Otzdarva is proving you that the game is not Survivor sided
Yesterday Otzdarva made a stream when he tried to prove this point.
So he took every killer, he used really good perks and god tier addons and played.
He obliterated every lobby (most of the time, it was with 4 gens left). Of course sometimes survivors were'nt that strong, but still they at least played DS/DH.
As a killer main (95%/5% killer/survivor). I do not know what to think about ? Am I delusional to think that survivors have advantages over the killer ? But my POV is biaised by the fact I only played killer since I started plyaing (around 200h)
I would like to know what do you think about this ? Does it prove that the game is not survivor sided ? What is your POV on that ? Please also let know other people which role you main !
Comments
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You can never compare the playstyles/ability of someone that plays this game professionally to anyone else.
Same thing when people claim its survivor sided because X streamer escapes most of their matches.
The game started off survivor sided but has had a lot of changes over the years and currently (definitely prior to boons) is the easiest killer has ever been.
With all that said, the power is still where it has always been: "Comp" SWF>Killer>Solo.
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I mean... hes trying to prove a point that has already been proven wrong before. The whole competitive scene has perk restrictions on survivors and on a good team they can def still 3 out vs a good killer. Now imagine comp if you were able to run 4 ds, unbreakables, dh, bt/deli/comraderie. Yeah, let's just say most of those good killers would be getting 2 kills at max.
With how this game is currently its 100% survivor sided with most maps having large gen spreads, insane gen speeds along with that, seemingly a pallet at every other filler (unless its shelter woods), toolboxes/medkits, good loops, etc. this game is most definitely survivor sided.
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Then you have Ayrun destroying every killer, what is your point? That people who has this game as a job are better than normal players, no #########...
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That proves nothing tbh. Otz can't win consistently anymore, that's why there is no more 4k streaks
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I watched some of it and the survivor mistake was just making me scratch my head and a good chunk of the survivors had rainbow grades( i know grade doesn't matter but still) and doesn't even have Tier 3 perks..it's green. I think he should let the epic games settle down and try again when Grade resets where survivor usually try hards the most.
I still think the game is survivor sided if everyone is doing one gen each(No one messing around doing flashlight fails, doing mukbang on hooks,etc) and every one at least know how to hold a 30-40 second chase also drag the killer away from the objective.
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Let's be honest, you don't have to be that good to be "dead squad". Yeah, unless it's also decent top3 killer, but otherwise? Just do gens and don't get downed under a minute during first chases.
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Nah, that doesn’t prove anything. There are too many variables to cover in order to make that assessment, and Otz can’t cover them all in one stream.
Time of Day
MMR
Region
Platform
SWF or no SWF
The game is SWF sided. Plain and simple. Not killer sided, not survivor sided- just plain F’n SURVIVE WITH FRIENDS SIDED.
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Otz vs RNG lobbies when not playing gimped is rarely going to be a fair comparison. The guy plays all the time, knows both sides, and is really good on top of that.
Like, there's a reason his 50-win streaks were without addons (or trading a perk slot for a necessary addon in some killers) even with the extra-stringent win condition he put in place, when matchmaking was even further potato.
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Still waiting on the 50 streaks.
Also he gets paid to play, he has more experience than most, rarely people ######### talk him even when he camps and tunnels, which is kinda often these days.
Love that guy but you should never compare someone that gets paid to play and a normal person.
Edit: if he wants to prove that the game isn't survivor sided, he should play against comp players at least like 100 matches back to back, then that is when he can get the average.
I remember back in the day when he played against a comp team and got demolished, I'm not saying that he played bad or anything but he was playing old spirit with noed and I believe he didn't get 1 kill, also when he played old ormond against 1 single comp player and 3 randoms that threw the game.
Post edited by OldHunterLight on8 -
Yes. All you need to do is to play strongest add ons, strongest perks, use map offering, have 7000 hours in the game and its easy.
Oh and also you need to pray survivors wont bring their strongest ######### as well, otherwise it wont work
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Yeah and I wouldn't say he is affraid to tunnel... He does it more than before lately.
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It doesn't prove anything other than a highly-skilled individual with the strongest add-ons can beat those survivors he played at that point in time, on that day, on that map, with those actions. I understand where he is coming from, but it doesn't really add anything to thw argument, in my view.
I really don't know whether the game is biased towards one side and I have no major interest as to it neither. But every single trial is unique with so many factors to consider. Certain things can tip the scales, such as SWF comms or a pro-killer, alongside all that rng, but it's not clear-cut. Indeed, the kill rates I saw recently still indicate killers that are lower down in tier-lists like Pig or Cannibal out-perform higher-tiered killers like Spirit or Nurse (who has the worst kill rate). Again, of course this is down to many factors, but the fact is on average that is what the killer results are. According to results, Pig is S-Tier and Myers (who a lot mock for being weak) still has one of the highest kill rates.
So ultimately, the idea of the game being biased towards one side or the other is subjective. According to above, it's slightly killer-sided, unless you're playing Trickster or Nurse when it becomes survivor-sided. And even that assumption is wrong because of so many other factors, but really this is the only solid evidence available to go on.
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I don't think so. Before boons and MMR killers had higher winrate. Now most of them can't kill that easily.
If they run pink add-ons, it can be broken just like Coh etc and pretty much carry their match.
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That's not really how it works. Did you really just say that this game is survivor sided for Nurse?
You see, it's kinda dumb to say 50% is balanced. You camp first survivor and then get second kill with NOED? Is it balanced game?
Even when you played really bad, if you didn't give up you can get at least 1 kill, so it's not between 0-4, but results are between 1-4.
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Who would have thought the streamer with 6k hours using the best perks and addons available is more likely to win matches. Thank god everybody plays just like that.
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It's funny how everyone is always praising Otz on here but as soon as he says killer isn't impossible suddenly his opinion doesn't matter anymore lol.
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Also because in 4k streaks he doesnt use any add ons
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Who cares what Otzdarva says? He proved a point, so what? Like it’s going to change the game completely.
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The game is absolutely survivor sided at high mmr. Being survivor sided does not mean killers can't win. I think you need to experience high mmr games before stating whether or not the game is x sided.
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Honestly, it's what I said all along. The game is sided towards experience. The longer you play the better you get.
The balance is pretty good right now. Really good experienced killers are doing just fine. More casual players whom think they are really good are not, and hence, a vocal minority.
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The comp scene literally proves that this game favors survivor.
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As a very experienced Killer, I am in P A I N
The game is ######### miserable at higher MMR. Do I 4K most of my matches? Yes. That's not what I am arguing.
The high-skill experience of this game is the antithesis of fun. It takes the fun part and skillful part of the game (chases) and makes it something that will cost you the match for participating in.
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That doesn't prove anything.
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Otz has paid actors though.
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Well, as an opinion that I highly respect on the forums, I will concede to your experience.
I don't play that way anymore, so I know my games are more chill ,but, all winnable.
But, if you face constant teams of survivors with the skillset of say an Ayrun, then I imagine it would be quite difficult. But how do you balance around just these two playstyles alone? And I'm sure there are many more.
High MMRers may have no choice but to play this way, because if balanced for high mmr it would kill the game for chill casual players.
If anything, I'd say adjust gen speeds to correlate with higher MMR players.
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One thing I think is funny about him is the fact that I watched a video of his claiming that "oh, sometimes you can't win, relax a bit, learn more, you can't be as good as you think you are so cool off if you lose,yadda yadda.." on the other hand of the channel you have things like "100 killer streaks" lol
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Oh, no, I didn't want you to concede to my experience. I was merely sharing my own experiences. Everyone is different, but thank you for the very kind words <3
We can't balance around high MMR. That will kill the game, no question. But we can balance the game for high MMR.
Think of it this way. Why doesn't Nurse dominate the low Ranks? Because she takes a lot of muscle memory and has a steep learning curve. She's simultaneously the strongest Killer in the game and can compete at the highest MMR, yet she doesn't destroy casual or new players.
Another example, why doesn't Dead Hard get value in lower MMR? Because when Jake panic Dead Hard's into a wall, it doesn't really matter. He gets no value from his perk. But at high MMR, the Nea who uses it to extend a loop another 20 seconds may have just won the game.
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Well, it actually isn't balanced because I'm 4K'ing.
But yeah, it just isn't fun.
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I think otz is highly over rated streamer, which I honestly cannot watch, especially where just as would enter the queue, he decides to go and explain all perks for next 3 hours.
majority of swf quite rekt him. But random queues…depends from game to the game.
As he is bhvr partner, his opinion is always more of a subjective matter
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I mean he makes money (partially) off streaming Dead by Daylight, so its not much of a strectch to see that he would be winning a lot.
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Stop making popular streamers the voice of the DBD community.
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It would be pretty sad if the dude who lives and breathes DBD couldn't beat some randoms
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Unironically, a certain dev plays exactly like in your noed example. It makes one put things into perspective.
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Seriously?
His job is to play this game, this comparison is absurd. Most players have jobs, colleges etc, he is dedicated almost 99% to the game.
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All Otz proved is that if you play the game for 8 hours a day (for years), and use strong builds, you can win consistently. People already knew that.
Not everyone has as many hours as Otz, or for that matter, as many meta builds on every Killer.
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yeah exactly!!!
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the thing i hate the most about these post is they don't post a clip.
You have ZERO excuses, twitch has a clipping system and otz doesn't care if you clip/post his stuff, the least you could do is provide a link.
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Did you not see that compared to his other streaks, he got a 20 on Pinhead instead of his usual 50?
Just because you used meta builds doesn't mean you'll always win, the game still takes skill to play and trust me when I say most of the killers in dbd get utterly dominated by higher tier survivors compared to the higher tier killers against higher tier survivors
You are more likely going to 4k with Nurse than 4k with Pinhead for example
BHVR needs to go through and fix all the killers in dbd that simply do not fit with the gameplay now (Pig, trapper, pinhead, legion, Twins, Demo *Probably not demo but still mentioning it*, Ghostface, Nemesis, Freddy again, Michael, Wraith, Trickster, and Slinger) and bring them up to the degree of the higher tier killers, but also work on the perks that people forgot even existed (Lmao ya'll 100% forgot hangman's trick existed, along with many others), same goes for the survivor perks that are also utterly useless and bring them to the strength that the survivor meta holds onto (Nobody uses visionary)
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Who is Otzdarva?
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^This.
These forums are such a killer-sided echo-chamber that it's not even funny sometimes.
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That doesn't prove anything.
Otz is an experienced player who has been in the Fog since Pig's release. His content proves that an experienced player could win against those specific Survivors, at that point in time, by using a specific build and playing in a specific manner.
The things is, not every single killer has the same level of experience, or wants to run the same builds, or will face the same survivors, and the list goes on...
Streamers like him play DBD for 8 hours a day or so because they get payed to, and that obviously makes you see the game through a different approach that doesn't reflect how the situation actually is for the majority of the community.
Is killer impossible? Nope, definitely not.
Is this the best it has ever been for killers? Also no.
MMR shenanigans and the overpowered Boons create situations where matches are really sweaty and frustrating, and killers just happen to get the worst of it.
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Nah.
It's more when people try to use him as an example that the game isn't balanced.
That's like setting a comp team loose in pubs and saying "look look, every Survivor needs nerfed."
Otz isn't a comp player, but he is good. He plays everyday and it is his job. He is not the norm.
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^^^
Correct. What Otz PROVED is that if you are skilled and play well you can still do great as a killer (not 4K every game but still do great). People dismissing it as, "But it's Otzs" are essentially arguing that they should be able to do great as killer WITHOUT being as skilled as the great killers.
The devs aren't dumb, they easily see (just like us) what each side is capable of. They know SWF coordination can be powerful. They know killers can usually secure 2 kills, easily over the course of a match. They know soloQ can be rough. The only difference is, they don't have our biases and they have the numbers.
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I guarantee I can find several examples of where a Killer-player posted some streamer video suggested survivors are OP and almost everyone agrees with them. Yet you have the exact opposite happen and almost everyone on the forum disagrees.
Heck, I've seen it where someone will post a single screenshot of one match and almost everyone on the forum will agree survivors are OP.
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Because one of those checks out math-wise. If Survivors play well, the match is theirs to lose. That doesn't mean Killers don't have a shot, but it does mean they rely on Survivor mistakes in order to win.
Killer is for sure OP at lower MMR though. No doubt about it.
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Probably he is low mmr, because every killer complaining in this forum always play against a death squad swf
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It doesn't though. Up further in this discussion is the kill-rates posted by BHVR itself. And if you look at it, it shows the Killers as having a little above 50% kill rate on average, slightly leaning toward the Killer side.
I don't doubt that high level SWF play can beat high level Killer play, but that's the exact same as discounting what Otz is saying, because he is a professional.
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And I'm pretty sure we've had discussions on why those Kill Rates are completely unusable in any serious argument.
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Yeah its funny because some people dont take the maps into consideration. The majority of the maps are survivor sided with a couple of killer sided ones and the rest balanced (McMillan Estate etc). Even with gen defense perks its hard. The only advantage killers may have on bad maps like RPD station, That new map , Haddonfield and Red Forest is that if you have Undying/Ruin your Ruin may stay up long enough for you to slow the survivors down and get a win ie a3/4k.
DBD is survivor sided and does not cater to competitive players like myself at all. Solo is like hardcore DBD which makes it interesting. Survivor sided but still a fun game!
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I agree with you: perks, add-ons, survivor-comp, maps, etc all contribute to the chances of each side winning. I also agree that this game will never be perfectly balanced. I do think we can both agree that average kills vs escapes (over a long period of time) can give us a clue as to how balanced the game currently is and is possibly the only way to get any idea on balance.
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