Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
BHVR gonna do anything about gen rush?
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and gutted almost all regression perks.
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2k is draw, but with 50% kill rate, 2k is not most regular outcome.
Most regular outcome is 1k.
2k doesn't change % balance. If you would want 50% kill rate, then you would need also equal number of 4k and 0k, which is not going to happen.
As I said, 1k is easy against most teams. So for to lower average kill rate you need multiple 1k as replacement for few 0k. Which would mean killer is mostly losing.
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Out of 5 possible states (0K, 1K, 2K, 3K, 4K) why would 50% kill rate (middle value) mean the most common outcome is one of the left states (1K is the one a little on left instead of 2K which is perfectly in the middle). This would mean said outcome would need to be balanced with large number of 4K's to be true.
Another thing - why is it OK for "free 1K" to be a thing? If it scews the stats so much, then help survivor team to balance it out with some basegame mechanics. Help survivors get 4 out more often. But I don't even think this is the case, because this one is actually balanced by whole survivor team loosing and last survivor still having a shot at hatch or gate.
To clarify - I don't care about distribution between escapes and kills. I just want them to be fair. If you say securing 1 kill is too easy and killers don't care for this - then let's ask devs to fix the issue and help survivors escape. But keep the target at 50% kill rate - which should be fair outcome for everyone - because 50% means for both sides you have equal chance to live/kill every survivor.
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Honestly I don't need 1k endgame camp or 3k hatch escape, game becomes better without those aspect.
Hiding should be treated with different feature.
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Stats and reality are different.
There is a simple example. Nurse has 50% kill rate, so by your standard she is most balanced killer.
If you want 4 escapes, play SWF.
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Fact that anti-camping feature is going to be disabled during endgame means they don't really mind this.
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We are literally talking here just about stats. Sure enough even those can be spoiled by uneven distribution (which is exactly nurse's problem - it's very beginner unfriendly where a lot of people that did not master her are dragging her winrate down). But ignoring said details - 50% kill rate is the only fair outcome there is. Provided you are not one of those people that consider 2K=draw same as actual killer loss (0-1K)
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Isn't it like that? 0-1K loss, 2k draw, 3-4K win? That's how MMR is defined at least.
You want to take kill rate literally to 50% without caring about context.
Then why ignore Nurse kill rate, just because it doesn't fit your narrative?
Unless you are SWF, then 0K is simply unlikely outcome. There is no way to balance this game about 50% kill rate against soloQ.
You have killers like Pig, Pinhead, or Sadako with really high kill rates. Reason is simple, Pinhead is soloQ stomper, because of his box and new players don't understand how Pig or Sadako works, so they die to their power.
So if you want to ignore bad players on Nurse, we should ignore bad players on survivors, right?
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Isn't it like that? 0-1K loss, 2k draw, 3-4K win? That's how MMR is defined at least.
Yes it is. That's my whole point. And 50% kill rate means super-average game ends in exactly 2K. Anything about it and we are talking about 2K or more (meaning mostly draws, but sometimes free wins).
Then why ignore Nurse kill rate, just because it doesn't fit your narrative?
Nurse on average is not problematic - but as I said earlier - problem is with distribution. The killer is very tilting if you didn't master it yet (dragging killrate down) and absolutely horrendously stomping everyone if you did (making it unable to play against said killer) - that's the whole point of what I said earlier "those can be spoiled by uneven distribution".
If it really comes to it that MfT has insane impact against higher tier killers (which is the case for nurse vs survivors in top tier) then there needs to be an adjustment - the same way as there actually was adjustment for nurse (which BTW in my eyes makes her now strong, but playable against - I don't feel she's problem any more. Same way as basekit blight and spirit are IMO perfectly fine and only their addons need to be looked at).
But as of now I haven't seen such stats - so I am taking into account the only tools we actually have. And that is nightlight and their usage rate which still shows lithe+sprint are better perks (at least on average) - which BTW corresponds to my experience both as killer (I have had 0 problems with my pinhead and bubba - those 2 I am playing the most these days - in fact I get more screwed over by those other exhaustions, then MfT) and survivor (I judged the perk worse then my standard balanced landing and background player - so I am not using the perk any more).
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First of all, how did we got to MFT?
MFT is stronger against M1 killers, top killers don't really care about it, that's why I don't like that perk.
Lithe will be always more used for simple reason: it's easier to use it.
How used it is, does not equal how strong it is. Simple example is WoO. It's most used perk, but it's effect is not really strong/oppressive.
Balancing with Big data was never good way. It applies for both pick rate and kill rate. It's bad to balance around data without understanding reasons behind it.
We have seen many dumb changes that were made simply because of Big data balancing.
Same for kill rate. Pig got most nerfs from all killers while being considered one of weakest killers.
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I hope they do something it's out of control now when the anniversary is on. I lost 5 games a row while trying to adept singularity and not even tunneling was enough to beat the gen rushers I face. Well 4 games ended in 2K but obviously that is losing when trying to get adept. Though on survivor myself I usually get potato teammates who struggle to do gens I quess the game just is agains't me particularly no matter which side I play.
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Half the time, it is a Survivor fault for letting a 3 gen happen; if they are too impatient or incoordination on which gens to work on without the perks to guide them; they made the terrible mistake of spreading out gens and letting the killer get away with easy 3 gen patrol route; Sometimes the map rng force it to make it happen; because it is "safe" to gens on the outside of the map then it is smart to work on center gens and spread them out. It never usually in the Killer's decision to do a three gen, unless they are a specific good at that; or they have a perk build/strategy related to preserve the three closest gens. Sometimes, that is all that killer can do; because it is the most effective way to win by kills; this way!
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Yessir
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You literally made the argument about high MMR and content creators, i just gave you my honest answer.
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Looks like I was right about Prove Thyself being too strong. It's getting nerfed next patch.
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Nothing I said is wrong, and the Prove Thyself nerf is unnecessary.
The BNP nerf, that's a much better and more impactful change. Nerfing Prove Thyself is going to do either nothing at all because it was never the reason gens went so fast, or it'd hypothetically make gens faster because people stop grouping up. Just because BHVR are doing it doesn't automatically make it a good or necessary idea, lol.
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๐ As if devs understood what's indeed strong and what is not. See last calm spirit buff or last adjustment to blight addons or last try to adjust billy addons or .... The list is very extensive.
Overall proof nerf is IMO survivor buff. The perk is super overrated and the more people will use something else, the better for survivor team (7s for last gen is not worth perk slot and you should always spread out instead of multiple people risking same gen/having nothing to loop if killer finds them)
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Honestly I could even consider BNP "nerf" as buff, because it can not be regressed anymore.
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What regression? You mean pop? Because for that one you first need to earn it via hook.
Nah. BNP nerf will absolutely have consequence. Proof on the other hand - as a survivor I am happy for that. It was very much overrated anyway. I would ideally make it 3% bonus speed only, so that nobody would even try it. That would be best for my survivor games
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Enjoy getting 3 gens popped at once then instead lol
My biggest issue is not with its speed nerf, heck it can give nothing for all I care, but the removal of the BP bonus
But yeah enjoy having multiple gens pop at once instead of just 1 at a time lol
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bro people need to stop telling us about Solo Q vs SWF.
the reality is, the game is played AND SHOULD BE BALANCED around SWF, if you play Solo Q, its on you.
the whole point is that this game is meant to reward survivors that works as a team... but right now, the "reward" is just, free wins after free wins... with almost no effort.
everything is constantly being nerfed on the killer side and after years of saying DH should be nerfed... they nerf it but then turn around and IMMEDIATELY release MFT, what the actual ...
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Sure. But killers should be all balanced around C33+alch ring blight. It's killer's choice (more then soloQ being able to just spawn a few friends) to play M1 killer instead of S-tier one. Same logic. Same free wins for killer
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the game already is lol
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Ah right. Because it's fair to win 1000 games in a row. So balanced. 100% winrate is the only acceptable result for some killer mains - even in game with huge RNG factor
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I don't know in what fantasy land one needs to be to make such a claim.
most killers have kill rates well under 60%
which means, on average, its half-and-half, so a coin toss.
but hey, its numbers, I guess those can be hard for some people, no offence.
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60% is half half ๐ and there absolutely are no blight mains with 1000 wins in a row....
Here we go again. Count my wins and make them even with other side wins. But losses are an exemption. They absolutely can't be even, because that would spoil my fun. Rather take my losses AND draws and match that with the other's side losses - because I just deserve that. Also that's fair thing and saying this absolutely does not make me entitled.
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Ah yes, stating the exceptionnal case acting like its the rule.
such a mighty argument do you present to us here /s
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Fair point - it rewards tunneling, so killers are forced to tunnel.
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Gens need to slow down faster - this discourages people from just w-keying away with all the speed, looping and 2 dozen pallet advantages survivors have. People can leave a gen and run all the way across the board while the killer is just trying to catch up - this doesn't even count obstacles!
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I never claim to be a great killer- but I have to say to go across the board, find one person and chase them to the other side, and have 2 gens done is just too fast.
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Better than having a gen pop before I find a single survivor.
Prove Thyself is very strong in the early and late stages of the game where it is very likely for survivors to be grouped together. If all survivors spawn together on a large map, they can quickly rush a gen before I even find them. This is strong since it's basically like starting the game with 4 gens. In the late stages, survivors are more likely to be grouped on the same gen since there are less total gens. There is also a risk of a 3 gen, which Prove Thyself is very important for breaking. In these scenarios, Prove Thyself gives far more gen speed than any other perk. If Prove Thyself wasn't strong, the nerf shouldn't bother you much.
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I mean, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. I'm just not going to celebrate it either, because it isn't going to matter. PT was never a problem, and nerfing it won't improve my killer games in any way.
The only impact it could have is if it makes my generators pop faster because survivors are actually spreading out, which is always better than grouping up with PT.
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Well if you think that, that's your right. As I said already - as a survivor I would be even happier if devs outright burried the perk. It's totally overrated and even the case you mentioned at the start of the game is a mistake - you should always spread out. The only good usage of the perk is for very last generator, or if indeed killer is holding his 3gen (which again should boil into killer holding his last generator - you should take those other gens if killer is not defending them). And even in this case, it's still less then 7s saved as a hypothetical maximum for 2 people. That's less slowdown then using blast mine 2x per match.
Also - last time I played bubba - the game looked to be won. 4 hooks, 5 gens to go. 2 seconds later, 4 hooks, 2gens to go. Just 2 seconds changed my perspective of I almost certainly won the game into the game is still very much on. If those survivors had proof, I would have much easier time with them. They would group and that means they would most certainly die for that once I found them. Even if they didn't, finding the group means disturbing multiple survivors.
So overall as survivor main - nerf proof even more. Make it as useless as friendly competition. Get rid of it. Burry it. It's bad for survivor team anyway even though it's popular.
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It's definitely one of the more decent perks but since the survivors could just be on different gens then I didn't mind it much
The only thing that bothers me I'd the BP removal when survivors already get on average a pitiful amount of BP..
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