Why is the community so up in arms about noed?
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Your whole argument of noed being too strong because of having to "waste time doing and looking for totems and realizing the killer doesn't have noed" can be argued about the 3 overly used survivor perks that are powerful for just existing. A killer waiting a few more seconds before hitting a survivor because he "might" have dead hard adds up, a killer having to ignore a survivor for 60 seconds because he MIGHT have d.strike adds up, a killer waiting 12 seconds to hit a survivor who was unhooked right in front of him because he MIGHT have borrowed time, adds up. You are aware killers can have their time "wasted" do to survivor perks that don't even need to be used in order to be effective right? And yes this is coming from a survivor main who understands the power each side has because i play both sides and not only complaining about "my side" killers and survivors both have perks that can waste the others time without even needed to be equipted. The treat of the perk alone works for both.
And yes face camping is a problem not nerfing noed is not going to solve that in anyway and face camping is far from the biggest problem this game has with all the balance issues bugs, glitches, face camping is an annoyance that some killers use cuz they wont get a kill any other way. I have no idea why you think changing a useless perk like noed is going to prevent camping. Camping and tunneling will always be a thing hence some perks using to counter that oh but wait for your logic i forgot Borrowed Time or D. Strike doesn't counter tunneling because "having to use a perk to turnnel a perk isn't a counter"
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Your whole argument of noed being too strong
Not my argument. My argument is that NOED is trash design.
can be argued about the 3 overly used survivor perks that are powerful for just existing.
Are they though? Are they really?
I don't camp, tunnel or slug, and despite most survivors bringing at least 2 of those 3 perks, I've been DS'd only two or three times, and the only time I hit a BT is if the unhooked survivor is bodyblocking me.
a killer having to ignore a survivor for 60 seconds because he MIGHT have d.strike adds up, a killer waiting 12 seconds to hit a survivor who was unhooked right in front of him because he MIGHT have borrowed time
That's why you don't go for the unhooked survivor but instead go for literally any of the other three targets. Seriously, don't tunnel, don't camp, and you won't have any issue with these perks, unless someone is trying to bait you into a decisive strike, in which case you can just leave them slugged for half a minute to waste more of their time than yours.
These perks are fulfilling their intended goals. Not effectively by any stretch of the imagination, but they ARE a deterrent to camping and tunnelling. If you consider these perks to be problematic, very effective, or passively effective in the way that NOED is, YOU are the problem. YOU are trying to camp and tunnel.
And yes face camping is a problem not nerfing noed is not going to solve that in anyway and face camping is far from the biggest problem this game has with all the balance issues bugs, glitches, face camping is an annoyance that some killers use cuz they wont get a kill any other way.
Facecamping absolutely is the game's biggest problem, because the balance issues you mention are locked in place due to the existence of facecamping. Gens go too fast? Well too bad, we can't slow them down, because that would be a buff to facecamping. Killer buffs? Buffs to facecamping you mean.
Even Lethal Pursuer, which is an overall fantastic perk that feels VERY rewarding to use as a killer, becomes a problem due to facecamping.
It's just tangled up with every problem the game has.
I have no idea why you think changing a useless perk like noed is going to prevent camping.
It's not, and I never said it would. But at the very least, NOED is a problem for supporting facecamping in much the same way Lethal Pursuer does. And due to this interaction between NOED and facecamping, the killer can literally disable NOED's counterplay by just sitting on hook, because then he either gets free kills from camping or he gets free kills from NOED.
Yes, it's a problem with facecamping. But it's also a problem with NOED's trash-tacular design.
Camping and tunneling will always be a thing hence some perks using to counter that oh but wait for your logic i forgot Borrowed Time or D. Strike doesn't counter tunneling because "having to use a perk to turnnel a perk isn't a counter"
I'm not going to explain again why 'doing bones' is not a counter to NOED, only for you to apparently conflate two entirely different arguments and spin them into yet another thing I never said.
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It was pretty simple to understand, or so I thought at the time of writing. I know that using the killer's power, luckily, eliminates the accumulated seconds towards bloodlust and gets rid of it. Yet, what it shouldn't do is give ranged killers a double choice. They are a little bit slower (Nurse aside, even though she isn't really ranged) because they can cover distances with their ranged powers. With the ability of having bloodlust, as well, they can either shoot from the distance, and hit you, or come close enough (in a matter of seconds) and hit you in melee. I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to hit you in melee and only use their power, they would just have to rely more on that than be allowed to have an easier way with bloodlust. You can't get the full package.
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At lower ranks, that is a valid argument, but in actual high ranks, I've never had a ranged killer bloodlust me, because they have the skills to pay the bills.
Plus even again, it's not too much of an issue. I never had a Bloodlust issue when I got downed, usually when I get the down the only things I factor that annoy me were the hitbox range or my dumb decision.
I've joked about Killers bloodlusting me "you gotta have bloodlust 20 at this point" Funnily enough, I still managed to outloop a killer with bloodlust 3, but wow... it was hard haha.
Only thing I can't loop is Play with your food with 3 tokens and bloodlust 3
Also, what's wrong with letting ranged killers have more choices? Some maps are brutal for ranged killers, should we just say "sorry. You got bad rng, you don't deserve anything to help compensate" that's just top brutal for your own personal opinion though
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No, but we should give survivors a chance at surviving even when they get tunneled. As it stands right now, if you get found and the killer decides to hard tunnel you, you will be going on the hook, sooner or later. You can be "skilled" as much as you want at looping, or predicting what the killer will do. The game is made in a way that you're gonna end up on the hook, anyway. And if you managed to keep the chase going for a while, and pissed the killer off, he's gonna camp you on your first hook, making it also be the last for you. I'm not saying, as I have already stated, that ranged killers should not get the chance of attacking with melee. But with the way the game is spam-friendly (see Clown, Deathslinger, Huntress), allowing them to also bloodlust you when (and if, considering not all ranged killers do so) they run out of ammo, that's a bit overkill. Can I loop a huntress? Sure. Will I escape if she decides to tunnel me? Hell no. That's what doesn't work. If the killer puts a bounty on your head, there is very little you can do to survive, unless you get the best map ever and very good teammates (which is far, very far, from the ones I usually get, for instance).
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Because like all totems it’s a bs perk
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I think you mean 'Like all totems; it's easily counterable but Survivors are lazy and want to speedrun gens without consequence'
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So, my previous comment was deleted as I was typing. So I'll nutshell it.
1.) Spamming killers are unable to recieve bloodlust. It's actually impossible. In addition, every update there was to bloodlust has been a nerf.
That is the latest change. That's right, the max tier 3 bloodlust possible is .6
.6 meters, now if it was what it was originally, I would be inclined to agree with you, but.. no. It's balanced right now and I can still prove it.
2.) You specifically stated "No, but we should give survivors a chance at surviving even when they get tunneled." There are actual perks for this and these new maps being made are extremely survivor friendly. Coldwind is generally hell for killers, and Dead Dawg is generally hell for survivors. There's less survivor hell maps at the moment, the game was one of them, but now it's pallet city.
3) how can you both have issues with spamming killers getting bloodlust? It's literally impossible, Deathslinger and Clown would be the least of your concerns for bloodlust since they can constantly reload on the go, which also shuts off bloodlust. You may have noticed that anytime a power is involved, a generic stat a killer has will be changed. In addition, this would just be a nerf to Huntress and Trickster who missed their power and want to try to secure a hit at least so they have some pressure.
This whole argument seems to be "I hate bloodlust because I'm doing a good job."
Removing bloodlust makes this maps even worse and it actually hurt reading
"Sure, that I know of. BHVR claimed, falsely, to have removed infinites. And although they did, in a way, some loops still act CLOSE to infinites." While you argue that bloodlust should be removed. This is why I said "you play more survivor than killer" because no killer or in between player would ever say something like that.
Also.. what? How can a survivor need more of an easier chance dealing with being chased? The what?
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So cleanse it when you see it? If you aren't being chased, you have the time to sit there and cleanse a totem
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I don't use it much but I do like it. It adds a lot of tension when survivors are starting to breathe easy but it's only troublesome when people don't do bones.
If you see bones you should break the bones.
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NOED is one of those perks that buff killer even if they don't use it because they condition the survivors thinking "should i do totems in case of noed?". If they nerf noed they won't only nerf noed users, they will also nerf killers in general because survivors won't have any reason to waste time breaking dull totems. Same way as DS, BT, UB, DH, deception... are perks that buff survivors even if they don't use them because the killer has to adapt just in case they have them.
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This. I have said this time and again, but get ignored.
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If every survivor did a totem as soon as they found it this perk would be so weak, but running to gens as soon as you finish one and making the game last less than 10 minutes is more valuable than checking totem spawns after every gen done because secondary objectives are meaningless until they aren't, then it's time to be salty and ######### on the killer for running a perk that punishes survivors for focusing on nothing but gens.
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Then you got screwed over by bad teammates. If everybody just cleansed the totems when they see them as they should in the first place, noed would not be an issue yeah it sucks for solo queue, which i am running most of the time, but still i just throw on d hunch and use common sense
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Adrenaline isna perk that activates just based on gens. It has nothing to do with you doing the gens. One survivor who loops all game finally goes down but gets a 2nd chance cause 3 others do the gens. Its in the same category as NOED. Its dependant on other factors but like noed, requires you to do no actual objective.
Im not a fan of Noed, but they're still in the same basis of free perks. And that Exhaustion of Adrenaline still overrides any exhaustion you already have. Giving you 2 perks in one go. 1 - Unbreakable and 2 - sprint burst.
Bloodlust isnt a 5th perk. It gains the killer speed after a very long chase. In the time it takes to get 3 stacks of BL a gen could get done very easily. And most killers break pallets. So to get any meaningful speed boost for it, you need to be in a chase for 45 seconds and break no pallets allowing any survivor with experience a very easy way to prolong the chase. Bloodlust is an extra ability but its by no means on the same level as any perk.
Also, worth pointing out i play both equally, but as ive made new friends lately. i play more survivor. And i still think the free abilities survs have outweigh the killers. But then again im one of those that think a killer should be OP. That doesnt think survs should get out easily. I like the challenge and the fear factor. So i prefer it to be harder and not make it so survs can be far stronger than killers. So this whole "killers crying" argument means nothing to me. Im over the years a 50/50 player and atm more 70/30 surv so its "survs crying" aswell.
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Imagine a very popular boon totem for survivors. That allows them to survive situations where you are about to win a game. Doesn't matter if it's close or whatever. You just increase certain numbers and the whole team gets a comeback. Only 1 perk.
I know the entilted ones will come and say "uNbReAkAbLe" or whatever. I just want to make clear why people don't like this perk. You do everything right as a survivor and sometimes, in order to get your team out, you have to use your time very wisely. Wisely means also ignoring useless dull totems. And then you get punished by noed. You did all 5 gens, the team barely made it but NOED just rules is out.
You can understand it, or leave it as it is. It's frustrating and it doesn't matter how you feel about it. The majority of the survivor players feel frustrated of this perk but after all those years. It never got some QoL changes.
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What does doing all 5 gens have to do with it? The game is literally still open to be won or lost for you, individually, until you leave the match.
Not when the gens pop. Not even when the gates open or you are in the exit gates.
Until you leave, the Killer has not lost his chance to kill you. This is why I hate this 'all 5 gens' nonsense. The game is not over when gens pop. Survivors did not win, and have not 'basically won' just because 5 gens pop. The 5th gen popping is no different from the first gen popping, other than the Exit Gates turning on.
This '5 gens popped, the game is basically over' argument against NoED is just Survivors tacking an arbitrary win condition on the game that does not exist, and then pointing at it as the flaw against NoED. They are inventing a flaw themselves to then point at like it's a real counter-argument.
If NoED teleported people onto the hook after they leave; fine, OP. But until they cross the exit line & leave the match; they have not won.
And it's not 'rewarding failure' either. The Killer's goal is not to stop gens from popping, it's to kill people. He wins by killing, not based on number of gens unpopped. He did not fail just because 5 gens popped, like some people invent as an excuse. Until Survivors leave; he has not failed to kill them, and all bets are open.
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Adrenaline gets activated when all 5 gens have been completed. Sure, you might not have worked on said gens. But if, as you said, you kept the killer busy for all of the match...I'd say you have quite deserved it, probably more than those working on gens. It's not the same thing as NOED, not even in the slightest. Then again, I wouldn't be against more conditions to activate both, even though I'd gladly see NOED simply removed. The biggest (and not the only) difference, though, is that Adrenaline doesn't guarantee you will survive. NOED will guarantee you kills more than likely, as you are bound to have survivors scared of going down and leaving the moment they see the noob... erm, the killer has NOED, or they will try being altruistic and take the place of the previously hooked guy. You don't simply get instadowns, you even get increased move speed. NOED could simply be renamed Hex: Let the game play for you.
And if you think that a mere 15 seconds of chase is a "long" time... I don't know how you perceive time. Because on lots of maps, Bloodlust 1 does make a tremendous difference, and allows hits that shouldn't have been a thing (along with those that already should not be a thing, like being hit from the other side of a dropped pallets or when you are 50m away from a vaulted window).
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'NOED will guarantee you kills more than likely'
NoED does not guarantee Kills. The Killer still has to find, chase, and hit people. But Survivor mains acts like it just insta-downs there where they stand. Stop with this lie. 🤦♂️
'leaving the moment they see the noob... erm, the killer has NOED'
Ah yes, the other Survivor main tactic; insult Killers in an attempt to pressure them into not using certain perks or not playing a certain way. You may have meant it as a joke but it's still something Survivor mains do. (Example: Only bad Killers use NoED. You don't want to be a bad Killer, right?)
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In fact, I am not a bad killer. I go out of my way to NOT tunnel people, and I always refused, categorically, to use NOED, and still do to these days. It's funny that you like to assume I am a survivor main just because I express my hatred towards something I hate both when I am on the receiving end or when I play the role that could use that thing. But if there is one thing killer mains do good, it's calling others survivor mains just so they can somehow try to justify them showing the truth for what it is, and avert their attention onto something else. And if you think that just "insulting" others is enough to change the way they play... I don't know if you're just naive or if you are faking that too.
Anyway, grammar is important. What I said was, exactly, "NOED will guarantee kills MORE THAN LIKELY", which is to say it's not going to be like that 100% of the time. But if you only want all or nothing, black or white, then let me add something else: NOED will grant, when it happens, kills that are 100% undeserved. Oh, and another thing.. I know that anything goes, when it comes to trying to have a point but... Well, where could survivors be, since NOED activates when there is just a single thing left to do for them to escape? Maybe in a fridge? On another map? In the lobby? Oh, wait, that's right! Near the exit gates, that the killer sees wherever he is and to which he can now get even faster thanks to, you guessed it, NOED.
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'NOED will grant, when it happens, kills that are 100% undeserved.'
😂😂😂😂😂😂
BS. The Killer found the Survivor, chased the Survivor, and hit the Survivor. He deserved the kill. This statement is some of the Survivor dogma they use to claim NoED is 'OP'; that it somehow magically gives Killers kills without him putting in the same work he put in for the entire match.
Every time someone says 'NoED gives undeserved Kills!', it's clear they don't know what they are talking about. They are regurgitating the same tired line in order to push the 'NoED is OP' BS to everyone. They literally have no valid argument so they bleat the lie.
Guess what? Coup De Grace lets the Killer lunge further! Does this mean hits are undeserved because the Survivor would normally be too far away? Nope! Because that's how the perk works. Just like NoED does it's job, like a perk.
I've torn apart that 'UnDeSeRvEd KiLlS 🤪' argument so many times that I'm bored of it. Keep spewing the lie. Keep pretending NoED is a problem instead of learning to do bones. Keep trying to invent flaws for it because the truth is that NoED is balanced.
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We'll see each other when survivors will have boon totems that, as long as they are up, give them Adrenaline for the entire match and two more health states. Saying the kill is deserved because the killer had to chase the survivor, with increased speed to help him do that, and an instadown.... It's like saying you deserve a job because you are able to spell your name. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
And about Coup De Grace, nice try. But it doesn't give you an instadown automatically, it is consumed when you use it AND can still be missed. Sayonara, "Power" guy.
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If a killer is god awful at practically everything (applying pressure, chasing, defending gens, etc.) there is a 90% chance they use noed, which is why I go totem hunting when I see a killer like that. You just immediately know they require instadowns and haste to accomplish anything
Edit: very rarely you run into a memeing killer with a full endgame build, which is an entirely different story
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Your ability to invent BS does not make you right.
There's no such thing as an 'undeserved kill'. It's a flat out lie invented by Survivor mains to create a flaw with NoED, because they're too lazy to do bones.
Survivors want to lick gens for 5 minutes and twerk out the exit gates, and NoED prevents this. But NoED is actually pretty balanced, so they invented 'undeserved Kills' and 'basically lost when 5 gens pop' in order to have something to cry about. And now other lazy people have picked up the rallying cries of lazy Survivor mains everywhere as they attempt to nerf everything they don't like about Killers.
Git gud.
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Talking about people going after what others say, just for the sake of it, and then you come up with a catchphrase. A walking contradiction, ladies and gentlemen. But, credit where it is due, you actually gave me a very good laugh. Someone stating "git gud", when he's defending NOED... Let's say that it's like a cheater who sets a multiplayer match to give him the win as soon as the round starts, laughable. Ridiculous. Ludicrous.
"They invented" undeserved kills, right. Because getting kills that you didn't manage to get for the whole match, just because you now instadown and move faster than you should, that is definitely deserved. You're funny, dude. Really funny. 😂😂😂 The best joke of the century would not be able to stand up to the things you say. Let's end this here, I'd be talking to bots if this was how I meant to waste my time. See you, "pro".
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With regards to NOED, I'll refer to my last round when I played Trapper against 2 brown ranks survivors (although 1 had a varied mix of perks, and acted in a way that suggested skills far in excess of a new player), and 2 red ranks at number 1. It is highly likely those 2 at least were in communication by how they were playing and co-ordinating. Both were excellent players. I had double-hooked one of them and 1 hooked another when the final gen was done.
When the 5 gens were done, the 2 reds were left. One had been hooked and the other finished the final gen, but was wounded. They risked themselves to unhook their friend, and I downed her after that from her injured state. The Adam had Adrenaline and came off the hook fully healed. I chased him and downed him with an activated NOED. 4k.
So, I feel that in certain situations such as this, NOED balanced the playing field as a direct counter to Adrenaline in that match. So it certainly gives credibility that in certain cases it's absolutely a fair counter to such situations, yet also has many situations where it may be too powerful, and some where it becomes a wasted slot. One match as survivor I was cleansing a totem when the 5th gen popped and the totem lit up as I was doing it! A few seconds later and it was gone. The killer had zero use.
But ultimately it's a perk that has its place, can be used as an endgame tactic or an insurance policy against perks or add-ons that give quick heals. It could be used by "bad" killers, but that viewpoint does carry a level of bitterness with it. It's got its place, has counter and actually holds one of the very few terror aspects left in this game. So ultimately, although they could take away the speed bonus (which feels useless anyway), it's fair to keep it in.
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I dont mind NOED at all as I check totems and usually play with map in game due to huge amount of Hex:Ruin and/or NOED.
What disgusting is about NOED is killer players theirselves. They almost allow to finish all gens, defending their totem at all costs, then when they have access to noed buff they down one and camp him until other comes to try to help him.
Now, if you have good survivors everyone goes look for a totem , if not they mostly lose their lifes to that killer -> he gets PIP , he ranks up and makes high tier matches a GARBAGE.
Those kinds of matches are very boring - killer is not challenging at all, you can loop him while having a shower or eating a dinner.
The killer is 99% relying on NOED if:
- high rank and still cant catch ppl on loops
- never breaks a chase to stop gens being done
- defending noed totem at all cost
- not caring about gens at all
- simply bad behaviour overall
- camping and tunneling
End game chat excuse:
- "you gen rushed me so i tunneled at camped" (since beginning of the game, yeah)
How to make his life miserable:
- check for totems when going from gen to gen
- if somehow you cant find noed totem, sacrifice the poor guy and leave - do not let him get more points
Amen
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That is basically the best way to check for NOED. If a killer sucks, they will use NOED.
Also Clowns use NOED extremely often for some reason.
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Did you just equate NoED to cheating? That shows how laughably little you know game balance, buddy.
But you're going to keep stomping around like a child, screaming about how NoED is 'unfair' and 'unfun' because you want to speedrun gens with no punishments for ignoring totems. Just like every entitled Survivor main.
NoED is fine. Survivors need to put on t heir big boy pants and learn to play around Killer perks instead of screeching for everythign they don't like to be nerfed.
It's hilarious to watch a Killer hit the PTB and, within an hour, lazy Survivor mains are screaming for nerfs because demanding changes is easier than learning to play. And they apply this same lazy mentality to Killer perks, too.
Survivor Mains: Why learn to improve when you can call something 'Unfun' and pretend nerfing it is for the health of the game!
NoED is fine. Only Survivors who want to actively ignore totems pretend otherwise. And every point they spew against NoED is garbage they themselves invented to scream about.
'UnEaRnEd KiLlS!' - If the Killer found you and hit you; he earned the kill. No amount of crying changes this fact.
'It ReWaRdS lOsInG!' - If you have not left; you have not won. This is also an immutable fact of the game. Doing 5 gens is not 'basically losing/winning'. There is no 'basically losing/winning'. You either lose, or you win. You die, or you escape. You don't kind escape or kind of die.
So keep screeching those lying points...I mean 'talking points', sorry. I know Survivor mains love to lie and pretend their blather is fact. It won't change the hard fact that NoED is fine, and y'all need to learn to do bones.
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Ya idk why pepole see this as a "free kill"
It A. Takes up a useful perk slot
B. Survivors have the entire round to counter it by simply cleansing totems.
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The facts still stands
1) NOED 100% counterable by doing bones. You see one, cleanse it. If every survivor does it boom noed is gone, and if you don't trust your randoms, small game/detective's hunch/map mutiple ways to spot them yourselves.
2)Noed isn't a free win or a free kill if you take the time do bones and even if you cleansed all the bones and noed wasn't a perk they had, congrats you got some extra BP
3)Noed exist and is "bad design" because of the killers who do not have to ability to patrol 7 gens while pressuring 4 survivors at once. Killers who cannot run across the map or teleport to a spot at will are at a huge disadvantage to do their job as a killer. NOED isn't a bad design and it isn't broken or OP its just a lame perk to go against but completely understandable as to why some killers use/need it.
4)Most survivor mains want to throw around stuff like "a killer can't always expect to get a 4k or always expect to win" well guess what survivors neither do we. You lose because you didn't cleanse a totem so noed popped? Oh well suck it up and start the next match. You win some you lose some.
You can hate going against noed and find it annoying. Nobody is saying you need to like the perk but its not strong its not OP, its extremely useless throughout the ENTIRE game and even in the end game if you just cleanse a totem. I mean to be fair a killer can have you on hook, dying, last gen pops and somebody unhooks you and your adrenaline pops. You are fully healed. You want to say noed doesn't have a counter whats the counter for adrenaline? Just curious what makes adrenaline fine when there is NOTHING a killer can do to stop that, but NOED is sooooo bad even though you can stop it? Whats the difference here?
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At least somebody gets it xD
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Keeping a killy busy doesnt mean you deserve an extra chance when you finally do go down. And as someone stated, Noed still requires you to find and hit someone. Noed does not guarantee kills either. It increases your chance you will get 1 or a few hooks. If anyone else is dumb enough to approach a killer while noed is active then quite frankly, they dont deserve to go down in two hits. Dont play dumb and you'll live.
If as you say survs leave, then thats what...1 kill? or 1 extra kill. Most killers will camp after that, so people can easily go and find the totem and totally cancel it. You have made no valid point in what you said about Adrenaline and if anything just reaffirms the belief that Noed and Adrenaline are pretty much the same type of undeserving 2nd chance perks. And that remark about let the game play for you. Well...Dead Hard. Thats all ill say to that.
In regards to bloodlust ill just say, i dont have many issues with it when im playing survivor. If you know how to loop then BL isnt a huge deal. You should be looping a pallet by the time BL starts, and during that loop you can waste excessive amounts of time for the killer. Doing it fairly well will result in a pallet going down and then the killer has 2 choices. Chase round and round for another waste of time, or break the pallet and lose bloodlust. Either way the survivor is buying more time for his team, which is what a survivor being chased is meant to do. BL was put into the game at a time when there were maps/layouts which made it almost impossible to catch up. Nowadays the layouts aren't as heavy sided towards survivors, but there are still multiple places on maps, sometimes next to each other where things such as jungle gyms where chases just seem endless and you either waste a lot of time or give up and go after someone else after probably already investing quite a lot of time on that chase.
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Still comparing things that aren't even remotely close, I see. Guess it is difficult to come up with a valid point, when you can't think of any. Dead Hard. A perk that doesn't even work properly the vast majority of the time, and that at the very least (when it does), requires you to be close to a pallet and look at where you're gonna be doing it, while simoultaneously keeping an eye on the killer. And if there is no pallet and you use it anyway, the killer will have wasted what, two seconds? Oh, noes! Not to mention that only people who just bought the game do not wait for it happen before striking, nowadays. Doesn't take that much skill, nothing to say on that. But the skill it requires is still enormous, compared to a NOED, the Spirit of perks. I have to say, though, that I like how you people try to phrase stuff in order to suit your purposes. "If anyone approaches the killer". Yup, killers are not, at all, moving faster than survivors in this game. And they don't either move faster thanks to tunneling and NOED's activation. Nah, let's just skip that part, right? After all, cows enter slaughterhouses because they want to become meat, isn't it? I don't see this discussion going anywhere worthwhile. Not with you, at least. So let's just end this here, shall we? You'll keep being a killer and I'll keep trying to look at the game from both perspectives, as it should be.
I'll just leave you with a list of perks that do the work in the killer's stead, so you'll have something to think about. Maybe.
- A Nurse's Calling: Did you lose a survivor? Is a survivor that you aren't even chasing anymore busy healing himself/being healed from others? Do not fear, now you can see their auras from a range that is bigger than that of their screams of pain. Just look around, dinner's served.
- BBQ & Chili: Having trouble doing something as basic as patrolling the place where survivors should be, gens? No worries, BBQ is here to find them for you. And if you don't see one or two, you know they are more than likely close to the hooked guy, so you can even camp him. But wait, I can already see you saying that you use it for the Bloodpoints, right?
- NOED: No need to explain this. I like to think that, at the very least, those who use NOED do so because, like those who play Ash on R6, or with the VMP on CoD Black Ops, do so because they are aware they suck. Because if they thought to be skilled, well... The joke of the century would not be able to stand up to them.
- Ruin: Kicking gens for you, regressing them at double the speed. You don't even need to perform the damage interaction anymore. And before you say anything, because I know you would, it is needed. Doesn't change the fact that it does your work for you.
- Infectious Fright: Same as BBQ, though to a lesser extent.
- Haunted Grounds: Mini, early game NOED.
- Spirit Fury: After 2 pallets destroyed from you, the next one will be for free. Pair Enduring with it and you get a FREE hit.
- Rancor: Get to know where all survivors are when a gen is completed, along with an inastadown AND mori on your obsession, when the last generator is repaired.
- Devour Hope: This requires you to actively gain tokens for it, but when you do, it eliminates the double hit mechanic AND gives you, potentially, a first hook mori.
- Iron Maiden: Again, another perk to give away the survivor's location, without direct involvement from you.
- Dragon's Grip: Again, another perk that does give away the fact that A) The survivor is on a gen: B) He is now an instadown: C) You now know his general location.
- Make Your Choice: Same as above.
- Surveillance: Get told when a gen that was regressing is stops doing so. Hence, you are communicated that survivors are now on it.
- Discordance: You now know not only what generator is being worked on, but are also given the location of TWO survivors.
- Corrupt Intervention: Want to get a head start? We got you. Generators will be blocked as soon as the round starts.
- I'm All Ears: Survivors that run near you will be shown to you even if you had NO IDEA they were there. Perhaps they were on the other side of a wall and you couldn't see nor hear them. Not a problem, let the game help you.
- Thrilling Tremors: Want to know which generators are being worked on/where some survivors are when you pick someone up? Here you go.
- Surge: Down survivors near gens, have them kicked for you.
- Deathbound: Once survivors heal far from you, you will know where they are AND they won't hear you coming.
- Thrill Of The Hunt: Want to know when survivors are cleansing totems, making them require more time to do it? Have at it, you don't need to be aware of them doing so, the game tells you.
- Crowd Control: Vaults will be blocked, without you doing so with Bamboozle, when survivors fast vault them.
- Hoarder: Get notificated when survivors start interacting with chests, giving you their location.
- Undying: Same as above, but you get to keep your Ruin this time. Double the game working for you.
- Lethal Pursuer: You now know where all survivors are as soon as the match starts.
- Whispers/Spies From The Shadows: As many other perks, gives you the survivor's location without you having any direct involvement in it.
- Bloodlust: Not even a perk, which is already powerful on its own, yet it rewards you for doing one of the most controversial things in the game, tunneling.
Of course, this is just a list of the perks that play the game for you, without taking into account how much each of them is used or how stronger some perks are compared to others. It's just a pretty exhaustive list of perks that make your life much easier, without you having any direct involvement in those things, or very little at best. As I said, let's not keep this going. Whatever you might have to say, just spare it. Or if you do, be aware that I am not even going to bother reading it anymore. Good day to you.
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Like i mentioned in another thread, some killers are HARD TUNNELING the first survivor and then using NOED at the end. i also mentioned that okay, if a killer is hard tunneling and ignorning everybody else, even chasing me when im right blank in your face, okay i will smash the gens out and then they lose right? i play both sides so i know how it works.
but then he gets more kills in the end when we smash the gens out after he tunneled the person outa the game. its not OP at all, u can counter it, but the real question is, is this fun? no its not fun at all. the fun part is getting chased but if a killer dosent wana do that and chases only 1 person all game, then just hits us with a NOED when we are trying to open the gates at the end, that is just SUPER LAME gameplay and if your a toxic player, u can do that every game and probably bank atleast 2 kills doing it.
remember OTZDARVA did a video like over a year ago showing him camping the first person he hooked then hitting people with NOED at the end if they smashed the gens out? otz was getting loads of kills doing it, he wasnt having fun, he was doing it for testing purposes too see how stupid it can be depending on how a killer plays.
so yes your right, NOED dosent need a nerf, but i do think some changes are needed to stop this lame gameplay that isnt fun for anybody, unless your toxic.
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I don't like the fact it distorts BHVRs statistics (you know, 2 kills on average) and when it's used by killers without skill who just camp and tunnel. And i really mean CAMP and TUNNEL hard. Also NOED is way stronger vs. solos as SWFs can tell eachother and count the totems. As a solo i even run Dectives Hunch + Inner and can't prevent it from happening most of the matches. Either the gens are way to quick or way to slow. But the biggest problem with NOED for me is, that it takes no skill. It's just about a perkslot and rng. Not a good designed perk imo, a rework would be nice.
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Noed exist and is "bad design" because of the killers who do not have to ability to patrol 7 gens while pressuring 4 survivors at once.
That's like fixing a leaky water tank by cutting the hole out.
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Because they don't know Detective's Hunch and maps exist.
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Thank you very much for proving my point and showing yourself up because this essays worth of writing is consisting of mostly absolute nonsense and the fact you even said "i guess its difficult to come up with a valid point when you cant think of any" is total hypocrisy considering the amount of rubbish you proceed to write.
The only thing in this essay you have written that is true is about this going nowhere, because you clearly have paid no attention to what i have said earlier so allow me to recap very simply for you.
I am not a killer main. I play both equally. Thus i can see things from both perspectives. You claim to be seeing things from both but you're not. You are just launching a diatribe of nonsense towards killers.
The whole point of these discussions were, NOED is very easily countered, as is almost every single perk you have listed in this tirade of a post. But for some reason you just will not accept that, and will not accept that while i AGREE NOED is a second chance stupid perk, so are varius other survivor perks. Both sides have perks like that. But you wont see that and only see it from a survivor point of view. Each of your arguments have been countered by me, or others in this discussion but still, you just wont have it and your ego will now refuse to let it go.
And i dont care if you read or not, others will and they too will see you are talking utter garbage and have no clue on anything thats being discussed in this topic. So i thank you for proving me, and others right, and not replying anymore because it'll save everyone from feeling that little bit stupider for reading the crap you come out with.
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Survivors have tools to prevent NOED from activating but they don't wanna use them because their second chance perks are more important.
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You forgot the part where they still want it gone, so they want the devs to just nerf it or remove it for them. 😁
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even if they nerfed or removed it there would be no point in doing totems anymore.
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Agreed. The thread of NoED is what is supposed to make Survivors leave gens to do totems.
Yet some Survivors don't realize this & want it to clearly note when it's in a match from the start, which would make it basically useless; it would either 100% get cleansed before it procs, or Survivors would ignore totems when it's not in a match.
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The only thing I would probably do is have it notify the survivors immediately after the last gen pops.
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In fact, the problem is not even Noed, what happens is that anything that clearly shows that the player won because of that and not because he played well ends up generating revolt on both sides, and honestly speaking, in the current state that the DBD finds itself, it has a lot to fix.
But I personally think that the noed is not part of them, I think that being knocked down by a chainsaw at the beginning of the match and being chased later is still much more boring than a noed, because there's nothing to do if the killer wants to stand in front of you until you die on the hook.
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The problem is people's mindsets.
People will say 'You used <x> perk, so you did not win right!' or 'You did not play well; the perk did all the work!' or 'You were losing until <x> perk won for you!'
The problem: None of that is true. Survivors don't win when 5 gens pop. Killers don't lose when 5 gens pop. Until Survivors leave the match; they have not won. Perks are MEANT to do specific things; if a Killer or Survivor makes it work & they win, then they won. Period.
But people will continue to say 'You did not win because <x> Killer/Perk is cheap' instead of 'What can I do to not lose next time?' since they don't want to accept that they lost. Their ego screams 'It was the Perk/Killer that did it! Not skill!', so they come onto the forms to scream that whatever killed them should be nerfed so they can play as godly as they know they are in their heart of hearts.
NoED is not Op. Nor is it cheap. Nor does it 'reward failure' because a Killer has not failed until he cannot kill you. As long as a Survivor is on the map; the Killer has not failed to kill them.
This arbitrary 'We won at 5 gens!' mindset needs to go away, and I bet almost no one would whine about NoED anymore. Because the mindset is inventing a flaw with the perk that DOES NOT EXIST. The Killer was not losing, and has not lost, just because 5 gens popped, or the exit gates open.
He only loses once Survivors cross the threshold to leave the map.
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"It takes too much time to do totems"
*gets unhooked runs across the map and spends 32 seconds self caring*
I spend most of my time playing survivor and seeing nothing but time being wasted. SWF enjoy goofing off pointing and tea bagging at each other or at the killer sometimes. But doing bones take to long. I've been hooked and everybody just slowly crouch walking along the corners of the map. But doing bones take too long.
Ya'll for real just stop making excuses yes in DBD every second counts and if you have time to goof off you have time to cleanse the totems you see on your way to the gens. If NOED pops and you are that salty about losing a match, open the door and leave the dude on hook to die. And come on its not even like you need to even survive the match to pip up or anything.
NOED is an annoying perk but not even a strong perk. Its easily countered by simply not rushing gens and taking a few seconds to cleanse totems. You got ways to spot it and you got ways to cleanse quicker. If you choose not to do it then okay but don't get mad or salty you go down to noed.
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Because:
- It rewards killers for not sacrificing everyone before all gens are complete
- Because you don't know whether a killer has equipped NOED. You can waste time cleansing all the dull totems (with all the problems that entails) and the killer might not even have NOED. So in the end rushing gens was the better option.
- Don't like NOED? "Just equip a totem perk" doesn't really make sense. I also don't like Spirit so I should always bring Iron Will? I don't like Legion so I should bring resilience to rush gens faster? I don't like depending on my team so I should bring Self Care every game? I don't want to be seen with BQAC so I should equip Distortion? I can't counteract everything in this game and even if I could I'd like to use perks suited to my own play style.
- There's no default totem counter. So as solo queue when do I know all totems are cleansed? What if I waste time cleansing 4 totems and I can't find or presume the 5th one has been cleansed but it hasn't and the killer has NOED? That's a lot of time wasted and remember, we don't even know if the killer has NOED in the first place.
- What about progressing through the game? Imagine going against a Blight with Ruin, Tinkerer and Undying. Your first thought should be powering through gens or finding those 2 hexes. You are playing poorly if you're cleansing dull totems. Imagine someone's on a hook, someone's unhooking and healing that person and the other person is being chased and you're cleansing dull totems. I guess if you never get to end game you never encounter NOED though.
- It's too good with Nurse.
Also, to note it's almost always better just to cleanse NOED after it activates so you get gens done ASAP. No time wasted cleansing dull totems and as I said the killer might not even have NOED.
No tldr unfortunately.
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1) It...rewards Killers for not killing everyone? #########?
2) That's the point of NoED; risk Vs Reward. You risk doing totems and are rewarded if you catch it. The Killer risks running the trial with 3 perks and is rewarded with end-game power if a totem lasts. It exists to force Survivors off of gens by the sheer threat it MIGHT exist. That is it's point.
3) Again; not knowing of NoED exists IS THE POINT. Though a totem counter would be nice for solo-q's.
4) That. is. The. Point. You don't know if it exists. Your risk doing totems or not. That is the damn point! That. Is. The Point! You have to weigh the risks vs the reward. You have to USE YOU BRAIN and figure out of you've seen 4 perks on the Killer or not.
5) ...What? Because of 1 Killer, it needs a nerf? No. Your 'points' have shown you don't understand the existence of NoED at all. If NoED did not exist as it does, or if it told people 'I AM IN A MATCH!'; Survivors would know when it's NOT in a match and just genrush safely.
If Survivors knew it was in a match from the start; they would cleanse every totem ASAP and it would NEVER see endgame, which is the ONLY time it works.
It HAS to exist as an unknown factor; that unknown factor is literally the only way to get Survivors off of gens for 5 seconds. And given how many people whine about NoED killing them; it's clear they STILL don't do totems, then expect the perk to be changed so they can continue to not do totems!
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Exactly, the guys are psychologically affected when the noed activates because they want to open the exit gate and run away, and the killer knowing this will go to the gates to get them, this is normal, if you compare with the "Devour hope ", which has a similar function. The survivors seem to be much more concerned with purifying his totem than noed's because they know they need to do this to continue the game, when when noed activates they would only need to open the gate and escape.
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