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Unique & Interesting Way to Get Around "Tunneling", Your Thoughts?
Comments
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I literally cannot win half my trials by going for 8 hook 0k games. Its just not possible, I play in the sweatiest time of day by necessity. Gens take 3 minutes on average if I let them. Or often if I don't let them.
I think the biggest issue here is the concept of "tunnelling" Vs actively and deliberately going for 12-hook trials. I also think tunnelling should be addressed, first by completely removing holding m1 to victory. Once that's out of the game, killers won't be forced to play like absolute arseholes against good teams, and maybe a system to prevent tunnelling can be implemented. Not this one though, this one is just "make everyone play Nurse/Oni".
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While the two may be different he was clear that any buff or nerf needs to be addressed in both sides unless it was to op. He clearly stated that if you read his post
And as for your distinction between a perk being a coded mechanic and a tactic, hate to break it to you but hook timers are also a coded mechanic, so is movement speed by the way your distinction between a coded mechanic perk and a coded mechanic tactic is meaningless. To illustrate the survivor use of ds was a tactic wherein they would purposefully get caught to trigger ds. This was addressed by changing the coded mechanic of the perk. Our discussion on addressing camping is the same, the tactic being addressed is camping the hook timer the coded mechanic.
I know in your mind camping is sme sore of holy tactic of the killer and I'm sure that the ds abuse was just something minor in your view because you like camping that much more but they both remain tactics that were addressed by altering the game's mechanica
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I don't really have much comment on your status as to being what amounts to a savant as Killer. As someone who plays within the Red Ranks almost exclusively, aside from when the weird MMR tests happen and let us all "taste the rainbow," I can assure you being able to give everyone three hooks 50% of the time is an astounding level of skill. I don't think the takeaway for you should be that Killers tunnel more than you thought, but rather that your stated abilities comes off as a rather impressive "flex" whether you know it or not. To put it in context, the Superstars of this game, Streamers like Otz and his ilk, don't manage metrics like that consistently.
The real "problem" isn't Tunneling or Camping per say but rather that a Player is bored and feeling left out. That is the nature of this game, something that we simply must accept. I think the real solution is something radical that doesn't require rebalancing the entire game. I think the person on the hook should end up in a game within a game. This isn't purely my idea, but rather something born of a discussion I had with someone else who made claims (and comments) very much like yours. Imagine if the following change was made:
- Stage-1 remains the same as it is now. The Survivor can sit on the hook and wait for his/her Teammates to save them or choose to try to unhook themselves at the risk of accelerating the arrival of the Entity and Stage-2.
- Stage-2 is fundamentally different. While everyone else sees the Survivor struggling on the hook, trying to hold off the Entity's talons, that Player is utterly unaware of the game in progress and is locked in a metaphysical battle with the Entity. That Player is now inside a game within a game. The simple Skill Checks are replaced by an intense, relatively difficult series of puzzles or perhaps even a fighting game, where the Survivor can attempt to earn additional time or even manage a tremendously difficult unhook. This would have the benefit of giving the Player something interesting to do, not just sit on the hook watching other people, and the ability to EARN that extra time (or even an escape) that you mention. This would address the REAL problem which is boredom or the feeling of impotence. The interesting thing is if/when you are unhooked by another Survivor before you fail inside this inner battle, you would be ripped away from the Entity's grasp and snapped back into perception of the main match which you rejoin.
- From a coding standpoint, a game within a game, something that only connects to the overall match in minimal way, would be less demanding on the code staff, as it does not really need to be intimately tied into the existing spaghetti code. I've been giving thought to the nature of this game within a game, but I'm not done with my own personal design suggestions yet. And to be honest, my ideas for that aspect of it are unimportant. I'm sure our large, imaginative Player base could come up with lots of things (and perhaps lots of radical little games within a game would be another facet as you never know what you will be doing in this personal battle with the Entity will entail).
My view is that right now we are all approaching this the wrong way, i.e. trying to find ways to balance (an impossible task) getting rid of time on the hook, when what we need to be doing is making the time on the hook more interesting.
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Please do not presume to assign motives to me. I'm a very direct, open person and if I have motives I state them. Your behavior is offensive when you do it, although I will grant you aren't aware of this because I'm not exactly rank in file in my reactions to things. I do not "like" Camping, Tunneling, or Slugging, or any tactic more or less than another. These things are merely tools and I have no attachment to them one way or another. What is important to me is Player agency exist and the option to use them exists. I actually utilize them infrequently as I like to set personal challenges to my play to keep it fresh. I don't do this for any false morality or artificial moray but simply for my own entertainment. The long and the short of it is you don't know the first thing about me, even after all our conversations. I still find this odd because I'm a fairly open book, and I state my biases up front.
I think Pulsar's choice of words was accidental and unfortunate. He used "compensation" when what he clearly was getting at was an overall game balance levy. You leapt upon his statement as if he was indicating that Killer Players require personal compensation for losing something to placate them, when he was in fact talking about avoiding having to rebalance the entire game around unintended consequences of the changes. The alteration to DS, for example, didn't alter game balance in any significant way. The only thing that has changed is some Players, who took it for doing objectives in the Killer's face, have stopped taking it. That turn of events is PLAYER driven, i.e. part of agency, and not because either side is forced into adapting to a new normal. Are you able to follow this?
You have an unfortunate habit of missing the forest for the trees. I've watched you do it at length in our debates, and I've been paying attention when you talk to others as well because I wanted to determine if this is a rhetorical ruse or simply because you are an overly literal person and "big picture" context is obscured from you. I'm still trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that is a "big picture" problem. Thus, when Pulsar used the word compensation, you used one (the most common) definition of the term and misunderstood him when he was (in context) talking about something else entirely.
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If you were here from the start of our conversation you would have seen that he had the opportunity to point out if his wording was in error. He did not, he stated clearly that the ds nerf would have also required a correspondence killer nerf, however exceptions were made depending on the overpoweredness involved. Do not speak for someone else by ignoring their posts and substitute your own thoughts for them.
As for your player agency issues it's funny to me how the player agency only seems to matter to you when it comes to killers. The players tactics involving the use if ds before the nerf that was taken away? Oh you say no that's OK some Players can't just sit in front of the killer doing their objective (very different from the killer sitting in front of the survivor doing their objective) sure some players build their survivor around it but that's OK when there agency was infringed in your mind becuase unlike killer tactic of camping....well it's not important becusde you said so.
You constsntanly refer to yourself as some sort of champion of player agency when it effects a killers methods of winning but somehow when survivor agency is effected and their method of winning is removed well now it's fine. How about you either actually argue for player agency instead of claiming you do, or just be honest and admit it's only killer players agency.
I'm curious if you going to ty and say that camping is so much more important to killers than anything a survivor does so it's OK to infringe on there agency.
Or maybe point out that you don't really use camping. Funny if you can manage just fine without camping it seems the game would be playable for other killers without it too no? Or are you just so much better than every other killer out there so o ly you can manage without jt
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Sounds like it could be a perk:
Survivor Perk: Self-Sacrifice
If you unhook a survivor in their struggle state, and you have not yet been hooked, you transfer one of your hook states to that survivor.
Only works once, but each survivor could theoretically transfer 1 state each to a single survivor and potentially give that person 6 hooks total to kill them, while all the others would be dead in 2 hooks.
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Haha no joke, that would actually be a really cool Perk idea !!! Even better because then it even takes up a Perk Slot for a Survivor so now it's even less overwhelming for the Killer to deal with since the Survivors are also losing out on a Perk slot, BUT it would be something really fun to run if you are running with SWF that are newer to the game or less skilled!
I think this would be a great addition to the game perhaps stated as a Perk like you mentioned, I wonder if people would still have as much of a problem with it then or not ^^
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A while back i suggested giving up your health stage to survivor on a hook as perk idea. It wouldn't be THAT op, when they would lose perk slot for that.
The true altruism - perk idea & 1 QoL change — Dead By Daylight
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Honestly, I like it! Creative idea, and I guess I'm not the first one to have thought of it! Cheers
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