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C’mon BHVR! Now that Wraith has had significant buffs, it’s time for All Seeing Blood to go!
I absolutely despise this add on. I always have.
It’s now significantly worse to deal with now that Wraith can get much, much closer before seeing his shimmer both because of his base speed increase, and the distance at which he has total invisibility.
Everything else with Wraith i’d say is balanced, but “All Seeing” - Blood is just awful, and unfair.
Idea.
What if it were changed to compliment one Wraiths unique existing base abilities?
“All Seeing” - Blood. While cloaked the auras of disturbed crows are revealed to you.
Because Wraith doesn’t disturb crows while cloaked, this could act as map wide Spies, with actual survivor counterplay to be more stealthy around perched crows.
Comments
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Yeah, let's nerf wraith, and demogorgon, both mid tier killers. But nurse and spirit still get to exist for over 2 years in their current state.
How about we stop nerfing killers that don't need it, and start dealing with the things that do?
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I’m talking about ONE add on. ONE!
I never said gut him, or revert any of his other changes. Perhaps re-read my post.
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Re-read my post. I’m only talking about it be add on
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I think it's pretty fun :)
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I agree. The Add On was more fair when Wraith had to give up an Add On-Slot for Windstorm.
But now with Windstorm Basekit, they can tone down All Seeing a bit.
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Maybe lower the range by a bit, but other than that, I think it's okay.
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How would you change it?
I dont really see a problem with it but to be fair i rarely play against it or with it.
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While we're talking about nerfing add ons, why don't we nerf clown's cigar box? Which is arguably a worse offender than all seeing blood.
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I see far more Wraith's than I do Nurse/Spirit, and even the ones I do see are generally not very good. Kind of like your argument.
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Because Wraith doesn’t need to run Windstorm if they don’t want to, I only see Wraiths with All Seeing Blood.
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We are used to dealing with things regarded as busted. What is one more?
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I actually have to agree. Lost a Survivor? Throw down an Antidote. Just hooked someone and want to know if somebody is waiting close by? Throw down an Antidote.
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Thats not a good reasoning tho.
Why do you think its too strong? Nothing should be nerfed just because it gets used alot.
Is all seeing blood the add on where you see auras within 12 meters?
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For the same reason people find Stridor Spirit a problem: Wraith can ALWAYS know where survivors are, and survivors don’t know where Wraith is usually until it’s too late to do much about it because of how quickly he can close in until his Shimmer is visible.
Pretty much every Wraith wins with this add on since all his buffs.
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I don't think high MMR is going to have that much of a problem against cigar box
same thing with all seeing.
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To be fair, the aura range is pretty small. You usually will hear his loud footsteps and or see his shimmer.
Its also only effective at high loops or indoor maps but then again, the range is extremly short.
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I don't really mind if this one goes, there's already lots of fun stuff in his Add-on arsenal, in my humble opinion.
But i AM scared of how it would be nerfed.
My fear is that it'll be another "Z" Block.
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I think increasing the range at which he shimmers would be a fair trade off.
Survivors can't hide from you but you can't hide as well either. Also would let shrewd survivors figure it out that hiding is pointless if they can notice the shimmer being further then normal
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12m is not as short as you think. That’s a 24m range all around him.
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I think that’s an acceptable compromise, if it was increased by a significant distance.
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Yep I can confirm that. Completely invalidates tatoo’s finger too
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I admire you espousing the truth but you know that as long as killer mains exist on this forum you're not going to get anywhere. The Wraith is only just barely decent now, remember? It is YOU, and myself, and other fools who think otherwise, that are in the wrong. Wraith used to be LITERALLY INCAPABLE OF EVER SUCCEEDING AT ANYTHING, EVER, no matter who was in control of him. Now, only the best 10,000 hour red rank Wraith mains can ever so much as hope to come close to landing a single hit with him no matter the circumstances.
There's nothing wrong with him other than that he's still F tier and should be buffed even more. How dare you try to take away the only things that prevented this character from racking up losses into perpetuity.
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Well it's already a purple Add-on, so it's already a costly Add-on to use every game, and rather than straight up nerfing it, could maybe switch places with the Iridescent Add-on that shows gen intensity.
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That sounds good.
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Dude Wraith is fine... He doesn't need any dang on nerfs. You're too experienced to be whining about a C tier M1 KILLER! Accept your loss and move on man.
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I gotta agree. He’s definitely not OP or anything but this add on needs a change. But apparently a bunch of people who don’t even use it think it should stay
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It’s BECAUSE of my extensive experience I can assess that this add on needs changes. Again I’m talking about gutting his entire kit. I’m talking about one add on.
ONE!
Did you catch that?
ONE!
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Why are people overreacting so hard? Yeah Wraith is fine but that add-on is too strong.
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Exactly. I’m annoyed so many are behaving like I said Wraith should be gutted when I specifically said I think everything else with Wraith is balanced. I’m talking about ONE add on. Just one. An add on that indirectly got much stronger because of all of Wraiths other changes.
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You have to wait for the average match statistics from Almo2001/The community team before you can determine that this addon is overperforming. It may be that this addon is actually performing just fine!
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*Chuckles*
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Becuz him worse killar ever and him now only bairly playebel
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My dude, my friend, my boy.
Killer mains on the forums are the worst thing to happen to this game. They want survivors to be miserable and hate the idea of both sides having fun lol
Asking for a busted add on to be nerfed will be met with nothing but "wraith is mid tier" "we're not gutting wraith, get gud" "Just listen better"
Wraith was overbuffed imo. With no add on balancing when his add ons were designed for his slower speed to make people choose between windstorm or another build. Hell i remember yellow all seeing and how bad it was.
People still act like Wraith is bad. He is a solo destroyer lol. I normally disagree with Tru3 for example but he's right about Wraith being very strong/Oppressive and slept on. (because killers on the forums refuse to acknowledge both sides get buffed and nerfed)
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Devs balance a game around the best Nurse/Spirit players, not around the worst. Just because some people are bad at them, that doesn't mean they aren't deserving of nerfs.
Simply because there are more Wraiths than Spirits/Nurses doesn't mean a mid-tier killer like Wraith deserves any huge nerfs like removing one if their better add-ons.
Your argument on that point isn't how balancing is handled, that's the long and the short of it in truth.
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wraith should be nerfed regardless... his movement speed out of uncloaking is absolutely ridiculous and every single one off his add-ons are good. they need to make more flop add-ons for him like blight’s adrenaline vial, reduce the time needed to burn his cloak, and reduce the speed he gets after uncloaking... wraith used to be C tier and should STAY THERE period
we do not need anymore overpowered killers
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"yOu JuSt WaNt To MiNdLeSsLy lOoP kIlLeRs LiKe WrAiTh"
I just want both sides to have fun
I get sweaty wraiths in like a 3rd of my games now. Its boring as hell
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Devs balance a game around the best Spirit and Nurse players, not around the players who are learning them or playing then sub-optimally.
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Simply because there are more Wraiths than Spirits or Nurses doesn't mean that a respectable strong, but not top tier killer like Wraith should have one of his better add-ons like All-Seeing-Blood removed or nerfed.
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Your argument in favour of nerfing Wraith over other S+ tier killers like Spirit and Nurse isn't how balancing us handled. That's the long and the short of it.
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Thing is I’m one of the most “killer main” killer mains here. But I believe in fairness for both sides.
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I agree. I'd just like both sides to have fun. I don't agree with ignorant claims of "this guy is too OP, nerf him" (which the OP did not say, I mean in general) nor do I agree with equally ignorant "counterarguments" of "he's fine, stop complaining, get better".
I've been having the argument about the new RPD map all day (all month, to be honest). "I hate it so it's bad, and because it's bad you need to change it". Such stupid, subjective comments. Everyone in this game should have the chance to enjoy everything, and finding a good balance is hard to do. If more people worked together to rationally and intelligently discuss apparent issues in an open-minded way instead of just clinging to their own personal preferences and saying, in short, "this is how I feel and how I feel is right" I think that this community would be a lot more productive.
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It's very busted. A wallhack on an overpowered killer.
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Brilliantly said
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Thank you. I appreciate the compliment but I think it's honestly just common sense. I see so many people make valid points, bring up reasonable discussion, and so often it's countered by ignorance. No desire for discussion, no ability to play devil's advocate or see things from the other side, just "NO, I disagree, you're wrong, shut up".
I won't argue that Wraith may have been considered by many to be poor before the update. I didn't think so, I thought he was just fine and that it was a matter of perception based on the fact that he's one of the launch killers and has been surpassed in ability and technique in the years since. That's how I look at it but I also acknowledge that I haven't been here for five years to see if he really IS that hated (my matches these last few months say otherwise, but that's anecdotal).
That said, I also acknowledge that with just one buff Wraith has become a much cheaper, more frustrating opponent to face. To say "he's only gone from unplayable to barely C tier" or "I never thought I'd see the day when people are calling for the Wraith to be nerfed" is to dismissively wave off any attempt at communicating the problem. And as much as I really do try not to take sides, I've noticed that the killer mains, at least some of the more vocal ones on this forum, seem to have a sense of entitlement and possessiveness towards this game. Don't you dare nerf any of my killers, ever. Don't you dare add another indoor map or do anything that puts me at an advantage. I'm not saying that survivors don't complain too, but to me it seems like a lot of survivors will bring up concerns in an earnest way only to be shot down, and I don't happen to see a lot of the reverse. Is that just chance? Sure, quite possibly. But regardless of which "side" is doing it, it would be really great if people could dial it back. Too many players of this game think only for themselves and what THEY like, and refuse to even hear discussion to the contrary. It shouldn't be that way.
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I never thought I'd see the day, people seriously complain about WRAITH being OP lol.
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C tier isn't a good place for killers to be.
That implies a killer is underpowered. You can't wish for things to specifically be underpowered for the sake of your fun, disregarding others'.
Thinking something is OP, that's fine. That's your opinion. Thinking that ANYTHING should be designed to be underpowered, and addons like Adren Vial should be more common (beyond useless; extremely unfun to use and far worse than basekit) isn't a good thing at all. We all have bias, but that's some extreme bias right there.
I do genuinely think this addon can be pretty dumb and brainless like old compound, and that the iri clapper is just cheesy and should be replaced with another new effect, but I'm not gonna sit here and go "Yeah, Iri Clapper should be replaced with an addon that makes his uncloak speed faster, but decreases his cloaked movement speed to 1m/s like Adrenaline Vial for Wraith :-)" ????
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I have to disagree. I want it to stay as my anti blendette addon. 3 blendys and a Jeff on Midwich last night. That game would have been absolutely miserable without it.
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...
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Your idea for a replacement sounds cool. I think the devs would be more inclined to do something less interesting though, like chop a couple of metres off the aura reading.
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READ THE DAMN POST!
I’m talking about one add on, not wanting Wraith gutted.
Are only children responding to this thread?!
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As a former wraith main I would be fine with a side effect, like being slowed down while cloaked, more visibility, or just moving the addon to Ultra-rare to replace All seeing-spirit. I do not want the addon reworked however, no matter what it shouldn't take away the "aura reading within 12m" part.
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Its an iri bro... the killer won't be able to keep up a steady supply. Iri's should be strong and i am getting sick of bhvr and people demanding they be worse then brown addons.
got it mixed up with the one that lets you see gen progress. My bad.
Post edited by Zozzy on2
