How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to?
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While I agree with most of what you said, this part feels wrong:
"I will tell you what other killers mains have told me for a while now when I play bad/make bad decisions about something and that is "git guud"."
The reason is matchmaking... We all know that it's often broken. Are you really going to tell green rank killer that it's his fault that red rank survivors outplayed him? Or is it matchmaking fault? Do you think people shouldn't have fun until they spend hundreds of hours to git gud? I will disagree with that as long as we don't have SBMM turned on.
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So you were against any change that remove Survivor choice and forcing them into sub optimal play too right? Take ds nerf, I don't think player agency is something that can't be infringed on so can say it was a good idea to nerf ds since it made things more fun, but since you hate losing agency you must have been against it right? I mean there choice to use ds as a weapon was removed for Killer fun you must hate that.....or all that player agency is just fluff and you don't really care about it.?
As for me being camped I'd estimate I run into camping about 40 to 50 matches out of a hundred, but face camping out the gate maybe only 10 out of 100, most of the time it's after survivors are doing a couple gens. So since there's 4 survivors I'd guess I'm the one on the hook 25perxent of the time so 10 to 13 matches out of 100 I'm the one on the hook
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I'm just gonna assume this is sarcasm since the queue time issues are fairly well-documented
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And I will agree with you MMR is really REALLY off more than it is on. Also, with the current dilemma of rank reset problems I do not see this getting any better. I honestly don't know what they are going to do as there are literally thousand of people with the wrong rank right now. I would think just resetting everyone back to what they were before the reset is the only way?
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What isn't?
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I feel like that's a massive generalization.
Not only that, but you cannot play a 12-hook game when Survivors are as equally skilled as you are and you are good. Good Survivors can always destroy a good Killer, it's just mathematics at that point.
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Exactly, had a match last night with the usual suspect of camping Bubba! Asked him/her after they tunneled/camped two people before we got the last gen done and the game was over why? His answer to "fw". Really, that's it lol,,, you are that big of a douche that this is all you do lol?
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Ok
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But you cant have it both ways. You cant complain about the game mechanics for survivors and ignore the mechanics that killers use like tunneling and camping. The game doesn't tell you or dictate how you play, you do. It is your own bad game play that is to blame if you have to resort to tunneling or camping. And if you do it from the get up like so many Bubba's do than you aren't that good at the game and don't want to admit it.
Also, if this is true, why do I lose about 90 percent of games every single night if survivor play is so great? Not everything is the mythical SWF sweat team. I am a red rank survivor and choose my lobbies well or play with friends and we are pretty good however, Wraiths who cloak right next to the gen then tunnel and camp are there, Bubbas who flat out tunnel and camp are there, and I am not even talking about the Spirit or Nurses who are so OP it is crazy are there to win all the time.
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Ok
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Who says?
If you get the 4K you deserve it and are good enough to get it.
If you get the 4E you deserve it and are good enough to get it.
That's how I see it.
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I think you just agreed with me? If you are good and get that 4K great,,, and if you are good and your team gets the gens and out the gate because you are good even better. Its about the game play. Camping and tunneling are so lazy and more often so the result of bad decisions and a bad player who knows it but will never admit it.
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I don't agree.
It doesn't matter how you get it (so long as you aren't cheating). If you get it, you get it.
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Okay your one of those who gets at something no matter the cost,, okay good conversation brother I wish you well, you do you, no need to write back, I'm out. Have a good one.
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Correct. I enjoy getting 4K's and 4E's.
Wish you well too, have a good evening :)
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People are going to play however they like so long as it's within the rules to do so. If this is an issue I would suggest offline games against bots is a more suited game to play.
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Ok guys, this escalated a LITTLE bit here :D
I won´t repeat my intentional thread one more time since no one expect for one person here really cared for the idea.
Thanks for the Otzdarva video, i think it really will help me after a few seconds after the game.
Thank you for giving me ups and downs, if you "remove" camping or add other things to prevent it.
I will now simply take it as a "the killer is not good enough for me, so he camps and i´ll be fine with it."
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Step 1: remove player
Step 2: Add 4 AI survivors and killers
Step 3: Cry as the AI learns that tunneling and camping is a strong strategy
Step 4: Remove AI
Step 5: Repeat from step 2
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I will now simply take it as a "the killer is not good enough for me, so he camps and i´ll be fine with it."
That won't fix the problem because it's based on a faulty premise. Namely, that you losing and someone else winning makes them bad because they didn't do it in a way you like. You'll still be angry at killers using this strategy, trust me.
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I've always found it perplexing when survivors telling me that I'm a bad killer, despite managing to 4k at 4 or 5 gens.
A whole lot of projecting going on. On both sides.
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That's partly why there's so much frustration. They displace their faults onto others, but since that's not based on the reality of the situation, the problem doesn't get fixed. Since the problem doesn't get fixed, they become more frustrated.
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Make it so not doing it is more effective then doing it. Reward good behaviour instead of looking topunish bad ones.
For example decreased action speed for injured survivors and a action speed buff for every dead survivor encourages killer to spread damage and go for 8 hooks before starting to get survivors out the game.
Things like that
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Since they don´t chase me or playing like they would try to, i assume, they think they are too bad to go for chases.
What else should i do? I must not complain here and scream for changes, i must not try to not get angry as well? Is there anything in your opinion, what i could do instead? It was you or someone else here who said "get over it".
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Since they don´t chase me or playing like they would try to, i assume, they think they are too bad to go for chases.
You're projecting your preference onto them. Most often, people will do whatever they can to win, except cheating (and before you say cheaters exist, I'll just say again: most often). If that means camping you, that's what they'll do.
What else should i do? I must not complain here and scream for changes, i must not try to not get angry as well? Is there anything in your opinion, what i could do instead? It was you or someone else here who said "get over it".
Your need to portray the killer as the worse player, despite you being the one who lost, is quite common. What you must do is accept that if you constantly lose to this strategy, then the problem most likely lies with you, not the person using the strategy nor the strategy itself.
The first step is admitting you have a problem, as it were.
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I wish more players would understand they they are ultimately responsible for how well they do in any given match.
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How to decrease the amount of tunnelers and campers? It is really easy, just 2 points and its fine.
1 - Nerf Genrush, add new mechanics to slowdown the game, make an early Game protection, punish repairing if killer is not in chase, add Tanatophohia as a base mechanic.... There are some examples but the main idea is - Nerf gen speed, it is ridiculous. If Genrush is not a problem, I can play without the "Taking One survivor out of the Game faster" mindset and I dont Need to tunnel someone.
2 - Mark premades in lobbies, If survivors have the power to make me play as killer the map they want and the way they want, I should be able to avoid them if I know they are premade. Even bad SWF can destroy you, with discord and having a minimal aknowledge of the game, they Will rush killers and Killers must tunnel and camp.
See? Easy way to fix this problem
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" If Genrush is not a problem, I can play without the "Taking One survivor out of the Game faster" mindset and I dont Need to tunnel someone." - you don't, but others will. I've seen plenty of people who camp and tunnel right from the start. Some even continue doing after a DC.
Camping will be even more effective with slower gen speeds.
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If they slow the Game, they also must do something about that mechanic because is not necesary anymore.
The Big problems on DBD are the gens, because all spin around gens, if they fix the ridiculous speed, most of killer Will not Camp because they can Chase and play without using unfun strats.
And we could have better players, because now, like 70-80% of survivors are just a joke looping, is really easy to catch them when they are out of a strong loop, they eat 90% of double backs on LT walls and even in shacks, but is not something to worry about because even being noob at Chase, just dropping palets is enough to distract the killer and get 2-3 gens really fast.
For example, Puzzle maps, It takes around 2:30-3:00 minutes to drop all palets on the map One after another without looping, just pre drop and Full W, imagine looping 1 or 2 times before drop, is just GG for the killer and It takes Zero skill, slowing gens, survivors must improve the palet efficiency and the Game Will be more fun for both sides.
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They already do decrease them. If you're as good as you think you are, you're gonna go up higher in ranks where there's the least amount of tunnelers and campers. At red ranks, killers only win by tunneling and camping if the survivors deliberately let them.
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This! Because why stop camping, when the survivors will do less gens with decreased gen speed. I think it will bring out more campers, they can simply sit out the game, waiting for one survivor die after another.
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The Survivor Main mentality; Remove camping, slugging, and tunneling. Literally remove the Killer's ability to apply pressure & win. But gen speeds are fine.
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You know you can completely turn this dumb ######### around on killers who cry about every surv mechanic?
Why are you so toxic about this? it was just a premonition, what could happen when you decrease gen speed.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Because I don't see Killers crying that Survivors should be punished with teleporting generators or losing BP if they hit too many skillchecks.
Because I've had Survivors literally say it's my fault if Survivors DC against me. Like I somehow magically control their minds & make them pull the plug.
Because I've watched Survivors cry about every mechanic & tool Killers have at their disposal (tactics, Killers, perks like NoED), then act like they are the victims here.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
Every game now has an obsession so there nothing they can do now, if a killer camps he get a penalty on points, if you DC or suicide on hook you are rewarding the killer ( unless your teammates insist on saving you).
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If the devs wanted to prevent camping and tunneling it would require an overhaul of the game. Here here are my ideas. Sorry if this has been said already, I haven't read the entire thread!
Idea 1. Get rid of hooks and make 'hooking' a survivor like PH cages.
This idea isn't perfect but at least the survivor is teleported away from the killer to help prevent camping. The devs could make cool unique cages for each killer. Dr could have an electric chair, Hag could have a evil looking tree, Demo could have something like in the series in the upside down, etc.
Downside is the pick up and wiggle mechanic would become obsolete and there are a lot of perks dedicated to it.
Idea 2. When a survivor gets hooked they go to another realm with the hook. Fellow survivors can enter the realm by a portal mechanic to go unhook their friend. Once they are unhooked they return to game (random location). The portals are random around the map and only survivors can see them.
Upsides to this would be:
- no way for killer to camp or tunnel off hook. It wouldn't stop them from seeking out the unhooked survivor but at least it would be more difficult.
- this new method would also keep survivors off gens for awhile which would give the killer time to regress them or get into a chase with another survivor.
- Some perks would need to be altered but I think most perks would remain the same with this change?
Anyways those are just 2 ideas to cutting down camping and tunneling.
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Yeah if you only play killer, you will only find whiny survs, thats true.
First of all, i never meant to cry about tunneling and camping in this thread. i was asking, how devs could change the game to decrease it, but you guys don´t read threads correctly, you only see the "crying" part in it.
So i won´t discuss with you, because you clearly only play one side (which is perfectly fine). I play 80% survivor, i know i am more survivor sided on my discussions, but at least i can admit, that there are a lot of crybabies on survivor side.
Also only because you upvote your posts doesen´t mean, that you are right, you know?
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'Also only because you upvote your posts doesen´t mean, that you are right, you know?'
Did you accuse me of upvoting my own posts? Because people can't upvote their own posts on here. But grats on accusing me of something I can't actually do. That's up there with the person who said it's my fault as Killer if Survivors DC.
And if other people upvote my posts, it's clear they agree with me.
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By giving survivors more built in options that promote more fair scenarios.
To me if you want my honest opinion, if a killer is just facecamping, they are not playing the game. So if everybody else is holding M1 on a generator for the entirety of the time they are refusing to leave hook, the survivor on hook should automatically be given more attempts to escape the hook.
I don't care how much of a "strat" they want to advertise it as, that isn't playing the game to me... and if you think it is, it is a very boring one at that.
The simple fact is that many treat "Looking into how to rework camping" as "removing it" when it is in fact not that. I hate that this is also the mentality the devs seem to have from what I have gathered from their streams.
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If all killers worked like pyramid head, basically remove all hooks and have the killer send you to a random location on the map will end all tunnelers/campers in my opinion...
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Well... this is the hardest thing you will ever do... but it is the right thing to do. You have to accept that the Killer who just won is better than you. You have to take responsibility for the loss, own it. You have to embrace the notion that those tactics (whatever they may be) are part of the game and that YOU must adapt and find a way around them rather than trying to judge them or make excuses for them. I've been there, and I completely understand where you are at right now.
I am being direct with you. I did not get better at this game until I took that very hard, unfun step of introspection and honesty. It hurts but think of it like jumping into cold water and swimming in a river. It is only ice cold for a moment before you adapt. Then you can enjoy the fun of it. We like to think of ourselves as great and anything that goes wrong comes from outside, but this self defense mechanism only protects the ego, it doesn't help you excel. Hence...
Our eyes are politicians, telling us only what we want to hear.
They begin each day in consultation, whispering lies,
Embellishing facts, adding spin to each truth the mirror reveals.
The day is a minefield of honesty, which the eyes must traverse.
Each step of rocky, broken ground, warrants caution,
Needs mapping, to become part of the larger, safer lie.
Myself, I am a welfare child, whom the eyes valiantly protect.
I end each day contented, in a dream with all promises kept.
I see no harm in that.
I apologize for the detour into poetry but sometimes people understand metaphor better than they they do direct statements. You are going to have to decide which is more important to you, ego or getting better at the game. There is no other way to say it. All things come at a price, and competitive ventures (all of them) demand a sacrifice. It is usually ego. You have to accept that you aren't good, you aren't even competent. Other people are better than you. Only by sacrificing your ego and ending the self delusion you use to protect it, can you make progress. You cannot build a castle on a foundation of sand. The good news is that one day, when you have become truly good at the game, your ego will rise again, but at least this time it will be based on fact and not scapegoating.
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Wait you're the guy that posted on my thread!
The fact that anyone has 'tunneling and camping are fine' as an opinion is insane to me.
Camping is unfun in every game, and shouldn't be in any game.
That's objective.
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It would only be "objective" if the universe revolves around you. It is YOUR "objective" truth. Are you one of those people who believes the world began when you opened your eyes, and it will all end when you close them again? I hate to break it to you champ, but there are other people in the world and they are "real" not just figments of your imagination. They have thoughts and opinions running around in their minds too. And shocking though it may be, many of them may not agree with you. :)
I, for example, think tunneling and camping are fine, just tactics and one more obstacle I have to work around as a Player. To me, the fun is in the challenge. I assure you that I am 100% sane. Since my objective truth is different from yours, I have just proven that NEITHER of our truths is objective. Are you able to follow. The mere existence of you and I proves that our respective truths are "SUBJECTIVE."
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Please leave me alone, the fact that we've previously interacted and you replied with this large of a paragraph so quickly after me posting 7 minutes ago is unnerving as heck.
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Oh i´m a bit late for this discussion. I´d say killers would camp&tunnel less if they wouldn´t feel so pressured into doing so.
Most of the matches 2 or 3 gens are finished by the time the killer gets his first hook. So survivors completed 40 or 60% of their objective, while the killer completed 8% of his objective. Is it surprising, that the killer now wants to secure the kill or even out the numbers?
If we see the gens as killer "lives" then killers can also claim that survivors camp&tunnel gens. Or show me the survivor who ignores a 80% completed but regressing gen. To go for a fresh one. No one does that. Survivors will even avoid to heal and repair that gen in the killers face.
Survivors can´t really blame the killer for camping&tunneling when they do the same to gens.
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You have a choice, keep your thoughts to yourself or put them up on the Forum. If you post here, people may respond. That is the chance you take. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You might look up the definition of the word "forum" as I suspect that will help you understand this place a little better.
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I never said people can't response....
It's the fact that we've interacted previously in a not so favourable fashion and you insta-replied to my post when you know I don't want to interact with you.
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I could care less what you want. Your posts on the Forum are open for responses from anyone. You have a 100% foolproof way of making sure you never interact with me; don't post. I'm not going to respond to everything you say. If you make good arguments, I'll either say "good one," or say nothing at all as my chiming in would not be required. If you make incorrect statements, or rather assertions I do not agree with, I'm going to speak up. You are in the WRONG place if you think you get to decide who gets to respond to your ideas.
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I mean, I feel like the site having a block option would help.
The fact that you are telling me to not post is horrible.
Because I don't want to interact with one person, but still want to show me agreeance with people and state my opinions, I should just never post?
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Does it matter if he tells you not to post?
he gets a bit toxic when he's positing just ignore that parts of his post and focus only on the substance of what he says.
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Yeah, you could simply choose NOT to read my post. Your block is achieved. If you feel you have nothing of value to get from me, just skip them. I may not be responding to you expecting YOU to get anything from my posts. I might simply be responding because I know other people might.
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