Bring the 5 second stun back to DS.
Too many killers are just eating the Endurance and the DS stun because there is no real punishment for doing so. 3 seconds isn't enough to make killers respect it. It makes for terrible gameplay and ruins the game all together. I am mainly a killer player and I find this to be boring to do and unfun for myself as well. I think DS deactivating at endgame is fair enough. It is legit open season on the scummy gameplay with how easy it is to tunnel with this change.
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DS stun time never should have been 5s, it was like that because of Enduring (killer perk) and than Enduring got nerfed to only effect pallets, and Nurse is also the reason why it got buffed to 5s.
2 reasons why I think the 5s stun shouldn't come back.
1. You bring back the 5s and you might as well undo 6.0 update and the game might as well be boring with a stale meta.
2. I don't like talking about this because the community is too far gone, but the game is 4v1 and not 1v1. Killers shouldn't fear a perk. They should fear survivors working together.
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Yes the DS stun was changed because of Enduring but it should still be 5 seconds especially with the many powers that just make 3 (actually 2) seconds of ds worthless
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Yea 3 seconds isn’t enough. It’s bad enough that it doesn’t work during endgame. On that same note, Head On also needs to be buffed to 5 seconds, but balanced with a longer cooldown.
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Further proof of what I said! The community is too far gone in the mindset of 1v1 and not 4v1.
Killers power doesn't matter. You wanna prevent tunneling? Help your teammate out. Take a hit for them, take a chance of getting slugged/hooked for them, instead of asking for 1 perk to give you more breathing space.
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Definetely needs to be reverted to 5 seconds. Idk why they nerfed the stun. Its like literally the only other anti tunnel perk.
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I totally get a killer shouldn't fear a perk. I totally think the endgame disabling the perk was enough. How does one change erase a whole patch? I am just curious because it wouldn't make much of a difference except actually punish the killer for tunneling viscously.
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Thats because solo queue is 1v1. Hence the perk is very neccessary until they actually bother making changes to solo queue to help balance them with killers. No one takes hits let alone hooks for you. You get left on hook and left to die by being tunneled to death. DS is extrememly counterable with the powered exit gate change, 5 second stun won't kill you, and you could just not tunnel and you'll be fine.
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It's fine where it's at. You buff it any way it becomes auto have on high mmr. That happens your gonna wait 60sec on the ground. And if your waiting your gonna start taking unbreakable every game again. And we are right back where we started.
To be blunt I don't care about the stun nearly as much as endgame nerf. Having ds once gates were open might as well been an auto escape. And there are far more important things that need addressed than ds for game balance
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Because than you'll be bringing back aggressive survivor gameplay. That teammate(s) that don't do gens because they'd rather be in chase and if they don't get the attention they want they spam notifications to the killer.
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I'm a solo q player because I find swf makes the role even more boring.
The things I said in this message, I do, and still look at the game as 1v4. Idc if I get camped or tunnelled out, because I'm contributing to the TEAM and not MYSELF!
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You find it boring to be able to pick up and secure a hook over slugging to avoid a stun? That is believable. Well, as a survivor main, I have fun getting straight back into the chase for 3 seconds and it would be boring if they lost me because of the 5 second stun.
No. It should stay during end game and give me a free escape because that IS fun. You can trust my opinion because I am actually a killer main. I was lying at first. I love when a survivor can force a free escape, it is not fair that they can't do that.
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I don't know how or why that dismisses the idea of ds being back to 5 seconds, it's 2 additional seconds. Not a big deal, it'll just make the perk actually useful rather than useless.
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Three seconds is a joke. Even M1 killers laugh it off.
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The threat of DS used to be enough to lessen tunneling. Now no one is running it, so Killers have nothing to fear. It should be at least 4 if not 5 seconds. The endgame nerf was all that was needed.
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Exactly why I don't talk about it.
"2 extra seconds. Not that big of a deal" that gives the survivor enough time to get somewhere safe so that they can 1v1.
1v1 should not be a thing in a 4v1 game.
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But when a survivor is being chased thats a 1v1. 4v1 is all the survivors working towards escaping, so people doing gens and unhooking etc. Its not a 10 second stun, its 5 seconds that, yes, allows the survivor to get somewhere more safe, but that only happens if you tunnel them and 3 seconds just does nothing, the killer instantly catches up and you're dead again, especially against blight, wesker or nurse.
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Agreed.
The 3 second stun just isn't enough in the current state of the game.
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That doesnt happen in solo que in swfs sure
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You are delusional if you think that asking for a reasonable amount of time to get away from someone who didn’t have to do anything in the first place, but stand there and act like they did something amazing to gain that pressure is a lot.
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Okay.
1. Reframe from insulting me
2. Why should survivors get that time, especially now that survivors get multiple second chance, and a teammate could help pull agro off the survivor?
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I’m not insulting you but I think you would have to live in some imaginary land to believe that 3 seconds is actually worth a perk slot. 5 seconds wasn’t doing much to begin with.
Also, please list which “second chance” perks survivors have to counter a killer who is going to tunnel the one survivor immediately off hook. Other than OTR and BT which at this point are the only go to perks actually worth it.
The game isn’t about making sure that survivor stays alive for as long as possible, the other survivors should not be wasting their time trying to take aggro off of someone who is clearly a target. You think the killer can’t just bypass each survivor without hitting them? I’ve literally seen killers down survivors and leave them on the floor and continuing to go for that one person.
The question isn’t should that survivor stay protected for the whole match? No, they shouldn’t but it also shouldn’t mean that a killer can simply cheese a playstyle because there is currently nothing in game that discourages them from doing it.
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DS should maybe not have been buffed to 5 seconds when it was, but it got nerfed really harshly afterwards, at which point it deserved to be 5 seconds.
The 6.0 update was waaaaay more than just the DS change, and 'stale meta' is an asinine reason to keep a perk in an unplayable state. DS was objectively not very powerful, either, considering how unlikely it was to fire. With the EGC nerf, it's become even less likely to fire, so it's more deserving of that 5 second stun than it ever was. Hell, it could go up to 7 seconds and still be fair.
Killers should fear a perk if they work really hard to make that perk fire. DS requires the killer to hunt and down a survivor who has been unhooked in the last 60 seconds before they can do anything to aid their team, and then pick them up. That is a triple whammy of killer input that is required to get this perk to play out, and especially the last condition is so blatantly in the killer's control that any competent killer is not going to get hit by DS.
If you do literally everything wrong and make this perk fire, you should be punished for it proportional to how badly you screwed up, and DS requires a pretty monumental screw-up.
Honestly, 5 second stun DS should be baseline, and the perk DS should disable the killer's active powers for 10 seconds after the stun ends as an extra 'up yours' to Nurse and Blight. And hey, if you make DS baseline, the perk itself likely won't be picked as much, so you don't have to worry about a 'stale meta'!
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Agreed. At the very least make the actual useful stun duration (the time not lost to the getting-off-the-killers-shoulder animation) 3 seconds, which would actually require the advertised stun time to be over 4 seconds.
And the "it's should've been like this since forever ago because enduring" take is just plain silly. DS didn't even have deactivation conditions back then, and didn't disable in EGC.
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It will nerf bad killers and do nothing against strong killers.
First of all, you should fear the killer, not the other way around.
Eating a DS is not a « monumental screw-up ». The killer has no clue if the survivor has DS or not.
This version of DS would be S tier tier, above everything else. 7s DS, disabling killers powers, if you don’t play it you are throwing.
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Tbh i dont use it after the nerf .with 3 sec u cant do anything ,even thou im getting tunneled and camped
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It should've always been 5 seconds regardless of Enduring. (And Enduring should've never countered it, either.)
DS being disabled in endgame is totally fair and they shouldn't bring that back. But at 3 seconds, the perk is really just not that good and isn't enough of a deterrent for killers not to tunnel. Endurance only goes so far, and is also weaker than it used to be since killers have a shorter m1 cooldown now.
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The killer can disable the entire perk by not hitting spacebar on a survivor that was unhooked in the last 60 seconds.
All it takes is not pressing a button to reduce the perk's value to zero.
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So you want the perk to be so meta that all the killers have to play as if all the survivors have it.
This remind me of old dead hard, when survivors had 15min+ queue despite needing only 1 player willing to play killer (vs 4 survivor, do the maths). Good days.
The only thing BHVR can do to please you and keep queue time decent for everyone is to introduce bots killers who don’t ever camp / tunnel.
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I mean... I literally said that DS should be baseline, so I don't know why that's a big leap.
And yes. Because otherwise tunnelling is a really overpowered strategy that any killer can employ at any time without any investment. Halved chases, early cuts in survivor potential, the game's only reasons not to tunnel are DS and OTR. So when DS is a perk that barely hinders the killer, it doesn't do its job and in fact can even make that job easier, considering other perks (Lithe, Quick & Quiet, Fixated) could actually make the chase itself harder.
Again, literally all you have to do is either not chase a survivor that was just unhooked, or not pick them up.
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Don't crutch to sling yourself up to an MMR bracket where you're not competent enough to get a win the normal way and you won't have to keep relying on your crutches.
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Let’s pretend you are the killer, on coldwind farm.
- All the remaining gens are close to the hook, except one far away, at the opposite side of the map.
- You know all the remaining survivors are on that gen far away, not worth defending (you saw them with BBQ).
- The survivor hooked use deliverance, you chase him and down him again.
Now what are you supposed to do according to you ?
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This. In solo queue, when the killer isnt around me I have no idea where he is or who he is chasing (until someone gets injured that is). It's not like being in a swf on comms where they're like 'I'm being chased around shack, someone take a hit or I'm going down'. Swfs are 4v1. I'd say solo is more like 1v1v1v1v1. If I see someone being chased near me I absolutely take a hit, I don't even hesitate. But I don't care if I die. Many solo players do care and want to reach the end. You have a mixed team who may all want different things out of a game (escape, bloodpoints, a pip, a daily done, a tome challenge done, etc). Sometimes you can only rely on yourself.
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No, Head-On shall remain the same, while Decisive Strike shall be buffed.
You're not meant to stun the killer for a long time with Head-On, but to give some sort of a headstart to the chased survivor, or to force the killer to drop the carried survivor. The perk on its own alone doesn't serve any other purpose, so I see no reason as to why we shall make it even more purposeful perk. It's already one of the most used perks in SWF premades as it is, and it's really unfun to face.. Not to mention the forced locked animation during locker grabs to force an easy flashlight saves.. Yuck!
The Decisive Strike, however, shall stay disabled during the EGC.
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DS should obviously go back to 5 seconds. And probably receive further Buffs, as long as it is deactivated by progressing the game by any means and deactivated in Endgame.
All current Anti-Tunneling resolves around Endurance. And it does not matter if it is just the base Endurance, or if you have OTR on top or if the Survivor who unhooked you had BT. They are all gone after one hit and the Killer will 100% be safe to pick you up, because even if you have DS (most people dont run it anymore since it is pointless with only 1,7 seconds of distance), it is laughable.
OR we do something more crazy and go for a stuntime which is higher at the beginning of the game but becomes lower during the end. E.g. something like Number of Gens remainingx2.
So a DS-Stun at the begin of the match would be 10 seconds, at the end with 1 Gen remaining, it would be 2 seconds. (And deactivated when all Gens are done, since 0x2 is 0) Personally, I would prefer the 5 seconds...
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Go for the person that he unhooked to get his deliverance up, pressure that one. Or sit on the one you just downed and wait for the 60 second timer before slapping them back on the hook. You have options, bud.
EDIT: Also, do you know how conditional this entire thing is? Should the survivor just get zero value from two perk slots and a ton of prep work because you feel slighted?
I have used DH in two matches, and never used DS or OTR.
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So your options for the killer are :
- throw the match by leaving the area and destroying your 3-4 gen, allowing anyone to get in the area and remove all your pressure. So much value for a single perk.
- slug the survivor and camp the body
What a fun and interesting gameplay. By the way, by going for the person he got deliverance from, do you want the killer to tunnel him or not ? Because going for the same survivor is tunneling right ?
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Basekit BT should not active end game, OR remove collision if survivors have Endurance effect.
DS should be disable if healed, and go back to 5sec.
Done
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Now you're being wilfully obtuse. If that guy got deliverance and triggered it, that means you split your hooks between the two of them. You know that's not tunnelling.
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I agree it should be 5 seconds again. I recently got DSed by a survivor, and as Pyramid Head I quite quickly got the down thereafter.
The fact it no longer activates after the last gen is fixed is more than enough of a nerf for me.
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It's fine if you get downed in a good place, lead the chase there. Skill issue.
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Please no.
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I honestly think 5s DS would be too much when stacked with Off The Record.
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git good
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Exactly! Well said.
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OTR is useless against actual tunneling when you get hit straight off the hook, it's the same than having nothing with basekit BT, old DS was at least a bit of an inconvenience but now tunneling is free
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And how exactly you will do in solo-q.
"Just play SWF 4head".
It is not surprise why i have very bad killer queues. BHVR should stop listen people like you, tunnelling needs to be nerfed. 5 seconds DS will do it.
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It's funny its ever only the killers who crutch themselve up or should play in certain ways to do make it fair lol.
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Or start the 3 seconds at the same time the survivor can begin moving, not before.
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If the "counter" to tunneling wasn't a band-aid perk to begin with, then there would be no issue of it being META perk or not.
How many perk slots does the killer need to give up to tunnel?
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Please. DS is so outclassed by OTR right now it's not even funny. One-time use for a 3s stun that you can miss by the game stuttering when you get the skillcheck? And the killers who are best at tunneling are also the best at ignoring a 3-second stun and jumping right back on you.
There's no reason to respect DS or even the possibility of DS anymore. It's so weak.
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