Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
So do we have enough data to start balancing gens now?
Comments
-
I was a big supporter of MMR. I enjoyed test number 3 but this version which should be the same is just garbage. I wish I had listened to @Pulsar and @BrokenSouI they both tried to warn me. Killer is a complete snorefest (pallet drop, hold W) and has made killer a pallet kicking simulator for most killers.
I have been playing mostly Survivor I'm not saying that is fun all the time but way better than killer I have equipped Q&Q, Head on to have some fun. Outside of that this game will die for me.
2 -
This happened even before the new MMR... I've seen a lot of threads about it. Nothing has really changed much in the games I play. Killers tunnel, camp and slug while survivors try to quickly do gens.
1 -
I agree with that. I am glad things have not changed much to you but MMR is highlighting the broken parts of this game. Yes there is a lot of tunneling killers are using MMR as an excuse to do this even the ones not in higher MMR playing solos. I am not someone who has complained about gens in a post. I have complained about spawn points sure but not about gens.
All I know for sure is MMR made solo suck (already did) but niw made the game suck for killers as well. 4 survivors that do what i listed before....not enough time in a trial for that.
1 -
Yeah I figure more survivors were complaining and that is why undying got nerfed...I mean killers have been complaining about the key nerf for how long and moris are going to be nerfed a second time before that even happens...4 wallets > 1🤑
3 -
ah okay. i agree. killer just needs more tools/leeway period. and if they are scared of brutal pallet kick speed, then they can just make it where they have two sets of numbers, one for gens and one for pallets.
0 -
Yep, I've arrived at the same place. 😡
0 -
I can see that happening... if they change the base regression
0 -
I hope they slow them down so much that they will be forced to change the regular animation to a slow motion animation.
Imagine perks like Surge while working on a slow motion gen… Dwight’s face while the gen (in slow motion) blows up in his face:
0 -
Oh hell, I'm not even at the highest level of the game. Nowhere near it. Prior to MMR, I never played DbD enough in a month to hit red ranks. It's always been a side game for me.
So, I should be categorized as a clear casual, right? As someone with overall limited experience, not a regular player during any time owning the game, and not high MMR.
Well, SBMM has put me against survivors where I can barely get one or two hooks all match. Match after match after match. And hasn't adjusted. So, I said "eff it," and pretty much only play other games now. Any game, really, that isn't Dead by Daylight or in any way associated with Behavior Interactive.
5 -
Yes it's been miserable until cross play turned off for Series S/X. I never liked playing fellow xbox players and I slaughtered them all yesterday. This gm just sucks real bad right now.
0 -
I'm sure. So my Pig/Freddy I know are in higher MMR and the games go about the same each time. I get what I would call steam rolled but late game I manage to get a kill or two so I keep managing to stay were I'm at. Now I play for 12 hooks and don't tunnel and like to only bring 1/2 gen perks at most but I shouldn't need them to have a decent game to get BP. All my killers have different perks right now so it's never clear what I will bring. Right now I don't have any perks that I consider my "Pig Build". Meaning I am not at my best with load out but I'm not sure it would matter.
0 -
Gen speed can remain the same but imo they should give killer Ruin and BBQ as base kit to discourage camping. Ruin also give survivors another objective to do. In return, survivors should get DS and Kindred as base kit to discourage tunneling and for better coordination.
0 -
The problem when discussing gens is the fact that Ruin and Pop need to exist in the first place. If gen times weren't as ludicrous we could actually turn those perks into something else. I'm personally tired of running them just to be effective. The problem is, the margin of being effective vs the margin of not using them is so god damn wide it makes them god damn mandatory.....
3 -
There are ways to do that without going into death garden stupid levels of gameplay. But in its current form 12 hooks and 24 (32 for nemesis) health states, including that end game buffer is a 5 minute match and sometimes shorter. Survivors have to purposefully throw the match in order for you to get all of those hooks, and all of those health states. And if they don't throw you have to proxy camp and tunnel to knock off time on gens and reduce the amount of people available by 1. And even then by the time you've tunneled that 1 person out of the game 3 gens have gone by, survivors don't even need a 4th man by that point, 1 guy can continue to lead chases while those last 2 gens get swept up.
Either way it goes, this game is inherently not balanced nor is it ready for some SBMM level of competitive play. If its busted out of the gate then there is no point in an SBMM. Its like watching Evolve 2 matches. It turned into a joke because the 4 hunters were buffed to the moon while the monster saw no real changes since the game started. But since those players only make up a small amount of the player base I guess theres no point to making sure that side of the game functions properly right?
2 -
Stop facing potato's and get in on these real red matches at the new ranks. Its actually crazy up here.
2 -
"What exactly do you do with that many disgusting structures linked together exactly?"
Play spirit and nurse....pretty much those 2 are the only ones who can consistently hard counter them. With pinhead and Blight being a close second. I mean its not a solution because you have to pretty much ignore 80% of the rest of the killer roster but.....yeah....
0 -
How does Pinhead counter them? I've not seen any streams/videos of Pinhead players countering, nor can i myself.
0 -
No,BHVR always lgnore killers welfare and harmful to killers bugs.
Example: The game have unidirectional pullet,but BHVR only close saloon .
Killer such as tool to sevice survs.
0 -
So are you saying that survivors who play well shouldn't win, but killers who play well should? I'm confused as to what point you're making, you say that survivors who play well are strong and that's unbalanced, so they should be nerfed, but also that you shouldn't lose if you play well.
If you have a full team of survivors playing well with no weak links and few mistakes then they probably SHOULD win because the game is asymmetrical and survivors are balanced around teamwork. One weak survivor link can drop the whole team, is that also unfair? Do you complain that survivors often lose because there was little they could do due to their team, and not because they personally played badly? Or is the fact that survivors are balanced around a team effort okay when it causes the survivors to lose, but a problem when it causes them to win?
0 -
That is not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that even if you are a good killer player, good survivors will still beat you more often than you will beat them because the game balance is focused on average skill level play. You have to rely on the survivor making mistakes you can capitalize on to do well as killer. Your skill alone cannot win you the game. I have no issue with people being good at survivor or good survivors winning. The issue I and many other people that care about this game at higher skill level is that a good killer player on the majority of the playable killers can't compete against 4 good survivors. Even when the killer player is good with a S tier killer, the survivors are still favored if they are good.
2 -
So, survs team finish all gen in 5-6 min.
Is it balance??
I think you like survs buffet and broken killer game experience.
0 -
You cut the loop short as you would with clown, except pinhead can shoot his power through walls.
0 -
Does that work for you? Whenever i do that they just break it using the environment and i gain little to no ground. Or they break, run to pallet and early pallet slam.
It always feels when i use it in loops, they just get broken and they make it to a pallet so its a waste of time.
0 -
You know exactly what it means let's not act brand new to this, Survivor needs a kick in the ass
2 -
Another good point
1 -
If they're gonna add boon totems then yes the gens should take longer. But gen times in general should be taking longer and maybe even reworking prove thy self.
0 -
The trick is leading. Thats where all the skill comes in. You got a couple different shots with him. If you aim to hit a survivors back, you're giving them a lead, hits like this only work when you know they have no direct obstacle to lean into. The trick is wherever you hook them from is your hooks anchor. So in situations like that you aim your shot in front of their path and do a quick 180 flick to hit them from their face. They then end up running towards the chains giving you the maximum distance to catch up and land an M1. The 180s are insanely difficult to pull off, but if you can get used to landing shots from multiple angles, you can shut down those loops, and especially the ones where camping a pallet is involved.
1 -
Alrighty, im pretty sure i land a lot of front facing chains especially in jungle gyms and it makes no difference, but ill test this out more thoroughly over the next few days. Thanks =]
0 -
But like I said, that’s because the game is a 4v1 that is balanced around a combination of individual killer skill, individual survivor skill, and survivor teamwork. If the survivors are a great team and individually competent, the core game design kind of dictates that they will win more often. Not all the time, provably they don’t, but more often.
How exactly do you suggest they change that? Considering that if you nerf highly coordinated 4 stacks, you will also nerf every other type of survivor group, and end up with newer or less skilled survivors dying even more often than they already do. What changes would allow for amazing teams to win less and the other 98% of the player base that isn’t an amazing team to not just get rolled into the dirt all the time?
I’m not opposed to balance changes for both sides, there are many maps that need improvement for example, and killers that would benefit from buffs to their power. But that wouldn’t be enough, good survivor teams would still win a lot.
0 -
Meh, they won't do nothing for a while. Some killers are still broken like nurse for example, I still get this random bug where my blink cancels its self and then I am stuck in a blinking faze but I didn't go anywhere or when she is stunned by a pallet it makes an annoying noise and pinhead still has that lunge bug thing so oh and sometimes when survivors are on the ground, they have a sound bug so you can't hear where they've crawled off to if you leave them on the floor. They do things for killers very very slowly... slower than what you think
0 -
Why do you think that? Because I have a different opinion than you? Believe it or not but I play both roles in the game, and I want the game to be fun and balanced for both. However, I’m also aware that we need to be realistic, and that you can’t just say “nerf coordinated teams!” without considering the core design of the game.
0 -
Survivors are balanced around Ds and Dh. I bet if devs turn off those perks for a week lot's of so called good survivors will fall off.
Those two perks guarantee result (escape, free vault etc) no matter are u actually good or potato with 1 hour experience.
Edit. While game should be skill vs skill not perk vs skill.
0 -
Here's a secret: I rarely use either of the perks. I just run whatever I feel like running. If I am not certain what to run, I either run, Ruin, Pop or NOED as the 4th perk. If I feel like I am going to face an optimal SWF, I am slapping on NOED, because I refuse running Ruin, Tinkerer and Undying due to it's boringness. Otherwise, I only use Ruin, Pop or NOED if it's preplanned in the build.
There is something called hook pressure, and not enough people are using it. The benefit of downing a survivor on the opposite side of the map, is that to save that survivor, 1 of the other survivors has to run there too. If you come across that survivor on your way back to the gens and push him towards the gen, another survivor has to run to the opposite side again. It's a very powerful form of pressure that is quite rarely used. Almost as powerful as mass slugging in fact.
My biggest question would be, why feel like you're forced to run Ruin or Pop when you have Pig? Pig has built-in slowdown. Heck, I'd suggest you run Trail of Torment, Third Seal, Scourge Hooks and Thanatophobia. Thana and Scourge, especially on Pig, have quite the synergy. You could add in Rusty Attachment if they heal up with a hat on to keep em injured for longer, but I rather suggest Crate and Bag of gears to keep em busy for as long as possible with their party hats without being a dick about it. I used to run it with Sloppy instead of Scourge Hooks, and the only downside was that I had to M1 survivors.(also, Dying Light, Scourge and Thana have nasty synergy together, arguably more disgusting than Ruin, Tinkerer and Undying on some killers)
You'd be surprised how many perks you can use together on certain killers if you decide to ditch the meta build. Pop didnt exist for a long time and Ruin was worse(yes, it was worse, it was only good against bad survivors, the better the survivors, the less effect Ruin had, Old Thana had more effect against good survivors than Old Ruin) yet killers still managed to get an average of 2.7 kills in high tiers.
0 -
My pig isn't the problem. She doesn't have to run any of that stuff at all. But sure enough, getting comfortable with that amount of stall shows. In games where you're running around as nemesis, or trapper, or plague (even though her power can cut the average 24 health states needed in half) or Demogorgon, or most of the rest of the M1 only killer roster that can't insta across the map, your time per game goes down SIGNIFICANTLY! I've said for years now, that every killer in this game needs to perform to the level of pigs average game time, with the exception of the zoomy cast. Who for obvious reasons, don't need more
The thing is, with the existence of gen slow down perks in general, its an open letter stating "Yes...we know this is a feature of the game that you would probably want slowed down" Its the same logic they use behind some of these so called pink add ons like pinheads pink, or ruleset no 2. Stuff that ideally should be base kit, but for whatever reason its not base kit, and theres always some convoluted reason tossed up in the air about why it shouldn't be base kit.....when by default the fact that those things even exists prooves that the devs acknowledge that those things would make the killer better, they just choose NOT to have them there to hamstring players. Just like when we asked for a universal fix to totems and what we got was some perks instead. Matter fact that almost seems like their sole agenda when balancing the game.
Instead of taking the time to actually sit down and go over the fundamentals of the game even if it means full on reworks, they skip that, and just throw a bandaid fix on it via a perk. And now we have situations where those same perks are seen as mandatory on Killer AAAND SURVIVOR....
Like its not just killer with the slow down perks, Survivors are running just as many meta/mandatory nonsense as the killers are. DS, mandatory, BT, mandatory. All because the devs refuse to address 2 simple concepts within the games overall view that lead to the behaviors that cause you to even need BT or DS to begin with, which are camping and tunneling. Its inherently flawed. So much so that even little kids who make roblox games and clones of some of their favorite games have systems in place to prevent these things because they are aware that that will happen.
So if little 14 year olds can address camping, tunneling, and whatever else can be found in an asymmetric game, what excuse do studios full of grown adults have?
0 -
Why more often? Shouldn't it be 50/50? I don't see why one side being 4 people really matters, if both sides have equal skill overall it should be an equal match up, not 80/20 or whatever just because. There's nothing inherent about the game design that says the team of 4 should win more often at the same skill level and the devs have stated that's not what they want as well, they want 2K:2E, or in other words a 50/50.
4 good survivors should = 1 good killer
1 good team should = 1 good team
1 side playing well should not be greater than the other playing well just because. I think that's silly. Its also pretty much the definition of unbalanced.
If I'm a 5 on skill, and the other team is a 5 on skill, then why is their 5 > my 5? It shouldn't be.
If the survivors overall play better then sure, I don't think any reasonable person has a problem with that, but if they play at the same level as the killer then it should be a 50/50 split. But its not even close on the vast majority of the killer roster.
0 -
If the devs turned off DH survivors would just use Sprint Burst instead. And if DS was turned off most matches would just be the killer tunnelling one person to death ASAP, which frankly sounds as fun as taking sandpaper to the groin.
But sure, I’d be down for that experiment if they also turned off Ruin and Pop to test the skill of killers as well.
0 -
Because the survivors’ ability to work as a team is part of their win condition. Like I said before, if there’s one weak link on the survivor team it can lose them the game. You can’t realistically have the game balanced so that poor survivor teamwork means they die but good survivor teamwork means very little.
I’ve gone against survivors in the past who had more skill than me, but they died because of a less skilled teammate throwing. If that’s fair because survivors are a team, then good teamwork also gets rewarded.
0 -
The problem is that all 4 survivors just being good has way too much of an impact. Good teamwork should be rewarded but it shouldn't put all the killers besides 3-4 in an unwinnable situation as often as it does, especially if the killer player is also just as skilled.
Its not that good survivor teamwork should mean little, is that right now it swings things way too much to the point the killer's skill doesn't matter much.
Survivors have their win condition and killers have theirs, they should even out. Right now the only thing that really matters is how good the survivors are, the killers don't really have too much agency and that's a problem.
If you have a good killer you should need better than good teamwork on the survivors side to beat them, so great teamwork. If its just good it should be a even split.
Good vs good should be a 2k, but right now its a 0-1k. Not asking for a 4k, just balanced. Survivor skill should not matter more than killer skill, they should be equal. Teamwork is part of that skillset. So if 1 of your teammates is a 2 and the killer is a 4, then yeah the killer should win.
If the 4 survivors don't equal the killer than the survivors shouldn't win.
Teamwork is part the win condition, yes poor teamwork should mean they lose because they failed the win condition. That's the nature of any team based game. But the question now is what's the killers win condition if the survivors are good? Because as it stands its: Hope the survivors are bad.
We shouldn't balance around bad teams, then its just unfair playing killer because even if you're at the same level as your opponents you'll still lose way more often.
If you don't like chancing on your teammates, then a team based game with random people isn't what you should be doing, you should get a group or play the solo role (killer). Also SBMM should be fixing that issue. We shouldn't throw balance concerns out the window because a teammate might be bad.
Balance wise, 4 survivors = 1 killer is how it should be since that's 1 team = 1 team, that's balanced. Not 1 team > 1 team, that unbalanced.
Asking for your teammates to not weigh you down in a team based game is asking for imbalance. You are not equal to the killer, you are 1/4 of the killer and so are your teammates. That's how it should be at least. I don't think we should be aiming for imbalance.
Post edited by MrPenguin on2 -
That is the norm right now wait in a killer lobby for longer than it takes to play a game🤬
0 -
I still cant believe old undying got nerfed it made a second objective viable...it wouldn't even be OP right now with 3 different totem searching perks and maps🤔
0 -
Which would be a simple enough fix to resolve some of the current problems🙂
0 -
Well, there have been plenty of players that have proven that killers dont really need too many buffs to reach Pig's average game time. As for making things basekit, there is actually a good reason why some are not. As some killers having essentially 3 addons could very easily overpower them. The only addon on Pig I would consider basekit, it Amanda's letter's aura reading(you're much slower than wraith anyway). Ruleset No 2 can be extremely powerful on some maps, especially considering Tampered Timer still exists. Having Ruleset No 2 basekit, would essentially making the most disgusting addons(Tampered Timer+Crate of Gears) even more disgusting, while only giving players reason to work on gens as long as their traps arent active(and dont tell me that this is some "convoluted reason".
As for addons, well, the way the devs design a power is basically creating a massive board of "what if" scenario's. Then look for things that could combine very well with the basekit power and see what things should remain part of the basekit power and what things should be seperated because they would be too strong if combined with 2 other things. There are a lot of killer addons that might not feel powerful enough, but once you make them basekit and look at what combinations get stronger and how much those combinations affect the gameplay, you'll see the reason why it's turned into an addon instead. There are cases where making an addon basekit is one of the best ways to improve the killer. Take Trapper and Myers for example. Give Trapper the Trapper Bag basekit, and would he truly have a broken combination? No, not really. For Myers, give him Jewellery basekit, and would he truly have a broken combination? Well, technically yes, due to Tombstone Piece, but Tombstone piece is already broken and needs to change even in Myers' current state.
So for Pig, would Ruleset No 2 be too powerful? Even if Tampered Timer would get a nerf? I'd actually be willing to say yes due to map design as Crate of Gears and Bag of Gears slow down searching enough on some maps to still risk getting your head popped without you being able to do anything about it. Especially if Pig hooks you away from the boxes you still need to check. Which is why I'd argue Amanda's letter instead. Worst case scenario, you can combine it with Video Tape and Combat Straps, which isnt really too powerful at all.
As for the excuse they can easily make(and I agree, it's a dumb one): The core code of the game is heavily outdated and gives performance issues with each new chapter. The higher ups do not want to spend time and resources to rework that, as it means less income(and DBD is their only income). The higher ups rather have the devs work on bandaid fixes as it costs less money, even though the game can earn them a lot more money if they reworked the game/create DBD 2 instead. The devs arent the blame on this one. How would you create cilindrical tower if all you recieve is sand? You can spend hours and hours making it as cilindrical as possible, but as soon as a new bag of sand is added, the entire piece falls apart again. Or whenever sand isnt in the right place and you have to place it back, it might drop sand on the other side of the tower that was more important to the structure than the sand you placed back(aka, the pallet blinking fix creating the Freddy dream pallet stun glitch). That is the situation the devs have to work with. That's why the people who create clones are far easier off by fixing things in the game, because their clone has a better core.
0 -
Tampered timer and crate of gears is broken by default without ruleset no 2. We've already proven that it will kill people who don't get their box on the 3rd try. But the thing is, I don't think the devs weigh importance in utility at base kit properly. Which is why you end up with Difficult to obtain stuff that should be base kit like rulset no 2.....but then get some bullshit combination like tampered timer and crate....like #########? The point of the skill is to stall people not kill them every single time so why is your most deadly combo a set of purple add ons? Same thing we can say about tombstone myers....like....why does it exist? The thing is if the team was actually focused on balance they'd be focused on base kit not post add on. Add ons would be just that....add ons, MINOR quality of life and advantages, not GAAAAAAME SWEEPING FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES.....like #########? Its like playing league of legends and Rabadons Deathcap stacking....THERES NO REASON....to have mages so weak, but then have a magic item that can be stacked to the moon and boost performance so much it becomes broken. If you make adjustments for base kit to be strong, you can afford A more player skill involved and less game breaking functionality from player decisions, and B less power creep via add on and perk combinations. But they do the opposite, they treat base kit as basically being helpless, and boost the ######### out of add ons and perks so that any time they "add sand" of course ######### is going to break.....you never even started building this sand castle with water to compact the sand what did you expect?
If you don't have a core and the only thing you're given is sand, the insane thing to do would be to keep looping, the mindful brain thing to do would be to look at what you have and fix the core drop some water in that sand and do things properly. Again, all of this stuff is only going to compound problems, and eventually due to the limitations of simply being humans, you'll end up with so many problems that it fractures your ability to maintain a game at all.
Also amandas letter as basekit? Hell nah, she doesn't need more information, she needs to reduce the amount of information survivors have so that her stall actually works consistently. And Less traps just hinders her main function. But I could see devs doing something like that because it makes 0 sense cause they work backwards....reminds me of Korean devs tbh. Their idea of balance is along the same lines. Leave the core game stagnant, add BS to the cash shop to compensate, when its discovered that a core problem exists, don't fix it.....just buff something randomly while nerfing it at the same time starting you back to ground 0 except more convoluted.
0 -
You would think that it's simple for BHVR to make these changes
0 -
Killer skill absolutely matters. And if the survivors are just good, not great, then a skilled killer will get more than a 0k. Not sure why you think middling survivors against an experienced killer would mean no kills.
I’m still wondering how you’d go about nerfing survivor teamwork without just flat out nerfing survivors in general btw. Unless you do just want to significantly nerf all survivors across the board, in which case we fundamentally disagree so there’s no point in continuing to discuss it.
0 -
Killer skill does matter, but it doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the survivors. As I already said, it doesn't matter much. I didn't say it doesn't matter at all.
You're changing it from equal experience to Good vs Great/skilled and Middling vs Experienced. I never said a significantly better killer will get a 0k, so there's no reason for you to think that. I specifically said "good vs good" when I brought up the 0-1k point. Equal skill levels.
An equally skilled killer to the survivors is at a very big disadvantage in the vast majority of cases, that's a problem. Not a better killer. If both sides are equal than the match should be equal, but its not, its survivor favored as we know.
In terms of changes, buff killers and/or nerf other aspects like objective time (such as introducing a second objective or something as simple as gen time increase ect.), not outright nerfing "teamwork". You can give the survivors baseline communication via call out wheel or w.e. as a QOL buffs for solo, but the power when survivors do have a clue of what to do is too high. That's now without changes to help them out even more.
If equal vs equal means the survivors win a lot more often, then there's a balance problem that needs to be addressed. Killers need to be buffed or survivors need to be nerfed.
Survivors need to be generally balanced out in some way because right now they're too strong. If you fundamentally disagree then you're disagreeing that the game should be balanced, and then yeah there's no point discussing it because you want unbalanced survivor favored games and I want balanced ones.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1
