Remember old Undying? Sounds an awful lot like the way boons currently work.
Just wanted to remind everyone of what the devs said regarding the Undying nerf back in the Jan '21 Developer Update:
"We’ve been watching this one closely, and there’s a few things we’d like to address:
- Transferring the same Hex multiple times can get out of hand: Hexes are meant to be strong perks that can be destroyed, and having to destroy the same Hex four times can be a bit much."
This comparison is most relevant to CoH, as it is the most gamebreaking perk of the bunch.
But the devs obviously understood why the old Undying was a problem, and yet they are okay with 4 different people being able to keep blessing multiple totems infinitely so that everyone gets free medkits. Not to mention the time wasted trying to pointlessly snuff out a totem knowing it be back up in 20 seconds, on multiple floors.
After the last Q&A I don't expect the devs to tone down CoH any more than what they already announced, so I just hope they realize CoH is killing the game before it's too late.
Comments
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"bUt kIlleRs cAn eASy dEsTroY iT aNd hExeS aRe mOrE pOWeRfuLl thAN bOoNs dUdE..."
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Honestly old Undying was an issue because solo queue and nothing more 🏃 boons are mostly fine as a mechanic, could do with some slight tweaks like a cooldown before you can re-light a totem but outside of that I don't think they really need a change.
And then there's COH, which needs to be nuked.
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Boons aren't a problem like at all even if the mechanic was never changed they would be fine.
Circle of healing is a problem tho. not boons in general
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Boons have a limited range and have effects that aren't near as strong as the hex that was usually paired with Undying (that being ruin).
They aren't comparable, at all.
That doesn't mean I think CoH is fine, I just don't like the comparison.
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Boons are fine, CoH is not
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the problem about boons aren't their effects imo, but the fact that they can be spammed... i would gladly revert the CoH nerf, in return boons can be used only once during the trial... Add also the fact that they should be "divided" from each other (you have 2 boon perks? 2 totems are required instead of a single one with both effects). those perks should be high risks=high rewards
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You know what survivors need? Undying, but for boons. If the killer snuffs out a totem it should respawn somewhere else.
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I dislike the thought train that led to Boons.
Killers don't need more to do.
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If boons aren't as powerful or stronger then hexes the how come when boons came out hex builds pretty much fell off the map?
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As a killer I have absolutely no problems which how CoH works and it is rarely a challenge to face survivors that use it, and I don't mind the times it is a challenge. Every match should not be an easy match.
Some of you other killers sure complain a lot about those evil survivors that makes your life miserable, how the turntables.
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At least old undying had the chance to be broken on the first try.
Boons; boons never end.
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What I like even less was them trying to paint boons as helping the killer by giving the survivors more to do when in reality it was the opposite.
Boons as an idea are just rotten to the core as they have more or less have caused more of the same issues they were meant to fix.
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Just leaving this here. For those that can´t find the quote.
Because obviously, cleansing a hex 4 times is to much for 4 survivors. Meanwhile a single killer, that is on the pressured side of the game will have to find time to continuosly cleanse boons.
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Two reasons
1. Hexes are either great or awful. It's why the usual four you'll see now are Ruin, Undying, Devour Hope and Noed. Even before boons, you would only really see these four.
2. Boons aren't that great other than CoH. CoH itself does need a nerf according to most, but the other two that are in game right now aren't used often if at all, and for good reason as they're not that good. And the new one in the PTB won't be used much either.
In other words, this isn't a boon strength problem, or a hex weakness problem, it's a coh strength problem.
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Do you have data to back this up
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What I think should be reconsidered about boons is giving all of them the same parameters.
Exponential can do with a bigger radius, while CoH should have a smaller one, for example. Stacking multiple boon perks should just set the radius to the smallest one among the perks equipped, as another limiting factor.
Bless time could also be taken into consideration, with some perks taking longer to bless into a totem than others.
A flat, rigid '14 seconds/24 meters' restricts design space and I don't think there's a good reason for that.
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Seems like most people agree boons are OK. Circle of healing is busted. Wonder if there is a reason for that devs?
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I do think the devs realise that it's strong and needs to be nerfed, but also don't want to completely gut the perk as it's a fresh change to the meta, so from seeing it get nerfed a tad bit recently, if I had to take a guess it'll receive further changes soon. They're just taking it in small steps.
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It didn't really change the meta though. Everyone still runs the same 1v1 chase perks and one just subs in a COH for uber team healing.
All it did was invalidate hit and run playstyle thus upping the value of tunneling and camping further, two strats that people bemoan constantly.
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Old undying took 14 seconds for each totem to cleanse without taking into account the time to actually find the totems, and was purely rng. It also revealed auras of people on hex totems too, giving insane advantage to mobile killers. Snuffing a boon takes 1 second while it takes 14 to set it back up, other than having to go back to the totem again.
If you go out of your way to snuff a totem that's your problem, that's not how you're supposed to counter them.
So no, there's nothing to compare about the two mechanics. Old undying was utterly broken. We can talk about how COH is, but not about boons in general
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Actually, then boons and hexes should work similar. Start the game with 10 dull totems, and killer and survivors can bless them. But it takes the killer the same 16 seconds per totem that it does the survivors, and survivors can destroy a hex as fast as the killer can. Yes, there are 4 surviors, but killer hexes are mostly stronger than boon perks.
Why do you think the boons should be devided? Most people run only coh anyway, and dividing them only leads to the few people running more than one boon perk stopping it. But every boon perk beyond coh is one less of the ds/bt/dh meta, why would you encourage people playing more meta?
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We have taken your feedback and we decided to give that back,except for survivors :) have a nice day.
That perk should not exist.
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And that's still a change in the meta if it changes the way people play.
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Boons have broken this game.
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Undying, fairly got nerfed pretty damn quickly because it made the survivor experience miserable.
Circle of Healing, takes a couple of months to receive a "nerf" and remains a main contention to killer misery and is still a problem.
Just one example of how the developers don't actually care for the killers experience. If they did, COH would've been nuked as fast as Undying.
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Circle of Healing has broken this game, not the other boons.
2/3 of the roster are now practically helpless against COH. The only killers who can deal with COH are Blight, Nurse, one-shot killers and Plague.
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The difference being that while survivors were finding all four totems (in different spots, mind you), the effects of the very strong Hex perk that's associated with them is still active and the killer is unaffected, able to continue chasing and pressuring.
Compare to boons. Hell, compare to the actual problem, CoH- usually relit in the same spot, and inactive once snuffed. It's not a constant map-wide healing boost for the entire match, it's intermittent location-specific healing boosts that requires a survivor go out of their way to relight it.
Is that balanced? Absolutely not, CoH is a monster and it needs a proper rework. Is it comparable to old Undying? No, not even close.
I've noticed that people are really bad at separating the boon mechanic from CoH in specific. Boons aren't completely fine, there are some problems, but they are not synonymous with the gigantic problem of CoH- and no change to boons as a mechanic are going to do the job of fixing CoH, either, it has to be a change that affects the perk itself since it already breaks the intended design of boons to begin with.
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Old undying is nothing compared to boons, and boons aren’t that useful anyway.
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That has nothing to do with Boons in general but simply that they’re perks which entice survivors to go find and interact with totems. The more survivor perks there are which require survivors to find and use totems the more likely it is they’ll find hex totems. You could entirely replace Boons with Inner Strength style perks that give the team a boost when you cleanse a totem and it would still mean Hexes would be found because survivors are looking for totems for example.
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This arguement falls flat when you realise that, unless the wiki is incorrect, Undying lasted a month longer than CoH in its strongest stage, with Undyings introduction being in Mid September and being nerfed early February, while CoH was introduced in October and nerfed late January.
Also saying Undying was nuked is a huge overstatement.
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SiGh 😮💨
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I’m getting tired of hearing that “Boons are broken” when the only actually overpowered Boon is Circle of Healing. The consensus on the other three is they’re fine (including so far the one on the PTB). It’s not the Boon system that’s a problem, it’s that one specific healing Boon. Which they did nerf, by the way, so they’re obviously still monitoring it and if the data shows it’s still too good it could get nerfed again.
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They can nerf COH again if they want, but I don’t wanna hear killers complain how the survivor meta doesn’t change.
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I’ve never complained one way or another about metas.
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Not talking about you personally but a lot of killers do.
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Well there’s always people complaining about everything, it’s the internet after all. 🤷♂️
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I like to imagine the devs as Drew Barrymore in 50 first dates.
They have no consistency due to not remembering the day before.
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Except undying got a real nerf, and COHs nerf isnt even noticable
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Nah Undying was nuked into oblivion. How often do you really see it these days? I only see it when I play against Blight. Meanwhile the COH "nerf" only added a couple seconds extra. So yes technically it was a nerf but it didn't change the new meta.
Boons need either tokens so survivors don't have unlimited blessings and/or killers should have an option to bust the totem so it can be reused.
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boons are not strong in general, COH is the only decent perk.
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Yeah, the new one and exponential aren't super impressive. Personally i like shadow step over coh. But that's mainly b/c my playstyle. I agree coh is much stronger since it compliments the shift w playstyle so well
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Could you elaborate on why a token system or breaking totems would be a fair nerf for the other three boon perks, and how it'd actually fix the problem of CoH?
From my view, it wouldn't be fair and it wouldn't fix the problem, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
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I will agree with that, although the point of my reply never was if the CoH nerf was enough or not. It's the fact that the other person phrased it as if Undying was nerfed instantly while CoH took ages to receive a change.
Haven't played in a month, but back when I did play I still saw it in most of the survivor matches I played, and when I played killer it had become a common perk for me to use when playing with certain killers along with great success.
CoH does need another nerf however without a doubt. Personally I'd prefer it to have that 100% speed boost to healing (maybe even more although that could definitely be broken) but remove the ability to heal yourself with it. Possibly a range reduction along with it, which could work interestingly with other boons.
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the speed boost or the self healing is fine. but not both. i generally feel the same about all the boons. They each add 2 perks to other survivors. shadow step provides zero scratch marks AND aura hidden from the killer, exponential speeds up recovery and gives you unlimited pickup. b/c boons add the extra perks to the team, each boon should be split into two. But i know it's too late and i doubt the devs will make this change. so i'd rather just see them give the killer an option to break boon totems.
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Well, once there is a boon totem that lets you insta-down a killer when the exit gates or powered, or a boon totem that lets you insta-down a killer after 3 gens or done or a boon totem that makes all gens to start progressing until it's destroyed, then you may have a point.
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Undying got nuked within a few months as killers are never allowed to have anything good. The only part of it that I found op was the aura reading on hex totems. Boons in general are ok it’s just circle of healing that’s an abomination.
Post edited by Yippiekiyah on0 -
Can we change it in a way that doesn’t make the other side miserable?
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Your right in theory but your wrong at same time. Back when Old Undying was a thing I was exclusively killer only (Did not play ANY survivor) and it was a bit ridiculous. There was trials were they would have to cleanse every bone to be able to get rid of a hex which in turn lost them the game anyhow. Wins didn't feel like wins....kind of like now survivor wins don't always feel like wins because it was too easy perks/totems did most of the work.
Boons are not as powerful as Old Undying....CoH is strong even after the nerf but not as powerful as Old Undying. Boons are easy to track and once you snuff it usually is put right back in that same spot.
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Idk why people are so insistent on keeping the unhealthy mechanic of boons being infinitely relightable just because currently only coh is a problem.
The fact that boons can be reapplied is why weaker boons cannot be buffed and why coh will remain a problem until it's useless. You can't just give survivors teamwide perks with no real counterplay and call it fine.
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old undying won you games and was seen in tournaments. boons are just a meme
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