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Killers are beginning to get tired of BHVR's BS
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I absolutely agree with you.
I play Killer since the beta and it is really getting tiresome. Some days are fine but around 50% of the games are sweaty boring games where all survivors only run meta ######### with med kits and other op #########. More and more Killer mains are leaving which is pretty sad, I mean when was the last time you have seen a really good Billy or Nurse? Most Nurses are running 4 anti gen perks and just very average skill but still get carried by their perks and bad random team mates are making the experience even more unpleasent.
I stopped playing solo q completely and only play with friends but not often though, I overall play Dbd WAY less then I was supposed to be which is a mix of everything abit. Actual good players that are getting more rare to encounter, bad and boring design choices and no major changes to the game in years.
I rather play Hearthstone Mercenaries right now :)
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Hi. High Killer MMR player here. They're not instant lol
My nurse sits in queue for up to 10 minutes. My Doc/Pig/Trapper/Blight/Deathslinger sit in queue for the same amount of time.
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Depends your region i guess. Playing in EU for me. Instant queue in the afternoon and evening.
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Spirit nerf right now is fine giving the survivor a cue when she use her power is a good thing. The issue rise late when they implement the dust kicking nerf.
Deathslinger removing the quickscope is the worst thing they could do to him because that the only thing he had over huntress. Now its just better to play huntress you have better addon and a better power.
Boon perk are really scary you can use them an infinite amount of time that can make them op. Ofc if the other survivor never use them you are better off running perk that work only for you.
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Spirit will be harder than before, but she's definitely not dead. No one was arguing this was a nerf.
Deathslinger I think his nerf had to do more with disconnects than how strong he is. I've seen about the same, if not more, disconnects against Deathslinger than Spirit. He was boring and there was very little you could do to counter him. The only way I've seen Deathslingers lose is because THEY screwed up, it had nothing to do with survivors.
For the survivor perks getting buffed: Vigil is definitely more viable but still not the best, Babysitter is only buffed if you tunnel, For The People is barely a buff, Windows should have got that change when Zanshin Tactics did, Repressed Alliance is barely used anyways and this isn't going to do much, Built to Last honestly is a lot stronger now, Any Means Necessary should have had pallet aura reading from the beginning, No Mither still hard mode. Seriously, most of these changes either should have already been a thing or are only buffed if you play scummy.
Boons are getting changes in live servers and we'd have to test them to see if they're as strong. Also, if a survivor finds your hex now and decides to bless it instead of breaking it, you were going to lose it anyways. To bless it they have to sit there twice as long as if they just broke it.
A new survivor is just a new skin basically
Also, people have been asking for Plague and Trapper to be buffed for a LONG time. I don't know why you're complaining that we're getting those even if it is alongside these nerfs.
Oh let's also forget that they
Buffed Nurse add-ons
Buffed Hag add-ons
Buffed Shape add-ons
Buffed Hillbilly add-ons
Buffed (and Nerfed, kinda more balanced) Pig add-ons
Buffed Plague add-ons
Buffed Blight add-ons
Buffed (and slightly buffed) multiple killer perks, not just Third Seal
I honestly don't know where you are getting the number 3 from. 8 survivor perks are getting buffed and 4 killer perks are getting buffed
Yep totally a survivor sided update and killers shouldn't deal with BHVRs bs anymore. Absolutely.
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You are totally correct on a lot of this, BHVR themselves tried to pass spirits nerf off like it wasnt a nerf through some glitter sprayed words and phrases, everyone as far as I know never wanted this change to deathslinger so I think that was due to the fact of both disconnects and maybe possibly some salty devs, I did not look too much into the addons so thank you for bringing that up that is a valid point but the buffs to trapper and plague were needed so long ago its not even funny, those were just so they could be more viable, i made this post awhile ago so wherever i got the number 3 from idk exactly (patch notes maybe) but spirit could have been made so her power could be heard regardless of terror radius but this i feel with the direction and visual dust is just the devs not wanting killer to make survivors mindgame (Like every killer has to at nearly every loop). I get some frustrations but I feel this is a bad turnpoint for killers as only nurse can really be considered solid S tier now.
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Spirit is dead, her father killed her.
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Spirit getting nerfed put the nail in the coffin for me. People say she's not dead, trust me she's dead, because they've essentially defeated the purpose of her kit, and have given survivors easy mode against a killer.
What drove the nail through the coffin is boon totems. This is a unnecessary mechanic.
Ik I sound very killer bias, but I cannot defend survivors when that role requires no brain to play or even remotely to be good at.
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Spirit forced survivors to guess. There was no thinking outside the box. You either guessed right or you didn't. This involved absolutely zero skill and was all based on luck vs the spirit's skill and setup.
Survivors are the ones being chased, it's on the killer to predict and outsmart the survivors. Survivors have to mindgame to avoid being predictable, as do killers.
The game is balanced around fun which is what makes it accessible to a larger number of people. The 4v1 will always be four different 1v1s due to the nature of different players skill levels.
Spirit will be fine. If feedback is positive towards the upcoming Spirit changes, then they likely won't add the visual cue.
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Yeah! only killers are allowed to have lose lose scenarios. They need to sit in a corner and shut up or play like the AI that survivors dream of with all options and counterplay stripped away from them. JuSt BreAk ThE pAlLeT bRo
Typically what is fun for survivor is horrendously not fun for killer.
I don't care about the spirit changes, but if you think she isn't dead for high mmr play, you are dreaming. They removed her speed and gutted her stealth.
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The thing is you can't purposely balance around noobs in games like that. Both sides have equal opportunity to play the broken things since it is symmetrical meaning even at high level play it will naturally be balanced. Just mirror the opposite side and boom Peak balance achieved.
asymmetrical games are different. We have two opposing sides with different goals and numbers. When you get to mediocre level play the numbers don't make sense and one side is clearly easier and faster to do than the other. Then it catastrophically falls apart at the higher end.
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Killers don't have lose-lose scenarios. I don't recall reading anything in the patch notes about gutting Spirit's speed. Spirit will be fine, stop with the doom and gloom. The "Us vs Them" mentality needs to stop.
The problem with high MMR play is that you're facing SWF Death Squads who rush gens and know every loop and tile, how to run it, how long they can run it for and when to use a different loop. Leaving Spirit as is because of high MMR wouldn't be an enjoyable experience for the rest of the player base.
My point regarding Overwatch was simply that balancing for the few may make the most sense competitively, but it comes at the expense of fun. Dead by Daylight isn't a competitive game like Overwatch is. The goal is to strike a balance between what's fun and fair for both sides.
Gen speeds are the biggest problem for high MMR, but nothing gets done when everything boils down to "Us vs Them".
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Sc2 has 200K+ players on average playing ranked and much more playing custom maps. Also Sc2 is known as best balanced RTS game. So u failed here.
Every single successful PvP game is balanced around strong players. Git gud is mandatory for this games. None is going to listen bronze noob whining about how he refuses to improve and asks for *easy* mode because using braincells is too hard for some people.
Edit: I just checked and it has 320K ranked players during last season.
Post edited by R2k on4 -
Successful doesn't mean fun. Balancing around the highest level of play makes sense competitively, but it at comes at the expense of fun. Dead by Daylight wants to be fun, not competitive.
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It has bigger player base than DbD. Don't use your meaning of fun here, it doesn't fit. Or u rly think all sc2 player hate the game? Don't be silly.
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Fun doesn't mean unbalanced and non-competitive either. A lot of people have fun competing.
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This is not the game for them, in that case.
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They removed all speed and duration addons so yes.. they gutted her speed.
God pallet isn't lose lose?
Haddonfield god window and house of pain isn't lose lose?
Do you play killer?
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She surely needed a nerf, but not what they did to her.
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"What they did" being... making it so survivors have the tiniest sliver of information and thus the ability to mindgame instead of making a guess based on nothing?
She's going to be fine. More than that, she's still going to be a top tier pick.
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This game is very boring and frustranting for killers. Every single match you see so many "second chances perks" and every survivor in discord know everything you do in the game, your hex totens gone immediately, if you dont find and down 1 survivor in the first minute, you will loss 2 or 3 gens, if you want kill, you are obligate use the same perk everytime, corrupt, everytime. click click, tbag, everytime is the same. And, next week, we have more buff for survivor, more shi* perks for help SWF. If you dont tunnel, you dont kill anybody. This game, at this moment is terrible unbalance. DEVS nerfed Old ruin because every killer used her, wheres nerf for dead hard?, borrowed time, unbreakable, iron will. Bacause, every survivor just used it, im included.
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Spirit wont be a top tier pick after those nerf. Maybe for the console player with crossplay off shes still going to be top tier but not for pc.
The thing is all are green addon and up are kinda bad now or they are fun addon but fun addon are not strong.
The worst thing is the dev are not finish with the spirit nerf. They did not have the time to add the dust kicking animation so just remember that nerf is coming to her kit soon enough unless the dev change their mind.
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First of all, they said they're keeping an eye on her to see if the dust kicking nerf is necessary. Maybe they'll do it, maybe they won't, but right now we'll be talking about Spirit as she was in the PTB, not with hypothetical changes added on top.
Her addons look pretty fine. Slightly gimmicky for some of them, but the better killer instinct one and the instant power recharge ones look very solid, so she's not been screwed on her addons. As for her basekit, she still retains all of her actual strengths and she's still substantially faster than survivors-- literally the only thing that's changed is that you can't stand still to mindgame, and very good survivors might not go down immediately if they make a good move. She's going to be fine, calm down.
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I dont really play her because i suck with her so her nerf wont touch me when i play her but i know my game against her will be easier by a lot. And i wont need to do any read against her the game will tell me the direction she phase.
Spirit real power was to make my teamate kill themself or DC lmao.
What im mad about in that patch are the deathslinger nerf the removal of quickscope is dumb and i see no reason not to learn huntress huntress over dearhslinger
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No reason to be mad about those either. The removal of quickscope may be unfortunate for people who enjoyed using it, but it was incredibly unfun and obnoxious to go against, so it only makes sense they'd shift him to require a little more commitment before landing a hit. He got buffs to compensate, so he's going to be just as fine as he was before.
Granted, the TR increase is a little questionable, that might end up hurting him unnecessarily. Wait and see on that one, I suppose- or grind for Monitor and Abuse on him, maybe?
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For me quickscoping was the only thing deathslinger had for himself compare to huntress specially because i could use my skill from the shooter game i play in the game but now all of that is worthless.
I know for the player who use deathslinger because he could quickscope they would probably stop playing him because its too slow compare to before.
You talk how unfun quickscoping is for the survivor but that what make deathslinger fun in my opinion.
If they want to remove the unfun thing they should do something about the hold w meta too but that another conversation and irelevant to the post
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Yeah, I don't have that much sympathy there. I do sympathise with something you enjoyed being taken from the game, but I'm sure anyone who used something obnoxious for the other side would find that fun- I imagine old Object of Obsession and Decisive Strike were pretty fun for the survivor side, but they still needed to be changed.
Deathslinger was given buffs to compensate for the annoying thing being taken away, so that's totally fine. Nothing to be mad at here, just momentarily bummed if you enjoyed quickscoping.
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For me that change ruin the killer and i regret every BP i invest in him now. That more or less 10 million bp wasted that i could put on another killer or better on the new survivor that coming out
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Sure, you're entitled to that. If you enjoy one specific thing and that one specific thing is changed, it's valid to be mildly annoyed with it.
Doesn't mean BHVR did anything wrong or that the change wasn't needed, though.
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I agree with some of this but their argument of "he had no counter-play" was such bs XD. Also they took his terror radius to normal and didnt give him a lullaby which is what allowed him to even get a decent hit off in the first place and honestly made him any semblance of a threat.
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Would have been so much easier/better to just fix it so you could hear her in her power even inside her terror radius, the directional and footprints idea was just some extra stuff to knock her down a peg and get survivors more in the power role and not have to make any reads
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If they wanted to be fun and not competitive they shouldnt have implemented SBMM, js
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It was nice coming back to the game as I thought it was really balanced and fun for a bit then as soon as pinhead came out it went downhill for killers really quick with the MMR system, destructive nerfs for specific killers, and BOON totems like excuse me? The only good thing that is coming out of this for killer mains is the excessive gutting of the keys. Which is honestly really nice as watching 3 man escapes is dull and a waste of time. Ugh and I thought it was bad back then with the insane changes with DS and BT that made it unplayable for killers. Now all I deal with is survivors that know what the W key is and its better than pallet looping.
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Those aren't lose-lose scenarios. For survivors, a lose-lose scenario refers to a situation in which they walk away injured regardless of their choice.
Before his nerf, Pyramid Head could cancel his rites of judgement and immediately swing. This created a lose-lose scenario at pallets where the survivor could drop the pallet and still be injured or not drop the pallet and still be injured, hence the term "lose-lose".
They didn't gut Spirit's speed, they changed her add-ons. Her base speed and speed while phasing are both unchanged.
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SBMM only tracks if you won or lost. It's more accurate to call it win based matchmaking. The more you lose, the easier your games will be. The more you win, the harder your games will be.
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spirit and deathslinger are pretty dead. Oni and Wraith, they just became weaker for no real apparent reason other than casual survivor bias.
Plague got improvement to her base-kit but some of her add-ons became worse. Neutral change. Trapper base-kit was improved. These killers were not amazing before and their changes do not really move needle that much.
TL:DR post:
The killers that were fun to play and somewhat viable against better players became worse.
The killers that were weak and were unfun to play vs better players did not really improve much.
More Details on other changes:
Blight already has good add-ons, He is mostly using Blighted crow+Blighted rat or Alchemist ring/C33. He doesn't need more add-ons. It does add variety but killers do not have much variety if they want to win.
Nurse acquired triple blink. She does not need triple blink. Range and Recovery are already good. The triple blink will allows nurse to counter dead hard and reduces her counter-play in a chase. This change is likely centered for newer players to have a better time learning nurse but is likely to make nurse less fun to play against if the player is good at her.
Pig got tamper timer nerf which is fine as add-on gave pig random rng moris. One of major complaints about pig's reverse beartraps is that reverse beartraps are RNG based, Pig's Annotated plans & Jigsaw sketch previously added extra boxes which reduced chance for a survivor to get their trap off on first attempt. These add-on were removed and this weakens Pig's 4vs1 game slowdown with traps. The same can be said for Crate of gears and Bag of gears. Her new add-ons for improving ambush speed and crouch speed are pitiful values. They're so unimpactful to the point that they should just be base-kit. Rule.set 2+Video tape is corrupt pig intervention.
TL:DR with Pig - Worse 4vs1 trap slowdown, no real improvement to other parts of her lackluster kit.
Hag & Myers alternative play-styles became better. Hag Waterlogged shoe is a bad version of freddy, so nobody will really use it over just playing regular hag. Purple tombstone piece & Judith have same problems as Tampered timer pig. Vanity mirror improvement is strange considering Wraith all-seeing becoming worse.
Billy changes nothing what was problematic about his add-ons. The problem with his add-ons were that Tuned Carburettor add-on has negative penalty of 110% m/s and Mother helper add-on relies on survivors actions to get chainsaw speed boost. They buffed the numbers of on the add-on but the problem is drawbacks. Pighouse Gloves only work when your overheated. This another drawback that makes add-on not worth using. The bonuses are not worth the power loss. Engraving still have charge time reducation and the add-on that offset this negative are still bad, so these add-ons more negative than helpful. Both iri add-ons still have negatives. Iri brick still has 2 second window drawback undetectable condition and Apex mufler still requires undetectable to be useful(Only worth using with tinkerer). Billy did not change, He is still same as before.
TL:DR Billy add-ons are bad because of their drawbacks.
Conclusively they are making killers less fun to play so we're going back to Dark times of DBD.
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Yes but the thing is, the devs havent really said what a "win" or a "loss" is and have further went to hide mmr so we cant see if we actually win or lose and what our mmr does accordingly, also sbmm tracks a match a 4 different 1v1's between killer and survivor based on the same amount of objectives which isnt ideal since your team can do objectives while you chase or do nothing and the game counts it as a win for you vs the killer 1v1
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They actually have. A win for killer is 2 or more kills. A win for survivors is simply escaping, and a loss is being killed or sacrificed. It doesn't track anything else.
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It's giving survivors something they can actually use to make a read, what are you talking about? If they don't know where she is, they're not "making a read", they're guessing.
Spirit is still going to stomp on people who aren't on the ball and skilled enough to use this information. She's still going to be very strong against people who are on the ball and skilled enough to use this information, it's just not a guaranteed hit anymore. Which... it shouldn't be.
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Spirit only had scratch marks to make a read, if you walked away with iron will you were fine, SHE had to make a read as much as survivors did
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I can get 2 kills a game all day and never pip and more often than not depip
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So IF you had a specific perk and IF you didn't rustle the environment and IF the Spirit player isn't smart enough to just cancel her power when they notice there aren't any more scratch marks, you were fine?
That's not counterplay. That's getting lucky. You, as the survivor, had no cues of any kind to make a read or make a play with, you just had to guess and hope. Now, you'll have those cues- and she's probably still going to hit you because she's very very strong.
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Pips aren't equivalent to winning. The MMR System doesn't factor in pips or what you did in the trial, it only cares how many kills you got. Pips are progress towards your grade, which isn't used for matchmaking.
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In the end the game still revolves around kills, you can get 8 hooks and 0 kills, that in mmr is 4 losses for killer
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just like every other killer besides nurse being dependent on IF the survivor makes the wrong read to get a hit at a good loop
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Could you elaborate? I'm not understanding your point, sorry.
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The dev have said what is a win in the last Q&A.
For survivor its escaping if you leave by the hatch its a draw.
For killer its killing the survivor and for killer you can win and lose in the same match.
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for most killers, at a loop they rely on a survivor to make the mistake in order to get a hit because of how loops are set up, they do their best with red glow mindgames and moonwalking but ultimately its up to the survivor to mess up. some killers with a good m2 can still end a chase at a loop regardless but if survivors are good it will take a while. so IF the survivor did/didnt vault, IF they didnt instadrop the pallet, IF they didnt see you moonwalk, then they maybe get a hit/down unless you have Dead Hard. Spirit made survivors guess if she was going a certain way and make their predictions based off of where she last was etc, she mad SURVIVORS have to try to mindgame HER with scratchmarks etc.
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Then you got outplayed, and you'll lose MMR and gradually get easier games. That's how the system works. When you win, you gain MMR. When you lose, you lose MMR. It's not rocket science.
As survivor, I'm no longer playing to escape because escaping means harder games. As killer, I get my 4 stacks of BBQ and then aim for as many points as possible without trying to sacrifice the survivors unless they do something to annoy me.
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That's not a mindgame, though? The reason mindgaming at loops works is because both parties are lacking information- you can't see the survivor and the survivor can't see you, hence why moonwalking and such sometimes works out for you and sometimes doesn't. With the Spirit, there is no mindgame- she knows where you are and you don't know where she is. Zero input from the survivor, they just make a guess and hope it works out.
Some specific killers being a little weak in chase doesn't justify the Spirit having zero counterplay beyond guessing, this is a weird point.
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