Survivors Should Care About Killer's Fun
I see a lot of survivor players expecting the killer side to care about their fun - i.e. not tunnelling, not slugging, not camping, not sweating etc.
But what about survivors caring about KILLER'S fun? I've compiled a list of things survivors can do to increase the other side's fun - this way both sides can have fun, and that's the main goal, right?
Survivor Things to Do for Killer's Fun:
- Chill out with the gens - if you see 2-3 gens popping very early, chill out. Go do a totem or open a chest. You don't want the game to end prematurely. It would be equivalent to tunnelling a person out very early in the game.
- Chill out with SWF communication - if you're in a Discord voice call with your buddies, don't call out information that would not be available to you had you played solo. Immerse yourself more in the game and make the game fair and fun for BOTH sides.
- Don't tunnel gens - very simple. If a killer downs a survivor near 99 % completed gen, don't go to gen to complete it while the killer is going to hook someone. Leave the gen, and come back to it later. The killer put pressure, he deserves that gen being left alone. And if you tunnel that gen, this is equivalent to camping a survivor in the last seconds to get the 2nd/the 3rd stage on a survivor.
- Don't hold W too much. Survivor holding W is an extremely unfun thing for a killer - there is 0 interaction and very little counterplay. Chill out with the W button, and go for a loop. In the end, that's what both sides want, correct? Chases, mind games and fun for both sides
- Try to avoid using God Pallets. God Pallets is the literal definition of antifun for the killer - no counterplay and 0 interaction. Try to avoid using God Pallets unless it's a dead zone and God Pallet is the only thing available in that area. That is if you care about both side's fun.
These are a few things that survivors can do to make the killer's game more interesting and fun. If you have any further suggestions, let me know - curious to hear them!
Comments
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I'm going to try and be as respectful as possible. A majority of the time it depends on the situation.
Chill out with the gens: I'm sorry but no, I'm gonna try to finish gens asap. I may not bring a spare part or the best toolbox, but using Prove Thyself and Deja Vue, I'm going to try and finish to escape. That is the main goal of the game. Now to agree with this point, if its a killer who is obviously having a bad time, IE 3 gens done and no one has been downed at all, I will go do what you say. But if its been hook after hook, I'm rushing gens.
Chill out with SWF: I don't use SWF, DBD is more authentic without comms.
Don't Tunnel Gens: I disagree, see point one.
Don't hold W: Bro, I need every help I can get when getting away. I can't loop for beans so I'm going to run the best I can.
Try to avoid God Pallets: I don't even know what a God pallet is so see point four.
Again, I mean these as respectful as possible from the viewpoint of a casual gamer with over 100 hours. Otherwise, you have good intentions and I can respect that. :)
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Lots of survivors say that killers CAN'T criticize survivors doing gens fast because it's "their objective". Would you also agree that survivors can't criticize killers for maximising their efficiency in killing survivors because that's their objective too?
If you agree with that statement, then fair deal. If not, then I would like to hear your thoughts and rationale for why not.
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If I see 3 gens pop early I lean back in my chair and outside the window at the pigs flying over a rainbow or something.
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I'm just going to assume for my own sanity that this is a fun little satire goof and not someone who legitimately believes these things
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This is not satire and it was never intended to be that way.
Survivors don't like the killer doing X things because it's unfun/interactive/no counterplay.
Killers also don't like survivor's doing Y things because it's unfun/interactive/no counterplay.
Both sides agree to limit/minimize doing these things, and the end result = everyone is having more fun.
What's hard to get?
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Buddy, I'm in the camp that camping, slugging, and tunneling, while unfair strategies, are still strategies. Heck, there are killers made for those purposes. I'll be salty still if I get tunneled out, but that's still a legitimate part of the match. But like I said, doing gens depends on the situation as a whole. Obviously someone new is going to get me to help them farm points, no sweat.
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Quality post lol. It'll fall upon deaf ears at our friendly fun-loving survivor friends though. I've had one survivor give me a free kill when I had a bad game in my entire history of playing this game and I'm devotion 24
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I'm genuinely curious to know when people in this community started expecting others to dictate their fun for them, on both sides.
It's an online game with other human beings. There will always be an element of randomness and chance. You can do everything right but that element can sometimes still work against you because games with other humans are not and cannot be some perfectly coded thing based just on what you alone do.
Killers will play in ways you don't like. So will a team of survivors. People need to learn to give up their control issues and just accept this.
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The problem with your "salt" is that it probably also comes in undermining the killer's achievements, like telling that the killer was "no skill", "bad", etc even though they got 4K. This is just an assumption from my side about you, but survivors are very rarely salty without attacking killers.
So survivors often refer to insults, especially regarding the killer's gameplay choices, but the same is very rarely said to the survivor's side when they do barely any skilful activities and still manage to pump out gens and/or escape. In this case, a killer has every reason to be salty about survivors too.
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I don't remember the last time I was given a kill by a survivor, irrespectively how nice I played. The only time I get given a kill is when survivors are sick of the game and just want out lol.
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No. Let's keep the genrush baby
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That's fine as long as you can take the other side also playing for the same principles ;)
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No, the same way killers shouldn't have to care for survivors fun, survivors dont have to care for killers fun.
My stance is if its not bming, its fair game.
If killer wants to bring nurse with the best addons and no mercy, go ahead. if i get salty, its my problem not theirs.
If survivor want to bring 4 bnp toolbox and get out ASAP, go ahead. If i get salty its my problem not theirs.
showing "mercy" to the other side should be appreciated, not expected.
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the thing is and I'm dead serious about this reflection:
If survivors do what you're saying we can be sure the killer will have fun
but can we be sure if survivors do all of that the killer will play in a "nicer way" too?
that's where the problem lies, isn't it?
how many of us have been in a match where the killer ends the game right in the beginning just by getting a "lucky" 2 down on the get go? And how many of those killer stop and think "well, I'm doing this too fast, I better let them have fun"?
I'll be honest with you: I saw this like 3 times in 3 years, the killer saw how frustrating the match was for us and he slowed down the downs and choose to "farm" a little bit before ending the match. The rest of them? They all are happy with their 8~12 hooks and a 4 gen standing and that's all that matters.
I couldn't count how many times I lost a game with 4~5 gen standing with a killer that pressured the game so much survivors got dizzy. I said this here before and I'll say it again: whenever I'm playing killer and the team I'm facing is struggling I let them farm before the end of the match, sometimes if they're nice I even let them escape, but if I get "bulliy" survivors I'll definitely end the match as soon as possible and that's how every killer should think, but instead they get in the match with the mentality that "OH I HAVE TO GET THAT 4K OR ELSE... IF I DON'T SLUG THE LAST SURVIVOR THE OTHER ONE WILL GET HATCH SO... OH IF I DON'T TUNNEL THIS ONE I'M GONNA LOSE THE GAME... I BETTER STAY IN FRONT OF THIS HOOK, I DON'T WANNA LOSE THIS KILL"
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Dont bodyblock the very first hook/dont bodyblock at all.
like the killer has earned the hook after they had a succsessfull chase right? Let them have it.
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Good one! I think also comp corner is applicable here.
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oh definitly!
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The Same goes in the other way when you see SoloQ players Only, because you know it will be chill (mosts killer get a profit of it and always want to 4 k if not they are not happy) always remember SoloQ<Killer<SWF.
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Fair, but at this moment there is obvious bias involved in expecting killers to play nicely, but not the survivors. Most expectations for survivors currently are not to do actual toxic things, like teabags, flashlight spam, etc. But rarely ever it's being discussed regarding survivors' gameplay choices too.
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About this, i dont know. I mainly play soloQ and believe me when i say that you cant honestly play chill at least in the first 3 min of the game.
As you can expect a full slowdown build in a fast movement killer.
As you can expect an agi-star midwich offering nurse curbstomping your team in 4 minutes.
As you can expect a facecamper bubba or a basement trapper.
As you can expect DC and suicide on hook early.
With all this things, it is hard to "play chill" and not commit to gens whenever i can. I dont go with gen rush builds though.
Post edited by Rovend on2 -
i never teabags and flash spam , as i very rarely camp or , slug or tunnel unless at the very end if i have nothing more to do in last resort . i win mosts of my game this way as killer 85% . As SoloQ my biggest problem are teamates.
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Cool advice
but
I'm going to play how I want to regardless of the role I decide to pick.
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If you take out "always" in all your statements, I think it would make more sense buddy. The game would be long-dead if it "always" happened.
Also by your logic then killers should also always tunnel and camp in case there are sweats on the survivor's side. It might not happen every game, but you can "expect" it, so the killers should not take chance and just play sweaty in case it happens.
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Maybe not always, but it is frequently.
The two games i could play in the new map, both were against the most toxic face camping bubbas. The ones that keep hitting you on hook and nodding you for no other reason than to grief you.
In Most my games, the killers' build are always a variation of eruption/Brine/Overcharge/Pain res so i cannot stop repairing or i would be throwing.
And nurses are still extremely strong, and never fun to play against as they really always play like they are in a Dbd World Championship.
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Okay, Im just going to say it, the Killer's objective is hooks, the Survivor's objective is generators. Killers should be expected to get 2 Kills; or a better metric of 6 Hooks. Survivors should be expected to complete 5 generators.
You can play the worst match of Killer you have ever played, get 3 Hooks, and still leave a match with a 3K. You can play the best match of Killer you have ever played and still leave a match with 8 Hooks but a 0K. Kills do not matter at all. Some of my most fun matches of Killers are ones where I perform well and Survivors also perform well.
Tunneling and Camping are good at building pressure, but they suck if you want to improve. If you want to actively get better at the game, and have more fun as a result of improvement, making sure everyone else has a fun and fair matches. Go for unique survivors. Go for more hooks. Otherwise you are directly shooting yourself in the foot.
"Oh but fun is subjective", and it is, BUT, there is a huge clause here, how much of the game's skills you pick up on is a metric that can actually be measured. If MMR is throwing you into more difficult matches, and you take cheap methods for Hooks and Kills, it starts a cycle where you are only put into more matches you cant handle leading to the same cheap methods to play out over and over. It creates an unfun situations where the Survivors are forced to deal with your BS, and an unfun situation for the Killer because they feel like they cant do anything to win.
And if you think that what I am saying is a load of crap, allow me to just say, I use to be stuck in that cycle. I use to think that Tunneling and Camping were fine, so I tunneled one person out, and camped for my other Kills. I got stuck in this mindset that it was all I need to do to win. And I was not having fun with the game, and I blamed the game for it when really it was just my fault the whole time. You can go through my older posts and maybe even see how I felt about it.
I just dont want the same to happen to others.
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I mean, I see your point but this is a bit counterproductive, don't you think? Survivors and killers have the goal to win the match. Your suggestions, while greatly improving some killer games, basically tell survivors they have to risk the game for pretty much no reward other than MAYBE a "gg wp" in EGC. I think there are other ways survivors can be a bit nicer without actively nerfing themselves like:
- Don't tbag. Would you appreciate the killer hitting you on hook every single time? It is unnecessary bming.
- If you are about to win the match with your SWF after absolutely dominating the killer that's good for you. But keeping the last gen 99ed and not allowing the game to end until you feel the killer has suffered enough is a really unhealthy mentality. It happens rarely but it is more than a little demoralizing.
- Think about your items. Do you really need 4 green toolboxes/medkits with extra charges and perks to make them even more efficient? Do they improve the quality of your games or is it just the quanitity?
- If you lose, that doesn't make it a bad game automatically. If you had fun the game was good. Typing "gg" doesn't take a lot but it makes a difference.
- If the other side played nice, be appreciative. There is no need to be hostile towards friendly players. This is exactly how starstruck Nurses and bully SWFs are born.
- Swallow your pride and accept that sometimes the other side did indeed play well. There is no need for hostility in EGC just because you lost or don't like the other side's perks.
The last 3 points go for both sides. We can all have fun if we aren't always focusing on the negative and be a bit nicer. Its not an "us vs them".
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There is nothing hard to get, we are not subscribing to any playbooks. Satire or otherwise.
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It's funny because as soon as a SWF starts chilling out on gens and starts going for flashlight saves or fun plays they get called a "bully squad" lol
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ALL your games are nurse on midwich??
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exactly, thats the way survivors to tell the killers to risk their games aswell. Someone just made the effort to turn it around. If we all would agree upon this rules even i would start to not tunnel and camp etc. But it aint gonna happen and whenever someone is flaming about tunneling im going to look at this post and see if they disagreed with it, then i immediatly know they are biased.
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Not every game, but i had 4-5 nurse streaks in midwich.
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when? today? or the past week? do you mean 4-5 nurse streaks every day?
you say you can always expect it so it has to happen like regularly.
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you gotta wave them over and let them down u for free
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I wish there was a universal way we could communicate that we want to chill and have chases rather than kill/gen rush and get it all over with asap.
I would love to be able to have fun chases and I am happy to let everyone go, or have fun chases and be sacrificed at the end. But as killer if I try to be 'nice' it gets mistaken as weakness and I get BM'd or as survivor I just get camped and tunnelled and wish I had just rushed gens.
Occasionally the other side gets it and it is so much fun when I can instigate a 1v1 in a match rather than a literal 1v1 custom
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It was once, like two weeks ago.
Yes, i said that wrong. I truly meant to say that whenever i queue alone and start a game, i can expect to be matched regularly with nurses and these nurses regularly bring midwich offerings, but not always. Happy?
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I think OP is trying to prove a point with a trap : if you don't agree with these claims, you don't deserve to complain about the killer playing smart (tunneling, camping, ect...). OP is showing the double standard in the community pushed by the majority : survivors.
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not at all but i dont have to be XD
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Someone gave me one last night (although I think it was more because I had an absolutely dismal game). Which got funny, because I carried him to the exit gate and he kept crawling back. EGC won, in the end.
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I will always agree with no BM the killer, no T-bags at gates, being nice in the end game chats. But not everything in the OP can be done.
If i see the killer using perks like eruption to play against soloQ players, i usually wont chill on gens.
If i am matched against a killer with a clear anti loop mechanic(nurse, artist), i will hold W or i will die.
If i see a killer with a clear intention of tunneling me to death at 5 gens, i will use every god pallet i can find.
Depends on the situation, but understand that this is not out of despise for the killer but because i also want to win from time to time.
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That's what you should do as a survivor, and that's what I would do too. With that being said, accept the killer playing by the same principles (somewhat reasonably using any means to win) and don't talk badly about him, and don't tell that he is unskillful or doesn't deserve the result.
If you criticize how he played, you can also be criticized for the same things. What you should do, is say "gg" and analyse what things you could've done better in that game. And if you are 100 % absolutely sure there is nothing you could've done better, then you are free to complain about it on forums - but only if you are 100 % certain about it ;) But usually, there are tons of things survivors could've done better and things to learn from - regardless of how the killer played.
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We could all do to care a little more about the other sides enjoyment of the game.
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But i am not criticizing how killers play. 🤔
I am just saying that not always you can apply the things you posted in the OP.
The only times i write something is when i face a killer that really tries his best to be as toxic as possible. The ones that leave you on the floor to bleed, or the previously mentioned facecamp bubbas hitting you on hook.
Other than that, is always a "gg" and leave
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Nobody should care at all about either side is the truth, the people who want to get salty about camping, tunneling, SWF, genrushing etc... Are the main problem with this game, it's not real life ya know? Someone didn't go to the killers house and smash a real pallet on him , start dropping bags and leave, vice versa the killer didn't go to the survivors house and beat them up , watch them bleed out on the floor etc... When people forget this is supposed to be fun and not serious 100% of the time that's when it's time to play a different game and chill out instead of people acting like they're all certified GOATS of the game and how dare anyone disrespect their pixels in a imaginary setting 🙄
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Except both sides have FAR too much control over how much fun the other side will have.
Even if they lose, Killers can absolutely ruin one person's game.
Even if they lose, survivors can stress the ######### out of Killers and make them have a miserable time.
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"Don't tunnel gens - very simple. If a killer downs a survivor near 99 % completed gen, don't go to gen to complete it while the killer is going to hook someone. Leave the gen, and come back to it later. The killer put pressure, he deserves that gen being left alone. And if you tunnel that gen, this is equivalent to camping a survivor in the last seconds to get the 2nd/the 3rd stage on a survivor."
Ummmmmm, no. HELL NO!!!
If a gen is at 99% (and the killer isn't a patato with zero hooks) I am willing to die to get it done and to hell with the killer's enjoyment. With the current Overcharge, Call of Brine, & Eruption meta if I leave that gen and go scratch my balls the gen will be at zero. If it's a critical gen in the center of the map, I try that much harder.
Edit: Besides finishing a gen =/= killing a survivor. All the gens can get done and the survivors can still all die and lose the game. If a survivor dies, the game is over for that person.
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Aw yes. Equality.
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It's on the person to brush it off and move on no matter what side because it's a game, I encourage people to find the humor in all of it , laugh it off and move on and they'll be more pissed you didn't give them the reaction they were looking for
I mean the way this game is, that survivor who you feel disrespected you could be the one to get you out of a match later on and become a friend, but nobody who trash talks and gets upset will ever know that because then that person will say ######### it leave em to die, this is why in chat I'm always respectful and nice win or lose because at the end of the day game is over at that point and we're all having fun.
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I'm gonna be honest, my lobbies don't see the gates being powered (let alone opened) quite as often as matchmaking would have me believe they should. So I'd love to chill with the gens, for example, but doing so would only make the discouraging 0E streaks longer.
I will however do what I can to not be a terrible opponent or an even worse sport. It's not hard not being a dick.
I don't teabag or click. I'll leave compliments in endgame chat if killer played fair. I admonish teammates if they were teabagging at the gate or being mean to killer. If killer played fair and got no kills, I'll typically offer them one if I'm not coming back from 10 games of dying in a row (Unless it's a Nurse. Inexperienced Nurses will never walk out of a game with 0K on my watch !). They don't usually accept the kill, but they appreciate the sentiment in my experience.
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thats pvp for ya.
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Edit: Besides finishing a gen =/= killing a survivor. All the gens can get done and the survivors can still all die and lose the game. If a survivor dies, the game is over for that person.
Killing a survivor also doesn't mean instantly winning a game. You can still lose a game even if you tunnel/camp a survivor. And tunneling gen is very similar to tunneling a survivor. Maybe not equal in reward and different impact levels depending on the game stage, but damn close.
Leaving a gen 99 % will probably mean that killer can regress that gen.
Leaving a survivor who gets unhooked at the last seconds before the next stage means that you gave all free time during that stage progression to survivors, and the survivor gets another chance for a chase which is 20+ seconds time waste at least and at worst, an escape and lost pressure.
If you can tunnel that gen, a killer can also wait the last 5 seconds of the hook stage.
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