NOED NEEDS NERFED AND HERE IS WHY.
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The biggest issue with NOED, is that it feels very unfair. It gives you kills for free, when often times the killer wasn't even able to get more than 2-3 hooks the entire game prior to that. It's also mostly used by low/mid tier players, which means that all new players will face perks like NOED, or stuff like camping and tunneling a lot, and can easily be discouraged to the point where they just uninstall DBD and never look back, which of course is terrible for the game long term.
I think that killers using NOED, as well as camping hooks and tunneling, are all doing it for the same reason. It helps them get kills that they simply cannot get without it. Let me explain why.
So, I think most can agree, that at very high levels of play, like in top tournaments, killers pretty much have to camp and/or tunnel to stand a chance at winning, right? I feel like the community can agree, that at that point, survivors clearly have the advantage.
Now, think of what happens for the average killer, when they camp, tunnel and/or use NOED. At low/mid level MMR, Tunneling, Camping and NOED is very efficient, it helps the killer get a lot more kills on average than they would get if they avoided that stuff, everyone can agree with that, no? So, if they get a lot more kills because of that perk and those methods, their MMR goes up. What happens if they try play a game without those things suddenly? They most likely get 0 kills, because now they've ranked up and are facing survivors that are much more skilled than them. They are now in a situation similar to top level killers, playing in top tournaments. They basically have no chance of winning, if they don't tunnel, camp, use NOED, etc, because they are facing survivors that are out of their league. Some might argue that that's fine, and everyone can play whatever way they want to, and I don't disagree with that. I do however feel like those types of gameplay should not be the easiest and most efficient ways of winning games, especially not at lower level, where it will for sure drive away new players.
It's not good that new players trying out the game, gets tunneled and face camped every single game of the 5-10 games they play, then decide that the game is crap, uninstall and never look back. It's terrible for the game long term, and personally a few of my friends that I managed to convince to try the game out, had exactly that experience, decided that the game sucks, uninstalled and won't ever play the game again. (I do have a few friends that does play the game too, so not everyone gives up, I get that, but it's not a great first impression of the game).
It would be better for the games health long term, and it's ability to attract new players, if camping and tunneling was nerfed to the point where it's not an efficient way to get kills at low/mid tier anymore. And perks like NOED only adds to that same problem. You can argue all you want that you can run certain perks, cleanse totems, get better at the game etc, but that simply does not apply to newer players at all. They don't have all the perks, they don't know the totem spawns, they're new, and they're not going to want to put in the time and effort to overcome that hurdle. NOED, along with a few other perks on both sides should honestly be nerfed, aswell as camping and tunneling.
I don't see how anyone can argue that NOED giving an unskilled killer "free" kills that they weren't able to get before the endgame, is actually fair. I agree with several other people have suggested in this thread, that NOED should trigger the moment that the 5th gen is finished, so that everyone can see it and it doesn't come as a surprise when the killer gets their first hit on someone after it's activated. It would be more fair, it'd give survivors a little more time to react and search for the totem, while still being a fairly powerful perk in lower tiers.
At higher tiers, you honestly rarely see NOED, the survivors are more experienced and can often deduce that the killer likely has NOED long before it triggers and play accordingly, possibly even clearing all totems before NOED has a chance to activate, they're able to much more quickly find the totem as they have a better idea of where totems spawns, and it's honestly not that great of a perk at that level.
NOED is basically only efficient against newer and/or less skilled players, because they can't cleanse it fast enough, they can't deduce that the killer most likely is running it before it triggers, and they're not skilled enough to get unhooks against a camping killer with NOED, so they either try and fail, or just don't try at all and let the person die on hook. How is this good for the game?
My whole point is that NOED, along with camping and tunneling, is only really efficient against newer/less skilled players. Better survivors can deal with all of that much better, especially in a swf where they can communicate. This has two consequences. The first is that it drives away potentional new players, because no one enjoys spending the whole game on a hook or being tunneled and many won't play long enough to improve to the point where they know how to deal with it. The second thing is that newer/less skilled killers relies too heavily on it, to the point where they're not learning how to become a better killer, but doubles down and gets more and more reliant on camping, tunneling, and perks like NOED to stand a chance to get any kills at all as their MMR goes up and they're facing survivors that are out of their league.
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run out the gate and not feed the killer anymore free kills.
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It's not necessarily that hard to get all the Totems and prevent the perk's activation, it does take up time, but if everyone works together to do it, it doesn't take long at all. The problem with NOED is how powerful it is against solo q, as they cannot coordinate if all the Totems are gone yet and don't know whether to pop the last gen or not.
There's three perks, Small Game, Counterforce, and Detective's Hunch that help with Totem finding, the third one likely being the best. I used to hate NOED too until I actually learned how simple it is to prevent, now I prevent it almost every game, and it becomes a much more simple task when I'm in a party, as I can ask them to help me.
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It's already a Hex. If no one is on death hook then it's an entirely wasted perk, and it can be cleansed even when it works.
I agree NOED is pretty oppressive in the right circumstances, but this would be too far.
My prefered NOED rework:
When the final gen is repaired, all remaining totems are snapshotted and you gain that many tokens. Survivors are exposed as long as you have a token, attacks consume tokens. In addition, it doesn't generate a Hex totem, so cannot be cleansed once triggered, it must be prevented preemptively.
This adds a skill element because if you miss an attack you're wasting your limited instadowns.
Post edited by Seraphor on2 -
Noed is fine. It doesn't need a nerf
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Everyone on here claiming do bones yada yada. Like I said Nerf NOED to being exposed only when you have reached your death hook state.
Right now as it stands killers are seemingly using it as a crutch perk. That doesn't help them become better killers at all.
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I don't mind the perks existence, the only thing I don't like about it is the fact that it's very good against solo q but not so much against full parties. They cannot coordinate how many Totems are broken and thus won't know whether to pop the last gen or not.
NOED on it's own isn't the issue. Solo q is.
I actually wrote a thread on why I think NOED should be basekit, go check it out if you'd like - https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/292356/make-noed-basekit-hear-me-out
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You can't teabag anymore at the exit gate?
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Give a notification that the killer is NOED and will not have food
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that's what i've been suggesting.
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Or just expect noed from the start 😉
I always play solo and very rarely noed will be activated, so it's not impossible.
Survivor don't need to be hold hands and tell what is active, there are many other indications when a hex is active but only after interaction.
Ruin: you need to have touched a gen first.
Undying: you need to be in close proximity of a dull totem.
Toth: need to interact with either a dull or a hex totem.
Devour: you need to get hit at a 3 stack minimum.
So why should noed give you an notification without getting hit first? 🤷🏼♂️
If you're annoyed, irritated or scared of noed, then just do the secondary objective and all problems are solved.
For noed that is of course 😉
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I am also for changes
Make it so the survivor knows that the killer has NOED and it isn't that annoying blow
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It is necessary to remove the additional movement speed for the killer, since this perk is already strong
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For that is blood warden.
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Man said DS is useless LOLOL
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Hex perk last 1 min every game and you want one of those to be nerfed? why dev shoudn´t have to nerf Dead hard o spine chill or Decisive strike? probably if there were less advantage for crying surv like you there will be less killers using noed
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Yeah but it is totally useless now.
They can't abuse is by powering through the gens and not to worry about being grabbed of the gen.
They just don't realize it now is more of what it was supposed to be, an anti tunnel perk.
But some survivors really need to have their hands being held to be somewhat decent during the match.
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Well, I hate noed too because I'm a survivor main and I agree with your viewpoints except that I don't think NOED should be nerfed, not directly at least. As of now, Jill's perk "counterforce" is a strong counterplay on noed if you clear all totems. Try to spare a thought for the killers.
4v1 means that
4 perks and a skill has to fight 16 perks and 4 items. That has 2 health states and able to go on the hook twice each. I'm not saying this game is survivor sided or anything but can you imagine not nerfing DS and then the killer has to eat it 4 times? That's really unfair compared to a totem you can clear to rid the noed hex and an audible one at that OR just clear all totems during the game.
I hope you think in a "fair for everyone" standpoint.
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DS is really useless at the moment
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Not in my experience it's not. I think people who say DS is useless are still salty about the fact that it got a nerf to begin with and you don't have it regardless of actions. If I can get away and go to a gen or be healed up then I really didn't need it anyways, but those times I do need DS it works as it should.
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If you got some sort of speed bonus with it or its stun time was based off the level, like level 1 5 secs, level 2 6 seconds, level 3 = 7 secs, then maybe DS would be a bit more useful. Right now it's completely not worth taking.
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- I've lost a lot of survivors at the end of the game to 99'd gates and DS. It's far from useless.
- Noed is really good. It's also fragile. In most games for me, there's two boons up and at my MMR the survivors seem to either 5 point my totems, or once NOED is revealed its destroyed very quickly after.
- Its possible they might change it to show the status, who knows? I don't think it will make a very large difference. If a Killer facecamps their one NOED down, then they'll still just get one kill. There's no difference between that, and an updated status making it so the survivor swat team wont show up to bullyblocksave the guy on the hook. Who also probably has DS. A DS that will let him skate right out the door.
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Isn't that basically the artists new perk? Hook everyone once and block gens for 40 seconds.
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Yeah, basically.
Seeing Grim Embrace, I'd keep my perk how it is and then buff the duration to 60 seconds.
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Next time try hiding, or not immediately rushing into a locker right in front of me.
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NOED is fine, DS is also fine. I don't know why you think DS is useless, it's one of my favorite perks as survivor. I rarely use NOED, mostly on killers i am learning to get better with or if i don't have anything else when i prestige. I don't understand why it should get nerfed. In my opinion it's fair and balanced.
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??? I dont get it.
Did I mention about me hiding in locker or something?
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Point 1: I don't think I'd like two perks with so much overlap. NOED is an expose perk. It helps killers kill and be powerful. It's their super saiyan. If I saw a rework I personally would be behind, it would need to keep that part of the current perk.
Point 2: If it WAS reworked your way, I think we'd see a lot of BBQ, Corrupt, NOED, Grim Embrace. 2 minutes in the beginning of the game, 60 seconds and 40 seconds in the middle of the game. BBQ to keep finding people after hooks.
Point 2.B: I think this version of the perk, requiring "4 hooks" would lead to more tunneling. If you just need 4 hooks from anywhere, your going to take the low hanging fruit as best as you can.
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