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Killers should be punished for tunnelling and not rewarded
Comments
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this is not punishment. It's prevention.
That's fine. It's good effect for survivors, not negative effect for killer.
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You do realize the graph starts right when the 6th Anniversary chapter was out which was also Wesker. Of course the game is going to look worse compared to one of the biggest chapters released.
The fact is if you compare the game's playerbase to the same period (before the anniversary chapter), the game has maintained a stable player base. We'll see a surge of players with the 7th anniversary chapter.
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Because people keep saying this game is dying for many years.
Every year is same, lot of players get back during anniversary event, then they keep leaving until it gets to around 30k on steam -> repeat.
This can happen on any big licence too. Wesker and Nemesis were big for this.
30k players is far from dying.
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April 2022 - 29,948
April 2023 - 30,061
Nice try....
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kinda just sounds like semantics
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Kinda of a hard to do, considering it is the killer objective to do. To kill as fast and efficiently as possible. Survivors are similar yet more different then killer, as it is all about Escapes, which involves fixing 5 generator, open the exit gates, and get out. It called Gen Rushing. But of course, it is easy to do then killer's as you have 3 extra players beside you then can do the gens.
Let's me tell you why it not so easy to punish Tunneling, just like it's not so easy to punished gen rushing. It's like telling the players to literally not play the game at all. The more you play, more fun and "friendly" you are not playing as a cold hearted killer trying to kill no mercy or as a Survivor trying to endure and survive. There perks that not only encourage you to tunnel and camp more (gen regression perks) but also perks that encourage to do Gen faster and survive better, even on hooks. (Prove Thyself, Reassurance, etc.) The point is no matter what you do to perks or even complete remove every single perk from the game; it always the same game and most efficient way to win. The killer is encourage to tunnel because going for different Survivors, and many hooks is completely pointless, when the Survivors are all still alive and the killer is "losing". Survivors on the other hand, is conditionally by the game to save their team, because it will increase their chances of survival and Success for their objective to escape, to win. They also act entitled and cry, whenever they down on their luck or skill in getting caught and sorted forced to lose by the killer whom Been forced to win by any means necessary. Do you all see the problem, it is a endless cycle of back n forth, over the win conditions set forth by the devs; that are not truly fun or fair for both parties.
If you want tunnel to be gone for good, I think setting the goals for more hooks win conditions is favorable; with a kill being a bonus. For Survivors, they need more objectives, since there are 4 of them; and gens shouldn't be the only main objective to do, in order to escape. It can be looking for switch not next to the exits or looking for parts; it can be bringing fuel to a generator once it I'd fixed; it can even be going to this location like the basement to go find a key to open the exit gates once powered. Or even gives Survivors the ability to build their own defenses and make their own versions of Breakable Walls called Buildsble walls, pallets, and windows. The possibilities are endless, anything to make speed run the gens is not easy thing to do by experience Survivors, especially in swf.
Nothing will changes, until the base game mechanics are changes, along with the win conditions for both sides. The kill/escape conditions encourage both sides to play "toxic" in order to win effectively, and we shouldn't blame every player for playing the game the way the devs have made it out to be. They even tell players that Tunneling isn't a bannable rule, yet Don't necessarily found many good solutions to remedy or completely remove it from typical gameplay.
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In all of my solo Q games I have never seen this happen unless you chase me off it.
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I'm always wondering why people want to make punishment instead of actually making it impossible, do they want people to suffer rather than actually fixing the game?
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The issue is the best anti tunnel perks are gated behind dlc. This means the casuals who need anti tunnel protection the most won’t usually have it. A good survivor with otr and ds can make the killer waste enough time that they effectively throw the game to get one kill. Tunneling can exist but it needs to be a high risk high reward strategy. Right now it’s a guaranteed win if there is even a single bad survivor or one who didn’t bring anti tunnel. There is zero downside to tunneling in an average match which is why everyone does it now. The only teams that can currently beat hard tunneling are organized SWF. Add a general perk or some sort of basekit option.
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Survivors have been abusing base BT for you? What region are you in if I may ask?? Because in every single one of my EU lobbies the survivor doesn't even get a chance to do this so called "abuse the free BT perk" since the change because the killer has ALWAYS been straight back to the hook before they've even had a chance to finish the unhook animation and tunnel them out the game. One of the main reasons why I've stopped playing as much because it's not as fun as it once was.
From your description it seems more like you don't tunnel but even before the change survivors would take the free BT hit if they were in an SWF, that sounds like more of what you experienced. The BT change was a good change and did help drag out the game a little longer, however for survivors who don't know how to loop it made no difference.
It doesn't matter what change is implemented, at the end of the day it's a game after all and people in general will always use the easiest cheese available, regardless of it's impact. Hence why certain perks become popular so fast. My main post here wasn't to provide any suggests as of yet, it was merely to raise awareness to what has been plaguing the game lately and severely reduced my game time due to it.
As for your insults, I don't condone any of them but it is a very lazy playstyle for a killer, that I would agree is one of the reasons it needs a change.
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I understand that tunnelling is needed because gens are done too quickly, that's why if tunnelling is nerfed, then they need to implement more gens or more tasks to do or just something else for survivors to do to waste a little more time.
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Correct, my post was in regards to only your third variation.
I have seen killers target just two survivors (the one he hooks first and the second one unhooking only) until both are out of the game, but even then that's a LOT better than just targeting 1 person only.
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Regardless of my reasons people would still objectively try to argue why it shouldn't be nerfed, the post was merely in regards to more awareness for the devs.
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Your scenario is very situational and only describes a perfect scenario. What it doesn't explain is that each player must be good at the game, each player must have hyperfocus, each player must be able to loop effectively, each player must also have to hold out long enough to finish gens and finally the downtime distance from gen to gen/knowing the map.
FYI the last time I was able to finish a gen in 40 seconds solo was months ago.
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I think the biggest part of your point is the following; "The killer is encourage to tunnel because going for different Survivors, and many hooks is completely pointless, when the Survivors are all still alive and the killer is "losing"." THIS NEEDS changing by devs 100% and i'm sure it will impact gameplay heavily in the higher rank lobbies, they were also the most fun for me personally, playing for 15-30 minutes straight back and forth with the killer with both sides being heavily aggressive in their objectives and trying to waste as much time on both sides while also trying to win. Instead of the rush 5 gens for 5-10 minutes then leave strat.
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Is this a solvable problem without changing the gameplay design significantly?
BHVR has introduced anti-tunneling perks but unless you take one of these perks all the time you will eventually have this experience of being tunneled and feel like there isn't much you can do, and taking the perks may make you more of a target and get you tunneled anyway. If a survivor is being tunneled every game I would argue that is down to something the survivor is doing for every single killer to tunnel them.
Sometimes tunneling is a legit strat if as the killer you can eliminate the strongest player early, you can pretty much guarantee the win, but at the same time not tunneling the strongest player out of some sense of fair play for the survivors can cost you the game, like it or not the game isn't designed around each survivor taking turns on the hook and I would expect any decent survivor team to exploit the killer's weakness when the killer has this "fair play" mentality.
Killers shouldn't be there as referees to make sure all survivor players feel it has been a fair game by the survivor's definition, to ensure everyone has fun, they are there to win the game.
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I agree with the fact that tunnelling is annoying but punishing killers for this is too much, not for them. We'll have to change the game so much that it doesn't feel like a game anymore. So why not reward killers who don't use the strategy? therefore the killers who still tunnel can still tunnel, but the rewards would be good enough that tunneling will just blow over...
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Lmao as a killer and survivor main it’s quite annoying seeing survivors using BT and such as a shield then complain about tunneling
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Personally I find this more funny than annoying because it should be pretty clear that the endurance effect you gain from being unhooked is intended to protect the survivor who was unhooked, not to protect someone else. It's in a way a bit cute that people really get upset when they get tunneled caused by that.
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The only playstyle that is “fun” to Survivors is 12 hooking everyone. Any other playstyle gets complained about. Gen Defense, Totems, Tunneling, Camping and Slugging. Even some people are complaining about Hit and Run recently.
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That's because, when Survivors say 'Camping/tunneling/whatever is not fun or healthy for the game', what they mean is 'Me losing is not fun for me, so I will wrap it in BS about the health of the game to try scaring the devs into making sure I never lose.'
You will note, while Survivors scream about tunneling being 'unfun' because it 'Knocks someone out of the game quickly'; Those same Survivors will say 'Lol, skill issue' if the topic of genrushing is brought up. Because apparently losing quickly is only bad if it's Survivors losing.
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Interesting concept, blaming the survivor because the killer refuses to use another playstyle. First time playing just now since I created this post and guess what? Instantly tunnelled, it's not the survivor mate it's the game. It needs changing because I'm honestly sick of it. This is why I quit playing in the first place.
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Your post states you're a main for both but the point you're making is heavily biased as a killer. Might want to rethink that post.
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What are you talking about?
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As I wrote this post originally, I still stand by my main point. I understand "Meta" but I do not understand "meta" when 90% of the time a killer ignores all other routes to win and purposely decides on 1 tactic. I would understand if it was the same killer, but it's not. It's almost every killer I come against. This is not a survivor flaw, it is a flaw due to mechanical design. It feels like a frustrating punch in the stomach every time I try to get back into this game which used to be fun, now it's the same old "oh he found you first? Guess what your reward is being TUNNELLED!"
Last year I could happily play solo 95% of the time and LFG for the other 5% and I would be fine; but now it's only fun for the killer because there really is nothing you can do against one who targets and tunnels; you don't feel as though you're rewarded enough for your time as a survivor anymore, nowadays you take a massive XP hit every game due to it, constantly going against a tunnelling killer forces you to start being toxic when it comes to the perks you use which in turn fuels the hatred for toxicity within the game as a whole. Unless the survivor really is better than the killer (with SBMM nowadays that's almost never) because most survivors just run around or hide while you're being chased, it really feels like the fun is gone in this game and I really hate that I said that but it's true.
I do hope the community mods read this post and understand the frustration survivors are actually facing due to the constant tunnelling and I really hope big changes are coming.
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The same can be true for both sides "me losing isn't fun for me"
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They did have something...that's what Base kit BT was about. 10 seconds of endurance and extra speed for you to run away.
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Same
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Those threads, and its comments especially, are more and more irritating, tho silly at the same time.
First of all... why one can think that removing tunneling from the game = killer loosing matches?
Second, why counterargument for such threads is always "what about genrush"? I mean... its related, for sure, but its not the topic. Im for both - nerf genrush and remove tunneling, bith tactics are bad for game health, but if topic is about genrush, then one should not bring tunneling and vice versa.
And third - If one is talking about rewarding killers for not tunneling, it basically nullifies argument, that without tunneling killer cannot win, the sentence litterally says "reward" so some kind of help of doing killer objective - and this should be the main discussion in such threads: what reward, what in exchange, or, on the other hand, why it should not be a thing.
Otherwise we are going totally offtop.
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Well here’s how you reduce tunneling and camping
1.learn to loop
2.preserve pallets
3.don’t use BT/end status to body block
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There already is,they're called endgame perks
Rancor is one of them, which is severely underrated for some reason, even tho it can be incredibly powerful against genrushers with game afoot
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Yes but there is definitely a clear difference between tunnelling and just losing outright everygame.
For example, you get tunnelled as a killer what do you do? put on antitunnelling perks, they help somewhat but if teammates don't do gens then it makes no difference.
As a killer all you need to do is use bubba, then you've got camping and tunnelling made even easier. Now I'm not saying bubba is too easy to use but I am saying that the effect, which is tunnelling, is too easy to implement with no repercussions.
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Mate I have clips where I have looped for 15 minutes straight and STILL survivors refuse to do gens. Please stop assuming it is a skill issue because it clearly is not.
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No I agree with you, what I meant from my original post is both sides have competitive tryhards who want to win every game so losing isn't an option or just not fun for them.
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Is wanting a fun video game too much to ask for?
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Gens already take 90 seconds each, I already see randoms from streamers and in my own games not wanting to do gens because of how long they take.
As for killers what counts as winning? A 4k? Well only tryhards need a 4k every single game. ( Just like tryhard survivors need to escape every single game but that's besides the point )
Killers don't need to tunnel they just want to it's an option I'd be on the killer's side about this topic except killers are abusing that option, that and camping are the only two playstyles I've seen recently.
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You think the response to being gen rushed is bring a set of perks that only work if you lost the majority of the game? The killer can't predict what a survivor is going to do before a game starts. Say I bring a chase build and end all my chases quickly but all the gens are done in five minutes?
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I mean what would you propose to “punish” killers for tunneling???
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Yep.
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Well it's kind of the same as don't like getting slugged? Use unbreakable
Don't like aura reading perks? Use distortion
Don't like screaming? Use calm spirit, etc
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Unbreakable is only good for one self pickup, so what do you do if you're the only Survivor standing, you've used your unbreakable and the killer has no one to chase but you?
This whole discussion is just dumb when did tunneling, slugging and camping become a problem? In my opinion late 2022 early 2023, when the balancing shifted and now nobody is happy.
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Survivors should be punished for Holding-W on huge maps and not rewarded.
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What?
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Killers should be punished for doing their job. Noted.
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It's not that the killer is doing their job, it's the fact that it is too easy to tunnel right now. The same way dead hard was too easy to use. But now it makes sense why everyone hated dead hard because they wanted to tunnel back then too but that perk stopped them dead in their tracks.
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I have a few ideas, not sure if I mentioned them in here or not but I'd prefer the devs to figure a solution out that works for both sides.
At this point though, ANYTHING would be better than allowing a killer to tunnel someone because they're so bad at chases they have to camp a hook and tunnel someone.
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No killers Should be punished for Abusing the option to tunnel and camp it makes the game unplayable for survivors which in my case made me switch to killer but if everybody did that there be no survivors to go against hence no game.
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Exponential, no mither, soul Guard, etc, if you really hate being slugged
Otherwise just accept it because its actually not as bad as being hooked unless there's 2 left (in which case you should have unbreakable ready anyway since they would not have slugged until that point)
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I just don’t see how you can stop killers from chasing someone
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Did you not read the part where I said
"When did tunneling, slugging and camping become a problem?" Those are strategies!
The real issue is that killers are abusing those strategies, going against those strategies every single game is boring, not fun and not encouraging to play dead by daylight anymore unless I play as killer.
Which is all well and dandy until everybody switches to killer and there are no survivors to go against.
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