Survivors Should Care About Killer's Fun
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i like killers who unapologetically use the best strategies to offer much more. Really tired of killers trying to be "nice". Just play like your family is being held hostage. AT least that way solo survivor can either adapt or BHVR will do something. Honestly the best thing a killer could do is simply use the most broken stuff there is.
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The fact that you think Camping/Tunneling is only brought up as a means to being “unfun” pretty much says it all for me.
Those two playstyles (which are not balanced) + the fact that everyone and their mother want to bring every slow down perk possible and current eruption is enough to dictate a non-casual game.
In other words don’t complain about 2-3 gens flying when people have already called out your build. Not in the state of the game where half of the survivors’ build has to be dedicated to “I wonder if the killer will camp this match”. Pls
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Did you just created a "Killer rule-book"? xD
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If you get ######### on in CoD, you can still get kills. You can still do well individually even if you lose.
If you get a good Nurse or a facecamping Bubba, good ######### luck trying to do well individually.
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Let's go I can just brush off the fan club that boots me off whenever I load into a lobby with them.
Or the Survivors who leave me on hook because they recognize my name.
Or the Killers who will facecamp me and make sure I don't get any BP because I played them once.
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yeah maybe CoD is better for you....
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Not when I'm forced to play with PC players with a HUGE advantage.
I'll stick to DBD, at least I'm good at it.
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as long as you dont flame people for how they play...
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That's actually a real issue with the game. In most games you can play the game from beginning to end even if you do bad, here you can't, and getting slugged or facecamped also means you aren't even playing anymore.
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You do realize that most antigen perks only work after the killer gets down or requires action from a killer? Most survivors pump out 1-2 gens before the killer gets down in the majority of the games. That's without seeing/experiencing any anti-gen perks, so stop with that "we do gens fast because anti-gen perks are oppressive". You'd do it with or without anti-gen perks because the majority of survivors see it as "objective".
Anti-gen perks are not even that strong. They do become somewhat strong in 3 gen situations, but besides that, they're quite balanced. And if the killer gets quick downs, by all means, he deserves to get some gen pressure which is peanuts compared to what old ruin/pop was. And even the most-complained Eruption is only oppressive in niche cases and requires effort from the killer side.
You seem to confuse cause and effect order. Killers bring anti-gen perks because the game is massively unbalanced if you do not do so, irrelevantly mostly how good you play. And that's because survivors play efficiently on generators. While you are suggesting "we only push gens because killers bring anti gen perks"
And besides that, you can always loop better - nothing to do with anti-gen perks. Anti-gen perks reward killers for being good at the game and survivors for being bad. And most anti-gen perks are completely balanced and very easy to counterplay from the survivor's side.
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Yikes. Wonder who fed you that lie.
I don't need to go into it with you any more, but know this: No one is buying what you are selling.
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The fact that 3-4 gens can still be done before the killer gets a down is why this game is a joke. It's also why SBMM being this game is laughable.
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Just stating facts, you can read perk descriptions if you don't believe me.
Go against any competent team (looping-wise) with your 4 anti-gen build. It won't do anything, you'll be perkless pretty much. The anti-gen builds make bad players actually lose when they would win normally, and against good players to have a chance. The anti-gen builds are not even strong, you are just tired of seeing the same perks - admit it.
By all means, anti-gen stuff should be the base kit for killer given its necessity in equalising the scales. And even then it wouldn't be strong.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
i am buying what they sell though 😹
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Nah dude, you're wrong. If you didn't bring any antigen perks, then gens would be done in 8-10 minutes. It's your fault for bringing sweaty anti-gen perks and forcing survs to tryhard on gens! /s
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"Where's the killer? Is he still chasing you?"
"I'm not at liberty to disclose that information. Let's all chill out. Stop looping."
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I know your being sarcastic lol but I have a YouTube video explaining my whole issue with the fast gens I just posted it a couple nights ago. I was super tilted because I brought a full chase build and the gens were done in I think 4 minutes and 20 seconds or something ridiculous like that. So I was forced to camp and tunnel cuz I had no other play if I wanted at last 1 kill.
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I agree to an extent about the gens. If the killer doesn't have a single hook by the time 3 or 4 gens are done there's basically no reason to continue rushing as the killer has basically lost. Depends on what killer is being used but if the killer is playing Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Oni, or someone else and has no hooks chances are they are new at the game or new at those characters and theres no real worry that they will slug everyone.
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Killers give sometimes mercy for survivors because you have lot more control of the match as killer if it's going your way. Survivors however don't if they start playing easy on killer. He can use that to his advantage and kill the survivors.
Just example when huntress was doing bad missing all her hatches chasing me 3 gens. I gave her down and she facecamped me to death and downed my teammates while they tried save and turned the match into 4K. Maybe swf can give killer bit mercy they can at least control their teammates but in soloQ you should not show them mercy until exits are powered.
Tunneling/slugging/camping are stragedies which you can use but they're not the most fun playstyle for either side and they are not only playstyles to win either. I play for chases which is more fun for both sides but ofcourse I punish survivors from reckless or stupid plays. If they insta unhook I tunnel if they leave someone on hook too long I camp second stage/secure kill. If they gen rush I tunnel/camp. But I don't have reasons to use these stragedies when there are 4-5 gens still left. If survivors bring cakes/streamers I go more easy on them if I can and usually let 2 escape.
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Neither team are babysitter for the opposing side. A fault in the way the game plays? That's a game design problem only developers can fix.
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Shouldn't be the players problem for the fun of others, it's a game. That's the developers problem to make sure everyone is having fun.
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Okay, Im just going to say it, the Killer's objective is hooks, the Survivor's objective is generators. Killers should be expected to get 2 Kills; or a better metric of 6 Hooks. Survivors should be expected to complete 5 generators.
Kills are the main objective for killers, hooks are sub-objectives that lead to the main objective. Devs literally balance the game for kills.
You can play the worst match of Killer you have ever played, get 3 Hooks, and still leave a match with a 3K. You can play the best match of Killer you have ever played and still leave a match with 8 Hooks but a 0K. Kills do not matter at all. Some of my most fun matches of Killers are ones where I perform well and Survivors also perform well.
That is why devs have taken a stance and are balancing for kills now instead of both hooks/kills. Whether it's the right decision, time will tell. I don't think you can balance for kills and hooks at the same time.
Some of my most fun matches of Killers are ones where I perform well and Survivors also perform well.
Some of my MOST UNFUN matches where I perform well, and survivors are performing badly, and I get 1k at tops. You'd ideally want a fair game where the result is directly related to how each side has done in skilful areas, but often more than not, it is not (applies to both sides)
Tunneling and Camping are good at building pressure, but they suck if you want to improve. If you want to actively get better at the game, and have more fun as a result of improvement, making sure everyone else has a fun and fair matches. Go for unique survivors. Go for more hooks. Otherwise you are directly shooting yourself in the foot.
You can easily hit the skill cap of improvement on a lot of killers where you barely can get any better or make better decisions that influence the game. A lot of killer's powers are relatively simple and so is the gameplay loop of killer vs survivor. You can have 10k hours on Wraith, but it's very likely that there will be Wraiths with 1k hours who are nearly as good as you are. Additionally, there are plenty of things in the game that has no counterplay from the killer side, and as such, you "cannot improve" yourself in those areas.
What you can definitely improve with time is strategy and reading the game as a killer. Knowing when to tunnel, dropping chase, prioritizing weak targets etc. And what do you mean you can't get better at the game while tunnelling? You can still chase the other 3 survivors and learn how to down them quickly. You can still learn how to pressure gens. You can still get better at map control. The only time you don't learn anything is when you literally face camp a survivor. In all other ways, you're improving one way or another.
And if you think that what I am saying is a load of crap, allow me to just say, I use to be stuck in that cycle. I use to think that Tunneling and Camping were fine, so I tunneled one person out, and camped for my other Kills. I got stuck in this mindset that it was all I need to do to win. And I was not having fun with the game, and I blamed the game for it when really it was just my fault the whole time. You can go through my older posts and maybe even see how I felt about it.
You can tunnel and camp and still have fun at the game. Mostly comes down when you are not doing it hardcore way, but are adjusting your gameplay as the game progresses. If you just camp and tunnel every survivor, then obviously the game will be boring to you.
And well, tunnelling and camping are not fun - I can agree. But what is even more NOT FUN is playing well, getting 8 hooks and 1/0 kills and most survivors escaping even though they did nothing skilful. I'd take opportunistic tunnelling and camping over that any day. It's lesser of an "unfun" from my point of view.
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Then you like being fed lies too.
Anyone who plays killer understands how strong anti-gen perks are.
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strong enough to give killers a chance at winning you mean? if that makes them OP you only want 1 side to suceed.
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I dont give killers kills usually, but giving them hooks in the end, that was something i used to do, when i was still playing swf.
nowadays, i only play solo, and i think that is fair enough in most cases.
Also, i dont loop, because that is not the part that i want in the game, i usually juke the killer if possible.
However, i still do totem (even dull ones), i use neither dead hard nor coh nor sprint burst nor hyperwhatever, and usually dont bring a toolbox or flashlight (unless needed for a challenge).
I also never teabagg or insult the killers in other ways.
Yet i still see lots of campers and tunnelers in my matches. So i do care about my fellow gamers, but they dont care about me. So why should i keep that up?
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They're strong relative to other perks, but they're not overpowered or strong in absolute terms. In fact, there is not a single perk in the entire killer arsenal that could be said "overpowered". Anti-gen perks were even stronger before the big patch, what are you talking about?
Can't tap call of brine'd generator? Can't hit overcharge skill check? Can't let go off gen when killer hooks survivor?
Which anti-gen perks are keeping you awake at night, sweetie? Maybe it's not anti gen perks, but your teammates... just maybe.
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That stuff you're doing is harder to notice in a match. It's extremely obvious if a killer isn't face camping or tunneling. I definitely appreciate it when survivors aren't running CoH, Hyperfocus with BNP & Stakeout, Dead Hard, etc. CoH alone has basically killed all enjoyment I've had for this game
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No one used the word overpowered. You were the one who stated they aren't strong, which is completely false.
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I play killer and survivor pretty equally, and I gotta say that some parts of this list are a bit ridiculous. SWF being insanely overpowered compared to SoloQ shouldn't mean that SWFs have to play like SoloQ- that defeats the purpose. Sure, chilling out on gens is a fairer way to play if you're just demolishing the killer. Nothin wrong with getting your 1000 totem points or escaping with a new item. I don't see anything wrong with committing to a gen while a killer hooks someone or using god pallets. Pallets are, at the worst, a stun and a slowdown for the killer. I think pre-dropping pallets is more annoying than using god pallets, especially when holding W. Against some killers, holding W is the only choice if you want to have a chance of escaping the chase/not going down immediately. That's on BHVR for designing those killers that way. Mindgaming and looping will always be more entertaining on both sides IMO.
Both sides call out the other for certain playstyles and then blame each other. Chicken or the egg situation. Do killers camp and tunnel/4 slowdown perks because of genrush builds or do survivors do genrush builds because of camping and tunneling/4 slowdown perks? Does it matter? Either way its a toxic cycle thats boring for everyone.
Killers should be penalized for camping and hard tunneling, and survivors shouldn't be penalized for being camped/tunneled. Its incredibly frustrating to be one pip away from a rank and losing it with a score of 3k because a Bubba thinks staring at your face on hook is fun. Its not fun for either side. But the same goes for being genrushed, especially with the disparity in killer powers.
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Chill out with the gens-if you see 2-3 gens popping very early, chill out.Trust me I run an all-seeing build with open-handed, bond, kindred, and alert. Thanks to the rift you can count on at least one survivor crawling down to basement to open a chest, cleansing a totem or booning every time the killer stomps a totem, collecting glyphs, standing in a corner, following someone in chase with a flashlight only to fail at saving. Besides that almost half the killer roster forces survivors to do side objectives-cleanse, mend, vaccinate, spray, snap out of it, solve the lament config. etc. So we already have a laundry list of stuff to do.Chill out with SWF communication- Having information is only half the battle. You have to know what to do with it. You face swf teams all the time you stomp and never assume its a swf. Face 3-4 good solo players in high MMR and swf accusations come out. It's swat team SWF, I knew it.Don't tunnel gens - very simple.With call of brine, overcharge, and scourge hooks on deck? Not a chance!Don't hold W too much. Tell that to the last anti-loop killer the devs introduced. So I should stay in this unsafe loop and get a pigeon flown at me? A guard stabbing me? A Wesker deadharding and tossing me across the map? Trickster stabbing me with 100 knives because the devs shrunk the crates and bins to the size of bowling pins? Maybe I'll let Dredge mindgame me with his portal or Huntress throw her hatchet that she's been holding for two minutes straight through a crack in a barrel.
Try to avoid using God Pallets.I'll resist using God Pallets when you let me meander through a massive dead zone until I can get to an unsafe one.Post edited by feechima on3 -
I took pity on a killer once and tried to give them a free hook. But I had been matched with some crazy 3man swf who would not let that happen. There was bodyblocking and flashlights and flash grenades and hook sabotaging. Had a protection detail all the way out the gate. I think I inadvertently made the killer's game even worse...
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I do chill and avoid gens for a while if I see 3 gens pop and the killer has no hooks while playing solo, but it can go very wrong sometimes, one game I decided to play with my friends, we had 3 gens and the killer had no hooks, we decided to chill and I guess he activated his ''tryhard mode'' or maybe he gave the controller to his older brother, but within 2 minutes we were all slugged and basically lost the match.
You can chill as a killer when you are sure you have the match under control, letys say you are still at 4 gens, you already killed 1 survivor and 2 other survivors are on dead hook...you can chill because you know the game has already slowed down with 1 survivor dead and you can even slow it down further by maybe taking down another survivor but by playing survivor you never realy know if the game is gonna go south extremely fast or not.
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wesker and his inability to move fast round corners is beating you at loops now?
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We could all due with a little more empathy and good spiritedness around the holidays.
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If there is a nearly done gen and the killer is nearby, it's the killer's job to make it costly for the survivors trying to finish that gen in his face. If the survivors are willing to pay the price to finish that gen then they deserve to get it done.
I just don't agree that "tunneling a gen" (what a joke that phrase even is) is the same as tunneling a survivor. You make it sound like the survivors are cutting off a limb of the killer when they complete a gen. That's just not the case. There are many games where 3 gens pop in the first chase and the killer still gets a 4k. A killer does not become less effective as the gens get completed. A survivor can go down a metre from the threshold of leaving the game and killer can still get that kill.
However a survivor squad loses massive amounts of effectiveness as members of their team die. Killing a survivor doesn't mean instantly winning a game, but it sure tips the scales in the killer's favor. If there are 3-4 gens left and a survivor is dead their odds of getting more than a hatch escape become very slim. Once the survivor team goes a man down it becomes much harder to complete gens because they just lose so much labor. If 1 survivor is on the hook and one survivor is going for the save and then heal a 3 man squad has 1 person working on a gen while a 4 man squad could have 2 working on a gen. If 1 survivor is on the hook, 1 is being chased and 1 is on the hook the 3man squad has no one working on a gen while a 4 man squad could possibly still be getting gen progress here. It's pretty easy to see how a team going a man down is a huge loss.
Your if "if you tunnel a gen, then I'll camp you to the next stage" is a stupid argument. We're gamers, not mind readers. We just assume you're a camping scumbag anyway, no reason to give you any quarter. You're trying to kill us and we can't even kill you back.
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LOL. Or people could just stop trying to tell others how to play the game.
I play to win - whether I am playing survivor or killer - plain and simple. I don't care what perks/items survivors bring as killer nor do I care what killers use when I play survivor. You do you - if others don't like it - that's their problem.
Wanna "gen rush" - go ahead
Wanna tunnel - go ahead
Wanna be a sabo squad - have fun
Wanna face camp - cool
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I don't know if my little brain can comprehend or not that this discussion is sarcastic. I have decided that I can understand it this time.
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this game is like no other indeed... part of it is due dying and not respowning.
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Survivor’s - especially SWF are the center of the universe and expect to run their game w/ obnoxious behavior. Most don’t care for their random teammates.
A survivor told me in the end game chat to get a rope and a chair the other day after getting them off the hook and taking a hit, but NOT going down for them to escape. I did multiple gens, opened the door, healed others and that wasn’t enough. While everyone was still in the game as well.
I been called Trash a few times recently as a Killer because I used Hex’s ‘plaything/retribution’ and they only got 1 gen done. Also because I used starstruck on another game. I replied you must be bad cuz of the perks you’re using….lol
the ‘Survivor’s mentality is selfish, obnoxious and they use everything possible to give Killers a hard time just to be an JERK while t bagging and laughing about it. While they quick switch to a flashlight before the game starts.
After getting 3 survivor’s w/ 4 gens left I was called Cruel for using a Mori on them near the hatch. They said you got the others you should let me go. I replied Have you ever giving yourself up to a Killer who had a bad game….No reply XD………I have given my self to a killer just recently after they had a bad game. They took me to the gate and dropped me out instead.
I don’t tunnel unless you’re asking for it. I only camp late game on RARE occasions if I feel desperate against a obnoxious group. I will slug whenever I want and NEVER feel bad about it.
I want to escape and I want a 4K too. I’m not going EZ on either side. I won’t be a jerk unless you deserve it.
”I got told I was cruel for not giving the hatch and giving a Mori in front of it after the group died w/ 4 gens left. She said “ you got everyone else you should let me go”…….I said h
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That's what I like about playing survivor. If you have a bad game, you're out of it quickly, and able to get in a new queue.
If you have a bad game as killer, you're stuck there to the end and for the entire duration of the exit timer (because we can't miss a single chance to teabag, can we?), even though the game is 100% decided.
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I do genuinely care about the killers fun, alot of the time. I mainly play survivor and I almost always play alone, it's a casual game where i can mess around and chill, and I enjoy testing out builds and different ways of making the game challenging, since it's a very simple game and more often than not the killers are noobs or outnumbered by tryhard survivors.
The so called "MMR" in this game is so scuffed, I really wish it would change back to what it was, that you go back a couple ranks instead of complete reset, because people that play ALOT will crush anyone who doesn't play alot, but they will be in the same game anyway. I have 2000 hours on DBD and even if I don't play for months, it's an easy way back to "higher rank", it all just depends how much you are willing to grind.
I absolutely hate genrushing and it's so boring, but i still would like to get atleast one gen. Sometimes I just leave gens at 99 or I blow them up again and again so the killer will come to me if I can't find them. The WORST thing about this game is that survivors just do gens and escape. I get it is the "point" of it, but in my eyes it's not playing the game properly if that's all you do.
My strat is usually do one gen, if 3 gens are done real fast I will find the killer to interact and actually play the game, not just do gens. It is so often I'm in games with people that just do gens and then yeet outta there. How can that be fun?
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I'd love to agree with this post as I mostly play solo survivor. Though I can't. Why? It's a vicious cycle in this game. Toxicity runs rampant on both sides. Neither side cares about the other's fun so therefore, they rush gens, tunnel, flashlight save / click, slug, etc.
If you chill out with gens and let the killer get some hooks, it can result in a scenario where it snowballs and the killer just slugs people out for no reason or repeatedly hit them on hook because it's been a rough game and they're gonna make you feel how frustrated they are and it'll then make the survivors regret being nice. On the killer's side, if they let survivors go easy after it's essentially a slaughter and they feel bad, survivors will stay until the very last second at the exit to teabag and waste everyone's time, including their own when the killer didn't have to let them live and will make them regret being nice or the killer takes their foot off the gas a little after a brutal beatdown and the survivors make a genuine comeback and then do tbags, clicks, etc with some finishing bags at the exit or there's still endgame abuse even after playing nice. The result of these outcomes is gen rushing, camping / tunneling / slugging. Obviously these outcomes aren't every time you decide to be nice but the point is the other side will usually find a way to be ungrateful and ruin it so is it any surprise people just don't care anymore?
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I agree, too many have an easy time with some killers (not all, of course) and they all just blitz out the gate. If you had a good game, got some points, and made it to the exit, doesn't that count as a win? Who cares if you get sacrificed at that point, it's only a few BPs. If a killer doesn't have any kills and didn't camp or tunnel, I usually consider sticking around for EGC or an Onryo glare.
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Pointless comment without any argument/basis. Feel free to elaborate instead though - might actually contribute something worthwhile to the discussion.
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Yeah was playing with some random in a chat saw 3 gens fish quickly set my boon and kept resetting it every time he snuffed it gotcalled out for throwing and they kicked me
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Yes, because I've seen the survivor-main argue many times that "the killer should care about the survivor's enjoyment" and I thought it was only natural to say "the survivor should care about the killer's enjoyment" as a sarcastic response to that. I agree with this irony of yours.
On another topic, I see the "if you feel bored as a survivor, you can DC, I don't care about other fun for my own enjoyment" topic.
If they agree with this, do you think anyone on the game should be free to DC? I can ask. Interestingly, the selfish DC addicts disagree.
So I found this discussion interesting.
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So what's the problem with antigen perks being strong? Considering how imbalanced gens are from killer's pov, anti-gen perks are a must-have in large part of games and need to be used as they're more or less a bandaid to the bad design of generators.
You talk as if killers bring antigen perks to stomp casuals at 5 gens and win even harder. But the majority of games end at 1-2 gens left even when running 4 slowdowns. The game would end at 4-5 minutes if anti-gen perks were not in the game. And in fact, anti-gen perks are probably one of the healthiest designed perks in the game as they: a) require interaction from the killer b) reward the killer for playing well.
This is especially seen in contrast to some of the survivor perks which are giving 2nd chances for playing badly.
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Dude I never said there is anything wrong anti-gen perks. I was simply correcting you when you say that “They aren’t that strong anyway…” That part.
Because it’s simply not true. Your experience is that you absolutely need them whereas mine is that it depends. I main Michael (possibly the most slow killer in the game in terms of mobility). The ONLY time I get “gen-rushed” is because my pressure was not enough to me across the map from point A to point B. Which is the reason I hate maps like Red Forest. It has nothing to do with “needing” perks.
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in most cases i dont think you need 4 slowdown in majority mmr. I think a part of this perception is due to the fact of 1-3 gens pop in the first 3-4 mins usually often before you have more than 1 hook causing people to think they just lost the game(i have this happen a fair amount where i am like welp, i just lost). keeping calm, playing smart and keeping pressure is usually enough to greatly stall or slow the game giving you time to snowball. It may be a different story at high mmr, but most people arent high mmr.
and ive had plenty of games where the killer got 0 hooks before egc and then 3 or 4 of us died. the game isnt over till its over.
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My experience with solo queue is when I start to slack if the game feels too easy my teammates suddenly snowball after one hook for example if the killer camps so now I've learnt to gen rush even if it seems 100% chance of escape and if the game went too fast drag out end game for BP
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