50% louder than 0% is still zero.
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But that statement is stupid. It's not about how "math is supposed to work" Mathematically speaking there are 2 ways to calculate it. Either one is valid and the devs have chosen to do stuff additively. This has some advantages, because when stack things additively you don't have to worry about things getting out of control when they stack. If you have 3 things that increase something by 50%, it is far less strong additvely than multiplicatively. Additively, it increases things by 150% total, multiplicatively it increases it by almost 250%.
This allows them to not worry about things that stack from getting out of control.
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No there isn't.
It doesn't need to be the way it's supposed to work. Most games stack additively. So why shouldn't DBD?
It makes perfect sense. They have to add percentages because it would be too confusing to do it any other way. They can't do it by meters like surveillance, because survivors make different amounts of noise. They can't do it in a multiplicative way because they would have to change too many things.
You started an argument for no reason 😂
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It doesn't even lead to confusion unless you
1.) Have never played any other video games that stack additively, which is pretty much a norm.
2.) Are trying to start things for no reason.
It's worded in a consise, but precise, way.
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I posted an answer. I just didn’t directly quote the question.
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If a player needs to visit a superfluous site to understand, then it’s a failure on the game maker’s part. The description shouldn’t be making it confusing by giving “percentage” a different definition than actual mathematicians use. Words have meanings. Use them wrong and it leads to problems.
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Dont worry OP, I get exactly what you're trying to say.
Everyone else just is trying too hard to be argumentative about literally everything except what you're trying to say.
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Ah, you mean the "concrete numbers" thing with points instead of percentages? Personally, I think that's more confusing than the percentages, but I don't know how others feel about it.
A lot of stuff in this game is learned as you play. Survivors running tier 3 Iron Will don't hear themselves while injured... until they come across a killer running Stridor, and then they do hear themselves. They get a warning that the killer is countering their perk. They read the killer's perks on the end screen, and if they didn't already know it then they learn Stridor counters Iron Will. Unless a survivor main goes online to read about killer perks, they're really not going to know much about killer perks until they come across them in the game and they learn through experience. Whether they accept that the math is additive or come online and claim the perks are bugged depends on the person.
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If those were multipliers, the same principle would be used for everything else. Can you imagine stacking slowdown perks that way?
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I guess you aren't the best in math.
An extra 50% for the 100 volume is:
100x150%=100x1.50=150
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And why should it be obvious? Why should it be obvious that the percentage is calculated from original value?
Why is it then that the order of add-ons can matter? E.g. one is adding charges the other is adding percentage. Why is there the percentage not calculated from the item value, but from item+chargeaddon?
So no need to "oh my xxx xxx"...
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It is common sense. The reason that the order of add-ons matters is because of addition, actually. The first addon is added to the item, and the second is added to the first addon.
I'm sorry, but I am tired of this logic. They always want to nerf Stridor, but instead of just SUGGESTING a nerf, they decide to go on a whole spiel on how it doesn't make sense. That OMFG was because of the logic that this guy used.
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What a strangely pedantic thread. At least it's an amusing change from the typical "Killer camped me!" esque threads.
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Like many said the perks are additive. Honestly both really need a slight rework in their descriptions. Drop the % because it only confuses people and instead just measure it by "points" or something to that effect.
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50% louder than 0% is zero, yes, but 50% louder than the base value is 150%. If the current value is 0%, then 50% louder than the base value, added to the current value of 0%, is 50% of the base value. That's what it means.
Or just add the phrase "of the base/default value".
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You don't need to visit another site to understand how these perks function together
Reduce by 100%/ 50% louder or in other words increase by 50% very clearly indicates that it's stacking additively
Even by a logical standpoint you could see it isn't working the way you thought it was cause if stridor really worked as a multiplier then it would multiply the sound by 0.5 wich means that it would actually lower the sound which clearly isn't the case seeing how it says 50% louder
This isn't a case of the terminology being wrong this is you misunderstanding the terminology.
Which happens, it's not a big deal. Everybody reads something wrong sometimes. There is no reason to make a fuzz about it
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Math moment
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Lmao the idea of stridor increasing grunts of pain to 5,000% is hilarious to me.
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Uhm, that's how they worked back in the day, up to negatives...
If you stacked enough gen repair slowdowns in 2016, survivors would start damaging the gens instead of repairing them...
But back then you had to use Billy's chainsaw addons and keep downing peeps with it multiple times.
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Wow, people getting mad simply because someone suggested to change the description of a perk (not nerf it) because it can be misleading.
Gotta love DbD forums.
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Addition is a thing, dude.
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Not always though, for example prove thyself is multiplicative, and I'm not quite sure of how multiple action speed debuffs/buffs stack (like, thana is additive with itself, but what about thana + DL, do they add up or multiply?). The numbers are so similar in either case that it doesn't really matter
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Yes, there are a few exceptions, but the majority of things stack in an additive way
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Where did you read that OP wants to nerf stridor?
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Devs do not perform buffs and debuffs in sequence. This is to avoid two modifers from over buffing or over debuffing an action. The reason being issues with addon modifiers in the past. Everthing is based on the default value and then added together.
Say noise of pain is 100. That is the base value.
Iron Will removes 100%.
100 * -1 = -100
Strider adds 50%.
100 * 0.5 = 50
All buffs and debuffs are combined.
100 + (-100 + 50) = 50
Ending value is 50.
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That’s another solution: Just add the word “stacks” to the description of both Iron Will and Stridor. If they did that then my issues with their wording would go away. When they say “stacks” with offerings I know exactly what is meant. I know that 3 Escape Cakes is only 300%. But that said, if you are afk and get killed you get zero points, and 300% of 0 is still zero. So the use of percentages in the perk description is still a bit troublesome, but I could ignore it easier if they just said “stacks”.
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You’re just repeating what others have posted ad nauseum. And you are still doing the math wrong. You’re saying Iron Will “removes 100”, NOT “removes 100%”
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Its removing 100% of the base value.
What you are missing is each buff and debuff are evaluated separately based on the same base value not the result of another.
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I’m not missing it. I’ve never been missing it. The issue isn’t how it is being done, it is how it is phrased in the description. Honestly don’t know why almost none of you can see that, you just keep re-explaining things that aren’t even the point of my thread.
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Not everything needs to be spelled out for you. Both perks modify the same mechanic. In game you can hear your grunts of pain with both strider and IW in play. It doesn't take much more to come to the conclusion that IW's 100% isn't an overall modifier.
It seems you are more upset it doesn't work the way you want it to than accepting the way it does.
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I saw you had 68 up votes so I had to up vote to make it 69.
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I’m actually not upset at all about the perk itself, but I have to admit I’m getting a little frustrated with people creating strawman arguments about things that I’m not even saying, have never said, and explicitly pointed out in the *very first post* that *I know what they mean*. I mean, sheesh. And yes, I do believe that when it comes to rules and descriptions, that everything needs to be “spelled out” explicitly. Call me crazy.
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This entire "logic" mentality that's popped up recently is all about nerfing it.
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😂😂
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Says you. Don’t put words into my mouth.
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Then don't say stupid words.
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Ooh. Ouch. Nice comeback. Very juvenile.
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It's more than juvenile. It's accurate.
You started an argument for no reason whatsoever. You know how it works, so why continue this? I think that makes YOU the juvenile one here, not me.
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Stupid is not understanding what a discussion is about and getting angry about it anyways, which is what you did in your very first post here. But please, keep believing that I created the argument. Lol.
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Maybe you should give it a rest. There's have to be trolling.
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It's actually hilarious how many people genuinely believe this #########, its not 100x50, its 100x.50 making it 50%. It is a multiplication. dumb dumbs
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HAHAHA are you serious, ITS NOT ADDED. ITS MULTIPLIED, the man who made this post is right ffs! You multiply by the percent or decimal. Not the whole number you big bag of donkey doodle #########. sry lol. Stridor is simply worded wrong. It needs to say adds 50% because yes stridor does add, but everything else is multiplied
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Would it be mean to call you dumb?
Everything in this game but PTS stacks additively. They add percents together to prevent situations that are hard to code, such as Stridor making injured survivors without IW 5,000% loudness.
Stridor is worded completely right once you know how the game works.
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You did though. You're trying to create problems where there aren't any. Stop.
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oh dude, you have full right to call me anything, pls do
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Obviously from your angry over reaction to this topic that it has come up many times before. So maybe it isn’t a problem… for you. For other people that may be new to the game it is a different matter. So instead of telling me to stop, maybe you should go to a safe space some place where certain topics won’t offend your delicate sensibilities.
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I mean, depends on if its a debuff or a buff tho. Seperate buffs do stack additively, but debuffs are multiplied.
Iron Will is a bit of an odd ball out, as it's not a debuff or buff to your sound, it's a change to your sound range. It's more similar to Terror Radius affecting perks and addons(Dead Rabbit, Distressing, Monitor&Abuse) than it is action affecting perks(anything involving actually pressing a button)
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The biggest reason why it needs to be additive for Stridor is because of different survivors being louder/quieter than others. Adding the percentage makes it more consistent.
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I'm not offended, just annoyed with this specific topic. People always try to use this "logic" to nerf Stridor. You see it in most nerf Spirit posts, which there are tons of.
When I was new to the game I figured out how things stacked relatively quickly. And I joined when the game came out, so I didn't have more experienced players to teach me this either.
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Most games stack percentages additively, with exceptions like Team Fortress 2.
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Have you tried adding instead of multiplying
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