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How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to?
Comments
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No, I'm talking about where I suggest a game within a game, for the Survivor on the hook. Hrm. I wonder if that was in another thread.
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It definitely isn't the most frustrating for Survivors.
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No you posted it here, i saw it and i liked the idea. Would love such thing but i guess it wouldn´t make the killer not camp and tunnel anymore. But it would make the game more fun for the camped person, that´s true.
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Except that isn't how a Forum works. This place isn't where you come for pity parties. :) You post, you should support what you post with evidence, and be prepared for people to disagree with you and demonstrate why you are wrong. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. :)
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what is it then in your opinion? For me, getting tunneled out of the game is very frustrating, if it happens over and over again. Getting out of this sort of grab from the killer is nice too, but you don´t get out of it that often without any loss.
Things, that i can´t control in the game can get very frustrating to me. if i just suck in the game, thats my problem, i will continue and work on it. But i can´t control a camping and tunneling killer.
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Getting facecamped. Getting slugged for 4 minutes. Forever Freddy. Forever Legion. Forever Plague. 4 man slugging Nurse.
I can keep going.
Being tunneled at least gives you a chase, if you are good enough.
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And in chases you can escape
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Something worth pointing out, the developers actually did make a change to decrease the chances of someone being tunnelled - they made it so there is always an obsession every match
You might not think it's a big deal, but it really makes a huge difference and they must've realised after the DS nerf - Some Killers must've went straight to hard tunnelling when there was no obsession (Some people did it anyway)
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Each person decided on his own which opinions carry weight and which don't. Just because you adopted your own scale of measuring opinions, doesn't mean that it's correct one. For example, on my scale, your opinion has same weight as vacuum. Feel free to prove me wrong by adding references to research articles.
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I think of it in a logical way.
I, myself, know some medical knowledge. I spent a lot of my football career helping my friends with injuries. But who are you going to listen to, me who has maybe 200 hours of actual experience in medicine or a doctor who has put YEARS into the practice.
It's the doctor, no question. He has experience and knowledge that someone with my experience level doesn't have. I know some basic things, and they are likely somewhat correct, but the person who spent a decade learning this stuff probably has a better understanding of how to help.
That's how I look at it.
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Doesn't help that a lot of people can't really agree on the definitions of what things like 'Tunnelling' and 'Camping' actually are
They've become vague umbrella-terms
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Well, I don't know if it's obvious, but this is not your kitchen, so you don't get to tell me what to do and what not to do. See, I don't owe you anything and I'm not sure why you have that attitude that you can tell why people should come here. If I want to come here for a pity party, I will. If I don't feel like giving evidence to someone I don't like, I will not. Maybe tone down your demands? Or don't. I don't care either way.
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Yeah. Tunneling to me is like going after the same person that just got off the hook while ignoring everything else that is/might be going on. Face-camping is well I don't think i need to explain that one do I.
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What bothers me is how much of a taboo some people make out certain things to be
Like camping all game round is unpleasant, but it's not the same as a killer camping someone to death when all the gens are done and both exit gates being far away
I don't know if it's entitlement or what but when people treat them like they are the same thing, it bothers me
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I will certainly not listen to the one who makes basic Appeal to Authority fallacy. That's taught in first year university courses:
Also, if we are going to make fallacies: did you know that I'm President and sole proprietor of Game Balancing and Player Satisfaction institute? See, that title makes my opinion more important than yours.
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Nobody says you can't come have all the pity parties you want, but remember they are not exclusive and you don't get to tell us to leave. Don't assume you are going to get any sympathy because chances are you won't.
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"This place isn't where you come for pity parties." - you
"Nobody says you can't come have all the pity parties" - also you
"Don't assume you are going to get any sympathy because chances are you won't." - don't assume I assume anything. The chance are (100%) I don't care about your sympathy.
I want to ask you a favor. Could you please stop thread crapping?
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Problem your going to run into when looking for how devs could fix the game is alot of killer mains will run in quickly coming up with excuses to keep camping in becuase it's currently a good strat and they don't want to loose it.
Often times it's something along the lines of just don't get caught (forgetting the game is designed to have killers catch survivors multiple times in a match) or just do gens (somehow that helps the hooked survovor) or the one me and thus other guy keep getting into, don't take away camping becusse taking away there choice to use any tactic is inheritantly wrong (although it's fine if you want to limit survivor tactics for some reason that is ok)
As for addressing camping it's easy thendevs could either stop hook progression when the killer is near the hook and not in a chase, or you could double the base hook time and then make it go faster the further the killer is away from the hooked survivor.
Also be prepared for a number of killer mains to post that won't work becuase it would be an abuse if the killer can't hook when 5hey want. They usually dress it up by giving a scenario where the survivors are doing something (trying to bait the killer away from the hook, doing a gen, or standing in a corner) and the killer wouldn't want to leave the hook but they would be forced to if they wanted to win and thats just not fair
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I did not say that you should listen to me.
I said that I more inclined to listen to others if they have credentials to back it up.
But hey, if you don't listen to doctors, that's not my problem.
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There you go! Wxnickxw has arrived and you and he are "kindred spirits" so I'll be kind and let you guys commiserate about all the indignities you suffer at the hand of DbD and Killers and everything else that is so unfair to you. :) You don't have to worry about him telling you to take ownership of your problems or practice or stop blaming others for your own failures. He will echo every sentiment you have issued so far. Knock yourselves out!
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How many times do you get camped in, say, 100 games?
I'd bet that it's probably about the same amount of times Killers actually go against a 4-man Red Rank SWF. (ie not often)
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Oh look; another salty Survivor screeching to hobble Killers because they don't approve of how the Killer wins.
And they will continue to throw out 'It's not fun for the camped Survivor!' while also ignoring that it's not fun for the Killer if he loses matches because the game punishes him for trying his hardest to win.
But go on with your little screeching, folks. I know @wxnickxw will continue to ignore all logic in order to pretend his solutions are universally loved, while saying Killers ONLY defend camping 'because it works'.
I mean, that totally ignores that Survivors MAKE IT WORK, because they are sublimely convinced Killers defend camping for easy wins. Not because it can't really be punished without taking away player agency & making Killers leave in droves as they game becomes incredibly lopsided.
If you punish camping, and force Killers to give up free unhooks though any of the myriad of stupid ways Survivors suggest, while not looking at gen speeds; Killers will straight up quit as it becomes almost impossible to win.
I've pointed it out before, but certain Survivors seem hellbent on ignoring it; It takes Killers twice as long to 12 hook everyone (roughly 12 minutes) as it does for ONE Survivor, ALONE, to do ONE GEN AT A TIME with NO ITEMS (Which is 6.66 minutes, btw).
But y'all go on with how camping is 'unfun' because you lost your last match. It's pitifully obvious you just want free unhooks & want easy wins by hobbling Killers.
But keep stomping your feet and screaming like toddlers instead of...oh, I don't know...getting gud.
It's never Survivor's faults. Killers are evil for camping. Killers are evil for slugging. Killers are evil for tunneling. They should never actually attempt to win unless Survivors say it's okay!
And for the vaguely-defined 'fun' of Survivors, Killers should not be allowed to do any of those things. Only Survivors are allowed to try to win! Killers are just here for Survivors to bully! So punish camping now! Make them lose BP! Ban them! If they don't 12 hook, their accounts should be deleted!
Survivors get SWF, meta perks, items, and voice comms! But Killers don't get to try to win unless Survivors approve of how!
How DARE Killers actually KILL people!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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And I didn't say that you said I should listen to you. What do doctors have to do with random message board posters like yourself? You want to continue thread crapping, be my guest, idgaf :)
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This is a good post, and an excellent suggestion. I do think a coded animation for someone on the hook that clearly says "I'M BEING CAMPED" and one that says "ALL CLEAR" would be a good idea, because the arm flopping thing doesn't work. Nobody seems to agree or understand which means which. A coded one that left no doubt, that would be perfect. :)
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Are you asking hiw many times I'm camped as in I'm the one on the hook or are you asking how many times I play against a camper?
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You were talking to Pulsar but I can help here. You need to learn to let go of the things you can't control and not let them tilt you. If you can't, this is the WRONG game for you. I'm not saying that to be mean. Otz has a video on it, and his credentials dwarf mine:
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Just real quick you could you clarify if your saying camping is the only way for a killer to win because some of your post seems to indicate you do but other parts don't. a lot of killers are saying it's something they don't bother with becuase there are other ways to play but I cant tell from your post which side your on, so if you clarify your stance I'll respond.
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I'm also happy you've got Pulsar who will echo every sentiment of yours. You make such a good lovely couple. When is your anniversary? You fit together so well :) I hope you two have long and joyous thread crapping journey full of logical fallacies and have many years of congratulating and upvoting each other. Don't forget to continue working on maintaining and growing your ego! Pulsar would be disappointed to see it shrink below the stratosphere. Please, don't let those mean people who dgaf about your opinions to spoil your day. Remember, they surely most important and will become even more important when you reach that 4k post count! Keep up the work!
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"I will certainly not listen to the one who makes basic Appeal to Authority fallacy."
This statement implies that you believe I said that you should listen to me because I have more hours. If you did not believe this, you would not have brought up the AA Fallacy.
I am not sure why you are so hostile with anyone who disagrees with you.
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How many times have you been camped?
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Hey Pulsar what do you think? Shall we buy a cottage in the country? :) I'm pretty sure you and I have had some pretty good debates in the past, but hey perhaps I'm deluded or lovestruck. Heh. I suspect he and I agree on some things because we both have thousands of hours in this game (him far more than me) and play both roles, and don't have any particular bias. You guys on the other hand, you are both newbies comparatively who showed up, hardly have anything logged, and for some reason have grand opinions and notions of what SHOULD be. You guys must both be a delight in real life.
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I didn't say that because I BELIEVE you said that I should listen to you because you have more hours. I said it IN CASE you think I should listen to you or anyone else who has more hours. See, there is a fine difference.
What makes you feel I'm hostile?
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I actually commented first. Sorry @Moundshroud but you were echoing me :p
Firstly, again, you are incredibly rude and hostile to people who disagree with you. Some people are more forward than others, but I've tried my best to be patient and understand with you, as I know people have different experiences. I've explained my views and given examples. Unfortunately, you've responded by attacking others and insulting me.
If you "dgaf about our opinions" as you said, you wouldn't reply. And yet, you continue to do so, indicating some sort of investment in the conversation.
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The fact that you've insulted both me and others sort of gives me a bad impression.
I do think you should consider listening to people who have more time played than you, as that generally indicates you can learn something from them. It's what I did when I was new to the game and I turned out alright.
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I'm saying it's a tactic Killers can use, and you can't remove it without removing that choice.
Removing it would force the Killer into sub-optimal play, or allow unhooks when a death could swing the game in his favor.
Because that's all threads like this are; Survivors wanting to FORCE the Killer into sub-optimal play, or demanding unhooks because they 'walked all the way across the map' for it. They want to remove the Killer's choice in the matter under the guise of 'fun'.
But it's only Survivor 'fun' they care about.
It would be like a Killer demanding punishments for genrushing (not to be confused to knowing sub-7-minute matches are a bit of a bad thing). Like saying 'The generator should teleport away if Survivors are near it for more than 20 seconds. Because when they win too fast, I don't get to play as much as I want'.
Note: That is a direct analogy to a Survivor demanding hooks teleport if the Killer stays nearby, and the fallacy of 'A hooked Survivor does not get to play much'.
If you can't accept getting knocked out of a PvP game by your opponent; don't play PvP games.
But don't stomp onto the forums, demand the mechanics be changed to cater to your 'fun', and expect the devs to go 'Oh sure! Let us totally cripple the opposing player for you!'
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If you're buying it, I'm down.
Yeah, we've butted heads over some issues before, it's probably just a front to hide our undying devotion to each other though, right?
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I insulted you by telling you that I don't care about your opinion? But that's a fact. What is insulting about it? Why do you feel entitled to everyone caring about your opinion. And you are being rude right now. You are implying that I'm lying not caring about your opinion by mere fact that I'm participating in a conversation with you. Do you know that it is very rude? I merely participate for entertainment aspects of it and I truly do not care about your opinion. As you see, I'm incredibly patient with you despite your behaviour.
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I'll have some soul searching to do tonight, without a doubt. :) The one thing I like about a dedicated core of people here, most of whom I've disagreed with and had some knock down debates and discussions with, is that regardless of our disagreements they were able to support their arguments. I know I've debated with you, locked horns with MadLordJack, and done battle with quite a few others. I've been proven wrong a few times and had to eat crow. I've even seen a few of those I debated with (and respect) come around to the same point of view as me months later. Heck, I've come around to the point of view of some I disagreed with as I've become more "seasoned" too. I can't be too upset with those I meet that are stubborn, willfully ignorant, and have massive egos because those are largely my flaws also. The only difference is I'm aware of it and fight against my natural, flaws. Dead by Daylight is kind of baptism by fire, Players that stick and are in it for the long haul all pretty much end up at more or less the same place because with experience wisdom is impossible to duck forever (at least as far as DbD is concerned). Although, I know I tried to duck it... it just hunted me down.
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"I'm also happy you've got Pulsar who will echo every sentiment of yours. You make such a good lovely couple. When is your anniversary? You fit together so well :) I hope you two have long and joyous thread crapping journey full of logical fallacies and have many years of congratulating and upvoting each other. Don't forget to continue working on maintaining and growing your ego! Pulsar would be disappointed to see it shrink below the stratosphere"
That's not an insult?
If I'm being honest, you've succeeded in getting onto my bad side/nerves. Most people here know how difficult that is so, congratulations.
Unfortunately, you haven't added anything useful to this discussion and as such, there is no reason for me to respond to someone like that.
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The fact that you accused me of insulting you without providing any proof of insults is insulting and give bad impression about you. And the fact that you continue making logical fallacies makes me want to ignore you. But then perhaps you feel entitles to not being ignored and may find it insulting? I don't know. It's hard to predict what some people find insulting. Ego is such a fragile thing.
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We've all been there. Prior to joining the Forums, I was a Survivor main and believed Old old DS was perfectly balanced.
we do not like to remember those times XD
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Of course that not an insult. How is someone being happy for you and congratulating you an insult?
"you've succeeded in getting onto my bad side/nerves" - ohhhh, I'm so terribly sorry. I knew I should have sent a link to a video of me bowing to you, the all knowing oracle. Most people know and I don't.... You must be a very important person if most people know. What a shame that I don't care. Ooops, I said it again.
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Helloooooo, I'm King Steve.
Of course I'm extremely important :p
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If you are unable to discuss a topic civilly without resorting to personal attacks on one another I suggest you move along to another thread where you may be able to hold a civil discussion.
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What's to stop Survivors from bodyblocking the Killer and generally impeding the game?
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Or DS base kit. Practically same thing. I'd never suggest it for former DS. But nerfed DS is fine.
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And you don't see any problem with having a completely invincible Survivor following the Killer around?
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There's no such queue time that is a lie you are lying
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It’s very simple. The game is becoming more and more boring with a 3 v1 due to camping/tunnelling - usually both.
Ive only had the game a year, I loved it with its flaws but for whatever reason the game is now 10 x worse for this ‘valid strategy’.
Call it what you want, I’m pretty much at the point where I’m ready to call it quits as for the past few weeks playing as a duo every game has felt dead with the same ‘valid strategy’ used for 50-75% of all games.
Ive bought around 5 friends into the game around the same time and the two of us who play the most are at the same point of despair at how poor the game is going in the playstyle that’s encouraged.
Toxic survivors are annoying, they annoy the hell out of me when I play killer but I just ignore them and go try to kill someone else! But when you’re playing survivor if someone’s tunnelled out and camped the game is boring for everyone either as a 4K at 3-4 gens or a 3 man escape with no interaction for 3 players.
The biggest injustice is the killer gets to dictate the entire game by choosing to camp or tunnel and the survivors are left with no game at all.
If youre not interested in having fun and chasing and outplaying then why even bother playing the game.
Im not totally against tactical camping or tunnelling when you’ve got a 3 gen to protect or two survivors downed/hooked near eachother. It’s the people who go into a game with the full intent of just standing in a spot.
I honestly think the ONLY way you may ever have some way to fix it would be to have a Bloodpoints reduction show up every 10 seconds for -200BP or something so the killer actually is discouraged. I know emblem status loses some score but most people don’t care about that- they can just get other emblems up and still pip - and who really cares about rank anyway!
Its a shame but I genuinely think this game is on its way out now. Was hyped for the RE8 chapter and have bought everything else possible but I don’t think there’s any point in the future. Might as well just have all the same blank canvas killer when so many are just doing the same thing every game.
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I don't see the situations that really call for tunneling and camping? You would prob say "well if nearing the EGC you only have one kill than you have to camp",,, um no, I will tell you what other killers mains have told me for a while now when I play bad/make bad decisions about something and that is "git guud". If the killer was a better player and pressured the gens/survivors better he would not have to camp or tunnel now would he? And not everything is a SWF moment either. I am sincerely asking why this ideology doesn't work both ways?
Every player makes decisions while playing and sometimes those do not pan out. I just don't see the need to fall back onto lazy game play such as camping when you could have played better beforehand. I have seen it work both ways many times with regard to other survivors trying to rescue that one on the hook however, most of the time they just leave so the killer gets 1k.
Finally, what is up with Bubba's,,, why does every single one without fail camp and tunnel? This is not an exaggeration or over-simplification, they ALL do it, why?
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