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Tyde is right, change my mind
As usual Tyde is summing the problems up pretty well …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-klas-5Q4kComments
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Tyde is correct on much of what he says, but he does not get that this game is broken into two games. There is the high-end game, and the low-end game. The bulk of the players are on the mid to low end. He is judging the game from the top. If we treat all levels from that view, we lose the bulk of players. A lot of good a balanced game with no player base is. That's called a dead game. Dead by balance.
At the top, the survivors are very powerful and filled with skilled players. But Dead by Daylight is a bit unique in that it attracts players that don't usually play competitive games due to its horror genre. Therefore, many players are not very good at the whole survivor thing, nor will they ever get better due to other priorities or just skill limit in general. For instance, my wife loves the game, but she is legally blind and suffers from the ravages of pancreatic cancer. She will NEVER be a top-tier player. She has nearly quit several times due to the insane amount of camping in tier 16-20. Luckily, I've staved that off. This game has attracted players of all age brackets, and can easily lose them too.
At the bottom, those players are way overpowered by killers. Why do you think the camping nerf exists? Not because it is a cheap tactic, like Tyde said, it is a legit tactic vs top-tier players. But it is massively used by low-skilled killers to destroy low-skilled survivors that will likely never improve (see statement above). So, the player base begins to shrink, rank 14-20 survivors start to quit or switch to killer because they are tired of being camped and tunneled an not getting to experience the game. To those people (again, the bulk of the people paying $), the game is about that fear of running around, trying to do a gen, getting a chance to have fun. Not entering a map, getting caught, and camped/tunneled without ever doing anything.
That is why the developers really need to look at tiered nerfs/buffs. Stop punishing all killers/survivors with nerfs. Look at nerfing SWFs at higher ranks. Look at nerfing camping based on rank, or better yet, encourage a more hunting/chasing gameplay by killers at the level. Give them more rewards for leaving the hook, and hooking a different survivor each time. That increases the enjoyment of that casual base (which is typically larger than the hardcore) while being able to focus on making the high-end more balanced.
It would take more effort and thought than these developers are willing to do though. But, Tyde needs to remember that most of the players in this game will never achieve his level of gameplay. That is why his view is so narrow in scope.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
Tyde is correct on much of what he says, but he does not get that this game is broken into two games. There is the high-end game, and the low-end game. The bulk of the players are on the mid to low end. He is judging the game from the top. If we treat all levels from that view, we lose the bulk of players. A lot of good a balanced game with no player base is. That's called a dead game. Dead by balance.Games need to get balanced from the top down.
Literally EVERY other game -at least those that want to be competitive- do that.
Heck, DBD is holding official tournaments.
If they do, they need to balance like that.
If they want it to be "just casual", they should say it and stop pretending it to be a tournament game.13 -
Why is it that when a streamer says something that one side agrees with it's gospel, but if it's something they disagree with it's not? It's gospel one time and the next time it's well that's just their opinion or they're just a streamer.
He may have some points as do other streamers but the picking and choosing of what's is gospel and what's not is hypocritical.
As @Warlock_2020 pointed out about the 2 different aspects.
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Feel free to show any streamer that is reasonably supporting your point.
I would really like to hear some serious reasons to support killer nerfs and survivor buffs.4 -
@Wolf74 said:
@Warlock_2020 said:
Tyde is correct on much of what he says, but he does not get that this game is broken into two games. There is the high-end game, and the low-end game. The bulk of the players are on the mid to low end. He is judging the game from the top. If we treat all levels from that view, we lose the bulk of players. A lot of good a balanced game with no player base is. That's called a dead game. Dead by balance.Games need to get balanced from the top down.
Literally EVERY other game -at least those that want to be competitive- do that.
Heck, DBD is holding official tournaments.
If they do, they need to balance like that.
If they want it to be "just casual", they should say it and stop pretending it to be a tournament game.You don't seem to understand that they can do both. They can preserve the casual game, while balancing the high-end. They have a rank system already in place, that is the road map. If try to balance across the board, it will always cause one end to be out of balance. This game is not a big enough game to exist on the high-end alone, with tournaments and competitive attention. It is made for more casual fans of the genre, yet has an aspect that can reach that competitive crowd. They need to balance accordingly.
Many games already do this. The top brackets, or competitive players tend to have different abilities or "balance" than those who play casually. They also have a much more experienced development team that cares about keeping balance on both ends. The issues this game suffers from is a laziness by their developers. An unwillingness to look at the varying level of game play from the top to the bottom. Unfortunately, much of its top-tiered player base is also ignorant of the business needs of a game like this. They think their level of play is all that matters, thus you end up with a well-balanced game with too few players to do much with.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
You don't seem to understand that they can do both. They can preserve the casual game, while balancing the high-end. They have a rank system already in place, that is the road map.
I like how people tell others that they "don't understand" something, just because they don't agree.
The rank system is flawed since everyone can just derank and does not need to accept it.
And you can NOT balance for both.
If you think it is possible, feel free to explain that to me.3 -
No, I apologize if it came across as me calling you out. I was meaning it more in generalities. I used to play at a very competitive level in some games, and I met a lot of player that were clueless.
As for not being able to balance for both, you absolutely can.
You do it by rank.
In games where the ranks are 15+, the killer gets the emblem nerf for staying near the hook. The killer also gets bonus points for hooking a different player than the last. The players, perhaps, get a 5% speed nerf on gens when the killer leaves the hook by more than 32 meters. This encourages low-rank killers to hunt the low-ranked survivors instead of standing at the hook. It also helps both players and killers learn the game and experience more aspects of it. This is not difficult coding, and can be done based on the matching system currently in place.
Higher rank games, say 1-8 (these ranks are just examples), SWF teams of 3 or more automatically get a nerf to gen speed of 15%. This slows the game down, regardless of perks. Killers get a buff to light resistance, not as good as the perk, but say 25%. Each game has a false totem that spawns. Killers get the benefit of brutal strength in all matches rank 1-8, making their damage to generators more effective as well as pallet breaks.
This is not overly difficult coding, almost a simple If/Then based on player ranks. You can do much more. My ideas in this post are just for conversation. Either way, there are aspects of the game that can be changed based on rank without reworking perks, or maps. Just overall atmospheric changes. Think along the lines of many MMOs that have world events that allow low level and high level players to participate and carry an equal weight. Or some pvp-based games that balance gear by giving nerfs/buffs based on gear score. Same thing.
It takes the development team being dedicated to weighing these issues and seriously wanting to balance the game.
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You miss the point… the game is THE SAME across all ranks.
Nothing you say is on the horizon so far.
The map layout and rules and mechanics are the same for rank 20 and rank 1.
That's the reality we have to work with at the moment.5 -
I agree Wolf. The game has no such changes on the horizon. That is the problem. If they want true balance, they can't do it with one across the board change. That is what they are doing, and that is why changes harm one end or the other. They currently try to balance things based on survivor or killer, where it is better (as many other games have figured out) to do it based on both survivor and killer as well as tier.
The ideas I'm speaking of are more about what needs to happen, and why we keep getting in these dumb conversations about killer vs survivor. It is because the views from the top to bottom are so different. It is almost two different games.
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If they would adjust pallets by rank, this would be a step in the right direction, but since people would just derank, it wouldn't stick.
We have to argue around what the game is really about and that is "the same rules across all ranks".2 -
Deranking really would not change too much. The survivor who deranks will quickly rank back up. That is a yo-yo that they will toy with no matter what. The number of survivors who do that, or killers, is a bit limited overall.
As long as we argue about the same rules across all ranks, we will never achieve the slightest semblance of balance, and even risk destroying the player base. Tyde mentions a game that has great balance, but has no player base. Therefore, it was wasted. This game has so much potential, but we will see what happens. Having a player base that starts to view it as a multi-layered game will be a good start towards getting balance, but we will see.
I enjoyed the discussion Wolf. Hope to see you in game, unless you are a lot better than me, then I hope we don't meet in game.
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The rank system would have to be tweaked and deranking would have to be adjusted as well. They could do it similar to how League of Legends does it to keep people from sandbagging.
They eventually do need a casual mode in addition to a ranked mode but the ranked mode would have to be pretty strict to prevent the griefing and deranking stuff that goes on now.
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League is a good example on the rank system and adjustments that can be made.
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@powerbats said:
They eventually do need a casual mode in addition to a ranked mode
Casual = with SWF
Ranked = without SWF
… right?4 -
If they think they can get enough participation in ranked without SWF, then sure, have ranked be without SWF. If not, then SWF needs to have certain challenges in ranked. Nerf gen times, certain perks should be limited, etc. SWF is entirely different than solo play because the survivors can coordinate to extremes, therefore, if they want to have ranked SWFs, they should be less powerful than a solo survivor.
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I think what he means is a mode to mess around in just for fun.Wolf74 said:@powerbats said:
They eventually do need a casual mode in addition to a ranked mode
Casual = with SWF
Ranked = without SWF
… right?1 -
@DarkWo1f997 said:
Wolf74 said:@powerbats said:
They eventually do need a casual mode in addition to a ranked mode
Casual = with SWF
Ranked = without SWF
… right?
I think what he means is a mode to mess around in just for fun.
That but also as @Warlock_2020 said, given the player base is mostly swf you'd have a really hard time finding lobbies. But also a ranked swf would need some serious tweaking because you'd get various size swf groups on there.
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@powerbats said:
That but also as @Warlock_2020 said, given the player base is mostly swf you'd have a really hard time finding lobbies. But also a ranked swf would need some serious tweaking because you'd get various size swf groups on there.
Which is not true.
Devs stated on stream that roughly 50% of all survivor join the game by clicking the SWF option, including those that join via Swf solo. Some do that to avoid bugs or out of habit, etc.
So we have less than 50% of all survivor player playing Swf, which not "mostly".0 -
@Wolf74 said:
@powerbats said:
That but also as @Warlock_2020 said, given the player base is mostly swf you'd have a really hard time finding lobbies. But also a ranked swf would need some serious tweaking because you'd get various size swf groups on there.
Which is not true.
Devs stated on stream that roughly 50% of all survivor join the game by clicking the SWF option, including those that join via Swf solo. Some do that to avoid bugs or out of habit, etc.
So we have less than 50% of all survivor player playing Swf, which not "mostly".Was that the latest dev stream since joining solo means you're not swf but you join a lobby that's swf if i'm not misunderstanding you.
I would like to see them update the overall stats like they did almost a year ago with the lobby breakdown by size and %.
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I would love to see more stats from the Devs, but I doubt it.
They have reasons to not show stats, since it would show that a lot of their changes aren't justified by stats.
Maybe their changes are justified… by their marketing team. :P0 -
All I have to say about Tyde is that he can eff himself with the Doctor's Stick for the comment related to the Doctor's Hallowed Blight cosmetic.
Tyde knows a lot, but he's utterly ignorant in some regards, mainly in how strong Killers are. He's a noob Doctor, yet convinced that he knows how to play him.
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@DocOctober said:
All I have to say about Tyde is that he can eff himself with the Doctor's Stick for the comment related to the Doctor's Hallowed Blight cosmetic.Tyde knows a lot, but he's utterly ignorant in some regards, mainly in how strong Killers are. He's a noob Doctor, yet convinced that he knows how to play him.
If you are a better doc, feel free to provide footage of your gameplay such that doc-plebs like tyde and me can learn from you
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@Warlock_2020 said:
Tyde is correct on much of what he says, but he does not get that this game is broken into two games. There is the high-end game, and the low-end game. The bulk of the players are on the mid to low end. He is judging the game from the top. If we treat all levels from that view, we lose the bulk of players. A lot of good a balanced game with no player base is. That's called a dead game. Dead by balance.Then give us the option for casual mode, no ranks nothing. The fact that we are forced to play ranks, with no rewards and incentive is wrong on so many levels
people who play this game constantly are the high rank people, low rank are casuals who only play few times a year, months, a few times into the game never picking it up again
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@Wolf74 said:
As usual Tyde is summing the problems up pretty well …Pretty well summarized. Nothing to add
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@Warlock_2020 said:
Then give us the option for casual mode, no ranks nothing. The fact that we are forced to play ranks, with no rewards and incentive is wrong on so many levels
again
Than tell me... is Swf "ranked" or "casual"?
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@Warlock_2020 said:
Tyde is correct on much of what he says, but he does not get that this game is broken into two games. There is the high-end game, and the low-end game. The bulk of the players are on the mid to low end. He is judging the game from the top. If we treat all levels from that view, we lose the bulk of players. A lot of good a balanced game with no player base is. That's called a dead game. Dead by balance.At the top, the survivors are very powerful and filled with skilled players. But Dead by Daylight is a bit unique in that it attracts players that don't usually play competitive games due to its horror genre. Therefore, many players are not very good at the whole survivor thing, nor will they ever get better due to other priorities or just skill limit in general. For instance, my wife loves the game, but she is legally blind and suffers from the ravages of pancreatic cancer. She will NEVER be a top-tier player. She has nearly quit several times due to the insane amount of camping in tier 16-20. Luckily, I've staved that off. This game has attracted players of all age brackets, and can easily lose them too.
At the bottom, those players are way overpowered by killers. Why do you think the camping nerf exists? Not because it is a cheap tactic, like Tyde said, it is a legit tactic vs top-tier players. But it is massively used by low-skilled killers to destroy low-skilled survivors that will likely never improve (see statement above). So, the player base begins to shrink, rank 14-20 survivors start to quit or switch to killer because they are tired of being camped and tunneled an not getting to experience the game. To those people (again, the bulk of the people paying $), the game is about that fear of running around, trying to do a gen, getting a chance to have fun. Not entering a map, getting caught, and camped/tunneled without ever doing anything.
That is why the developers really need to look at tiered nerfs/buffs. Stop punishing all killers/survivors with nerfs. Look at nerfing SWFs at higher ranks. Look at nerfing camping based on rank, or better yet, encourage a more hunting/chasing gameplay by killers at the level. Give them more rewards for leaving the hook, and hooking a different survivor each time. That increases the enjoyment of that casual base (which is typically larger than the hardcore) while being able to focus on making the high-end more balanced.
It would take more effort and thought than these developers are willing to do though. But, Tyde needs to remember that most of the players in this game will never achieve his level of gameplay. That is why his view is so narrow in scope.
Pretty much this. I'm high rank killer and low rank survivor so I see both issues. Survivors are straight up OP at high rank with all their perks and teamwork and ridiculous loops. In a 1 on 1 situation their perks are ok, the problem is that across 4 survivors it stacks into ridiculously overwhelming odds against the killer as many perks are all capable of wasting so much of the killers time - put that onto people who know how to "rush gens" and it's game over. Survivors should have like 3 perks each, totaling 12 giving the killer 4 which would be a third of their perks rather than a quarter. It's daft that survivors and killers have an equal number of perks when there are 4 survivors and 1 killer.
As a survivor I find it hard to level up playing solo. Almost every single game someone disconnects and screws over out team. Seriously, every 2/3 games sometimes you'll see someone downed in the first 30 seconds and them bam, disconnect. 5 gens with 3 people, much fun! if it isn't that then you just get camping/tunneling killers. The problem is that at low rank it works because people feed them. Someone will rush in for the rescue like 2 seconds after the hook, they get downed. A third person goes in, fails again, downed. That's it, game over. To be fair sometimes the killer plays a part, they'll circle around the hooks just wating for someone to unhook so they can tunnel. To the person being tunnelled they've earned no points, gone straight on the hook, and from how the killer is playing it seems they'll never be able to get away from the hook so in a way I don't blame some for disconnecting. A lot of games end with me getting the hatch after my team has fallen prey to a camping/tunneling killer by being too altruistic, or people will quit out and then sometimes I quit because why should I have a crappy game just because other people quit in the first 30 seconds? what benefit to me is it to stay in a game like that? where I'm at a disadvantage through no fault of my own? it's easier for me to re-roll and try and get a game with full people. People can cry but screw it, I paid for a 4 vs 1 game and I get that not every game is going to be like that but again some nights every 2/3 games, someone will disconnect before the 1st hook. If they quit 30 seconds earlier while loading at least it would be 4 gens for 3 people.
They need to start knocking gens off if people disconnect early. Punishing camping/tunneling killers is also a step in the right direction. They really need to work on balancing the high end too though. A bit of extra time on the gens, NOT HAVING SURVIVORS SPAWN NEXT TO TOTEMS, taking away a perk or removing the BS perks like DS.
There's literally no benefit to playing killer against SWF. It's especially daft if you're running totems because once one person sees your totem they'll tell their friends where it is. Yet it rewards the same amount of BP? it's easy to see why people lobby dodge.
That said with how many people disconnect matches it's easy to see why playing solo can be pointless.
It's a hard thing to balance but since voice communication is a survivors biggest strength there needs to be rewards for playing against parties.
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He has perfectly explained one of this game's main flaw.
Just listen at 6:50 mins
Basically majority of survivors ask the Killer (never directly, because even themselves know how stupid it sound) to be their friendly Dungeon Master.
Why ?
"Because you can hurt us and not otherwise :'o " was one of their first strawman arguments.
(And now it seems that the Devs finally catered to this stupid complaint and are pushing it in the game the hard way.)
Since the release of this game.
I, alongside others vets were already calling them for their bullshits.
2 years has passed, and here we are, nothing has changed.
Maybe one thing tho :
Majority of the survivor's communitty are even more toxic and entitled than back then.
Only logical, take 2 kids, spoil the first one at the expanse of the second one.
Then, let see how much of a "good person" the first one will become.
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Camping being rewarded by survivors is the issue, sure. It rewards the easy mode for killers being unable to put pressure on the match themselves. The easy counter is just as mindless for the survivors. Just do gens.
Great. So, for the survivors to counter the mindless action, they just need to be mindless themselves and hold M1. Wow. What a great, fun, interactive gaming experience for all involved, that the KILLER SET IN MOTION.
Let me give the reasoning as to why survivors won't just sit and do gens... BECAUSE IT'S BORING. It's more fun to try and make a save and help the team than sit and do gens. The killer has chosen to camp (unless there are scenarios given in the next paragraph), and so the game becomes dull and not fun. A GAME.
Camping is and always will be looked down on because it ruins the game and requires no skill or thought.Granted, if a survivor taken to the hook is rushed, it's their fault for what happens after. And if no survivor is seen on BBQ, then the killer doesn't need to stray far from the hook. Okay, fine. But these two instances given occur far less than a killer just camping because it's easy.
Tyde is a pseudo-intellectual gamer that has found a casual game for him to be seen as "advanced at", by his audience. This game favours survivors in such circumstances that are so rare (4 good survivors on a bad map will usually win), because 90% of the player base is casual, 5% are good and 5% are great (obviously not hard numbers but, you should get the point). Many think they are or should be in the top 10%. They say things like "DS can't be played around", "camping is a tactic", "Dead Hard is OP", "Flashlights are OP", "Shack is an infinite that can't be mind gamed". All of these things are nonsense, because the better players show it not to be true (there are many streamers and youtubers who show this, people just need to look). Which is why the retort is often, "git gud".
I play killer 90% of my time and I like that these changes to "punish" camping are being introduced, because when I do play survivor, I want to have fun and not at the expense of anyone. This is a fun, casual party game and should be treated as such.
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@DocOctober said:
All I have to say about Tyde is that he can eff himself with the Doctor's Stick for the comment related to the Doctor's Hallowed Blight cosmetic.Tyde knows a lot, but he's utterly ignorant in some regards, mainly in how strong Killers are. He's a noob Doctor, yet convinced that he knows how to play him.
Agreed and awesomed
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@DocOctober said:
All I have to say about Tyde is that he can eff himself with the Doctor's Stick for the comment related to the Doctor's Hallowed Blight cosmetic.Tyde knows a lot, but he's utterly ignorant in some regards, mainly in how strong Killers are. He's a noob Doctor, yet convinced that he knows how to play him.
The Doctor has no way to travel the map faster, no way to down survivors faster, and no way to deal with looping. He's just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius, that can track survivors easily, but can't do anything during a chase, and is ez pz countered just by knowing how he and the game work.
It's as simple as that. If Freddy and the Spirit didn't exist, the Doctor would be the worst killer in the game.4 -
@Acromio said:
@DocOctober said:
All I have to say about Tyde is that he can eff himself with the Doctor's Stick for the comment related to the Doctor's Hallowed Blight cosmetic.Tyde knows a lot, but he's utterly ignorant in some regards, mainly in how strong Killers are. He's a noob Doctor, yet convinced that he knows how to play him.
The Doctor has no way to travel the map faster, no way to down survivors faster, and no way to deal with looping. He's just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius, that can track survivors easily, but can't do anything during a chase, and is ez pz countered just by knowing how he and the game work.
It's as simple as that. If Freddy and the Spirit didn't exist, the Doctor would be the worst killer in the game.Actually he can block some loops with well timed shocks.
Or at least the survivor need to adjust and drop the pallets earlier, which overall shortens the chase.
I think he is mid tier, because he is capable to slow the game down.2 -
Look Tyde's point is moot, you cannot equivalent 1v4 is scope of power, survivors don't need nerfs, they need more opportunities to make mistakes and that's the biggest issue at high ranks is that survivors don't make mistakes that low ranks do. The other issue is objectives for both sides, Killers objective is downing and hooking a survivor and that takes about the same time as 1 gen for most games. I think they should make the gen time longer by just 5 seconds and hook death timer shorter by 5 seconds to see if it has any game impact. They are working better on maps and looping so it might get better after a couple patches.
Hook camping is dumb because it shuts down the game for 2 people, both the killer and the survivor and the devs need to give a passive bonus (bloodlust t1 maybe? or quicker actions on a pallet or gen after hooking? or a quick power increase) for leaving the hook instead of punishing them.
I think Freddy just needs a minor buff to either his power range or sleep timer, I also think him and Wraith should be able to nab survivors off gens while in stealth states.
Death Garden is kind of a wake up call for BHVR and frankly the hunters were op, I watched many streams of that and only saw Hexy win a couple games as runner.2 -
@Acromio said:
@DocOctober said:
All I have to say about Tyde is that he can eff himself with the Doctor's Stick for the comment related to the Doctor's Hallowed Blight cosmetic.Tyde knows a lot, but he's utterly ignorant in some regards, mainly in how strong Killers are. He's a noob Doctor, yet convinced that he knows how to play him.
The Doctor has no way to travel the map faster, no way to down survivors faster, and no way to deal with looping. He's just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius, that can track survivors easily, but can't do anything during a chase, and is ez pz countered just by knowing how he and the game work.
It's as simple as that. If Freddy and the Spirit didn't exist, the Doctor would be the worst killer in the game.Well would you look at that, another ignorant.
Can't play the Doc? Git gud.
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Ok, have fun getting looped, genrushed, and teabagged at the exit gates with your scrub-stomping character.
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@akbays35 said:
, Killers objective is downing and hooking a survivor and that takes about the same time as 1 gen for most games.In what world are you playing?
Yes, one hit is usually 30-40 seconds plus carrytime, that's roughly 80 seconds for one hook.
But during that time, 3 survivor can do THREE different gens.0 -
Warlock_2020 said:
Tyde is correct on much of what he says, but he does not get that this game is broken into two games. There is the high-end game, and the low-end game. The bulk of the players are on the mid to low end. He is judging the game from the top. If we treat all levels from that view, we lose the bulk of players. A lot of good a balanced game with no player base is. That's called a dead game. Dead by balance.
At the top, the survivors are very powerful and filled with skilled players. But Dead by Daylight is a bit unique in that it attracts players that don't usually play competitive games due to its horror genre. Therefore, many players are not very good at the whole survivor thing, nor will they ever get better due to other priorities or just skill limit in general. For instance, my wife loves the game, but she is legally blind and suffers from the ravages of pancreatic cancer. She will NEVER be a top-tier player. She has nearly quit several times due to the insane amount of camping in tier 16-20. Luckily, I've staved that off. This game has attracted players of all age brackets, and can easily lose them too.
At the bottom, those players are way overpowered by killers. Why do you think the camping nerf exists? Not because it is a cheap tactic, like Tyde said, it is a legit tactic vs top-tier players. But it is massively used by low-skilled killers to destroy low-skilled survivors that will likely never improve (see statement above). So, the player base begins to shrink, rank 14-20 survivors start to quit or switch to killer because they are tired of being camped and tunneled an not getting to experience the game. To those people (again, the bulk of the people paying $), the game is about that fear of running around, trying to do a gen, getting a chance to have fun. Not entering a map, getting caught, and camped/tunneled without ever doing anything.
That is why the developers really need to look at tiered nerfs/buffs. Stop punishing all killers/survivors with nerfs. Look at nerfing SWFs at higher ranks. Look at nerfing camping based on rank, or better yet, encourage a more hunting/chasing gameplay by killers at the level. Give them more rewards for leaving the hook, and hooking a different survivor each time. That increases the enjoyment of that casual base (which is typically larger than the hardcore) while being able to focus on making the high-end more balanced.
It would take more effort and thought than these developers are willing to do though. But, Tyde needs to remember that most of the players in this game will never achieve his level of gameplay. That is why his view is so narrow in scope.
..... they need to stop treating SWF and solo as one group... SWF is a problem.... a lot of issues will be solved once they implement the new objectives... and maybe then this game will be balanced
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How would new objectives fix SWF?
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@Bravo0413 said:
Wolf74 said:How would new objectives fix SWF?
New objectives that must be completed would extend the game effecting swf gen rush capability
New objectives would extend the game for ALL survivor… SWF would just make it more efficient.
Nothing would be changed about the insane advantage SWF on voice com have.1 -
And there is no way bhvr is going to change that... but you cant argue that it would slow them down allowing for matches to potentially be as long as they should... meaning more BP for everyone, more game time for everyone..Wolf74 said:@Bravo0413 said:
Wolf74 said:How would new objectives fix SWF?
New objectives that must be completed would extend the game effecting swf gen rush capability
New objectives would extend the game for ALL survivor… SWF would just make it more efficient.
Nothing would be changed about the insane advantage SWF on voice com have.0 -
@Bravo0413 said:
Wolf74 said:@Bravo0413 said:
Wolf74 said:
How would new objectives fix SWF?
New objectives that must be completed would extend the game effecting swf gen rush capability
New objectives would extend the game for ALL survivor… SWF would just make it more efficient.
Nothing would be changed about the insane advantage SWF on voice com have.
And there is no way bhvr is going to change that... but you cant argue that it would slow them down allowing for matches to potentially be as long as they should... meaning more BP for everyone, more game time for everyone..
But it would NOT change anything about SWF being stronger than solo survivor.
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Tydes nailing it all pretty accurately
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Thing with balance is that low tier players won't even notice the difference.
Remember HUGE EXHAUSTION NERF?
Everyone lost their ######### about it and now thing how long your good old average/mediocre/bad survivor lasts in chase. Surely it isn't more then 60 seconds so what is the point of complaining as you never get to see the effects.Camping is the issue for lower ranks but you can't stop the killer from standing in front of the hook and waiting for save. It is mechanically impossible to force killer player to do that. They won't care about the rank but they may care about bp's.
For those exact survivors, that everyone suddenly mentions when any balance talk occures, perks like BT, DS and similar were created. They are as noob friendly as one can be and don't require and deep thought to use them. DS became that weird perk that looks like it was designed to be for low ranks but has a skillcheck that only high ranks hit consistently.
Also: I doubt the changes will make any impact on game lenght. I don't treat any streamer or youtuber's words as only truth as I can think for myself but it won't change the fact that I agree on many aspects with Tyde.
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@theArashi said:
Thing with balance is that low tier players won't even notice the difference.
Remember HUGE EXHAUSTION NERF?
Everyone lost their ######### about it and now thing how long your good old average/mediocre/bad survivor lasts in chase. Surely it isn't more then 60 seconds so what is the point of complaining as you never get to see the effects.And now they get it back from getting impaled with a rusty hook. Yay!^^
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@DocOctober said:
@Acromio said:
@DocOctober said:
All I have to say about Tyde is that he can eff himself with the Doctor's Stick for the comment related to the Doctor's Hallowed Blight cosmetic.Tyde knows a lot, but he's utterly ignorant in some regards, mainly in how strong Killers are. He's a noob Doctor, yet convinced that he knows how to play him.
The Doctor has no way to travel the map faster, no way to down survivors faster, and no way to deal with looping. He's just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius, that can track survivors easily, but can't do anything during a chase, and is ez pz countered just by knowing how he and the game work.
It's as simple as that. If Freddy and the Spirit didn't exist, the Doctor would be the worst killer in the game.Well would you look at that, another ignorant.
Can't play the Doc? Git gud.
Guess I cant expect any footage from you since you ignore me. Classic
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@DeadByFlashlight said:
@DocOctober said:
@Acromio said:
@DocOctober said:
All I have to say about Tyde is that he can eff himself with the Doctor's Stick for the comment related to the Doctor's Hallowed Blight cosmetic.Tyde knows a lot, but he's utterly ignorant in some regards, mainly in how strong Killers are. He's a noob Doctor, yet convinced that he knows how to play him.
The Doctor has no way to travel the map faster, no way to down survivors faster, and no way to deal with looping. He's just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius, that can track survivors easily, but can't do anything during a chase, and is ez pz countered just by knowing how he and the game work.
It's as simple as that. If Freddy and the Spirit didn't exist, the Doctor would be the worst killer in the game.Well would you look at that, another ignorant.
Can't play the Doc? Git gud.
Guess I cant expect any footage from you since you ignore me. Classic
Nope, I simply overlooked your comment.
I only have old footage from pre-Doctor Cube times and only from streamers that I versed back then. I usually don't record my games, because frankly, what's the point if you aren't a streamer?
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@Wolf74 said:
@theArashi said:
Thing with balance is that low tier players won't even notice the difference.
Remember HUGE EXHAUSTION NERF?
Everyone lost their ######### about it and now thing how long your good old average/mediocre/bad survivor lasts in chase. Surely it isn't more then 60 seconds so what is the point of complaining as you never get to see the effects.And now they get it back from getting impaled with a rusty hook. Yay!^^
Blame the Entity since it likes to feed off survivors hopes since if they get to run away and think they'll get out.
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i actually enjoy watching how the break the game more with every patch, it kinda has some comedy value. buff this, nerf that, inplement "features" and "meachanics". tinkering with all the tiny symptoms instead of addressing the issue. more bandaids we create the first video game mummy
main issues so far:
-survivors appear to get bored and tend to bully etc. (even asking for more things to do)
-chases take too long ( chase time vs gen time vs overall match time
-some killers are only usefull with a certain addon setup or perks
-the holy trinity of " i dont have to fear anything"
-totem placement and the fact that a whole perk slot is gone with the totem, crippling the killer after round
about the first minute of the game
-survivor perks items that hardcounter killer abilitys
-not mentioning playstyles since they are the product of the game designhow i personally would adress them:
adjusting base movement speed values of survivors and killer
edit:(wasnt bloodlust the bandaid for it and now the bandaid thets bandaid fixed?)reducing the post hit sprint time to 1,5. (in the end chases should end by down or breaking line of sight)
hook respawn time set to 1 minute since sabo will be a thing again
talking about sabo: how about you need a toolbox or sabo without toolbox to disarm; not destroy a trappers trap? not like he can cluster a map with them and looses time setting them up
about those gen: to start a repair you have to find a spare part to start it; repairs take longer ( not getting paid enough for exact values), missing a skill check should feel like a punishment or more tense (in terms of regression) than just a " hey wake up" ( would you personally like the adrenaline kicking in when missing one?)
totem placement: well; hiding them and maybe dont make them shine across the map? maybe a kind of black myst coming out of the eye sockets ( flavoured after hex perk?)
the holy trinity:
lets be honest who plays resident evil for example for the horror aspect when they run around with the infinite herb cheat?
sprint burst does feel more like gotta go fast to the other side of the map than just a " burst" adjusting speed and time might help with that.i got a little more where that came from and if you are willing to have a reasonable discussion or maybe even have more ideas and adjustments; feel free to contact me.
but we all know where this will go anyway already but; one can dream and it feels good to be a little creative.
Thank you for your attention
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@Wolf74 said:
@akbays35 said:
, Killers objective is downing and hooking a survivor and that takes about the same time as 1 gen for most games.In what world are you playing?
Yes, one hit is usually 30-40 seconds plus carrytime, that's roughly 80 seconds for one hook.
But during that time, 3 survivor can do THREE different gens.there's usually one guy doing chests and totems so the 1-2 gens seems more plausible in game assuming the killer isn't chasing a guy that is next to another survivor attempting to get the gen done.
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Tbh, imo, If you're in a SWF, you shouldn't gain ranks. Since you can take a level 20 with 3 rank 1-5s and pick up baby rank 20-15 killers...
The game was meant to be played solo. Ranking from 20-1 solo as a survivor should yield rewards and i don't mean a crummy achievement. Same with Killers. 4v1 with comms and coordinated perks is cancer. Why is this still a discussion?
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