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Pinhead is weak
But I'm sure you've heard this 100 times by now.
Comments
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There are many people on the forum who would agree with you. On that note, there is also a small minority that seems convinced that he either A. needs more time or B. can only be played by people that have figured out the 'right' way to use him (whatever that means).
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The "right" way to use him is way too map dependent. Yeah, on the smallest maps in the game that are open I can get the box often, but the majority of maps aren't like that.
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I'm on your side, but that doesn't help either of us. BVHR designed this killer without testing him properly (again), taking map design into account (again), and how the game is played across all levels (AGAIN). It's actually kind of impressive - this is cartoon levels of absurdity.
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Pinhead is not weak at all~ Actually i would say he is T2 close to T1 if he use pink add-on. Just do not use his power easily, i mean use it around pallet area and safe zone. He is very good at block that safe zone. Also he have very good perk, it can give u at least 2 mins extra time to catch some peoples. If u still can not find anyone, maybe skill issues?
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I think he's not as bad as people are saying, but he certainly can use some tweaks. I've been finding a lot of success in a hunt the box off of survivors with hoarder since getting the chain hunts to activate helps so much.
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He's pretty awful if you aren't consistently getting chain hunts,
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His chain movement is too loose. A slight turn can tuck you over which shouldn't happen.
Hitting his chain only do so much as they break easily even when they buff him.
Bhvr development process on killer are extremely lenient and poorly done. I even wonder if they test him for like an hour and that it.
The dev are going too slow on changes which is quite concerning.
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"Guys, he's not weak! He has an ultra-rare add-on that you won't be able to take into every match!"
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figured out the 'right' way to use him (whatever that means).
That means they've had good experiences with him doesnt really mean anything most of the time. Only time I can remember where a killer became significantly better because of a specific playstyle in recent memory is twins.
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I'm starting to warm up to him a little bit. i thought he was flat out bad watching otzdarva as well as playing him the first and second day. But his passive slowdowns are much appreciated as somebody who enjoys pursuing people lethally.
I'm relatively starved add on wise, but double Chain Hunt addons have been working well for me.
I'm starting to get the hang of not cutting my own chains and trying to be smart with chain usage. Pinhead has mitigation against Iron Will much like Plague and Nemesis, but he also mitigates Dead Hard which is actually really nice. Whether or not survivors Box rush or hold the Box, there is value to be had either way.
As per his lunge, I don't know if it's bugged or if its my own problem. So for now I mostly "wave" my attack to try and spread out my hit. I wonder if its Pinhead's attack animation that is throwing people off. Remember, lots of people were convinced for a long time that Freddy had a superlunge when it was really just his weird weapon throwing people's perspective off.
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So that's 1/25 killers that have had opinions shifted based on an alteration of playstyle. In the twins case, a heavy emphasis on slugging and camping (much to the chagrin of the player base). I think I'll go with with odds that Pinhead is not going anywhere without help vs someone figuring out a magical cure by shifting how he's played. It just seems to be the safer bet.
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Fine, let's do it your way.
Let's assume that you're completely right, and you're the savior Pinhead enthusiasts need. You've discovered the magic playstyle required to make him a solid killer against survivors at your level. Of course you realize I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here in a massive way. So, now I ask: how do these screenshots help anyone? Do you have any videos you can show us that demonstrate your techniques? How do you use the chains, and where do you utilize them to get maximum value? Then, based on the videos you show, we can see the caliber of survivor you're pitted against using your playstyle.
"I 4k'd and here is the screenshot" doesn't give any valuable insight as to how and what conditions led to it. There's too much information missing here.
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Thanks, will review. This might let people see how you're coming to your conclusions.
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His power is pretty fun on Haddonfield, too.
I don't see a lot of other people shooting through walls, but it's actually one of the better qualities of his power.
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Well, when survivor drop pallets while chained, they can't fast vault while still chained. (dunno if that's intended). Using hoarders, (gives you a noise notification when the cube is also picked up) then Franklin's to make em drop it is really fun.
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Post-Review: So suddenly everything you're saying makes sense, and I'll tell you why.
- None of these survivors seem particularly skilled or capable. As a result, all of your chases are fairly quick on a map that is not friendly to Pinhead in the slightest (since the entire thing is one big corner, and corners crack his chains like nothing).
- Ruin stays up the entire game on a map with fairly decent totem spots.
- No generators were being done past the first one completed.
- I didn't see much in the way of real looping ability from any of the survivors, meaning: no linking of multiple windows or creating strong loops by pre-dropping pallets with distance on the killer.
This is why I ask for video, because I have games like this with Pinhead as well. I didn't see anything truly new, exceptional, or revolutionary in your gameplay. That's not an insult, you play exactly like most Pinhead's I've seen so far across multiple platforms. What I did notice is that the survivors you are playing against are clearly either very new, very bad, or have absolutely no idea how this killer functions. If the majority of your matches are like this, then I can totally see you drawing the conclusions you've come to. It makes more sense in this context. I can assure you, however, that your tune would change against competent (but not necessarily godlike) survivors actually focusing on the objective, ruin-be-damned.
Every killer in the game would function well against those survivors on that map, based on what I've seen. That wouldn't be fair to use as an accurate gauge of killer capability, in my opinion.
Thank you for providing footage though, I appreciate that.
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Yeah he's trash against good survivors. Basically an M1 killer unless you chain someone in an open field.
He's just as hard as Nurse, I'd argue, yet one makes you a God if you're good with them and the other.. a slightly better Clown?
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Don't mean to offend, but that video does not show any great skill by you landing skill shots, or strength of the killer. What it showed was low skill survivors playing poorly, and you making easy skill shots while missing harder ones (like most people). Hell, that first survivor ran right toward you and let you hit her, then you chased her down and she trapped herself in the shower. And, several other times the survivors were just standing there waiting for you. That was not high level game play, and Clown could have easily done a much better job.
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What is the bug? I think I may have experienced it but I thought I was just missing?
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For me the whole box mechanic needs an overhaul.
It feels like it hinders him more than it is actually helping him.
You teleport to a survivor who is already in a better spot than you are. Granting them the upper hand for holding part of his power hostage.
Basically it feels like bad design when the box itself its suppose to make that survivor feel threatened. Yet, you are the one who feels like you should have never teleported.
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I think the developers are still operating on this weird (and misguided) idea that the survivors are scared of the killer. Yet again, this just shows that they're too focused on how they 'want' the game to be experienced and not the reality of the situation. Delusion, arrogance, stubbornness, or a healthy dose of all those things across multiple people in power positions on the development team. Bright days ahead, I guess.
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Yeah, I am not really sure who is at the drawing board proposing these design ideas tbh. I do think that they need to work on the whole "feeling threatened by a killer" conversation because so far we aren't even finding a happy medium let alone a spot where the killer actually feels like a threat through their power.
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Not sure why you put "better" in quotes. Those were bad survivors, and the quotes seems to indicate that you don't see that. I am much better than they were, and I am a middling survivor, at best. To be fair, they could have been playing chill on purpose because they were trying to figure out how the new killer's mechanics worked. Unfortunately, you can't prove how powerful PH is by showing about as chill a match as I have ever seen. If you want to prove he is a t1 killer, then you are going to have to do it in a sweaty high MMR game against really skilled survivors.
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Launch Legion had a similar case but the change didn't actually make him that much stronger just really annoying to play against. Other then that though yeah it best to assume pinhead is generally weak currently though not unplayably bad(personal opinion).
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The amount of people playing him speaks for itself really. He is not good, fam. He is not absurdly bad or anything, he is still playable. But, like, no idea why people be fronting.
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As someone who hits his chains pretty often he’s not all that. I’m a HUGE hellraiser fan and to see him be barely grazing C tier pains me. His power has so much potential but even when you hit chains most of the time it feels like it does nothing because of not only how easily they break but because most loops are long enough so they can still get away/use the environment to just break all of them within seconds.
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I'd counter that maybe you should be sending us video of your game. Because I think this is very much a you problem. I'm not the person that you're responding to, but my games with PinHead are very similar. I'm getting 4ks in the majority of my games. But to me his attack feels very Blight like, so I just very quickly picked it up and started doing well with it.
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Am I the only one who find his teleport super wonky ? Somehow there is a huge delay beetween the moment you get the killer instinct notification and being allowed to teleport. If you are allowed at all, as sometimes you just can't for no clear reason.
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Thicc - he's a hard killer and can be frustrating to learn. It's not quite as bad as when I was learning Blight but he's definitely up there frustration wise. Which is why I'm loving him. I really like that high risk, high reward play style. He is also somewhat deceptive. His kit offers so much map pressure it's insane. I have had so many games where I'll 4k at 5 gens. The poor survivors are trying to do everything. Get generators, find and solve the box, save survivors. He's got a ton of built in pressure.
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Here's the thing, I'm not claiming that I cannot get kills with Pinhead. That was never the argument. The point I've been making is that against good survivors or those that understand his mechanics, he cannot contend at a reasonable pace. I'm not counting games where I do well and the match is obviously very relaxed. In order to be convinced that Pinhead is a good killer, I would need to see some sort of consistent performance by him against competent survivors. Not necessarily the best, but not the worst, either. I wouldn't post any videos of my own matches unless I could demonstrate that I've gone against teams of a high skill level, with this killer, while running the best perks.
Then, I would need a large sample size of matches against said team (or a comparably skilled team), and be able to replicate wins against them at a reasonable rate (let's say 50 matches are played). A win in my mind (since there is no defined win condition that BVHR will share with us) is either a 3k w/hatch, or a 4k. 2k is a draw, and anything else is a loss. Key escapes don't count.
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You won't do what you've asked someone else to do. That really puts you in a bad light.
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Not really, since I'm not making the claim that he's strong, I'm making the opposite claim. More importantly, what I would show are matches similar to his own: very chill, with nothing new or exceptional. I get it though, it seems you're looking for a 'gotcha' moment rather than considering what I'm saying. I'm willing to be completely wrong on everything I've said about this killer (indeed, I welcome it). I'd encourage you to read the post you quoted very closely before commenting, because I laid out the conditions in which I would post evidence. Posting chill games against average or new survivors doesn't disprove my point.
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I noticed this too. And also when you come out of teleport the delay before you can do anything is weird, and I hate how your camera direction changes based off of the chain camera. I still love this killer, but no doubt these are things that could use quality of life changes.
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To truly gauge the strength of any killer, you need to master them first. Only then can you determine if they're weak or strong. Imagine if the released killer was Nurse. I could see you complaining that she's weak just because you haven't mastered her yet.
Show me evidence that you've mastered the killer, and then make solid arguments as to why certain parts of his kit are weak and you could change my opinion. But right now, I think you're just not very good with this killer.
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Ohhhh man I HOPE all of those things you mentioned are bugs because I DEFINITELY have experienced it..
Specifically the "Falling" lunge I 100% noticed that I couldn't land my hits the same way that I have been used to when falling from higher ground and it is certainly different now than what I've become familiar with over a very long time. I have been trying to adapt my swings to that, but I think you're right, I've also missed a lot of hits that were really close almost directly on top of the Survivor simply because they randomly decided to juke in one direction at the very last moment - my swing and camera follows them the direction that they try to juke to but for some reason the hit doesn't seem to register anyway.
Man, this whole time I thought it was just me, and now that I read your comment I'm aware that it's an actual thing that's happening in game.. gosh I really hope they fix it and it isn't here to stay. Have you seen any Bug Reports about this? I don't believe that I have..
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I've been getting a ton of 4ks. I'm already up to lvl 40 with ceno. just keep practicing and you'll get it, I'm sure! :) I've got a mini-guide here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdj0k-smeA (see comments and description)
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You can think or believe whatever you want, it's not my job to change your mind. If you think I'm off base, look for a varying number of opinions from people that actively record their matches as a habit - youtubers as an example. Or, better yet, find some Twitch streamers that are playing him and listen to their opinions as they play. I've done both of those things already, and played probably about 30 matches or so with him.
To each their own, I suppose. Time will tell.
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I also am a twitch streamer enjoy-er. I've been watching Scott Jund and Ralph, who are both very good with him already. Scott was saying on his stream that the only thing that's really holding him back is the lunge bug, which to be honest needs to be fixed. And Ralph who has been loving this killer, and it's his current favorite (after huntress of course). Do either of these streamers feel that he's the best killer that ever was. No, but neither of these streamers think he's weak either. (Scott initially was saying that he was weak, but his tune has recently been changing as he's been learning the killer) This is not surprising because this killer is very punishing if you miss.
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I've watched both Scott and Ralph.
- Scott seemed to think he was on the weaker end.
- Ralph was hesitant to make an early call.
Now, just to get some idea of where you're coming from: is your opinion including his add-ons or just base kit? When I review a killer, I do it without using their add-ons. Pinhead with add-ons is almost an entirely different killer (he actually has a very strong pink, wowee).
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The only 2 add-ons I use are the ones to reduce the cooldown. I've literally never used any of his other add-ons.
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Like I said, Scott was initially saying that he was weak, but his opinion has been changing in his most recent games.
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I'll look for Scott's most recent vod and see what has inspired this shift. As I said, I've entered this discussion willing to be wrong, but I'm not yet convinced that Pinhead is anything beyond mid to low tier without his add-ons. As I said, I guess we'll see what changes (if any) are made to him in time. Or, maybe he'll be the second of twenty-five killers to have a playstyle change that shoots him up on the list.
Also, Ralph has admitted that he likes the killer's playstyle (as do I), but can be seen stating "his ability is often high risk for little to no reward." His most recent vod can attest to this, and I'm watching right now.
Post edited by BadMrFrosty on0 -
Unless your new player/slower learner, the placement of gateway is actually nurse mechanic for blinking so if you've mastered nurse, you already know how to utilize this aspect of the power and nurse is way better because she injures instantly coming out of the blink and the gateway aiming part is new mechanic. Once your get good at consistently hitting his ability, you've pretty much already mastered this ability.
The problem is that hitting ability currently is nearly pointless. The chains have no durability at all. they break instantly off the environment and any new chains that spawn are likely to miss. If the circles spawn facing towards you at loops, your forced to walk through your chains which also breaks chains instantly. This does not even account the fact that placing a gateway slows you down making you lose distance (when walking in straight line) and that his ability has cooldown i.e you do not return instantly to killer+cannot do interactions such as vaulting/breaking a pallet for like 1.5 seconds.
There is nothing to learn about him past learning his skillshot. he is simply not effective. All these problems were in PTB and nothing was changed 4 weeks after. now you can wait 3 months to see if anything changes.
My prediction that they're just going fix bugs his BP gain bug, The lament configuration permanent audio bug and probably change that Franklin demise and hoarder do not affect the box as they usually do not allow perks to interact with killer powers such as Nurse calling working with mending or Hex:Lullaby working with Pig boxes/Doctor snap out etc.
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I played him all evening and after I got good enough to land most of my chains he is not bad at all.
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he takes practice, like a Nurse with the slow down of a Clown. So he seems Clown tier (D if not F) when you don't know how to properly play him then yes once you get the hand of it he is raising to a B/B- .
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If Pinhead's so weak, how do you explain this?
Ehh? Ehh?
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He seems like a trickster type of killer. Very weak most of the time but not fun to play against.
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I do think he was against weak survivors. It's purely a coincidence.
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There is no "secret strategy" to playing pinhead. Why do people have this idea that they are the best and that THEY know what's right?
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Lmao are you salty over the idea that some people are better at Pinhead than you?
As far as I can see, people claimimng he is so bad aren't posting any evidence to this forum either.
People need to give Pinhead more time, by god I hope BHVR only fixes his lunge bug and does not buff him in any other way in the next patch. Pinhead is really awesome, it would be a shame if he becamse hated like Spirit for example.
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