https://twitter.com/OtzdarvaYT/status/1479469096739774469?s=20
https://twitter.com/OtzdarvaYT/status/1479466221091315714?s=20
https://twitter.com/OtzdarvaYT/status/1479463573948620812?s=20
The intent was not to illustrate that the game is anything sided. It was to illustrate that killers have to sweat and impede survivor enjoyment in order to win consistently. Yall are as bad as behavior just looking at numbers without context.
General Discussions
General Discussions
I'm so happy people are finally realizing this game is so killer sided
gendoss
Member Posts: 2,270
I wonder if the narrative on the forums will ever change from killer's being oppressed. People like Otz and Scott Jund are finally admitting it because there is just so little evidence on the contrary.
EDIT: I realized that I probably made the title a bit misleading. I meant it as more "not as survivor sided as people make it out to be" than straight up killer sided.
Post edited by gendoss on
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Comments
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So any other evidence that shows that the game is survivor sided should be ignored but just cause one video from otz which the stats he put out needs to be put into question and scott who barely plays killer now.
Not to mention both do not have the most recent patch and both are being paid to play this game so they have more time than most.
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Before I stopped playing I escaped most games since SBMM, maybe 1/10 I might die.
Most killers got 2-6hooks max in all the games, I also didnt see half of the roster.
This was all solo Q too. Just because a streamer does something dont make it a fact. Many factors go into a games outcome.
Edit: although nerf DH distance and I'd say the games pretty good balance wise.
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https://twitter.com/OtzdarvaYT/status/1479466221091315714?s=20
https://twitter.com/OtzdarvaYT/status/1479463573948620812?s=20
The intent was not to illustrate that the game is anything sided. It was to illustrate that killers have to sweat and impede survivor enjoyment in order to win consistently. Yall are as bad as behavior just looking at numbers without context.
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Depends what you consider a "win". For me a win is if i get a 0 or a a +1 pip out of a match, regardless if i escape or die.
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All it shows is that survivors can't loop for #########.
I did the 30s AFK + Perkless challenge on Myers and literally got a 2k on "the game" last night. How? Because the survivor were hot trash. That's the only reason.
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So if you are a good killer and you sweat you'll win most times with no perks? That's still very killer sided.
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Lol the game is survivor side if you want to win as a killer you always need your best addon and you need to play in a way that unfun.
People seem to forget that streamer like otz have more then 5k hour in the game and play this game as a job not an hobby.
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Incorrect. :P
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So Wima escaped as survivor 383 times in a row does that mean the game is extremely survivor sided?
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I think the opinion of guys like otz or other content creators is very very important especially if you talk about general game mechanics or broken stuff because these guys and girls are just a bit deeper in the game then the average joe but this also brings a problem with it. Otz opinion if the game is surv or killer sided doesn't matter because if I make my money with playing a game. And I spend a good chunk of my day with that game chances are high I am really good at that game sooner or later but the player base don't consist of players of this lvl so when I only play killer and destroy 80% of the survivors I face I could think the game is killer sided same goes the other way around. And by all gods don't come with git gud cause you can't expect the majority of the players to reach a lvl like Otz even remotely
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Where are you getting the idea that people are "realising this game is so killer sided"
Did you just wake from a fever dream?
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This sort of post is why people view the forums as a joke
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To be fair, it could also be an intentional attempt at baiting forum users.
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That's quite a heavy spin you're putting on both what Otz and Scott have said and shown.
Otz displayed that at high mmr things aren't a total death march for killers. What they didn't do is prove the game isn't leaning a bit heavier on survivor's side of the line currently. Scott has even spoke about this and proven the advantages and disadvantages for both sides multiple times.
You say there is little evidence when scott sits there and posts evidence on a regular basis. He also posts the receipts for killers are also over performing and has expressly stated that survivors are quite strong right now. Just because Otz was able to play Hag with no perks and still win consistently is more about his overall skill in the game more than the state of the game. If you had the same level of time investment and skill as Otz you could produce similar results. He plays the game very well, a fact that Scott was sure to point out, doesn't mean it isn't challenging or that the game is killer sided. It simply means it can be done and that things aren't quite as bad as what people say.
That doesn't mean it isn't bad at all or that the balance isn't borked because it is. Both of them has spent far too much time detailing their issues with the game balance for someone to sit there and spin a hyper biased narrative.
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No it's because people cry at every little thing.
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"Just because Otz was able to play Hag with no perks and still win consistently is more about his overall skill in the game more than the state of the game."
So essentially if you are good at the game and play a good killer you'll win more times than not. I don't get how people have a problem with the fact that you have to be good at the game to get consistent wins. It's almost like killers want every game handed to them like it is at every other MMR level.
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Some of the 7k hours survivors can pull off the same. Experience in this game is super important, as it is in most games. This alone proves nothing.
The problem at hand is hard to "prove", but I have bever before seen such an univocal voice, that mostly mirror the same problems that I myself experienced, ie that high level killer play is an often abysmal affair, were the killer is the survivors plaything and you get bullied a lot, as multiple second chance perks and healing meta neuter most of the danger you pose.
In order to win you have to sweat it and use all the scummy tactics that you don't want to, ie tunneling and camping; playing fair will lead to a miserable loss were you are nearly irrevocably laughed out of the gate and mocked in the endgame chat.
It's not a singular complaint, but a massive number, and the often snide and compassion less answer is "don't play so sweaty. Lol." or "if you stress so much, why play at all? Play something else."
But I really love the game, can't we try together to repair its state, so that most players can somehow enjoy it, without resorting to personal attacks, demeaning and belittling the others opinion?
I learned how bad tunneling of the hook feels like, from my limited survivor games, but it seems like killer complaints are often talked down, because you hear so many of them here. And its true, there is quite a number of killers who go to far with their anger. But still, this massive numbers stem from a shared experience, and that one ain't pretty.
You can still win, but you have to play in a way that's not fun for anyone and burning you out. And that can neither be healthy for the game, nor the goal of the design team.
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Yes, every person who claims that the game is killer sided is just baiting. Very original idea.
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Either that or they're not very good and I say that for anyone who says the game is survivor sided or killer sided, the game isn't that extreme balance wise.
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A lot of those survivors were really bad anyway
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It's just an SBMM failure. If this game had great matchmaking like league of legends you would never see these kinds of posts because good survivors can trivially loop 80% of the killer cast and you would never see perkless M1 killers getting anything beyond a 1k.
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Yeah too true, and they wouldn't hide MMR either.
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I don't think it's that extreme but you just can't deny that the average game is killer sided. Be it for balance reasons or not. Killers have an advantage especially against solo teams.
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It’s really convenient to ignore most of those survivors willingly suicided to a camper
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Rofl. 'Killer sided'. Riiiiight. That's why SWFs can bully Killers of equal skill; because the game is so Killer sided. 🙃
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Killers have an advantage against potatoes
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So in conclusion, we´ll have to expect some heavy killer nerfs, right?
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If you are good at the game, play a good killer then your chances of winning are better. That's a known fact that no one in their right mind disputes. What is disputed is whether that makes the game killer sided, which it does not. As even good players playing good killers still can find themselves struggling in a lot of situations. It is not about being handed wins, it is about the fact that currently the state of the game is pushing harder than a lot of players and killers can functionally handle. You clearly have a vested interest in pushing that agenda, which is your choice, but do not sit there and actively lie about the conclusions that other people have made.
You don't have to agree that the game is survivor sided in any way, shape, or form. I'm not gonna try and convince you of that as I have no desire to do so. You clearly watch Otz and Scott have come to a conclusion that suits you. Which funnily enough is something Scott also talked about in his most recent video that details Otz's video. How people come to arbitrary conclusions that suits their argument in a way that agrees with their established feelings.
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Otz's point: 'If killers run the strongest possible stuff they can into randos and also have 8000 hours in the game, they'll probably win'.
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It's not though? Your average killer player isn't otz, they're not going to be as good in chase or use their power perfectly or bring a bunch of gen slowdown meaning they're going to be making a lot more errors and not have a cushion for when they do. I feel like this is partly because you can have a really good meta build as a survivor without making any purchases while the meta perks for killer are spread out among a bunch of dlc killers so they're not going to be as good.
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...But the logic is backwards.
The game is still Purely Survivor sided. The survivors Otz had made Many mistakes.. didn't path correctly and such.
He also did tunnel and camp to get said kills at points during the games...
..so don't try to say the game is Killer sided when there is Alot more proof that the game is Still (and will be) Survivor Sided
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What proof?
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I couldnt agree more. 1 game I am playing against really good coordinated team. End up with hardly earned 3K.
And then for the rest of the night my SBMM is matching me with survivors who have aprox 100 hours in game. Firstly I thought okay…perhaps smurf accounts? Nope, legitly a players with such hours, who were then complaining in the end chat, how broken SBMM is. I still performed 4K just to raise my MMR believing I will go back into the “balanced” lobbies.
Same match the same, over and over against baby survivors. Running shadowborn and bbq without addons.
tldr; Does SBMM work? I think its in extremely horrible state, working on special events. Hidden MMR …I wonder what could be the reason :wink :wink
I rather get destroyed by SWF rather then being bored and ruining new comers matches
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I like OTZ a lot but why do people keep bringing him up in threads as if he’s the voice of the DBD community. Are we supposed to only listen to streamers??
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Yeah someone going all out while survivors mess around and die surely shows how the game is killer sided.
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Only if their current narrative fits your agenda for another Us vs Them post.
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The more I play, the less it feels like it matters what "side" the game is, anymore. What's it matter which side is stronger when I'm getting survivors who are brand new to the game in one match, I let them escape, and then in the next match I get survivors who are 10x above my own skill level? I couldn't give them an interesting challenging match if I cared enough to try, why did the game put me in their lobby?
This is an asymmetrical game with only five players in every match: it only takes ONE player being worse than the other four to ruin the match. One bad survivors tanks the entire team. If the killer is bad and the survivors are good, the entire match is a waste, the killer might as well go AFK. How do you balance the game for that? Seriously?
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...There is alot. Should i explain?
Let's talk the Meta for Example, So far Killers have had their meta changed about maybe... 7-8 times now? Whereas Survivor had maybe 3-4 time's it changed.
Ds took exactly 4-5 years to nerf, whereas ruin / pop both got changed / nerfed (mainly pop nerf) Waaay before Ds was considered to be changed,
The ds / unbreak combo is still the strongest survivor, combined with Dh and Bt, makes the gameplay alot more stressful to know that the killer Now has to try and bait a hit but can't if the survivor is using it to either A make it to the pallet or B Make it to the Window, Making it a hard loss either way,
Boons....Mainly CoH.. i dunno if i should even explain this bs perk,
Hit validation.. HOPEFULLY it's fixed completely...ish, but this has also been in said favor of survivors if they did it right against the killers that got forced into cd after hit,
Perks: So far killer perks.. alot of them has either been nerfed or reworked in some way. some good, some bad.. and plain bad in general.. So far More killer perks have been touched and. For a fair bit Yes, were Good reworks. But the others don't even come close to how it should be.. (Still kinda mad they nerfed Hoarder despite the fact it was never a good perk to begin with)
Whereas Survivor perks. has alot more goin' for them than ever, Lucky break got a good buff. was overbuffed in said ptb but fixed... still does wonders, Iron will Still hasn't been changed and is in need of said Nerf.. Dh also is in need of Nerf. But hasn't been touched along with the others per say,
How fast something gets Nerfed: Lemme break it down.. Killers have had stuff that was good for them nerfed or reworked / removed, let's take a perk for example like.. Maybe Old MoM, Perk was Busted beyond any other perk and it was the Best, if not the 100% Most Overpowered Perk that ever got leaked and Released in it's current State, Keep in mind you couldn't cheese any hits with MoM for killer, since it was always a basic attack. took 3 months to finally nerf it, Now let's take Remember me: A perk that used to make gates take alot longer to open than what it currently does right now, a full 50 seconds to a minute worth of opening a exit gate if the obsession was dead was Huge, Now it got nerfed to 34 seconds... Overshadowed by alot better perks in it's place and it's only use is to have a endgame build.. that's it.. MoM has seen more action than Remember me has, and that's sayin' something,
Still alot more stuff to prove that the game is survivor sided..
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At high MMR, unless you run Nurse or Blight, the survivors are OP. Even if you run Nurse or Blight, it can be a struggle. Sure it's killer sided at low MMR, but who cares about low MMR - everyone there is awful.
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It's not though? Your average killer player isn't otz, they're not going to be as good in chase or use their power perfectly or bring a bunch of gen slowdown meaning they're going to be making a lot more errors and not have a cushion for when they do. I feel like this is partly because you can have a really good meta build as a survivor without making any purchases while the meta perks for killer are spread out among a bunch of dlc killers so they're not going to be as good.
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THIS! You can claim that the system works great all you want, buy unless you give players access to their numbers and they can compare their e-peen, you will never get acceptance; especially when the system seems that busted and peeps get this kind of results.
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Holy #########.
Way to twist the ######### narrative.
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Every time someone use Otz or Dowsey or Tru or Ayrun or Zubat or JRM or (insert top-level content creator here) as an example that the game is killer or survivor sided, it's akin to pulling up footage of Tom Brady or Michael Jordan or Mike Trout or Wayne Gretzky and saying, "Look at them and see how easy it is for them to dominate? Playing football/basketball/baseball/hockey at the top levels must be ridiculously easy, right?".
Some of these people literally LIVE playing this game. That clearly doesn't represent the average experience of the average player who pops in a DBD match a couple of times a week.
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The game is actually pretty survivor sided, gen times are way to fast with people working on them by themselves, add a commodious toolbox with a bnp + socket swivels and lastly prove thyself, a gen can be done in like 25 seconds.
Killers have to make every second count, one slip up and it can cost them the game, also you have to take into account how skilled the survivors playing are, because they can be going against a good killer, but they as the survivor could be mediocre.
Don't even get me started on the new boil over that currently in the PTB, that'll just screw over killers on maps like Dead Dawg Saloon, Haddonfield, The Game, ect. There's so many factors that have to be taken into account, not just, "The killed survivors while giving a 30 second headstart and no perks, killer sided game." Because there's so many second chance perks I could name off the top of my head for survivors to use, and then NOED is the only one I can think of for killer which can be easily removed by destroying totems.
This is coming from someone with 1.5k hours in the game, about 1.4k of em playing survivor
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On Steam forums there are lots of posts like this, trying to get awards.
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Ok I decided to put up my Killer hat for a while when I played 10 straight games and only got a total of 6 Kills. I'm no where near a scrub Killer and before SBMM my average was 2-3K a game because I was matched with more accurate Survivors of my skill level unless I get that wierd match where I faced a SWF squad.
So i played Survivor for 10 games and died once.....and thatvwas due to my "team" leaving me on the hook and refused to recuse me.
All the other times thaks to CoH I never got downed and most matches I just dropped a pallet and fast slide over it to make so much noise I annoyed the killer to chase me allowing everyone to get gens done and escape......I shouldn't be able to mess around like that in front of the Killer and at most get a minor scratch......
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"Man who literally plays dbd for a living can beat casuals"...even otz gets stomped by comp teams
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game is killer sided if you only play nurse (recharge addons) or blight (ring+crow) - otherwise, killers usually get stomped on by swfs with map offerings. otz's "experiment" is not that good of a reference, the survivors he was up against were complete babies/messing around and i cringed hard watching it.
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"killers usually get stomped on by swfs with map offerings."
Where is your evidence for this? Is this just based on your experience?
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Are we not going to talk about how he did it. He had to do all the most scummy and unfun tactics each game. So yeah if you have 7k hours and camp to second stage slug tunnel and make the game as fun on both sides as possible its killer sided.
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