Wraith is one of the most boring killers to play against
I’d rather have Wraith than Spirit or Legion, but since his rework, he has plummeted in terms of fun factor for me. Don’t get me wrong, Wraith absolutely needed a buff, and it’s sad how weak he’s been for so long.
This isn’t about strength, as there’s at least 10 killers stronger than him, and most are enjoyable to play against. His style of play is just extremely frustrating as a survivor. At a lot of loops, it’s basically a 50/50 as to which side of the pallet he runs to with his massive speed when uncloaking. If this happened just once in a chase, it would be okay, but there is really no reason to stay uncloaked as Wraith since he has literally no power then. This results in a pallet being thrown and broken, over and over, with very little mind games required by the wraith, unlike a killer such as Billy.
I feel like simply buffing his numbers has made him extremely frustrating to play against, as his speed when uncloaked is absurdly fast. Again, I feel like I need to say this multiple times, but I do not think he is OP, just simply not enjoyable to go against. I know it won’t happen, but I wish they would give his cloaking a cooldown, but give him some other ability in chase, or something that gives the Wraith a reason to stay uncloaked.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
Comments
-
His play at pallets is okay imo since it’s an actual 50/50. Someone like spirit is like an 80/20
6 -
I feel like this is about strength because he literally has the exact same play style as he used to have but he’s just a much better version of his former self.
24 -
I’d agree on certain loops, but when you only have time to run to the tiniest loop around a rock, he gets a guaranteed hit. It leaves the survivor in a lose/lose, as his speed makes it very hard to get anywhere.
1 -
Yes, it’s caused him to be a very badly designed killer that gets free hits constantly
9 -
I never thought this day would come that people start complaining about my bing bong boi wraith, but here they come 🤣🤣
He was very strong before the buff if you knew how to play him, never has he been a weak killer only underrated.
And i never used windstorm which he supposedly needed 🤔🤷♂️
But no i don't have the same thought about him as you have 😉
3 -
Any killer can be boring. They've all been called boring by at least one person on the forum.
40 -
It’s getting that free FIRST hit that makes him strong. That’s why it’s important to adjust to a healing strategy against Wraith unlike other killers. He’s easily loopable like most other killers so as long as you are attentive and can loop then he’s 100% got counterplay.
0 -
Anyone else feel like Wraith is the new Freddy?
And no, I don't mean that in the "Freddy OP" way, I mean it in the way that a lot of people pick him because he's easy and they all play the exact same way everytime. Seems like everyone dropped Freddy and went to Wraith
I can't tell you how many bamboozle wraiths I've come across lately who all have the exact same style and gameplay, similiar to how every Freddy would run swing chains jump rope. I wouldn't mind so much, if they committed to chases but most of them don't. They just spam cloak/uncloak most of the game
This is all based on my personal experience, so it may differ and I respect the differing opinions others may have, I don't dislike wraith nor do I think he's too strong I just don't enjoy this particular type of wraith playstyle
8 -
Okay sure, but that doesn’t mean every survivor play is calling all the killers boring. This is just my perspective, as I am extremely happy to go against most of the killers. Nurse, Billy, Oni, Demo, Myers, Huntress, etc are a lot more enjoyable than Wraith. And this is from someone who used to love playing against him, again, he needed a buff, I just don’t think it should’ve been as simple as making his numbers better.
2 -
I went against three wraiths in a row, and yeah, he takes very little skill to play these days.
3 -
It's the new Survivor buzzword! Want a Killer nerfed? Claim he's 'boring' or 'unfun' and a danger to 'the health of the game'!
That way, it's not because you don't like the Killer, no! You're looking out for the game when you ask for nerfs to Killers you don't like...I mean, are 'boring'!
14 -
Thought it was just me that felt this tbh I enjoy playing as him but God matches against him drive me to suicide on hook or in a chase just stopping in my tracks knowing all the safe loops are gone and he's gonna get you anyway.
3 -
Thanks for not reading my post. I mentioned MULTIPLE times that I do not think Wraith should be nerfed, he absolutely ######### needed a massive buff to his base kit. My opinion is that they could have done that without simply buffing his numbers. Look at the doctor rework.
4 -
Feels like having this opinion is a personal attack to killer mains lol. They can’t understand that not enjoying playing against a killer means you think they should be nerfed. I’m not advocating for a nerf to him whatsoever.
3 -
I mean, I've been maining Wraith for the last three years. Would I preferred they do something more to his basekit? Sure. Doesn't really matter now, as BHVR's balance philosophy seems to be "Buff/Nerf something, never touch it again for three years."
1 -
Nor am I but totally feels like no matter what killer mains assume you want them nerfed I mean I love wraith he was my killer main for a good while but I just took to survivor for a less stressful game play but as survivor it just feels like all wraith abuse the speed boost that coming out of invisibility gives him.
0 -
I can't stand playing against him anymore. It's a cheap, frustrating experience.
8 -
You just can’t win. I’ve mained killer in the past, I’ve seen both sides.
2 -
He is definitely stronger than before and his lunge is threatening. I personally think he is in a really good spot right now. I like facing him because Ive gotta be more aware of my position than normal so its a more involved game than normal killers that give you plenty of warnings to when they are coming and can just be looped into infinity. Which Wraith can definitely be looped and countered just not the same as most killers.
0 -
I’m genuinely glad you enjoy him. I’m not trying to start an anti-Wraith party, as I love his design, lore, etc. I’m simply wondering what the consensus is on him right now, and sharing my perspective. It’s quite aggravating taking time to write out my issues with him, and being met with extreme hostility. It’s a discussion forum, wouldn’t be needed if everyone agreed on everything.
I much prefer your type of response, explaining why you enjoy going against him. It’s totally personal preference. For example, some people hate going against Myers, but I really don’t mind him.
5 -
Ah yes, the bing-bong-#########.
If you can't tell by that insult, yes, I really hate Wraith.
4 -
Lol, I actually love the bing bong, he’s just frustrating to play against
1 -
Depends on the map on how devastating it'll be to face Wraith. One time Shelter Woods we were all dead at 4 gens. Then played against Wraith ran him for four gens then he gave up. But boring doesn't equal OP of course. Since the devs don't balance around how enjoyable it is to face a killer.
0 -
Oh, really? I hate him as both roles.
2 -
Not really, though. He plays a lot like he used to play with purple windstorm, except he has a bigger speed boost and even better stealth now to go with it and of course he has the extra add-on slot free, so he's even more able to use his power effectively. Survivors can't see him coming when there are wide open spaces anymore, they usually hear the bell before the snarling and breathing unless he's basically on top of them, and his speed boost is massive. His easy first hits are even easier now, and now his chases boil down to:
Bing Bong, easy first hit, wipe weapon, recloak, zoom after the survivor, either beat them to the next loop or bait a pallet drop and then beat them to the following loop, easy second hit.
If you're on a map that somehow gives you a bunch of insane tiles right next to each other, like one of those Wreckers Yard spawns with a strong window in a jungle gym aimed right at shack, yeah, he'll struggle. So would most killers. If you're on your average generator when he shows up, he should be able to seriously limit the length of the chase. There's also not much you can do against it without a flashlight.
---
Before, Wraith didn't get nearly as much payoff for cloaking mid-chase (smaller speed boost, slower catch up, one fewer add-on to take advantage of if one's locked up in a Windstorm) and it was easier to counter his first hit. He was stuck looping normally as a base M1 killer quite a bit, and he was pretty weak as a result. He definitely did need buffs.
Not like this, though. I'm fine with high movement speed. I'm fine with stealth. Putting both together makes me feel like I'm playing against Victor lol. Unless you have a flashlight to punish cloaking mid-chase it's boring at best and frustrating at worst.
4 -
Yeah playing against him is a really miserable experience. The post uncloak lunge feels very cheap with very little interaction or counterplay from the survivor in a lot of situations. Getting hits as him is so low effort and easy now that it doesn't feel like he really outplayed someone or earned it.
And All-seeing and silent bell still exist with no drawback for some reason.
They need to give him some kind of other chase power because the post uncloak lunge just ain't it imo.
8 -
I hate going against him because he's not fun to interact with, it's just boring as hell. Maybe if I have a flashlight there's a bit of fun interaction but if I don't (and I usually don't) there's basically none. And unlike other stealth killers I don't get rewarded for detecting him early because he's gonna catch up in 2 seconds either way
8 -
The thing I really hate about facing him, is that facing a good wraith means you get no boldness (no TR and no chases) since he's just always cloaked. Not to mention dailies and challenges for being chased are near impossible against Wraith now.
Honestly I really dislike any killer that can bypass chase mechanics. Victor is the other big offender, but I've had a few vs huntress games where I would run them around the map and never get in chase.
It just sucks wasting a killer's time and not getting rewarded for it.
6 -
What is this argument? We should never be allowed to complain about frustrating killer mechanics? lol
4 -
They never asked for a nerf 🤣
Stop demonizing survivors.
7 -
If anything, I’d love if wraith was stronger than he is now, just more enjoyable to go against. I’d only say he’s just barely B tier right now.
1 -
Sounds like a skill issue :neutral:.
1 -
You’re right, they should never change any killers.
1 -
Yes, totally a skill issue when I love playing against killers who are much stronger than wraith. Do y’all not have anything better to do than be rude because some of us don’t like a killer? You can disagree without being a smartass.
By this logic, old ruin was fine for bullying low ranks since they can’t hit great skill checks. I’m not bad at the game, but even if I was, it wouldn’t really be relevant. They should cater to the casual players, not the sweaty tournament players.
8 -
Wraith's post-uncloak lunge functions basically the same as Pig's ambush, except it's harder to easily shut down by running away. Is Pig's ambush a free hit and boring and unfun to go against? No.
I don't understand the hatred towards having to predict what the opponent's going to do that a lot of people on this forum have. With Spirit the hatred's justified as she has much more info on what you're doing than what you have on what she's doing, and that's unfair. But it just seems like any killer that forces the survivor to make a read is "boring" and "unfun", despite the killer having to make loads of reads and guesses in a chase. If we remove 50/50's and having to make equal guesses on both sides, in favour of the survivor always being able to shut down the killer's power without much room for the killer to do anything, then the game would ACTUALLY be boring. That's how you get killers like nu-Billy, whose chainsaw can be hard countered so easily that i just see him as a free win these days, the rare times he does show up. It doesn't matter how good the Billy player is, if you know how to go against him, he is not chainsawing you at any decent tile.
I hope this doesn't seem too aggressive or anything, I'm not trying to be, but it's really irritating how every single killer is seen as boring - and by extension, needing a change/nerf to make them less boring, just because they force the survivor to play differently. Some of these are justified, such as Spirit and pre-nerf Freddy, but Wraith is definitely not. This kind of reductionist thinking is awful in my opinion and I'm sort of glad BHVR doesn't pay too much attention to these forums.
(Also, if Wraith is uncloaking and facing and moving one way, he will most likely double back the other direction. It's basic pig ambush logic, and I use it to counter the lunge whenever I play against him. Of course he'll mix it up, but isn't that the point of an online game? To go against intelligent opponents?)
2 -
Yeah totally I understand and can definitely see the aggravation towards wraith going up with his ease of use. Though I do think to use him well you have to have good understanding of tiles but yeah. The only killer I hate facing is a camping Bubba because there is nothing to be done against that. Anyways I can see why people are frustrated but I fear it could lead to Wraith being nerfed in some way which I don't want to happen because he is finally in a really good position.
0 -
I could agree with this. A power rework to make it more interactive but still good and give that hit and run playstyle. I would be interested to see what the devs or community could come up with. Id also argue that Myers and Trapper are very outdated and could use some touch ups
0 -
He’s almost identical to how he used to be. The only major difference now is that he can use different addons. It’s almost impossible to hit a survivor while uncloaking if they’re at a strong loop/pallet. The only way you’re getting a hit is if they mess up. Weaker loops / pallets is a different story but rightfully so imho.
0 -
even before the buff Wraith was still boring imo, he wasn't (and isn't) overpowered or anything but there was never any real chase if they ran windstorm (which they all did). and if they didn't he basically had no power, which was also boring
now every wraith just plays his hit-and-run style, which is more miserable than forever freddy tbh
1 -
New wraith is so boring to play against, so I just dc and deny the killer his hook stages and barbecue points.
I would rather play against spirit than wraith, because with a spirit there is actually some room for 50/50s on pallets. New wraith just hit you on short loops regardless. His uncloak speed boost and lunge is insane, so he is literally teleporting across my screen with 0 reaction time. Even if I guess the direction right I still get hit through the pallet every single time.
This is just bullshit and the same level of fun like pre-nerf Freddy, slugging twins, facecamping Bubba or silent traps hag.
2 -
Absolutely, Wraith needs a nerf he’s literally broken now. He constantly is getting free hits and most users camp hook with him…
1 -
I just had yesterday Wraith with Bamboozle and windows literally destroy him. He only managed to got that first hit because I wasn't expecting Wraith but rest of the match he only swinged windows everytime when he tried to chase. Noed at the end didn't help him either.
0 -
Can’t really say I agree with that tbh. Sure the irl that lets him see survivor’s auras while cloaked is nice and helps with looping but he always had that. Besides it’s an iri and is weaker than plenty of addons other killers have.
It’s strange to me how people are struggling vs. Wraith all of a sudden. It’s not like he got some super buff, the changes were more quality of life than anything else and he functions pretty much the same as he always has.
I think the issue is that people always assumed he was weak because that’s what other people said, so nobody really played him, thus nobody has really had enough experience playing vs. him.
Now all of a sudden people are saying he’s OP etc, because that’s what other people are saying. The usual circle jerking that happens in games.
I don’t doubt that people are struggling vs him but I honestly think it’s because they don’t really know how to play vs. him, and it’s easier to follow the herd and call something OP than it is to adjust one’s approach.
I just wait by Windows, vault as he uncloaks, impossible for him to hit. Or wait by a pallet, drop it as he uncloaks. If he’s good I’ll just pre-drop. If it’s a weak pallet I just accept that I’m probably going to get hit and try to make it to a stronger loop/pallet before I’m downed.
If Wraith commits to one chase for too long it’s game over for him anyways. His lethality is in catching people out of position and he’s a mediocre chaser at many of the loops.
He’s strong sure, always has been actually. But he’s nowhere near the level of Nurse, Spirit and Blight.
0 -
Wraith's always been boring to go against. His recent buff just added frustration to the boring factor.
Post edited by Dwight_Fairfield on2 -
I find Wraith extremely fun to play as and against, always have. It is true that while in the past many or most players usually decided to remain uncloaked in chases which obviously makes for fun gameplay if you enjoy barebone chase gameplay, now with the movement speed changes more people have caught on to the fact that recloaking is objectively the better play (it usually was prior to the buff too, especially given the use of certain add-ons of course). But the chase dynamics of a cloaking and uncloaking Wraith are still similarly as engaging and thrilling as those of a barebone chase, and in some respects arguably more so.
Here are some pointers:
If Wraith cloaks and tries to get in front of you to block your path to a pallet or window, you can try to swerve to bodyblock him to prevent him from being able to get around you before you get close enough to that window or pallet. This is actually a super fun interaction between you and Wraith, like a racing game.
At windows, you can often force Wraith to go through the uncloaking action and vault at the last possible moment, wasting more of his time.
If Wraith uncloaks in front of an active pallet, you can stall at the pallet and this opens up a lot of possibilities (make sure you stand close enough to the pallet that Wraith cannot bodyblock the pull prompt). Generally, Wraith will want you to drop the pallet so that he can cancel the uncloak, break the pallet and uncloak right on your heels. You can abuse this likewise by delaying the pallet drop as much into the uncloaking process as possible, that way you get a second or two more out of every pallet. Then if you do drop the pallet and see that he cancels his uncloak, you can try to vault over the pallet before he is able to break it, thus forcing him to again go through the uncloak action until the last moment, at which point you vault over the pallet again. At that point he will be able to break it faster than you would be able to vault back over yet again if he spams the command, but this will have still gotten you yet a few more seconds out of the pallet.
From there, more possibilities arise. Since Wraith will expect you to drop the pallet at the last possible moment and therefore cancel his uncloak action at the end preemptively, you can opt not to drop the pallet at all. That way you can get another loop around the pallet before you are back in the same situation, rinse repeat. Of course, the Wraith can call your bluff and actually go through with the entire uncloaking action and hit you through the pallet, but that is a risk you are taking, whereas the risk for the Wraith of course is that you actually do drop the pallet, either stunning him or at least having forced him to uncloak fully, which will cost him some time having to recloak again after breaking the pallet, giving you more distance.
Further possibilities present themselves: Anticipating that you are looking to drop the pallet at the last possible moment, Wraith can try to use his uncloaking speed boost to rush around the pallet loop to catch you out as you are stuck in the dropping interaction, depending on the size of the loop. This however can give you an opportunity to get more loops out of the pallet if you don't actually drop the pallet. Something that helps with this are bait and bait-and-switch pallet drops as well as late pallet drops. Standing at the pallet facing it with your back, you can turn around to bait that you are going to drop the pallet - for the static pallet drop animation, survivors will always face the pallet, so turning your model around manually is a good way to fake the drop. If you are facing the pallet directly, you can still crouch to try and fake the drop. This might cause Wraith to cancel the uncloak early, resetting the situation, or it might initiate him to try and rush around the tile, you then being able to get more loops out of it since you didn't drop the pallet.
Since Wraith is then however presented with the possibility of only faking rushing around the loop, turning around part-way and actually rushing through the pallet, bait-and-switch and late pallet drops are a good tool to also be aware of. Bait-and-switch means you first bait the pallet drop like mentioned above, then make to turn away from the pallet, only to then actually drop the pallet. This can lead to pallet stuns quite often. Late drops are just where you utilize the full prompt range on pallet pulls to delay the drop to either draw the killer into the stun or to have just a split second more time to decide on whether you want to drop it at all, which can also be combined with bait-and-switches. Of course, from there bait-and-switch-and-bait plays open up... and so on.
Pallet interactions in general have much more depth to them than people usually assume, and while it is true that cloaked Wraith takes some of this depth away, these tips should show you that there is still gameplay involved. And it is pretty engaging still, and actually really fun if you can pull something off like vaulting over the pallet to prevent cloaked Wraith from breaking it. Laughs guaranteed. Of course, the less safe a pallet loop the more of an advantage for Wraith, and Wraith has some really good add-ons that can make it more difficult or downright oppressive ("All Seeing" - Blood plus Coxcombed Clapper, Shadow Dance plus The Serpent, stacked Swift Hunts...), but there are enough sufficiently safe loops and tile setups on most maps to be able to still have non-repetitive chase interactions against Wraith, if you're smart about it. Plus on the flipside, flashlights and firecrackers make for some really fun Wraith counterplay too, by burning him. And if you manage to stun Wraith while he is cloaked, his stun animation will last extra-long.
Good and fast reactions help, as always. Low-latency connections on you and the killer do as well, because latency favours the killer either way unfortunately.
My suggestion is to play some Wraith yourself. Not only is he really fun to play, but you will quickly realize what you as Wraith struggle with, find situations you are not confident in, things survivors do that throw you for a loop, figuratively and literally. This in turn will help you play better against Wraith as well.
0 -
You need to stop with the tinfoil hat stuff, bhvr have never nerfed a killer bc someone said they were boring ("boredom" doesn't show up in statistics, which they are obsessed with) and the survivor shadow council hasn't decreed that all killers must be called boring until they get nerfed into the ground, despite, again, this never happening before.
I know it's hard to believe that some people have different preferences, or that going against your noed/stridor spirit or whatever might not be the most fascinating experience on the planet for everything, but fun is subjective.
2 -
Seriously i dont understand how people have trouble with looping a wraith. I played against a wraith on hawkins. After his first down 3 gens were done. I thought easy game, but while i completed the 4th gen, my teammates broke the world record in losing chases. They lost 6 hook states in 2min. I took the chase and didnt get hit for 1min. Then the wraith changed targets, killed two and i got onehooked. Dont get me wrong wraith is not that weak, but everytime i play against him others make so many mistakes.
0 -
Wraith definitely needed the buffs but I feel now he needs an add-on pass. With his speed and invisibility All Seeing is now pretty much completely uncounterable and some of his other add-ons give a little too much power. Base Wraith with no add-ons isn't that bad to me but when you give him the insane speed and almost true invisibility plus add-ons that make him uncloak incredibly fast or able to see people through walls he becomes a little too oppressive.
0 -
I've been feeling the same way about him lately but not because of wraith himself, its potatoe team mates that waste all the pallets while he's cloaked or fall for his mind games extremely easily.
It feels like freddy all over again, it's not that he's OP, he just dominates noob survivors more efficiently than alot of other killers and can still apply pressure easily with his stealth speed.
0 -
You know you can just predrop filler pallets and play windows, maze tiles, shack, path pallets and buildings, right? There's literally nothing forcing you to give control of the pallet to the killer, and to be perfectly honest there's no way a wraith can hit you at a thrown pallet unless it's naturally very unsafe or you severely misplay. Otherwise, at your normal unsafe pallet, he has to play it like an m1 killer because if he cloaks and goes for a lunge you can just rotate around the loop to avoid it.
1
