Pinhead is weak
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I'm not assuming there's some secret strat, I'm just enjoying the character. I was just sharing my initial thoughts and reactions in that video. play the way that's fun for you, that video just shows some tips for aiming the chains and some builds I find helpful. the guide is more for me than anyone else.
Am I explaining this adequately? I really don't mean to boast, brag, or put anyone down, I'm just finding the character strong, just in need of getting used to, and sharing my initial thoughts in that guide (mostly as a way to process and record that information)
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He is far better than Trickster, unfortunantly but BHVR insists on him being a precision killer..., and he is so superior to Nemesis, it's like Heaven and Hell in physical distance if that was possible. Pinhead has a concept behind him, Nemesis has whatever BHVR grabbed from other killers.
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I'm with you. I think Pinhead is great and has an high skill ceiling. You can play him as a basic M1 killer but learning when and how to use his chains can take him to the next level.
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Tbf if you slap hoarder and franklin's on Pinhead to reliably and consistently get the box and in turn chain hunts, he is pretty unstoppable. This does of course require you to run a specific build.
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You're explaining it just fine. I just don't agree with you.
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No one's forcing you to play the killer. Why are you so hell bent on getting changes to PinHead. Learn to play Blight, he's hella fun.
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Play nurse. Heard she's a lot of fun.
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Weak - as in thanks for creating another killer that's just annoying like thana legion. not weak or strong, just not fun. are u guys just out of ideas on how to make killers both fun to play as and against? oh well with the rank changes there's literally no incentive to play - just alt tab out and hop into another game and hope for something decent the next round LUL
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She is fun, but I'm garbage with her. haha. With the new SBMM I might try again. Right now I'm really digging this killer, so I think I'll keep playing him for right now.
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well, that's fair. :)
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it's so much fun, plus you have the option of swapping out Franklin's. even just Hoarder helps a ton. I will be so mad if they decide to make the box not interact with these perks, it's so cool to see two non-meta perks feel extremely strong for unorthodox reasons on a killer.
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I just had a game where I lost my early down, because my lunge didn't connect when I was right behind them. Pulled of the perfect mindgame and everything and got nothing for it.
The other thing that grinds my gears alot is the amount of times I just reach the survivor and they immediately break the last chain and use dead hard instantly. Like can there be some kind of buffer after the last chain breaks to prevent that. Deathslinger buffers the stun on survivors after breaking the chain for his lunge.
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The way I cackled at this because its so true
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You kind of have to, though. You see that right? Especially since your initial comment was, essentially, a "get good" response to those that feel he is weak. How can you maintain that a killer is top tier when going against survivors that would make any killer look good? Plus, there are many survivors that are new to playing against PH, and are confused by the mechanics. New killers are always a challenge, especially to survivors that are less skilled. A killer can only be considered top tier when going up against the best survivor players.
You don't have to have the best game ever, just games against top tier survivors. If this is the caliber of survivor you typically go against, how can you accurately judge his quality? They make him look good. You need games where the survivors play at a competent level in order to properly determine his quality. It is possible that at your ranking, he is one of the best killers for you. Maybe his playstyle just works better for you than other killers, or you just like him better, in general. That's fair, and really all that matters, for you. But that is not a good indicator of how good he is, overall, compared to top tier killers.
And, to be clear, I don't think anyone thinks he is the worst killer in the game, or anything, but he does need some tweaks to get to where he should be.
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Agreed, and we seem to have similar thoughts on the matter. I myself haven't been able to find games on killer, and I've attempted throughout the day but to no avail (20 - 30 minute queues w/5 restarts of DBD before I just gave up and switched to survivor). It's mostly been survivor, however, the 20 or so games I've played of Pinhead haven't been against teams that I felt would warrant a demonstration of his strengths/shortcomings. I'd imagine you understood why I set the parameters I did in one of my original posts.
You're turning this personal, and I'd recommend you not do this in the interest of having a productive discussion on why this killer may be perceived as strong or weak.
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So I point out that your original post was essentially a "git gud" comment, and you try to turn it around on me. Nice try. Nowhere did I say you suck, or imply it. I never mentioned your gameplay at all, so don't try to redirect the conversation. In fact, I was assuming that you were a top tier player. Otherwise, how could you claim he was a top tier killer?
That said, those were not top tier survivors you were going against and/or they were confused by the new killer's mechanics. That's not saying they suck, either. It's not an insult to not be top tier. I already said that I was a middling survivor, so while I would have done better than some of those players, I would not be a good candidate to prove your point with, either.
The videos did not prove your point that he is a top tier killer, just good in the situation that you played in. With the new MMR system in place, we will not see balanced teams for a while. When survivors run right to you, or right across your path, so that you can hit them without even going out of your way, that is not even close to top tier game play.
It's not even that PH sucks. His mechanics are good, he just needs some tweaks. The Lament, alone can be very affective at keeping teams busy, and worse if it goes active.
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He definitely feels horrible to play. Chains barely have an impact and break way too easily. Chain Hunt is very easily prevented or stopped, if you try to stop the Survivor solving the Lament Configuration (given that they're not across the map), you have 3 other survivors working away at generators. Damned if you do, but also damned if you don't, as the passive is pretty much the only good thing about this killer.
I really wish Pinhead were better. 10 years ago I created my Steam account with a name referring to Hellraiser. I love the Hellraiser franchise, but this might just be one of the most disappointing additions yet.
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That's how it's always been. We have no power.
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Weak killer, easily to loop, his chain easily breaking, speed run so slow, survivor can hold the box in long time. I dont know why behaviour love to make a weak weak killer in their new every chapter. Even survivor can see the blue box magic, thats make survivor can easily looping the chain. ckckc
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Survivors can break chains in time for small loops due to being able to break multiple chains and chains can hit environment instead of survivor. Survivors can break multiple chains at once by pressing break and walking through environment. Like demo, som add ons need to be in basekit.
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He needs some chain buffs but not too much. When nurse uses the blink aim she can get a hit. Not saying it should be a guaranteed but using two tough aiming mechanics shouldn't be more of a hindrrence or heavy coin flip.
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Something that's really been bugging me: why is Pinhead's move speed while charging his gateway so damn slow? Pinhead is just Clown 1.5, didn't they learn their lesson from bottle movespeed?
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I'll never understand how some people in this discussion consider Pinhead strong. The only time a Pinhead is actually strong is with purple or iridescent addons. The chain hunt can be completely avoided the whole game with by any decent team. The power is really hard to hit and doesn't even guarantee a hit.
Base kit PH feels worse than release Trickster
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If you're playing a killer well you're going to make survivors look like idiots. The only time suvivors will look competent is when they rack you through the coals. Do you see now what the flaw in your argument is. And we have to also trust your judgment that you can tell a good survivor from a bad survivor. Give me a break.
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Come on. A good survivor is not going to look like an idiot because a killer played well. They may get outplayed, but you can still see the skill they have, or lack thereof. And, no, that is not the only time survivors look good. You can tell a good survivor even if they lose. They do the right things, but get outplayed. It's obvious. However, when a survivor randomly runs toward a killer instead of away, it is obvious they are not skilled. It was also clear that they had no clue how to get out of the chains. You don't need to trust my judgement, everyone can see it for themselves.
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He can be strong but it's super inconsistent. He basically loses or has a decent shot at winning on map selection and he can mess with a good solo queue better than any other killer, especially if you run plaything. Surprise chain hunt and you can basically pick them clean as they run around like chickens or just rage quit. Chain hunt can be overwhelming if you let it. This is bad because, with the right map, the environment can make a good active chain slow go from 5 seconds slow to a 2, so you can't even catch up thanks to the time it takes.
Not to mention any premade, that knows to solve the box on every down nullifies your strongest power, which gets weaker the fewer survivors there are. They know to juke the chain as it starts flying because the portal appears near them. They know that if they gain enough distance, an active chain without chain hunt won't let you catch up. And they know the lunge is bugged so they can expertly play you on loops.
It's hard to say where exactly he is because he's extremely reliant on perks that give you info or help you mind game, but the bugs certainly aren't helping much. You're doing a lot of work for a character who most of the time is somewhere between a clown and a death slinger, and can be very easily denied from being a doctor.
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I would've completely agreed with you a few days ago. Been playing him non-stop since launch. Struggled a lot for a long while. Difficulty with Pinhead was a bell curve: as survivors started to learn how to play against gateways, things became impossible. With a lot of practice, though, he does have some strength: like... high C-tier? Maybe? I started with using Impaling Wire every single time, and have whittled my way down to yellow add-ons only, and I'm managing to win most of the time (except for Mother's Dwelling or The Game matches. never. his map dependence is a huge flaw of his that will keep him in C-tier). The issue is that if you make a mistake, you're *screwed*. This killer might be the most punishing in the game. You lose so much time to missing a chain, especially if you don't collide with an object and send it into the sky, wasting like three whole seconds just waiting to get control of your killer back. If you force Chain Hunts by downing the box holder and never miss, you will perform well even without his stronger add-ons.
Personally, I run the yellow add-ons for gateway casting range and box solving time. If I can, I always try to chase the box holder without a teleport. I used to run Hoarder to help with this, but found it's not really necessary. If I can reach the survivor solving the box with a max distance gateway and a max distance chain, I will chase them, even if I waste a little bit of time. The pay-off for starting the cycle of manual chain hunts is so worth it. Not only is the immediate chain hunt good, but it means that the next survivor to pick up the box will have to deal with a fully charged Chain Hunt box on their next solve, causing it to take even longer, and giving you even more time to get to them. If I hit all my chains, and can catch the solvers 2 or 3 times to force instant chain hunts, I win. I've been running Surge, STBFL, Corrupt, and I swap my fourth perk out on and off for BBQ, Bamboozle, Discordance, Brutal Strength, all kinds of #########. Most success with BBQ though. Of course I could probably do better with a Ruin build, but I'm trying to stick to Surge to really push myself. And it's been working.
Pinhead has a lot of potential. The skill ceiling is 100% real. You gotta sweat your balls off to win most games, but he can do it consistently. That doesn't mean he doesn't need a LOT of tweaks. I hope BHVR listens to us on what he needs.
EDIT: I wrote this up, went to play a match. And I realized I forgot something. BEHAVIOR. HOW HAVE YOU NOT FIXED THE LUNGE BUG.
Post edited by wayneradiotv on0 -
His base kit feels far too weak, to the point of being nearly entirely inconsequential. At most distances, using your power is the wrong decision, and when you're close enough to use it and not lose distance, you may as well just skip it and go for the M1. Not to mention the fact that chains break on environments mean that on indoor maps, for all intents and purposes he doesn't have a power at unless chain hunt is active.
Ignoring indoor maps, the only time he feels strong is when chain hunt is active, then he is actually fairly oppressive.
That strength however is frustrating to play against since chains activate every other second, making it entirely impossible to do anything at all. But even if you get the box, chains can harass you and prevent you from opening it which feels like a design flaw or a mistake. I believe it should be a nuisance, and a passive threat that could help him win chases. Maybe you can't complete a totem while it's active, but you should be able to heal someone or finish a gen that's nearly complete.
Chain hunt is then also unrewarding to use as Pinhead, since the strongest part of his kit is the one part he has zero control over.
Solution:
- Buff his Chain Summoning power. Every 5m away the survivor is from Pinhead, let it spawn 1 additional chain. Then it will be usable at longer ranges.
- To make the power more consistent across all maps, remove the ability for chains to be broken on the environment, but keep survivors being able to break them so coordinated teams have interesting counterplay.
- Nerf and adjust chain hunt. 1 chain every 8-10 seconds, and have it activate at 80s by default rather than 90s.
I also think it's kind of sad that Pinhead can't ever see his own Puzzlebox. I feel like he should be able to see it within 16m at least just by default.
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