemingly only want to attack killers every chance you get, the game has come a long way since release but obviously the divide between killer and survivor has not. How about you provide actually valid examples of what you would do to improve the game and explain in-depth why you think they would work.

MhhBurgers

You should not be able to run around a killer for 40+ secs just by running around a store house, sorry. If you're not willing to put down one of the many pallets on the map then be prepared to be hit in the future because this is where the game's heading.

Wahara

Stealth builds are out classed by looping/chase builds but they aren't unviable.

BBQ & Chili: Sprint toward the recent hook and urban evade away.

Whispers: Screw with them when you find out they have it by sending someone in and out of the killers terror radius.

Also, don't hide in obvious places if you can help it. Most high rank killers will have a time limit for how long they'll try and sniff someone out before moving on. I always consistently catch people camping out in the yellow tractor on Autohaven wreckers. I always catch people hiding in the circus caravan that has a chest in it on Father Campbell's asylum. The bottom stories of the shacks in backwater swamp, also obvious. People seem to think the killer won't risk the danger of being caught in a loop to search for you there.

Your initial instinct is to stake out the very best cover and find something that feels like a cozy box, but it's better to hide in places that have only partial line of sight blockers, though many of them condensed together to weave in and out of.

But, I can only speak from personal experience and what has worked for me. I only play stealth builds as survivor because that's my jam.

Wolf74

@Wahara said:
Stealth builds are out classed by looping/chase builds but they aren't unviable.

At the moment I run a chase oriented build on Wraith (BS, End, SF, Bamboozle) and having a blast getting those overconfident looper wannabees.
I haven't reached red ranks with this build yet, so I am not yet sure how good it really is, but I would love to see more people using this stuff to force survivor into changing their playstyle.