Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Having no in-game voice chat is a blessing
Comments
-
The forums specific. In that case why don't we? Host a survey, that way atleast the ones who are in favor and hiding will speak up (or the opposite).
Considering how they added a profanity filter to the end game chat, it stands to reason (to us atleast) that the devs wish to migate the toxicity of chats. Other games are irrelevant as we are speaking of DBD. Random updates breaking random things is one of DBD's great mysteries~ [Ha, even the code has rng]
Yet there are other ways to bridge said gap without the voice coms. Chat wheels work just as well and voice coms don't solve the problem of teammates (more specific people swinging, doing something stupid, focusing on rift over all else, etc). Bigger fish includes health of the game, balancing maps, perks, and killers, new content (we do acknowledge coms would be included in this but we do mean new killers perks collabs and the like), etc. We will admit that the "bigger fish" are also subjective but these are more immediate and (this is to us) practical to do.
You do have a point that combing the code would indeed be a big fish, but its also not something to do in a reasonable time and not worth it (least seems so to the devs, our own thoughts on the matter vary) as currently it is still working relatively smooth. Voice coms would be a smaller fish in of itself but theyd either have to comb the code or add it in and hope nothing breaks to bad (doubt that'll happen).
Since there are other ways to bridge the gap other than voice coms its not that big of a pro and we can ignore all of the cons that come with it. See the problem with that?
0 -
I mean like I said... That wouldn't change anything about the data not being worth much...
How would you even implement such a filter to a voice chat? Besides the point where it probably ruins conversations because you have no clue what got filtered and it probably does not know which word in which language is alright and which not... Such a filter would be a horrid idea...
I would not say that a chat wheel has the potential to be as effective as a voice chat, as you re limited in what information you can share, but why not both? I would not say a chat wheel on its own would be enough though.
0 -
Actually, we feel it would be worth more as it would show that a majority would (or wouldn't) actually want and use the feature instead of semi random voices every now and again. It definitely would be worth more than the conversation here.
How? Not a clue. At the same time, BHVR DID implement a chat filter BECAUSE they didn't want to have things like death threats in their game. Filter may go Abit overboard but it does it's duty. Besides that point we feel it'd be a hilarious idea if they actually got it to work.
Not both because one would make the other effectively redundant. It's fine if you think it wouldn't, but we don't think the coms are the way to go for the game. It's just your thoughts against ours. The main point of that last bit was showing that using that specific argument is ineffective.
0 -
If it was quite close and killer could also hear it, I'd be down for a test. Imagine them shushing each other and hearing a whisper behind a wall "somebody heal me please". Though mostly I agree with op.
1 -
Sure that is true, but it is still worth nothing... Just because it is a little bit more does not suddenly make it valuable...
The chat filter is an atrocity and it is ridiculous that you cannot turn it off... This thing blocks too much and too little at the same time... That thing barely works.
It does not make the other one redundant at all... Both options have different strengths and weaknesses... Coms allow for precise information, if everyone speaks the same language and is willing to talk but is problematic with a language barrier or with people trying to abuse it. A chat wheel has by nature a limited amount of callouts bound to it and is therefore way less precise but works for everyone no matter the language...
They don't make each other redundant at all, that is fairly obvious.
0 -
That's so condescending~ You realize by that logic we're able to dismiss the entire argument of "That neglects that people might want to interact via voice sometimes, they might not mute people everyday". If it's not valuable then we're explicitly ignoring these people, which is something we went out of our way to provide an answer for. Do they matter or not? If yes, then the survey proves enough people want it or not to justify focus for action or lack of.
Yet it's what the devs want. I know the 3 of us don't want to hear more creative ways to do you know what to ourselves, you?
Then we're going to say that the wheel would both be more effective and in theme with the game. It wouldn't be separated by language, wouldn't cause nearly as much toxicity, easily understood and can be limited, and doesn't break any immersion of the game. Coms we atleast have enough sense to get through the language barriers. Hear panic? Means something bad, if away then probably being chased, if close stop and think, etc. To us having both is indeed redundant.
0 -
Do you simply not understand what a representative amount requires? If I post a poll here then only a fracture of the player base, those who are on the forums, are able to see it, and only those who check the polls in general, which is an even smaller amount of people and then also only the English speaking ones of the forum users in general... Which is why I said it would need to be a survey of BHVR so it actually reaches a representative amount of people... I'm not ignoring people's opinions, I'm just saying they are not enough to represent the community as a whole.
Just because the devs want it does not make it a good idea all of a sudden and it restricts those people who don't want or care for such a feature, which is why it is a great thing to be able to disable it, like in any other game.
But why would you limit it? If it's purpose is to bridge the gap between solo and swf, with a limitation you are still leaving a gap open? Unless you don't want to fully close it calling it redundant is a little bit off. No offense but what immersion is left after a few hundred hours?
0 -
And yet was it not you who wished for people to not be ignored? Was it not you making an argument for those few who wanted whom we don't know about? The ones who we'd have to acknowledge instead of maybe the 5 same people we see? Adding to that the one on the forum would be a good start to get the BHVR to start and get the ball rolling. The forum users are more likely to be the ones to stay playing longer and BHVR does look here. And last you never specified anything about having BHVR doing it till just now.
And yet it's the devs making decisions. Unless you get hired and do the changes you want yourself, the devs are making the rules for this playground. Personally, we feel restriction in the amount of toxic chat is a good thing. We got tired of impotent threats every 5th survivor made to someone. Not even at us, to whatever their ire was at.
1 because of the aforementioned cons. 2 and this is admittedly a personal reason, is because even with all the info at their fingers people can still be dumb so we'd rather them get the bare minimum of what they "need" and avoid as many cons as we can. 3 because currently coms are outside the game. It's like adding cards to a deck from outside. It does give an advantage but it's from an outside source.
We still have immersion during good games. We do admit that people are trying REALLY damn hard to kill that though.
1 -
When I said "they would need to do a survey" I thought it to be fairly obvious, especially since I called it survey which is the term BHVR uses and not poll what it is called on the forums for example. And also in the post before you talked about BHVR as "them" so to me it was fairly obvious they were meant... But sure I guess I could have been more explicit. Also there is a difference between ignoring it when people constantly demand stuff and actually doing exactly what they want... Which is why I said they should do a survey to figure out what is wanted.
Are you pretending mute is not function? Like if someone is toxic just mute them, it is really not that big off a deal... And if somebody really wants to be toxic they can work around a filter as useless as this one... It is just annoying to have to work around it, but it does not really prevent anything.
What has the outside thing to do with anything? It is an advantage, from where you get it does not really matter.
Good for you with the immersion I guess? No clue how you made it but OK, I didn't feel any immersion after like 100h in this game but alright ^^
0 -
We've seen people say one thing and mean something different. Hell there's a post in general chat that exemplifies this. Nothing is obvious here which is why we usually ask for details (admittedly we did fail in this instance). We're assuming you're saying ignoring is different from listening which is different from doing correct? (Your wording is odd here to us) Cause at this point we think we lost something in communication here as to where this pops up so we'd like clarification before we say something smart or stupid.
The mute function leads again back to the points and the fact alot of people are going to use mute to the point of "why did we bother?". We went over that. And that's more work for them, which atleast deters some in the "not worth the effort".
Kinda does as thing in game are balanced (or attempted to be) around the things in game. Think kindred was balanced with discord in mind? Or the Scourge hooks? Maps? We might be missing something, but as far as we've glanced we don't know something that's balanced with outside cons in mind. Then if we go the extreme route, cheaters have an advantage from outside by using whatever to do what they do. Doesn't matter though.
Cause we don't take the game seriously. We enjoy having actual fun and we find it here. But to each their own.
1 -
The difference is that if this feature got added the whole player base has access to it and can decide whether or not to use it, however we in this post or in the forum are only a small part of the player base, so to be sure what exactly the community wants BHVR would need to get the opinion of the entire community and not just the forum users. I was refering to everyone in the game that might want such a feature and not just people on the forums by saying you should not ignore your community. However if it is just a small part of the community, like a few people on the forums then you could that, even though I would prefer it if they made surveys more often about what features the community wants and what is actually possible or not, depending on the limitations of the game.
Just because you are listening to your community and perhaps asking them things does not mean you will go all the way yes. But my point went more for the numbers in the sense of the amount of people... Like community as a whole > forum users in total > English speaking forum users > people in this thread.
I hope that made it more clear? Otherwise just tell me and I will try again :)
Sure technically that's a way to see it... But just because it is outside of the game does not make it not exist or disappear... Like there is this saying in the jurisdiction "It cannot exist if it isn't allowed", maybe works better in my native language but what it means is that just because something is forbidden does not mean it will not happen and we need to take that into account, using discord is not even forbidden. The point however is that it is obviously a thing that is happening and just because we don't have it inside of the game does not mean we can ignore it or not take it into account... Based on this everyone should have the same tools. I wouldn't bring cheaters into the comparison, as that is explicitly forbidden, however voice coms a thing that is allowed and therefore needs to be taken into account, because everything else is just closing your eyes in front of reality... Playing ostrich to say: If I cannot see it, it is not there. I think it would bring many advantages because you would have a clearer set of tools everyone has and you can balance around that: adjust maps, perks, killers and what not and you would not have things anymore that just by design put a disadvantage on solo players who don't have access to voice coms.
I mean that's fair but fun is subjective, and interacting with your teammates in voice chat or text chat can be also a fun experience... Sitting in front of a motor and holding m1 for 5 min is not really fun...
0 -
Yes, much better thank you. To see what the community wants we need to start somewhere and here is a pretty good spot. Start here, attract attention, branch out. Least that way the devs will atleast attempt to see more than the forum. Should it turn out that a majority wish for voice coms go for it, but we wish to see something more meaningful than handful of comments. If a majority wish it, then go for it, we'll go along and try it but will also say "I told you so" faster than an angel says "amen". As an aside, we're (or rather one of us is) relatively sure that one of their feedback surveys asked about a voice com at one point. We'll try to see if we can dig it out later, if we can't then ohh well it doesn't exist.
Most effectively do have the same tools though. We won't say everyone cause we don't know everyone, but most can access some form of chatroom outside the game should they really wish. We admittedly think we might be sounding insensitive so apologies to anyone reading this that we've offended. The "clearer tools" argument falls flat for us. When we joined we didn't have most the tools currently here. Sure we had some broken things but we had to get good to use them effectively. What we see now, with tools we'd have loved back then, is players playing poorer. People need to adapt to the tools given and learn to use them, but that's on us for thinking so. Back more to the point, as you said the devs can rebalance around it but that's also more work going into making voice coms work than other things or something simpler like said chat wheel which would overall be easier to integrate.
Another aside, currently the only thing that voice coms bridges (that we can think of) who and is where the killer is, where specific totems are, calling where your general location is, and quickly coordinating in pregame lobby and in game. We absolutely detest that first one for personal reasons but it's a valid point for who it is, the where can be solved with the wheel depending on how it works. The second one can also be solved with a wheel depending on how it works. Third valid but same as the first. The fourth is half valid. The pregame lobby has a chat at the start for coordination but nothing in game, yet it can also be solved via wheel.
Again, to each their own for fun. For an example of "interacting with your teammates in voice chat or text chat can also be a fun experience..." We look towards everyone's common point of reference TCM. For our experience, we'll happily admit it was ok for the first 3 or so days... guess what happened after. We don't deny it can be a good time [it's even one of the listed pros] but it can also be flipped [also on the con list] and we're tired of flipping coins.
1 -
I mean sure everyone can try to type in chat and send a discord link for the others to join, but that is way to inconvenient to be reliable, it is far easier if it is just implemented. Some stuff falls indeed under the category skill issue, but not all and there are just some things you cannot play around without coms or some other form of information exchange.
Oh there is so much more stuff you can communicate via voice that is not possible with a chat wheel or different tool... When you are about to get 3 genned, which pallets have been used, certain perks the killer uses, and so on and so forth, I could come up with dozens of things, I will say that many are quite situational but not really rare if you know what I mean.
Well sometimes you just get unlucky with the teammates I guess ^^
0 -
...thinkin you literally just skipped over each reply saying how much work it would be to implement for BHVR. Or are just trying to troll us at this point. We cant tell...in the spirit of thinking you just skipped it, no it would be harder overall for BHVR to implement a com system. Is it more convenient for the players? sure. Easier is flat out wrong, especially if its only Discord taken into account. Your gonna need to tell us which "things you cannot play around without coms or some other form of information exchange" your referring to as most meaningful things have either been addressed in our mind. Keep in mind what we think as necessary is unlikely to be the same as yours.
We'll acknowledge which pallets have been used and certain perks the killer uses but you can defiantly warn survivors about gens with a wheel (we've done it without one). We do not as depending on how the wheel works, it can indeed work just as well as coms, for better or worse. All it would take is a smidgen more thought than a com.
indeed
Coms would take lota skill and intelligence outta the game wouldn't it? Now that we're thinkin about it...
1 -
I don't think time and for the devs is a valid argument, simply because balancing the game costs always time and effort, same as introducing new things to it, however that is basically their job and if we took that into account we could always deny things just because of that.
That's the thing let's say an ordinary chat wheel has like 10-15 different callous, therefore you are very limited in what you can and cannot put on it... Take a hit please, I go unhook, I don't go unhook, beware 3 Gen and what not so all rather general statements, but as soon as it becomes more specific the system lacks... Calling out perks, or where the killer has trapped something for example. Especially killer specific callouts are probably impossible due to the nature of the chat wheel.
0 -
Thing is we do. Only so many people can focus on so many things. Time and effort on something they don't want to work on vs time and effort on something they do want to work on. Not saying that we know what they do or don't want but that's the logic of it. Regardless of that, your going to tell us it's more work to type in chat and join a discord server than integrating a voice com into this game? No. Flat no. You have a better chance of all the toxicity in every single video game going away than convincing us of that.
Cool, cause most those ones don't need called out and can be solved via caution, thinking, or in the case of who the killer is maybe 30ish seconds unless they camp an area. We want people to use more skill and brains, not less by relying on things and the best way for that is to not have those things to begin with. Add to that how will the wheel work. Does it send a ping with it? Is it only on the hud? We've seen wheels that work nearly as well as coms for practical purposes, just not as "colorful" as voices can be. You also brought up another con for us. People spamming the wheel, which if was coms would be people screaming "help me" over and over which would probably lead to more mutes which then comes full circle.
1 -
It is more convenient for the survivors to just talk instead of inviting people to discord ofc. You cannot really weight the amount of time and resources it costs the devs to do something compared to a player having to do something, otherwise quality of life changes would never be a thing...
I have to fully disagree on that, the developers time is never an argument to say something should not be implemented, even if it is a Dec team working so slow that it took them years to give re-introduce the option to disable anti aliasing...
People using their brain and skill does not close the gap between solo and swf though... You cannot use this as an argument, as you are basically negating the need to close the gap by saying so. Giving survivors communications makes it easier for them to coordinate and share information, sure they don't need to pay attention as closely anymore because the team can share stuff, I don't see an issue with that whatsoever. If you want to close that gap then it is basically your goal that you can rely on your team more to figure stuff out about what is happening in the match.
However if you disagree on a fundamental level why that gap needs to be closed and why this is not a bad thing to do, then I don't really see a point in continuing to argue about it. You can be the best player in the world, but if the game limits what information you can share with your teammates you will still be at a disadvantage compared to players who are not limited in that way, and that is just a gap that cannot be closed without giving both the same tools to work with, some things just cannot be evened out no matter how skilled you are.
0 -
See, convenient doesn't equal easy. It's going to be hard to do, it'll probably break something which then needs more attention, and all that for something that's not strictly needed and where some don't wish it (yes there are some for it we know). If the devs don't think it's a high priority, it's not getting attention. If you get the devs to pay attention then maybe they'll work on it (remember back to yon survey?)
You can disagree as you want, but that's our thoughts on it as we think they should be working on other things. Especially because it's so slow. Why do you think that is?
You'd be surprised how much playing well or smart can close a lot of the gap. And of course we can use it as an argument, you saying we can't don't mean a thing to us. Certain details can't be covered but a majority can. At the very least the ones you gave us can be. You not seeing any issues with that is just another difference in opinion between us. Figure out things or being straight up told things? There's a difference.
We don't disagree on the gap needing closed more. We disagree that adding voice coms is the way to go and have given pros, cons, personal reasons, and logical reasons. Would you like to hear a story of how 4 solos beat a face camping bubba with a key and hatch?
1 -
It is still not an argument to say that the solution to a problem is hard to do... Figure it out then, in what job does it work to say oh Boss sorry this is hard I cannot do it, especially when basically any other game managed to do it...
I don't know why they are so slow, especially on such a minor thing like basic options, despite calling it a top priority when they announced they accidentally removed it. Probably lack of manpower or problems with the spaghetti code? Guess since stuff constantly breaks it is really rough to work around it without breaking something again.
That's a weird story? If that went on with a 4 man out then the Bubba is bad, in that scenario you can basically always secure a 2k unless you really mess up. if it happened before the key rework it should be somewhat possible to get a 3 man out because noed didn't came into account by then? Maybe? Don't know unhooking against a facecamping bubba is quite literally impossible without trading.
I don't think it can close the majority and I think a lot of minor situational scenarios still put a huge disadvantage on people without cons, as they add up.
See if we assume that we have two 4 men groups of players, both have equal skill, both have the same knowledge and brain power... One has coms the other one does not. Then there is no notable difference that can be closed by brain or skill as they are the same, however they still have a gap in information and coordination that cannot be closed without additional tools. This is the point of me saying there is a gap that cannot be closed... Sure if you are a good player you can somewhat close the gap between your group of better players compared to the swf with worse players but coms, however if the player skills are equal it does not work.
It is a gap in information and information exchange and as such it cannot be closed by the tools you currently have. I cannot make it simpler than that, there is no agree or disagree on that, it is what it is. If you have players of equal skill they will be at a disadvantage without coms compared to the other team with coms. Sure you can figure out a way to communicate via the 3 actions you can do (point, wink and crouch) but not only does it take some time, it is also unreliable in delivering information. Without coms you have no reliable way to bridge this information gap, and I really don't see a way you could argue otherwise.
0 -
Think your missing a point. Let's say you have 2 projects and a deadline to finish one. The first project is known to be popular, the other is a relatively unknown. You got enough time and energy to finish one or the other, which do you choose? Sure BHVR probably can eventually figure it out, but that's taking the focus off other things so even if they wanted to, it's gonna be a long while and other things will be put on the back burner while that cooks.
And you wish to take some of that manpower they have and turn it towards voice coms and combing the code. They're slow because it's not easy. Hence the point above.
Yes, it was when bubba was recently released. No he wasn't bad. We'll take it as a no story.
We do think it can and from our experience atleast those minor situations don't add to a huge disadvantage. Won't deny its there, but it's not extreme.
Reading the last 2 paragraphs, first is yes, it can work because people can know what to do and when without being told (and have done so). Second and more to the point, if that is the only gap then we'll happily accept that. What we want is to close the gap as much as possible but without chats especially since we've seen more cons than pros. BHVR can add many things that give enough information (icons for who had deliverance, a way for the in-game survivors to call out, things like so) without having someone else explicitly tell you to do something. A small margin of error would exists, and if it's only the small things then acceptable parameters to us. 3rd, it's not fully reliable anyway as there's a few things that make it unreliable (the mute feature, language barriers, and human behavior).
4 ...weren't we supposed to bridge the gap for solos? Lets turn those 4man groups into multiple groups of 4 solo players. Everyone is of equal skill and intelligence. Group 1 using coms and everything is perfect. Group 2 not using coms and everything goes as predicted. Group 3 using coms but language barriers get everyone confused. Group 4 half are muted and 2 are using coms. Group 5 same as group 4 but one of the coms people says something to offend the other and that one changes how they play accordingly. We can keep going but while there are a few more good ones, there's probably one bad one per.
[Apologies if we're raving a bit, might need to cool off.]
0 -
That is about priorities a game developer has to set, it has nothing to with whether or not something should be added.
Even when Bubba was not yet reworked he could even 99% his saw forever and still get a trade 100% of the time.
Sure generally they can, but not in every situations, and groups can easily crumble when stuff goes sideways and they are missing information on what is happening.
I mean sure nothing is fully reliable in that but still way more than what you currently have to inform your mate about something.
I don't really see how it matter for the example whether those 4 exact players know each other or not? Unless of course you want to tell me they Morse code stuff to each other with teabagging or have some other weird form of communication.
I don't think the language barrier will confuse people... They should quickly realiser the other person does not understand them, as they are replying in a language that is not theirs and that they don't understand, so I don't think there is any harm in that case.
I don't think there is a 50 50 chance to get a toxic person that does nothing but rage and insult you or a normal human being... Otherwise this community would be the mos eisley cantina...
0 -
We're back and have cookies 🍪
Their priorities are why it's shouldn't be focused on now. Remember bigger fish to fry? The devs are choosing what's a big fish or not.
Hey, you didn't want to hear the story, you can rationalize it all you want, but it did happen.
Currently have? Yep. Currently need? Nope. Atleast when we get actual teammates. If a group of randoms can function without, then it's not needed. We can argue about wanted till the moon explodes.
Cause 4 people who know each other can coordinate better than 4 strangers on coms. And again the presumed goal was helping solos.
Wana hear the story of me and a friend getting invited to a group who only spoke Spanish? Or where we 3 invited a person to our group and didn't know what language they spoke? The short of it is, if they're listening, they're going to try and understand, and skipping ahead Abit that leads to confusion.
We don't know what a "mos eisley" cantina is but if it translates to "septic wasteland" then we envy the people you get. Between the 3 of us half the ones who say anything other than "gg" will attempt to shame us, rage at something (us, teammates, killer, perks map, we think we've seen almost everything but the anti 3 gen system currently), call us something very inappropriate (though occasionally creative), wish death upon us (this is mercifully more rare nowadays) or loved ones, wish something horrible on us or loved ones, rage like a child (spamming chat with childish insults) and this is simply the end game chat. And for each of those ones there's been a nice one too. Saying it's a coin flip might technically be inaccurate, but from what we've seen it's accurate enough.
1 -
But what is the point then in arguing about what is a good idea? Sure if we take into account what they will or won't do we can just say "Amen" to whatever they come up with in the end.
Not doubting that it did happen, but like I said, if the guy had any clue what he was doing then there is no way unless he majorly messed up...
I cannot believe I found the one person that does not know Star Wars ^^ The Mos Eisles Cantina is largely known as the hive of scum and villainy ^^ So it was just a comparison. I have no clue how you ended up with only such people? I get like 1 every 25-30 games of that kind...
0 -
The point is to convince people that it's a good idea. Or in our case a bad one. Make this the bigger fish to everyone, but the ones who you need to convince the most are the devs.
It's only impossible till it happens. He was doing well, everyone but 1 on death hook on pretty sure the disturbed ward.
Wait that's the cantina's name? None of us ever really remembered the name and kept calling it "the cantina". Go figure. We ended up with them with our luck. Granted it's only a coin flip for the talkative ones but the point stands.
0 -
I meanmean it is only impossible if the guys knows what he is doing, if he does not know that, then ofc it is possible ^^
Yeah well you learn something new every day ^^ Calling the cantina a hive of scum and villainy has basically become a meme over time.
1 -
People are always gonna have bad experiences that's the point of a mute option but people will also have good experiences and make friends in the game they love. VoIP is easy to add so many games have it, its 2024 and most would welcome it. if you dont wanna VC just disable it but those of us that do will keep it on. ;)
0 -
And those that feel like they're missing out on a feature or don't want to have to disable a feature so they don't have to listen to racial and other slurs will just move on to another game.
Or, instead, anybody who wants voice chat can use Discord instead of saying other people should have to listen to slurs.
0 -
I am here to agree. No in-game voice chat is good.
1. Silent communication is fun, and refreshing - I don't want to have to communicate, I just wanna play solo have fun. introvert happy :)
2. Keeps it immersive
3. No bad mics
4. No hearing rude people
5. No difficulty with language barriers
6. If someone wants to play as a SWF, they can just join an LFG DBD discord
I've played enough games with voice chat to be grateful that dbd doesn't have it1 -
Issue is voice chat in DBD would basically shutdown any other soloQ improvement. I would prefer something that majority of players are going to use for better games than just for toxic reasons.
0
