LGBTQ survivor/killer when?
Comments
-
Oh my god.
0 -
If you were called a homophobe, it's because you equated being LGBT with "identity politics", a term that, oddly enough, only seems to to apply to anything other than cis, white, heterosexual men. Those are never political.
4 -
That's the thing, though. It isnt a major plotpoint. It isnt focused on heavily and no big deal is made of it.
To quote, "Our monsters are gay and I DO make the rules."
4 -
Yes and no. He's throwing in his two cents that, while perhaps offensive to someone in support of the LGBT issue at hand, isn't directly attacking it. The full context of his post isn't "LGBT representation has no place in this game", it's "in my history whenever someone asked for representation and the developers agreed, they wound up making the situation worse". It's not unreasonable to say that characters shouldn't have any sexual preferences given because then it's an even playing field anyway. Any character can be gay, straight, trans, whatever.
My point is that you took it as an attack and I don't think it was meant as one. He was making a point, that's all.
1 -
Oddly enough, despite feeling that the devs' writing is bad and having had relationships in lore since the Nurse's release, they're only speaking up now, when it's LGBT people asking for representation. I took that into account when considering the whole context of their comment.
6 -
The term "identity politics" means to use what makes oneself unique - be it race, sexuality, whatever - to shame others into forced "tolerance". These things can happen organically, or they can happen because people demand them and call people who don't agree bigots. Or homophobes. Or cis, white, heterosexual men.
I've said about 30 times in this thread that I'm completely open to any character of any sexuality or ethnicity being in this game. I've also pointed out that what I disagree with is the aggressive insistence that if it doesn't happen, it's somehow a form of persecution. That, again, is playing identity politics.
I've also noticed that this is now the second time my own color, sexuality or personal philosophies have been insulted despite the fact that I've done no such thing to anyone else here for theirs. Some of you are a little too defensive about this.
2 -
I thought we'd made up 😭😭
5 -
That strikes me as confirmation bias. I doubt you were here monitoring the forums every day since the game's release, looking for people to be upset about heterosexual relationships.
And yes, if the roles were reversed, you'd see the exact same thing. If someone made a game that appeared to cater to LGBT fans and a group of straight people started complaining that their heterosexuality wasn't being fairly represented, that would also be playing identity politics. I have the feeling you would also be far less tolerant of their attitude as you expect others to be of yours.
2 -
I know what you mean, but I probably should have worded myself better... When I said plot I was referring to the overall lore of the character, the lore is that it is a demon that comes to those grieving. He is only confirmed pan outside of the series by the creators. Yes they get to make the monsters whatever they want, but that's not true representation imo. That's slapping a label on the yogurt to sell it better to the market. Atleast thats how I see it. It's not the same as him happening to be pan and confirmed via lore as we discussed before. Unless I am mistaken? Then please correct me.
0 -
It's honestly quite disappointing that we still don't have a playable queer character, especially since the RE chapter won't be changing that. Hopefully soon!
4 -
As far as I was concerned we did, I simply tried to help Orion understand that a user wasn't trying to specifically attack LGBT qualities as a negative thing but he or she seems to want to fight about the subject so we keep spinning our wheels. You've been fine, I have no issue with you. As for me, nothing I've said is new. I just keep getting mocked for it. Not only has my tolerance and integrity been questioned, so now is my ethnicity and sexuality up for criticism.
1 -
OK good I was getting worried
4 -
In all seriousness if I've said something that bothers you, by all means tell me. You're respecting me enough to speak to me without sarcasm and spite, I will gladly do the same in return. I'm not here to insult anybody.
2 -
They should've had Nea's friend be her girlfriend in her rift lore like how they gave David a girlfriend in his rift lore. Plenty assume she's a lesbian and simple change of "her girlfriend" instead of "her friend" would've been start to official lgbt+ representation in the game. At this point lgbt+ won't get an original character for representation until at least the fall. Longer they wait to "get it right" the more critical people will be that it's taken so long to do. To me doing it right would be including it in their lore like they would a straight character, just mention the relationship status not making a big deal out of it because lgbt+ should be treated same. Have a feeling though that "get it right" means it's going to be their entire identity/focus of their lore - which if those in lgbt+ are happy with that then it's good but it's probably what's taking them so long to finally include lgbt+ representation.
3 -
Or cis, white, heterosexual men.
That's not an insult. 3/4 of those things can be applied to me. It's no more offensive than calling me bisexual. It's accurate. Just for the record, though, I didn't call you any of those things, I just commented that nobody cries "IDENTITY POLITICS" when it comes to characters with those traits.
You can claim that "identity politics" has a specific meaning, but it only ever seems to be used as an excuse against inclusion; i.e.: to be divisive. Who's more divisive? The people asking for everyone to be included, or the people asking for some to be excluded on purpose?
I've said about 30 times in this thread that I'm completely open to any character of any sexuality or ethnicity being in this game.
I've heard that one before, usually followed by a "but" and an excuse for why LGBT characters shouldn't be included.
I've also pointed out that what I disagree with is the aggressive insistence that if it doesn't happen, it's somehow a form of persecution.
The devs said they were purposefully excluding LGBT lore. Are you saying they were lying?
I've also noticed that this is now the second time my own color, sexuality or personal philosophies have been insulted despite the fact that I've done no such thing to anyone else here for theirs.
I didn't know (nor do I care) about any of those characteristics. For me, you're a username+avatar, and I hardly look at the former. You have no characteristics except those you convey through your actions (writing).
That strikes me as confirmation bias. I doubt you were here monitoring the forums every day since the game's release, looking for people to be upset about heterosexual relationships.
I have the highest post count on the forum. Make of that what you will.
And yes, if the roles were reversed, you'd see the exact same thing.
It's OK to speculate, but at least admit it is speculation. Or do you have some real examples of what you claim?
5 -
Aside from the person who briefly appeared and blatantly denied an interest in having LGBT people in the game, who else is calling for their exclusion? Who are the people that are persecuting you? Who here has said "No, I absolutely would quit playing this game if there were gay people in it"?
I had the highest post count at THQ. It didn't make me any more special than you are.
I don't need proof to offer a belief. I said that I believe you would be just as intolerant of straight people wanting their heterosexuality to have "equal representation" in a LGBT game as you claim others are being about your own desire for "inclusion" in this one. I stand by my belief. If I'm wrong, so be it. Like myself, you're nothing more than words, and that's what I have to go by.
I was shown the dev's comment on the matter, I don't recall them saying that they deliberately avoided LGBT sexuality specifically because they were uncomfortable with it or in any way found it negative or unpleasant. If I missed that part, you're free to show me. What I saw was "we wanted people to make up their own minds" which, I'm sorry, is not at all the same thing. You seem to have a habit of inferring attacks where there are none.
And yes, as long as someone takes a shaming or otherwise aggressive stance about something I may happen to otherwise agree with, there will always be a "but". I can agree with the end result of what you want without agreeing with the way that you're going about it.
0 -
Like I said, I don't think we will agree on that topic but I will still try to explain my point a bit more.
There are three reasons why I wouldn't seperate having a negative opinion from persecuting something.
1. Words alone can hurt. I know you can argue about that to a certain point "was this opinion insulting or is the other person just too sensitive" but in my opinion there is a clear line. If you deny someone the legitimacy to live there life you are insulting them. To me there is no arguing that, but like I said that is an opinion that is definitely culturally influenced.
2. There is an escalation process. Many people that killed or hurt people of a specific group talked bad about them beforehand, for example in online forums etc.
3. Your words might lead to other people persecuting. I do not have an optimal example so I'll go with the attack on the capitol. All the politicians who told the election manipulation story are atleast partially responsible for it even though they themselves did not take part in the attack. I know it's not a perfect example because there was already an explosive atmosphere in the US and other things like conspiracy theories had also an impact, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
About your friend: I'm sorry for using such extreme examples but there were nazi generals who were lovely to there families and still did terrible things. What I'm trying to say is, you are right people are not onedimensional, but being a good person in some things doesn't stop you from being a horrible person in other things, so I would be wary about a every person who is saying hateful stuff, unrelating to their behaviour outside that situation.
I get what you are trying to say with the personal upbringing but I think in this day and age it's only an explaination to a certain point because there are ways to inform you outside of the bubble. Also, like I said, I believe, if something escalates and hateful words led to hateful actions, can upbringing really excuse that?
To add a personal story: I was raised christian, my parents were active in the christian community and went to the children's church every sunday. My mom was raised christian aswell, in the firm believe that being gay is wrong because the bible says so. She still believes that (sadly) but isn't oppsed to same sex marriage because she thinks if two people care for eachother they should get the legal benefits just like heterosexuell couples. She would also never post mean things about gay people or threat them disrespectful. But she also takes the thing with "love your neighbor like yourself" and "don't jugde other people unless you are without sin" really seriously. What I'm trying to say is, my mother believes what she believes based on how she was raised and I can't change that, even though I try. But she is also able to see things not just black and white. And since the bible especially mentioned that you shouldn't be judgemental I can't help but feel, that some Christians are massive hypokrits.
What I'm trying to say is: I believe that you should have no right to be hateful to others and that hateful words can led to hateful actions so I find hateful speach hard to excuse even if it is related to your upbringing.
You have a very different perspective and we will likely not agree, and that is okay.
3 -
You haven't been here long enough to know about this, but this isn't the first LGBT thread. A lot of ######### acting exactly like you described (or worse) have been banned, and they often used the same talking points before taking off their masks and saying what they really thought.
4 -
Not to minimize your points with a brief summary in return, but I need to focus on something in particular: First, do remember that I don't approve of my friend's comments (nor many things about him, for that matter, though he has a good side as well as a repulsive one). My argument was not that he should be free to speak hateful things to people, because that would fall under the umbrella of using his hate to harm others. If, to use a different example, I had a friend or family member tell me that they hated Jews, or Hispanics, or whomever else, I wouldn't immediately turn my back on them. I would ask them why, try to understand things from their perspective. If I felt that there was any room for reasonable discourse, I might also point out where I felt they were being wrong or unfair. But at the end of the day, if I knew that he kept his hateful thoughts on the inside and didn't outwardly treat anyone differently, I feel that it wouldn't be my place to try to convince him to change who he is. He has a right to be who he is, and feel how he feels, based on his own personal life experiences. No one should be required to think a certain way just because it's popular, or because more people think it's wrong than right.
That said, yes, if I knew that someone was openly acting in such a fashion, we'd have words. The Christian friend and I have had words, I assure you. A great very many words.
0 -
There’s no reasonable discourse to be had around why someone thinks discrimination is okay.
6 -
Mods also tend to watch these posts very closely and delete comments as quickly as possible. I remember previous post before All Kill where there were bunch of comments that were pretty bad that mods deleted. Those active in the thread had seen them but people would hop in going "no one is saying horrible things" because they didn't see the comments before the mods deleted them.
4 -
As well it sounds like they should have been.
My point is, what does that have to do with anyone here? Am I being that #########? Am I saying that the LGBT community disgusts me and that I wouldn't play the game if it included such characters? Did the person who provided the example of a black person being stereotyped when he was included in the other game?
I'm going to be frank: You sound as if, clearly, you are part of the LGBT community (this may or may not be obvious but I don't want to speak in an authoritative way about people I don't know). If so, that's perfectly fine. It also sounds like you've dealt with people who have made such things, if they are true, very unpleasant for you. If so I'm legitimately sorry to hear that. I don't approve of such things, regardless of how my comments in this thread have apparently been misconstrued.
What I don't understand is, what has been said in this thread that makes you feel that you and / or your preferences, should they be what they seem, are under attack? From what I can tell the vast majority of this thread, including myself, AGREES with you, and the few people who have voiced any concern whatsoever have been met with what strikes me as a lot less tolerance than you want to be shown to yourself. Why?
0 -
i can definitely confirm there have been countless nasty comments/users that behaved exactly like you have described.
5 -
40+ survivors and killers later and no queer characters yet is a completely valid reason to be upset. Our desire to be represented has no negative impact on straight people, so there should be no disagreement.
6 -
I've known enough people to not judge them on their worst act. It kind of astounds me how much people seem to think that everyone has the same worldview, lived the same lives, had the same experiences, agrees on the same things, were treated equitably by the same people, never had to deal with being harmed by someone unlike themselves, etc.
Is discrimination bad? Sure. So is trying to tell others that they have to subscribe to your own set of morals to be a worthy human being in your eyes. I've met enough people in my life to have learned not to judge them solely by their worst features.
1 -
I don't have the time or patience to catch up the two hundred or so posts that have happened since I first weighed in on this topic. I stated at the start that I prefer the sexual preferences of the various Killers and Survivors to be left blank so anyone and everyone can fill in the blanks as they see fit. It doesn't seem particularly relevant to the game or even the Lore for that matter. The entity doesn't care about sexual preference, nor do the Killers. If anything a pretty good number of both roles are asexual, i.e. their sexual identity is less important to them than what kind of coffee they drink. Consider Jake, a guy so anti-social he dropped off the map and went into the wild solo in the Lore. Clearly sexuality is not his top priority. Myers is a human body inhabited by pure evil that simply kills for its own unknowable reasons, and sexuality doesn't come into it. Over and over again in the Lore we see the subject skirted because most of these people are driven by other things near and dear to them. Do you see the point I'm making? I think this was a wise choice on the part of BEhavior originally, and I wish they had never veered at all because we wouldn't even be having this conversation otherwise. What is more, they barely veered at all.
I want to stress that I think bigots are the lowest form of human life. I think our individual value should be determined by fiat, ourselves alone. The demons of external validation are always a work, and we would all do better to immunize ourselves against them. It is because I think personal preferences are just that.... PERSONAL... that I prefer those fill in the blanks on our fictional people. I think it being fill in the blank illustrates better that things like ethnicity, sexual preference, religion, etc. are not an appropriate way to judge people. Left as blanks, it means they are taken out of the equation entirely and shown to be false measures. People are who they are and none of us should care nor be chiming in. Sadly, this has now become another issue and the blanks are going to get filled in. Many of you are too young to remember when the movie Basic Instinct was released. I am using it for my next example because it is about a Killer. It was a smart, edgy movie that illustrated that there are sociopaths out there. What was innovative for the film was that the Killer was not only a woman, she was also Bisexual (or a Lesbian). Her sexuality wasn't the cause of her dark behavior; it was the least important thing about her.... and yet....
There was a HUGE explosion of unhappy people who stated how offended they were that the Killer was Bisexual/Lesbian because it implied that all such people are deviant sociopaths. The movie didn't say this of course, but that was the rallying cry. Do you see where I'm going with this? So let's fast forward back to Dead by Daylight. If we are going to fill in the blanks now, and make sexual preferences a more important part of the Lore, how much representation will be required? I'm not asking that to be an ass; it is an important question. If they just throw in one Survivor and one Killer from under the LGBQT umbrella... won't that just be tokenism? Which types that fall under that umbrella will be represented? Or will we need a Killer and Survivor of each? We can't just have Killers of each because that would imply that everyone under the LGBQT umbrella is a murdering psycho. Do you see why I think this is one big can of worms. There is no win scenario here, only a furthering of our own group focus on something that is largely personal.
I want to comment on something personal now, which I don't generally do. I am a strong believer that personal preferences are... well... PERSONAL. I don't think any of you really care what I desire, believe, or want out of life. You have enough to do with your own goals and ambitions. Even so, I'm going to make this one time exception to talk about something personal because I think it pertains to this issue. I am not a Christian; I am a Pagan. You wouldn't know it by looking at me. Nothing about how I act or dress would imply it. I'm just your average, everyday person going about his business in the world. To know that my religious beliefs are part of a minority, you would have to ask. But here is the rub, I'm not hiding in the so-called "broom closet" or any such nonsense. I just don't feel the need to put my personal beliefs on display. I don't begrudge others their desire to be louder, but I personally just don't see the point. I'm not asking for representation among the Survivors, the Killers, or demanding the entity be defined in some sort of religious context that validates my own cosmology. Do you see where I'm going with this? If I want (and choose) I can easily apply my beliefs to the blanks that the various fictional characters provide. Because these things are not addressed, I can assume whatever I want. Ironically enough, I assume most people who know me in real life apply such assumptions to me and it is no skin off my nose.
A lot of people have chimed in on this subject, and it quickly became heated. That is unfortunate. While I understand that a lot of people don't feel represented, I have to ask how it can be done that you won't feel it is just a token? How much will be enough? Will we all agree when we can't agree on anything. Will the time and labor it takes to fill in the blanks here be well spent when it will be contending with the time and labor the DEV could be spending on addressing all those annoying bugs, exploits, optimization, balance, and so on that we constantly scream about? I'm asking these questions because they need to be asked. What will we be gaining (if anything) and what will we be giving up to gain it? I want to end on a less serious note, what does Nea secretly being the Entity say about this whole debate?
4 -
Lmao did you really just say that discrimination and calling out people for being racist/homophobic etc are on the same level?
3 -
No that's fine, trust me, I completely believe both of you. All I need to do is turn on the television or walk outside my house to believe that this is true.
While it's far less than it was when I was young (I wager there's a good chance that I was around a little while before a lot of others here were), there is undoubtedly still hatred, bigotry and persecution of gay and trans (etc.) people all over the world. I don't like it, I've done my part to change it, and I rejoiced when my country finally caught up to the rest of the world in agreeing that there is (in my opinion) nothing wrong with people of the same gender having romantic, fulfilling partnerships.
That said, I just don't know how or why this thread became so defensive, so fast. I don't know why the default attitude seems to be "tolerate us or you're an intolerant #########". I guess I just don't understand the aggression.
0 -
I will say in support of Mooks and Orion that the mods watch these threads like a Hawk (speaking from personal experience here lol) and they're incredibly quick on the draw. All power to them, homophobia/biphobia/transphobic shouldn't ever be tolerated. But by now a lot of bigoted people have learned their lesson and just stay quiet, or come with the argument of "It doesn't belong in the game." There's always, always, always a but, which is why I was so hostile to you at the start because from my own experience I was waiting for the "I don't care about it but I don't think it belongs in DBD and I'd quit if it were introduced."
I've seen it too many times, so sorry for thinking you'd be the same lol.
I think me, you, Mook, and Orion are all arguing for the same thing, though, just in different ways. Lgbtq+ representation done right to give us equal status to heterosexual relationships and characters. Do correct me if I'm wrong but I think we all want the same thing here.
So, yeah, while you may not see them in this thread, believe me when I say there are plenty.
4 -
You're conflating.
0 -
Am I conflating the fact that you said telling other people that discrimination is bad? Queer people and other minorities are tired of having to fight for equality. We’ve made the same arguments 1000s of times, and change has not happened quick enough. You must understand that when you make arguments like this, you are not helping us progress forwards. There is no room for bigots, and even in a game like DBD, representation does matter.
Please reflect on what you are saying
5 -
I don't wanna go and respond to all of this because it's pretty well written but also pretty long so I'll vibe with this one section.
"I have to ask how it can be done that you won't feel it is just a token? How much will be enough?"
In my opinion, not much has to be done. Take David King's lore for example, a place where a heterosexual relationship can be found. "He can't go to his ex, she doesn't want to see his face" or something along those lines. All they'd have to do is change "She" to "He". It's not a big deal. It's a throwaway line showing how alone he is. But we're it he, it'd also be a representation of a homosexual relationship in the lore.
And that's all we really want, from speaking to people. Or, most of us anyway. Equal status with heterosexual characters and relationships, even if there isn't as much. Just changing one simple pronoun.
NB people could easily be represented just by using they/them pronouns. Trans people is a topic I don't feel educated well enough on to discuss so I'll leave it to actual transgender people to talk about how best to represent them.
It's nothing major that has to be done, just a single pronoun change can make a world of difference.
We wouldn't lose out on any Bugfixes because the lore team and development team are seperate. There's no opportunity cost here to having a character use they/them or date someone of the same gender in a one-off line in terms of game development.
5 -
Because I see the same patterns. These people make the same arguments, use the same talking points, post the same comments. So when you come here with a dog whistle like "identity politics" (which, as I said, is only ever used to prevent people from being treated the same as everyone else), I extrapolate from my years of dealing with these people and conclude that you're one of them.
If you're really not one of them, then I have two things to ask of you:
First, put yourself in our shoes for two seconds. Nobody says anything about heterosexual lore, for years. In fact, hardly anyone comments on the lore to begin with. No complaints about how sexuality "doesn't belong" in DbD, no complaints about having sexuality "shoved down our throats", nothing.
When the devs imply there will be non-heterosexual lore at some point in the future, suddenly everyone cares about the lore, the quality of the devs' writing, they complain about "identity politics" (see above), "political agendas" (another meaningless term), and so on.
The only difference is the lore (that they claim not to read nor care about) might include explicit references to non-heterosexuality. Are we supposed to conclude that their problem isn't LGBT characters?
In science, when you change one variable and your system doesn't change, you can say your system is independent of that variable. However, if you change one variable and the system changes completely, and this happens repeatedly, then you conclude that your system changed because you changed that variable. You don't think "Well, maybe the system isn't reacting to this change, maybe it's this other variable that stayed the same". That's unreasonable.
I know you're probably gonna want to say I'm calling everyone a bigot, but that's not the case. I'm saying that it definitely comes across as such when you (non-specific "you") only complain when it's about LGBT characters/lore.
Second, I want you to look at how the terms "identity politics", "political agenda", "personal agenda", and so on are used. Really look at the context, which things are being complained about under those terms and which are curiously left out. Then tell me if you don't see a certain pattern. Because I sure do, as does everyone else.
6 -
when they have a mod called Gay_myres I doubt the talk about LGBTQ+ issues is nothing more than a political stunt to please us.
I'm so done with it, If we get a LGBTQ+ character I want it only hinted at in lore and not be the characters only defining character, Sexuality does not define someone and if that is your own quality then..well, I feel sad for you.
It is a part of who I am, not what I am if that makes sense.
5 -
When people face rejection, humiliation, and a potential death sentence for one of their traits, most go two ways: try to suppress it as much as possible, or make it as prominent as possible. So yes, you should feel sad, because it usually means those people had to deal with ######### their whole lives.
6 -
100% Agree with this statement. Very well said. 🔥
3 -
I mean.. why are people coming here saying „I don’t care but leave LGBT out of my video games“ if they truly are tolerant? It’s only natural to get defensive when you get such offensive statements.
if people don’t care they could just ignore this discussion or the inclusion. But they do care and try to find excuses why it’s okay to be intolerant against LGBTQ+ when they clearly have no problems with heterosexuality mentioned everywhere. and believe me, no one of the people ever could give a valid argument for that. That point is where they get silent or insulting.
7 -
Well then we're all guilty of the same thing, which is being human. We're all shaped by our past experiences, we all bring a little of what we've learned and dealt with to the table.
Maybe Orion is just sensitive to the issue because he or she (apologies, I don't know) has dealt with a lot of such people and it really hurt, as I imagine it would, so the natural inclination is to assume that anyone who doesn't quite seem on board may be another such person. All I can do is keep saying I'm not, but I don't think most people here have listened. The post I just made about saying that discrimination is bad but so is judging other people solely on their worst acts was basically ignored to isolate one comment, take it out of context, change the words and make me look like an #########. All I can do at this point is shrug my shoulders and say "I feel I've been clear enough, if what I've said is still being interpreted as offensive that's no longer my responsibility to change".
You guys (and gals) have dealt with your share of toxic people who have bashed or otherwise made you feel like lesser people because of your sexuality. That's a shame. It shouldn't happen. I can try to understand it as much as I can but yes, as a straight white male, I haven't had the same struggles. I haven't been in the same position. But, as is only fair, some people like myself also ask for some understanding when they try to explain that the shoe has been on the other foot. There are people who have expressed a militant intolerance of intolerance. People who have, in fact, leveraged their ethnicity or religion or sexuality or gender or any other number of things to force their will upon those who may not have the same opinion, or at least not appreciate it being pushed upon them. Just as actual homophobes display rampant intolerance, so do those who have no patience for people who feel differently about things than themselves. I don't want to have someone call me a bigot for not wanting exclusively gay bathrooms any more than I want someone to call me a race-trader for saying that Denzel Washington is a good actor. I want to live my life and treat people the way I myself want to be treated, and I don't like anyone trying to aggressively push their will or attempt to shame me into accepting something without reasonable discussion. That's all, really.
At the end of the day we ARE arguing for the same side: I'm fine with LGBT characters being in the game. But I also understand and can appreciate the side that says "it's best to leave the whole hornet's nest alone and allow people to come up with their own stories". Neither of these viewpoints are inherently right or wrong, they're merely personal viewpoints. I don't understand why someone should be insulted or seen as some kind of enemy for appreciating the logic of both sides of the argument.
3 -
And I think that is where the BEhavior (the DEV) are headed so shortly this can be a non-issue. Some nagging part of me thinks that you and I, being rather moderate overall, will both be kind of surprised (and annoyed) when it doesn't become a non-issue once they do address it and throw that representation in. That cynical side of me can't help but feel (based on past experiences) that the issue will simply balloon more each time it gets addressed. Knock on wood, I hope that isn't the case. I'd like to be happily surprised. Time will tell.
1 -
way to take what i said and take it to the extreme, Nothing I mentioned has anything to do with those backward countries killing people for there sexuality. This is why I hate these discussions and people take it to the extremes to prove some point that was never implied.
Is it wrong to judge people and kill them based on their sexuality? OF COURSE no one has even said that was the case
I just find it sad that LGBTQ characters' only personality traits tend to be " HEY I'M GAY BTW!!"
An Apex character is a perfect example of diversity, I fail to remember his name but it mentions his boyfriend in lore, and the dude is a tank...litrelly. It was so refreshing.
2 -
I don't need to reflect, there is no basis for an argument here. You deliberately took one portion of my post (which I bent over backwards to write in a fair and polite way that someone wouldn't STILL take issue with) and changed the meaning of what I said. I did not say that discrimination and dictating another person's worldview are equal offenses (nor would I, as there is no empirical chart through which to quantify such a thing), I said that both are bad, and wrapped up my comment by explaining that I try to avoid seeing the worst in people. Some people make it more difficult than others.
0 -
I'd like it to just end good too. No song or dance. No marketing that they're gay. Literally just a couple of lines in their lore, like with David or Felix, maybe Nurse level where their SO plays a part but isn't the focus of their story. That's all most people want when they ask for representation and it shouldn't take anything away from the balancing.
Pressuring people leads to poorer quality, that's true, but it also shows that people still want it. The longer BHVR take to deliver the higher the expectations get until anything but perfect would be unacceptable to a lot and that's really not what I want to see happen.
7 -
Maybe I didn't explain myself properly. I was just explaining why some people might make the fact that they're LGBT a big part of their lives. Because for a lot of them, it is. Not intentionally, of course, but thanks to bigots who make their entire existence about sexuality and ignore the rest of the person.
4 -
Or, better yet, who cares?
It's not a game about sex. It's a game about murder. Keep it about murder.
Shit like this is why the devs aren't focusing enough on game balance.
2 -
I highly doubt the team who writes the lore has any say in the balance department.
8 -
That’s not true though?
we have plenty of backstory and lore of characters, including heterosexual relationships. Non of that is relevant for the game mechanics.
the People creating the lore are not the same that work on balancing, but fixing or new features. It doesn’t take away the focus of that stuff. At all.
6 -
The problem, as I see it, is that I seriously don't care at all about sexuality of any kind in this game. Which characters are gay and which are straight is something that would honestly never enter my mind. It's just not something I think about. Maybe that's unusual? I don't know. I just wanted a game where survivors tried to escape killers. When I first got it I had no idea how deep the lore went, and the fact that there are heterosexual relationships doesn't make the game any better or worse to me. I'm completely indifferent. To ME, it doesn't matter. It's a detail that does nothing to change my opinion of the game or its characters. So for that reason, them being gay really makes no difference to me. It's redundant information. If this were a dating simulator, as some have joked(?) then I would find the topic much more relevant. I can't speak for everyone else but that's why I'm not complaining about the heterosexuality in this game: I don't care about the heterosexuality, or any sexuality for that matter, in this game. That's not what the game is about to me. It's a level of detail that, for better or worse, I am honestly not concerned with.
I they want to make everyone in the game straight, fine. If they want to make everyone in the game gay and / or trans, fine. If they want to remove all mentions of sexuality, fine. Again, for ME, these are details that have no bearing on my enjoyment of the game which is why I, perhaps in contrast to the others who came before, don't say anything about the relationships. I just play the game and don't think about them. When I'm being killed by The Hillbilly he's an #########, not the innocent child who was fed through a wall. When I attack a teabagging player, I don't care whether I like the character that I'm playing as. I don't consider the finer details when I play. I just play. That doesn't mean that I'm "right", or "better", it's just why I don't put as much stock into the lore as some of the rest of you do. To me the lore is optional, it's garnish for the main meal.
0 -
That's not true?
This game is about sex now??
They actually listened on Twitter and added sex to DBD?
1 -
i really don't mean to be rude here but, uh...
yikes.
that's all i can really say to that. yikes.
no offence, but, yikes.
6 -
I don't know, I can't answer that because I'm not one of them. :)
0
