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So do we have enough data to start balancing gens now?
Title
Gen tapping being nerfed...survivor needs to stay on gen for 3 to 4 seconds to stop regression after a kick
Kicking a gen does 4 percent damage while pop and ruin get nerfed more for their regression
Survivor spawn points aren't right on a gen...no more than two survivors at each spawn point
That is ok for a start
Comments
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What exactly do you mean with data and gens and balancing?
8 -
What do you mean by "balancing" gens?
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They should just remove them.
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MMR hasn’t even been live for 2 weeks so I highly doubt they’re making balancing decisions from it just yet.
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On a serious note i think it means making generators take longer. I think by default they are pretty fast but with prove thyself and toolboxes and brand new parts it can go too fast.
3 -
Big brain.
Can't genrush if there are no gens.
17 -
The OP might mean a recent interview (the one pinned, you've probably seen it) where one of the Dev's said they didn't want people pressured to run perks. Specifically in regards to regression perks.
So as always, some people have taken this as a sure sign they're going to nerf gens or something. Personally, I don't think it means anything. The dude just answered a question.
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Judging by my killer kill rates are high asf post sbmm. So, I wouldn't expect any balancing to go in the direction you expect.
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True, it's only been active for 10 days but it feels like it's been active for months
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Gens are fine. If you make them slower solo q gets even more garbage than it already is.
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Gens aren't the problem. The problem comes from survivor's lacking a objective piror to gens which mainly is a core game issue
6 -
True
0 -
They seem rather balanced to me. Never saw one falling down or something, even that one on Dead Dawg Saloon.
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Yes,fix gen need slow now.
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They have another objectif in bones but they refuse to do them and they love to get hit by a surprise noed and complain the perk is broken
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Got I hope gens don't take longer, solo queue is already a nightmare.
2 -
Gens finally needs a nerf why a SWF can finish a Gen in 10 secs? How in suposed to defend them ?
5 -
I agree that gens can go by pretty fast if you have a fully optimized swf group. I think the fastest a gen can go is 8 seconds.
However, 90% of the player base aren't playing optimally like that. After playing both sides and seeing how long it takes to do a gen in solo queue, and getting all 5 done in a match, it can take quite a while. Because in solo queue it can often feel like you're playing 1v4 as a survivor.
I'd try doing something like, protecting 3-4 gens on one side of the map and letting the others go. Just stay to one side of the map and force them to come to you.
Can usually work, however sometimes you're still gonna get those sweaty swf that do 3-4 gens in less than a minute. Just let it roll off and go to the next match. And now with the new changes they've made to grades, along with SBMM, there's little to no reason to have to "win" most games.
3 -
Believe it or not, gens are actually quite balanced. So much so even, that Ruin and Pop would need to be gutted if generator time gets upped by even 5 seconds.
80 seconds on a solo gen takes forever to fix, the solution is not to increase that time, because no one would play survivor if they have to spend 5 minutes just looking at a progress bar to fix 3 gens.
2 people doing gens together is even slower than 2 people doing gens solo at the same time(even with Prove Thyself).
3 people doing gens together is so inefficient, that the time saved between 3 people doing 5 gens together and 2 people doing 5 gens together is only a 10 second difference.
4 people doing gens together is even worse than 3 people.
So gens arent the issue here. Nor is it killer ability.
You know what is, tho? Map design. If it takes more than 20 seconds to go from one spot to any other spot on the map as a killer, you have a problem. Because all a survivor has to do is try and lead the killer to that spot and BAM, 3 survivors fix that gen before the killer can even return.
Maps are the things that need balancing here(including spread of objectives, RCPD is actually quite okay to handle if the gens dont spawn on the far-ends of the map, it's an absolute abomination if both gens spawn on the furthest ends of the map). Maps need a killer seed(aka, RNG ranges, lower max distance for "bad" killers, higher min distance for "good" killers, more tiles being Jungle Gyms when facing a Spirit, more tiles being T&L's when facing a Trapper, for example). A Nurse can obliterate survivors on RCPD regardless of gen spawn(if she knows the map layout), a Myers can only handle himself if the gens spawn closer together.
5 -
Gens are actually a problem, even god players like Otzdarva are having hard time and less fun (just watched his stream today, he is thinking of playing another game).
People who say they are not, they are or survivor mains or killer mains that face potatoes.
They have to do something, we all know that. But not now, since months.
3 -
Well, expectations are rarely, if ever, met. They already got rid of reverse pallet stuns and blocked locker flashlight saves. I expect those types of changes to continue in that direction despite Bwsted's kill rate.
2 -
Some people who tunnel only do it to make it a 3v1 to make gens pop more slowly. You may see a slight drop if something is done about gen speeds. I doubt you would see a massive drop though as some killers are just keen to get kills even though 8 hooks, 0 kills would give you more bp than 1-3 hooks, 1k and camping
I'm not in agreement of increasing the time it takes as I agree that will be so boring. I'm with the people who want a seperate objective before gens can be worked on, maybe another small objective before opening the exit gates if noed ever gets reworked.
2 -
I can asure you that most killers don't tunnel for fun, they just have to. They would be glad to chase the unhooker everytime, right now if they do that the game is gone.
Make gens slower and tunneling/camping is gonna decrease pretty hard. More chases, more points, more mindgames. Only sweaty chads want 4 minutes game.
1 -
I doubt that making gens take longer will get players to impulsively play differently. It would just be deathgarden all over again, where they buffed hunters incredibly saying, ' now that scavengers are easier to find and down, why not just recycle them instead of instantly getting them out the game as fast as possible'.
Did the changes influence player behavior in their favor? No. If anything, they would insta-kill 1 or 2 scavs and farm the remaining because at that point, there was no way they could win anyway. So they forced a second life mechanic instead.
I'm not against changing gens or introducing other mandatory objectives, but ways that both sides shorten the game have to be addressed. Good faith balancing rarely if ever works.
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They should just change SWF to be only able to queue with 2 people not more.
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Devs won't do anything in that regard. Because they don't see it as a problem.
The original Undying Ruin combo was the perfect example of how a additional objective slowed gens down, while also avoiding camping and tunneling.
But the devs gave in to survivors that complained about doing bones.
So there is no salvation coming. We'll get probably spammed with slowdown perks, that will be nerfed a few months later, when they are even slightly effective.
The above mentioned interview contained a part where a dev said that if players feel forced to equip a perk, then something should be done about it. Killers have been struggling over a year with gen speeds and in that time we saw nerfs to Undying, Pop and Lullaby. So don't expect any killer buffs or survivor nerfs in that regard.
Just play survivor and enjoy the short matches.
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True that. They also got rid of bullshit pallet hits, despite ThiccBuddha's kill rates, or lack thereof.
I'd say that the best expectation is to expect the unexpected.
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Are you talking about hit validation? That was before mmr.
I agree there, some of these game developers can only be described as "arbitrary." So who knows what changes they will cook up, realistically. The only constant is that it will piss people off.
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This exactly...it was said not rely on the same perks and killers at almost any sbmm need to run at least one or two gen regression perks if not more
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Even if they have the data that hasn't prompted them to fix anything before.
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Sure it has undying got nerfed decisive strike got nerfed ruin got nerfed borrowed time got buffed...just depends on enough people complaining with the "data"
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Rest of the post got cut off for some reason it has been readded🤣
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You mean a proper hide and seek game with no gens and no exit gates last survivor tries to get the hatch...I like it🤑
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It would be nice if default gen kicks were a bit more impactful. Either make the regression rate for kicked gens a bit faster, or make it so kicked gens instantly regress something like 5% (and change Pop to 20%).
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I mean even if they have the data that shows something is clearly broken, they may or may not take action. Undying was nerfed in 3 months yet they took their sweet time fixing DS. Just because they have the data doesn't mean they will actual do anything with it.
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No reasonable person is saying that. Before, I could play a lower tier killer like Nemesis or Pig and usually have a fighting chance. Now I pretty much just play Nurse ever match. The game is incredibly stale and broken.
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If you suspect a survivor is nearby, don't kick the gen.
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Yeah because survivor is so weak, lmao. People literally lose on killer just because of the terrible balance. Go watch Otz or other high hour killer main players. They are losing games even though they play well. Just because the survivor role has all the power when played at a competent level. You literally can't do anything against 3+ good survivor players on almost the whole killer roster. Wake up. Not every game is against clueless 50 hours played solo survivors. Every trial is a trial for the survivor to throw. The killer should always struggle. If the killer isn't struggling, some of the survivor players were bad. It is really that simple.
7 -
If not being forced to run regression perks then just buff base regression to .50 like ruin
Then add the 50% kicking time reduction to Brutal Strength
Gen tapping might still be a thing to consider but it's not that big a deal... cause it only stops regression
There's no need to nerf already strong regression perks... but to buff the weaker ones into stronger ones
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Given the developers have NEVER acted on their claim that 50/50 is balanced its worthless to even bring up.
Also remember that if they do the 50/50 they'd have to massively buff NURSE!
2 -
At this point I don't even think SWF is something that is affecting these gen speeds (they are, but its a side topic at this point). It is just better survivors trying harder because of SBMM. So it is an issue with gen completion rate. Personally, I think the game requires some kind of ground up overhaul. Survivors are doing their objective, and if they do it well, then the game becomes unfair/ unfun for the killer. I really think a lot more people are playing way more efficient than they used to and it isn't just a select few anymore.
3 -
how exactly is 50% kill rate fun to achieve? You have to try so hard on killer and to get rewarded with 2 k? there is no way that is fun.
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I don't think this can be fixed by changing perks
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It must be nice to live in your own little world where you don't see the real reality. This is why DBD is in a terrible state. People don't care about how OP survivor is when played well because they benefit from the terrible balance. Why is it okay to lose just because there is little you can do and not because you played bad? That is like telling survivors, sorry, the killer just wins by default because we balanced the game in a way where the killer will win or down you no matter what. Remember OG Legion? They were basically that. Guess what. They were nerfed. Granted they needed to be nerfed, but survivor is basically the same when you get 3+ competent players on a team and especially when they are on coms. Wake up. Stop being delusional and bias. People should lose because they played worse than their opponent. Not because the game balance makes them lose.
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I don't think you will like data
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I remember when people said that old BNP was ok.
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Gens go fast even without being optimal with being on SWF and say im repairing here its fast as fugde already
1 -
"No more than 2 survivors spawn at one point" is not a nerf to gen speeds... Actually the opposite, if all survivors spawn on different locations will mean that the killer will only pressure 1 person when he finds him, the other 3 will be on gens at 100% efficiency.
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That's my point though... By changing base regression there'll be no need to make changes
Sorry for the misunderstanding by what I said
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This game is balanced around 2 sacrifices and 2 escapes, all killers already have a killrate above 50% so gen speeds are okay. If they change gen speeds all gen regression perks will get nerfs too
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