SWF comms balance is easy to do but it isn't being done
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SWF could be very easily adjusted. Add new rule : No character, perk, item or offering may be repeated in a SWF. Add new inferface to show non repeated perks over each SWF member's head in blue. Add new interface to show repeated perks over a SWF member's head in red.
Now you can see what your allies are using in the lobby. You can't be a bully SWF squad using the same item/perk combo. You can't trick the killer by all looking the same. You can still play with your friends and you get to see their perks before the game.
Note: loadouts would be locked when you hit ready up inside the SWF group to queue for a lobby.
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But that’s exactly the problem, you want to change (=buff) killers once there is voice comms which is bringing survivors not using voice for whatever valid reason at a bigger disadvantage.
if it was ever brought in as a feature it has to be optional and the game shouldn’t be balanced around it.
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Of course survivors are at a disadvantage without comms, however the current balance is made with the assumption that survivors are not on comms
If you add basekit comms into the mix though, the game has to be balanced with the assumption that all four survivors are on comms
Thus, just implementing comms without doing anything to address the problems that would prevent survivors being able to use comms at all (Language barrier, toxicity, no mics, etc.) or use comms effectively (Try SWFing with someone with 50 hours and tell them "killer is 7", see how far that gets you) means that now Solo Queue again gets the short end of the stick since the game would no longer be balanced with the assumption of no comms
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Yes, and also although the game would be balanced as if all 4 survivors are on comms VHS, from when I played it, showed that 90% of the voice chat is a detriment. Pings and status icons were benefits. Voice chat only works consistently when there is an organized group (SWF or a guild in MMOs) behind it.
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Especially at bleeding edge ELO in DbD. Bad comms vs good comms make or break survivors at the competitive level against that level of killer player (to use an extreme example). Players often frame the discussion around the assumption of absolute average killer play vs good survivors with added comms. Rarely does the discussion take into account high level killer play vs average/good survivors, or elite vs elite on both sides. You have to be able to manage hook states, spacing, and chase location against a great killer player with a stacked loadout. And it's just not good game design in my opinion to say "Well, since you're solo, you're going to be short 3 or 4 perks just to have any sort of information. Sucks to suck."
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Exactly. Which is why I have never understood the notion that Allowing QoL changes to Solo Queue= Buffing. When in reality Solo queue being at a disadvantage doesn’t mean they need to be buffed nor that SWF is somehow OP. It just means that solo has become a half way baked idea without necessary features to play the game.
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Allowing them to speak only adds to SWF… you literally increase the bullying by a ten fold now..
as someone that has done game balancing I can say this would 100% make things far much worse.
swf a discording or using a third party to communicate as it is. All you would be doing is adding solos into swfs…
then you gotta buff the killer to be almost unbeatable. Would have to be no more 3 hooks, no more 2 hits, every perk to take a extra hit would have to be gone, or remove any type of healing.
It sounds good to stop but it actually becomes a balancing nightmare.
best way I can think of would add .2ms to the killer for each survivor in a party and reduce the penalty for swing misses slightly, then go from there. It makes the killer slowly buffed per party member. But that is also a nightmare in itself
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How do you figure it would be a nightmare when SWF isn’t a nightmare to go against atm? And I’m not talking about High MMR which the majority of the DBD population isn’t even there.
Also, bullying will happen regardless. It happens now in text chat and I don’t think they should stop from introducing a necessary feature because a handful of babies can’t keep their comments to themselves.
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DBD is already being balanced with voice comms in mind, or do you really think solo queue is balanced?
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The Devs have routinely stated they don't want to punish people who play with friends, which is a fair stance. But the sheer advantage even a sub par SWF brings against a Killer is something that shouldn't be ignored. The best solution is simple.
Tell Killers they are against a SWF. Have a little symbol that shows the Killer what they are about to get.
bUT tHAn N0 1 W1lL V3rS3 TheM
1) Plenty of people on these forums state they don't mind SWFs, so they'll find games.
2) Thats when you give Killers that BP incentive. 25% extra against the duo, 50% the trip, 100% the quad. Oh no, Killer gets more BP, we all know how rare THAT is.
3) And even IF SWFs suddenly no longer get games, maybe that shows how little people feel like dealing with them? So maybe Devs SHOULD look at ways to deal with SWFs
Honestly, just do a PTB and see what happens. Or use that "live" feature and see what happens.
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If every of the 4 survs do their part, yes it would be pretty well actually. So you think coordinated swf with voice comms is balanced?
problem is, you will never get that in soloq - that’s why action indicators are way more important than voice comms.
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The only people who don’t want voice chat in solo are bad killers who like to stomp these poor survivors.
Every other MP game has voice chat, so if you’re against it mute it or go play single player games. Period.
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how you use information as survivor is huge for survivor when your playing against a strong killer player. I do not think the game needs voice coms because of language barrier. but I think global aura reading on teammate is sufficient to bridge the gap between soloq and swf. its so easy to implement. the longer part is reworking perks there were once based off information to do something less. a lot of aura-type perk have secondary effect. For example blood pact has haste effect. Better together has aura reading on the killer. Emphatic connection has healing speed. kindred has wallhacks on the killer. Maybe bond/empathy and aftercare could be rework into giving a small amount of wall-hack when the killer begins a chase for like 3-4 seconds. for example empathy would grant aura reading on the killer when the killer chases an injured survivor, bond would grant aura reading when two people are in the chase at the same time and aftercare grants aura reading when a survivor affected by aftercare starts a chase with the killer for first 3-4 seconds.
All those aura perk could just be reworked to be minor killer wall-hack perks. that trigger in specific situations. Hopefully one day, dbd does bridge soloq and swf gap at higher-level(15% difference problem).
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What are you talking about ? They're a lot of MP game without voice chat... By design or only because the game don't need it ( for example FFXIV developer don't want to add voice chat to not divide the community ). I don't even know how someone can seriously said that EVERY MP game had voice chat. Monster Hunter a game where MP are a big part of the experience don't had voice chat, Among Us don't had voice chat, .. Seriously I just don't want voice chat on this game : I don't want to hear tryharder survivor and I don't want that those tryharder don't rescue me from the hook because I don't use my microphone.
I don't even see scneario where the dev could think that voice chat are a good thing for this game.
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Oh my god, there's actually someone on here that is speaking some sense! Completely agree with you and have said the same before.
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Yes, the game is balanced around coordination. Playing as and against SWF is the only way DBD actually feels balanced. Solo queue is basically a game mode to compete for hatch and playing killer against solos just means an easy 4k recently.
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Currently the game isn't balanced around voice communication. Being without voice comms is the baseline, it's not a disadvantage. Having voice comms is an extra advantage.
If having voice communication were baseline, then killers would need to be massively buffed, which the expectation that if everyone used voice comms then the survivors would be on equal footing with the killer. At this point, not having voice comms would be a disadvantage.
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plz no. id rather have harder games then hear my teammates yell at me all game.
atleast make it an option
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Adding Solo Queue voice chat would be one of the worst decisions, if not the worst.
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"I'm just playing with my friends, so I shouldn't be punished."
I keep hearing this as the reason why nothing is done about SWF.
So, is SWF at all beneficial compared to solo? No. It is not.
Just because a survivor is SWF, they are getting a tremendous information advantage that they cannot get just in-game. This is because of voice chat.
A survivor is getting a tremendous advantage in out-of-game features, is this a problem because I am just playing with friends?
The killer is being punished because the opponent is just playing with a friend.
All of the SWF mains who claim to be "just playing with friends" always talk only about chit chat and never talk about where the killer is, what perk they are using, which generator is at 90%, which totem is burning, etc.?
There is no way to know that.
DbD policy acknowledges that there is a difference between solo and SWF as a premise. I have already written about that.
Punishing SWF with in-game features makes it impossible to adjust, since they say "just play with friends" and voice chat takes place outside of the game.
Therefore, we decided to build a balance between killer and survivor by making solo as good as SWF, a hard resource thanks to SWF.
So is in-game voice chat a good thing?
No. We have not had any in-game voice chat.
It is true for the reasons that have been discussed a lot in this discussion.
Let me point out one point. The idea was that if people don't want to have voice chat, they can just mute it. So what does that bring? If you mute it, it is no different than soloing, assuming that the in-game voice chat brings soloing closer to SWF. And a malicious playerbase will start attacking the muted player.
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And then all the "GIVE ME COMMS" threads turn into "DEVS, FORCE PLAYERS TO USE COMMS! IT'S NOT FAIR THAT MY TEAM IS HANDICAPPED BECAUSE SOMEONE DISABLED VOICE!" No thanks. If you force in voice, it won't be optional and people will get griefed or treated like crap if they don't want to listen to 14 year olds scream. I'm not interested in being told I am breaking some made up rule by not using voice.
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He can decide if he thinks it's cheating. Very little you can do about it.
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It wouldn't work - unless you have Blizzard money to spend, it's not going to be possible to moderate. And unmoderated voicechat in a PvP game is never a good idea.
The last time I played a game with unmoderated voicechat, one person was reading Mein Kampf, one person was playing an air-horn at random intervals, one person was yelling incoherently and one person was about 10.
The language barriers are the least of the problems here.
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Wait custom match grants BP now? Last I played it you didn't get any
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Of course they can think it. They can think the earth is flat as well.
but that doesn’t make it true at all and spreading it as it was real information is the problem. Especially on the official forums. Otherwise people might even start to create reports for it etc.
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There is VC in OW. U think all 6 (5) players use it? Usually 2-3 people on comms. Also, people say nasty things. I used to play on US servers during EU nighttime and its just horrible.
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They don’t. I was just throwing out ideas
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That sounds like a weird coincidence. You won´t see that kind of group very often. Also, you could just mute the others. Like other games do.
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If you don't want to hear someone you can MUTE them. Nothing changes for you. You're creating a niche scenario where a bad thing will happen and you'll forget it in no time.
It's time to accept this game has become competitive and even the devs seem to support it. Stop creating excuses for it.
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Well thats that sorted, all we need is for BHVR to pull their finger out and actually bring balance to the game instead of messing around with perks to bring 'balance'.
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Then you get the HOTS/LoL problem, where 30% of people just mute everyone at all times and, as nobody knows they are muted, it falls apart.
Voicechat wouldn't work here.
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This has been covered already, you mute them and your team becomes weaker but that is a choice each player should be able to do.
If you don't offer them the chance then how do you balance a game when people have a current unfair advantage using communications over those that do not.
It is about choice and of course choice would work here, unless you think choice is a bad thing?
That is insulting to BHVR to whether they could introduce communications into a game that many other have, especially when BHVR are welcoming communications yet not providing them! Makes no sense for balance
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having some form of communication between survivors in game would be great
some people think this will imbalance the game but my counterargument to that is play any MMO like WOW or FF14 and see how far communication between randoms gets you
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