Can we Nerf Windows of Opportunity?

DBDVulture

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371871#Comment_3371871

-"You're aware that the second part is actually playing those pallets correctly, right?"

I'm extremely good at getting people to waste pallets. To this end I bring Bamboozle which usually forces the survivor to give you a hit or use a pallet immediately on the first loop. Almost everyone I play against hates the way I play because I often drive them instead of the other way around.

-"You're still going to get outplayed by a good looper regardless of WoO, sorry about that."

My favorite Killer is Nemesis. I rarely get outplayed at a pallet. But when I see someone pull some nonsense that would shut down something like 50% of the killer cast it raises a huge red flag for me about this game's balance.

-"Which means the focus of this topic should be on maps... and not blaming perks."

WoO makes existing map imbalances worse. It allows the best players in the game to chain tiles more efficiently. WoO almost exactly matched the old pick rate for Iron Will (looking at some perk use sites) and has an effectively similar function in chases.

This is the exact opposite of Bamboozle. I bring Bamboozle on most killers as insurance because sometimes you get two windows that would be a near infinite if you didn't have the perk. That's complete nonsense.

Gandor

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371902#Comment_3371902

You should watch old clips from this game. You would be surprised how many pallets just disappeared silently without anyone ever saying anything. Like one prime example - you spoke about Gideon and it's 25 pallets (and no windows + tiny size btw), but forgot that there used to be up to 34 pallets (or at minimum 32).

The only map with pallet count increase recently that I noticed is shelter woods - but they swapped those very few pretty good gym pallets for more filler/rock pallets. Otherwise practically all the maps are slowly loosing pallets

AMOGUS

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371902#Comment_3371902

Nah, the problem is you and the others. Period. You going period doesn't mean you're right, I know that you're upset but still.

"You've dismissed everything I've said by just calling me bad at the game. Yeah, that's insulting me. "Call out", yeah right."

That's absolutely not what I said and you're just ignoring advice that I gave you instead of... idk, even saying to me that you already switch targets, but go off. You're pretty much demonstrating why the devs don't listen to this community.

And which new maps will they not run out of pallets on before the gens are done? Borgo? The new Shelter Woods has even less pallets and lots of deadzones from what I saw on the PTB. There's like... one god loop on Skully's hideout to make up for it. And Wesker came with the RPD reworks. Which have god pallets... but you have to drop those pallets frequently and then the Killer can quickly kick and move on. Those maps are considered Killer sided anyways, last I checked.

"And even when you do exhaust pallets, WoO tell survivors where the pallets aren't anymore, too, which makes it a lot easier for them to avoid the deadzones they created and stick to strong tiles. Which is the whole reason I want its range reduced, so that they can't make make the most optimal decision at all times because of the huge amount of information it gives them."

This is pretty much just complaining about the perk itself and, in the bigger picture, complaining about a perk that can compete with DH and COH for perk slots. A range reduction isn't going to do anything if a Survivor just runs around a bit before sitting on a gen, you're clearly focused around Survivors sitting on a gen and looking around them. Not to mention that this is a bit funny, since WoO kinda helps with looping when in solo queue and you need to know what pallets your dumb teammates threw down. Which is probably a reason why WoO is so used: Solo queue.

Plus it's complaining about Survivors not running to dead zones and then getting hit because they thought a pallet was still there when someone used it earlier. You're upset because some inefficiency is gone and you can't get M1 hits as easily anymore... which is kinda necessary for a perk to see similar use as DH. Just get rid of the pallets that they run to. Even as M1, you can do it.

""Just chase survivors." I can't when they're chaining every single pallet and loop together in a perfect run. "Just pressure them off gens." How, if I can't chase them? There is no pressure. You cut off one chase to check gens and the guy you ditched goes and hops on a gen themselves. Then you're back to square one with nothing accomplished. The only way this could work is to camp a 3-gen and break all the pallets around it, and even that won't work most of the time, and it sure won't be enjoyable even if it does."

Firstly, you switched your argument. You said just pre-dropping earlier, and I shut that down. Admit you were wrong about that first.

Second... it sounds like your problem is optimal Survivor play, and not perks. Chaining tiles together is easy without WoO against anyone who knows the maps. And especially the bit about other people getting on gens when you're switching targets. Your root issue is not being able to deal with that kind of play. And it is difficult, but there are things that you can do.

It's based purely off of circumstances and the positions of everyone, but what the Survivors are doing affects what your next move is. Should you just chase someone to a pallet and make them drop it ASAP, then go back and chase another? Should you keep switching targets until you find the weakest link (Keyword: Weakest, not weak, there are weak links in teams but sometimes everyone is strong. In that case, you find the weakest out of the 4, and just chase them around until you can down them, or squeeze more pallets out of them.)?

Again, your problem is good Survivors, not WoO. Nerfing WoO isn't going to deal with Survivors who know how to chain tiles, it just makes it only slightly easier. Which isn't worth nerfing the perk for everyone else, sorry.

AMOGUS

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372102#Comment_3372102

And okay? That's their problem, you're shutting down what they're doing, you're dealing with good players in an efficient way. Ofc they're going to hate how you play, it's DBD, people can't take losses.

I also figured your favorite Killer was Nemesis, I remember scrolling down this topic and saw a tentacle mentioned at one point and formed an idea based off of that, but I've dealt with people using said ideas in arguments, so.

And it's more like 85%, if you're referring to shift+w and pre-dropping. Problem is, again, that style doesn't work unless in comp or you're on a map like The Game, but that map is somewhat unique in that it's an fairly enclosed space, and shift+w isn't quite as strong there.

"WoO makes existing map imbalances worse. It allows the best players in the game to chain tiles more efficiently. WoO almost exactly matched the old pick rate for Iron Will (looking at some perk use sites) and has an effectively similar function in chases."

It only lets people chain more efficiently slightly by allowing for some pre-planning and small reactions mid-chase. Problem is, again, the same pallets spawn in similar places, and the best players, or even experienced players, know the basics on how map formation works. WoO or no WoO, they will know where the pallet is, you are not going to see a huge difference. Again, your problem is maps, not WoO. I don't want a perk that helps solo queues with their dumb teammates dropping every pallet and getting the team killed nerfed just because you can't deal with a slight advantage.

And Bamb is amazing for shutting down places with god vaults efficiently like Killer shack with a good Survivor, it's an underrated perk for M1s and Killer in general that people sleep on. The low perk rate is because people are sheep, that really is it.