Otzdarva is proving you that the game is not Survivor sided
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I mean, has he done KYF matches with him as the Killer against the same group he does that SWF one-life-only with?
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FYI A second kill isn’t guaranteed with NOED if the survivors are healthy and on first hook. They can find the totem, cleanse it, then do a Borrowed Time plus DS save.
Also even when it works 2 kills is a draw, not a win, even by MMR standards.
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this is a global statistic.
I would be more interested in charts regarding MMR range
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First of all Otz has like what... 10k hours about now? He represent the top 0.5%. Besides what he is testing you can't possibly ever do correct, unless you spread the statistics over 1000 matches. ofcrouse survivors have the advantage, especially when its a swf with discord :D that is just pure logic.
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I disagree.
A 2K at 4 hooks with NOED is different then a 2K with 10 hooks.
Yet, according to those Kill Rates, those matches are the exact same.
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Yeah but you failed to mention that there are also killer add on restrictions as well.
The comp scene shouldn't be used as a major source of evidence for the killer vs survivor sided argument. Comp is played much differently then your normal play. They have a clearly defined objective/point/win system that standard play doesn't have.
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You'd need him to play customs vs a sweaty SWF for a ton of matches to really prove anything.
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I think every killer has their own MMR now so he would have to keep playing those killers continuously until he knew for a fact that he was playing high MMR games. Instead he took each killer and played 1-2 games with them, barely getting any MMR I'm sure, and saying "Look! Its balanced"
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not against Bubba
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The Bubba argument drives me bat ######### crazy. Every survivor acts like when Bubba is around it's a guaranteed 2k. What? Did that first survivor START on the hook?
Against a somewhat competent team that Bubba is going to have to go through 15 pallets for his first down.
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Otz has like 5k+ hours and is playing full-on tryhard with best in slot everything, vs randoms and casuals with random perks and items. Of course he’s going to win a lot. Just as any survivor streamer can escape over and over under the same conditions.
If the game is not survivor sided, why are only 3 of 26 killers able to compete in comp? Just bad luck?
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Ahh yes the best compression ever its like saying cooking a complete menu from scratch isn't hard cause Gordon Ramsey can do it
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Does Bubba need NOED?
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I like Otz but like many people pointed out this proves nothing so you should fix your title. Before somebody complains that its a Killer echo chamber I'm a Survivor main so that's not a good strawman to use. The majority of my social media footage and Twitch footage is Survivor, I just happen to play a lot of Killer as well (2924 Kills in total)
Kill rates are useless in arguments, the Developers are quoted on these same "echo chamber forums" saying this themselves, the best players know and acknowledge the game at the high end favors Survivors. The thing that people keep trying to do is using fallacies and acting as if people mean its impossible to win beyond a certain level when they say its survivor sided, nobody is saying its impossible so that narrative needs to die. People just say that towards the higher brackets of MMR, your skill as a Killer matters less and less, what matters more is what perks/addons/maps are played and how many mistakes the Survivors make.
Its not a random thought echoed on a chamber when some of the same, the same content creators people cherrypick quotes from are quoted agreeing with this at various points of time so arguing over it is silly.
TLDR: Strawman argument so incorrect. Otz hasn't proved anything, Top MMR brackets favor Survivor but it does not mean its impossible for Killers to win at this level. It just means that their individual skill matters less, the maps/perks/addons/survivor mistakes matter more and the opposite is true in Low MMR brackets
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For proving that point he must play against a team of full meta perks with Purple Medkits, Toolboxes with BNPs and having around the same amount of hours he have. He's a very experienced killer using broken addons against a bunch of randoms, that proves nothing.
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It doesn't seem like he is showing that the game isn't survivor sided, as much as he is showing that if you take the top perks and play to win at all costs, then it is possible to win at all costs. He has done the same thing with survivor/SWF and had the same results.
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Look up Team Oracle vs some streamers - that is some hard stuff.
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That's because otz is op
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Sorry, this is a terrible conclusion to draw. 99.9% of killers do not have the skill or time in the game that Otz does
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No, what otz proved is that when you are ACTUALLY good at the game, you will do good against ACTUALLY good survivors, but most "killer mains" now act like improving and getting better isn't reasonable, and act like you are lying when you say you don't feel horrible playing killer.
Otz has always said that you shouldn't just blame survivors for your loss, you should want to look at your own improvement, he even made another recent video talking about it. Play both sides, learn the game, and want to get better, stop blaming other stuff for your loss when good killer players show it isn't always a stomp.
These new players are the louder majority acting like survivors are so op broken when you only play one side and still have a lot to improve on.
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So you want to balance the game around one of the best killers in the world, who most of us probably learned to play the game from at all?
k
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I don´t know what Otz wants to achieve with that. More killer nerfs? More survivor buffs? Even heavier restricted tournaments?
Because one thing is for sure, on the highest level of play, survivors always stomp killers.
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And also he has videos where he loses.
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What is often forgotten is, that i as normal killer don´t have all these powerful addons. You need an insane amount of Bloodpoints to get a lot of these.
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The game can be strong for killer if you are lucky or if you do everything right.
wait who is that over their
OH GOD IT'S YOU
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Everyone is playing DH/DS, even at a really low MMR : on some killers, i often leave 3 survivors escape as i have pity... loosing a ton of MMR and everyone has DH/DS/BT etc...
I have seen some of the Otz's stream... with the trapper he was facing baby survivors.
I'm pretty sure he is de-ranking off stream on the weakest killers to give some entertainment and variety to his streams. No one would look someone camping/tunneling to win or someone loosing every trials with 3 hooks only.
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Kill rate stats are so juked that no one should take them seriously. If I'm playing against really good survivors, a lot of the time if I get 2 - 3 kills it's because someone just threw themselves at me in the EGC trying to save my one kill that I was going to get. They could have just left and it would have been a 1k
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u talking about the low mmr killers he always paly against in his videos where he performs cj techs, dumb techs and else?.
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I can believe this, his content seems to have changed a bit since the hour of the witch update. No more 50 win streaks for example. He is an amazingly good killer and I like Otz but he is a content creator making videos for yt also, got to have something to fill them.
For contrast if you ever watch tru3 on stream he just consistently plays game after game, both sides but sometimes killer focused streams. Now he really is top mmr and it shows, swf's making use of all the kit that survivors have available. Like otz he is really really good and does well, but you do see the stuff that top survivors can get away with.
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Well you also have to remember that Otz is like, really really good at this game. So as much as I enjoy his content, he may not be the best comparison point when it comes to the experiences of your typical player.
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When you included the average, then the 2k with 4 hooks NOED game, is balanced out with all the other games.
Also, since NOED is in the game, then NOED has to be counted. People may consider it a lower skill perk, but if you don't include it, then the game isn't balanced to what is currently in the game. Plus, there are several perk combos that work with NOED.
I play both sides. When I played survivor, I wanted the Developers to remove the hatch because the hatch was artificially inflating escape rates. And I knew that with it's removal, survivors would be buffed (Which they were).
From a Killer-player prospective, I'm the same with face-camping and proxy-tunneling. Those 2 tactics are artificially raising Killer kill rates and those 2 skills are extremely low-skill-ceiling.
However, since they are in the game, they must be counted for kills and escapes.
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And yet he can't do 50-win streaks anymore because all that will happen is he goes against 1 decent team, and they take away his streak. There are some killer matches you just have to take the loss on, because the game isn't designed to where you can win based on your skill alone. It's up to the survivors making too many mistakes.
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I have 4x more hours on survivor and still think that game is surv sided when team doesn't mess around and have basic understanding of tiles.
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Yo quick question do you think Nurse is by far the worst killer in the game and that Pig is S+ tier?
Just wondering why you believe so strongly in the stats of a party game.
Every competitive game uses stats from their equivalent of "high-elo". Rainbow Six does not balance the game around Copper IV players just as League refrains from buffing 44% winrate champions because they are strong in competitive and terrible in SoloQ.
Dead by Daylight doesn't have accurate elo, and even if it did the developers don't want to show MMR. This game will never be balanced.
TL;DR The NBA doesn't lower the hoop to 6 feet because 2nd graders can't reach
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Otz is a strategist player that play both side. He know what trap is going to take you out as trapper. As survivor I don't think i seen him run the same meta as other. He find way to incorporate different perks. You can't compare him to someone who is a regular.
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So does casual players only matter when they are killers then?
Because as far as these forums go, they think that devs shouldn't be balancing for the casual player.
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Because comp =/= Public matches. Also they're not what the whiny and polarising forum spammers cry about. Comp is dumb and this game was never, nor will it ever be, made for any sort of competitive scene.
You are not facing comp players. You are facing the same casual turds Otz is stomping with every killer. The only variable is that most people are absolute scrubs next to Otz. Which is fair, he does this for a living and he's talented in mastering games and entering rigorous mindsets to achieve greatness in games he loves (Dark Souls for example). But ultimately he's proving that with skill, the 'sided' arguments just stem from people's shortcomings and putting the fault on the other side.
Though I won't deny the game's design is incredibly flawed.
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He used really good perks with "god" tier add-ons. Your words. Exactly what point are you trying to make?
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These mean nothing it says the nurse is the worst killer in game at 42%
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This ^
DbD community: the game needs to be balanced at top level.
Also DbD community: what Otz says doesn't apply to us because he's a top level player.
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He plays around 8 hours a day where his rule is to not throw the game, he tries to get as many kills as he can get and doesn't give exit game escapes since that would lower his MMR, he has specifically said he plays this way so people don't accuse him of deranking, he is proving he isn't playing with babies and his mmr should be extremely high on nearly on killers.
also did you forget he was a trapper main with most of his time on trapper lmao
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Otz go against randoms. There was some survivor who escaped 300 games in a row or something like that. Killers can't do anything against a really good team. Tru played against some proffesional survivor team and in one game he did not even get one hook as Wraith. A really good team should get 4 escapes every game no matter who they play against.
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Survivors have perk restrictions but guess what?
So do killers, in fact theres only a certain pool of killers that are allowed to used in some cases. In fact using DbE's format Nurse, Blight, Spirit and Twins arent allowed in the first round. So people have to get creative and a good chunk of the time they do
Restrictions in games is nothing new
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Otz has a brain the size of massachusets. Someone as good as him ofc is gonna perform better than someone who plays casually. Im a red rank killer and have been for a couple years now. I wouldnt consider myaelf even close to him in skill. The game is 100 percent survivor sided and otz being one of the best players out there doesnt prove otherwise.
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And a mercy hatch escape is different from a escape through the doors. And??
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Schrodinger's killer main: "Im top high mmr flawless killer player and game is unplayable at high ranks. i demand survivors nerfs!"
also Schrodinger's killer main: "Don't compare me with Otz, im casual player who just wants to have FUUUUUUN!"
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Uh...no, no he didn't.
I watched a good part of that stream and it depended entirely on which map he got and whether he was given a 'snack' group by SBMM or a strong SWF.
He got absolutely trounced in one of his Hag games for example, even when he resorted to facecamping and slugging.
Remember - BHVR are adding a mechanical change to discourage facecamping.
Beyond this - he's also Otz. The guy has thousands upon thousands of hours on killer, plays this game for a living and still has games where he gets absolutely rolled.
You can't possibly use him as a 'this game is killer sided' argument.
I enjoy him. He manages to be human without being insufferable or toxic and does a lot of very entertaining or informative videos. I don't agree with him on everything - especially when he slips towards politics - but as far as DbD streamers go, he's really good.
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As I pointed out in the last paragraph I wrote.
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Sorry but hes not an average player like most of us, hes a very skilled person who its highly functional with every killer and survivor, with a big amount of knowllege of perk sinergy and map awareness.
It doesnt prove the game isnt sided to one or the other, the same could be said about high level survivor players, they could loop and destroy every killer if they wanted, does that meen the game its survivor sided by that logic?
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Casual players only matter on these forums when they can be used to fit a specific narrative >.<
If the same casuals contradict that narrative then they must be ignored!
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