Slugging for 4k
Can we add a force bleed out option between the last two survivors if the killer is slugging for a 4k. I get people want to win and what not but I’d rather not have my time wasted and move onto my next match because some sweaty killer absolutely needs the 4k and doesn’t want to risk a hatch escape…
Comments
-
Yeah I find slugging for 4k really irritating so I would like an option like this or just remove the hatch completely. Though the latter will never happen so I would like to be able to concede and move on to the next match rather than potentially spend 4 minutes on the ground stuck in a match that is over.
The hatch mechanic is the underlying problem though... but I will make it clear when I play killer I never slug for the 4k unless they were very toxic and I feel I don't want anyone to get out (very rare).
I don't really blame the killer but at times I do think to myself 'do you have nothing better to do pal?' when they waste so much of their and my time looking for that last person
4 -
what about that last person hiding? why not ask if they have anything better to do? they will literally hide for hours.
12 -
You're going to be told you should just throw yourself at the killer because the killer should have full control over your gameplay experience.
In reality you are correct that 4k slugging needs to be addressed but don't hold your breath for support from this forum or the devs.
17 -
That’s why I said option a survivor isn’t gonna wanna give a rat a chance for hatch either if they haven’t done anything all match
0 -
I mean the killer doesn’t want the last survivor to get a free pity escape for no reason when he won and that last survivor wants his chance at the free pity escape.
They both equally could choose to end the match earlier if they wanted so I don’t see why it’s more focused negatively towards the killer when they are both at fault.
At least the killer has the stance that he’s basically won the game since they’re at that point to begin with meaning they’re doing it because they feel like they’ve earned the 4K. While the survivor hasn’t earned it since they’ve essentially lost, it’s a pity win for them. I’d be more likely to blame the last survivor hiding and waiting for the hatch than I would the killer.
If the end game was less of a “I won but I’m still forced to play a 50/50 of whether I get the 4K I earned” you’d see less killers slug like that. This is why I don’t mind getting slugged in this scenario, the killer doing it makes sense. Imagine if we 4 escaped as survivors with the killer getting zero hooks but right as the last survivor is running out he’s forced to flip a coin of whether he dies and the killer gets a free kill just..because. That sounds silly right? That’s what hatch is.
11 -
If you’re that concerned over it being a hatch offering and it won’t be a 50/50 if you’re so worried about a single hatch escape which isn’t guaranteed you care fat too much for the game the one extra kill quite literally isn’t doing anything for you since a 3K is a win anyway
1 -
Bring not being*
0 -
I'm really not sure why the devs haven't gone back to this issue. Basekit unbreakable fail and they decided to just move on to other things.
3 -
There are Tome Challenges that literally require a 4K as well. That often is lost in these conversations.
6 -
What are they meant to do? Run into your Ultimate Weapon or do all the gens..?
0 -
Hatch offering close hatch get 4K challenge done and realistically and respectfully speaking as well why should I have to lay on the floor for a challenge when if I get caught doing a challenge half the time a killer wouldn’t care either 🤔
2 -
Generally aren’t many hatch offerings so it’s usually a 50/50. You ignored most of my points though. I could just as easily say the fourth survivor cares far too much for that one game and that escape, see how that goes both ways?
5 -
My whole point though is that if I’m being slugged I don’t want to wait until I bleed out to get to my next match just because the killer wants a 4k though so you completely ignored my point and assumed that I put myself in the shoes of the last survivor wanting hatch
1 -
you missed the point, the point was looking at the killer weird for slugging to find the last person when the last person will sit forever hiding just for a hatch escape and not look at that weird isnt a fair take. If its not that serious why do players continue to hide even when the killer is slugging for the 4k? if its "not that serious" the reality is both sides take it serious.
5 -
No, I definitely didn't miss the point you were making. I'm asking you what survivors are meant to do when killers are slugging for the 4k which is what this discussion is about, so let's not deflect.
0 -
absolutely against it. You are talking about time ( or no time ingame ) and playing a computer game. That is so counterproductive
0 -
At this point, if killers really NEED that 4k because hatch is unfair, requires 0 skill or their families have being kidnapped and their lives depend on that 4k...can we have a give up button that let us move to the next match while we are replaced by a bot?? So they can still have that absolutely necessary 4k?
That would let them play like now but at least ppl wouldn't have to wait 3 years while bleeding out.
1 -
I didn't ignore your point at all. If you read back I actually answered it quite thoroughly. “Just because the killer wants a 4K” is a wrong statement. He didn’t want a 4K, he earned the 4K. Also, why did you choose to say that instead of “Just because the other survivor wants a free escape”? Why do you default to blaming the killer? If anything the other survivor would be more at fault.
However realistically the most at fault is neither of them as the hatch is bad in how it’s designed. Those players are just playing the way the game tells them to if they want to win. IE push for game design changes, not blaming the killer is my point.
6 -
What about staying on topic? You're quick to try and derail threads if it's anything anti-killer. Move along please.
1 -
It's annoying, which is why I rarely do it. What are you thinking, though, with "force bleed out?" I don't quite understand the idea. Do you mean a way that a slugged survivor can kill themselves? In that case, the killer would still need credit for the kill, or this could be abused by toxic survivors, particularly sabo squads, given that slugging is a big counterplay to sabo squads. Currently, bleed outs don't count as kills, because BHVR doesn't want to incentivize bleed outs for killer.
I won't claim to understand killers who slug for the 4K, but it is a loophole to get around the hatch game.
I think the grading system might be a large part of it. Killer's get often get all red emblems for a 4K. Contrarily, killers can get a 3K and barely pip at all. It's a screwed up system, so changing how it works might help.
The game should generally emphasize more that a 3K is the killer's goal and is enough to be counted as a win. Too many people still consider a 4K to be their win condition. I pity them, honestly, because getting a 4K often comes down to luck.
0 -
Buddy I work a shift that takes up my entire day since the rest of that time will have to go to sleeping preparing for my next shift, I don’t see myself in the wrong for wanting to move onto my next match but can’t because a killer wants to leave me on the floor so he can look for the last survivor. I’m not sorry for not wanting to be held hostage in my free time when trying to play a game I enjoy 😐
2 -
But you didn’t earn a 4K. If you didn’t kill the last survivor you didn’t earn a 4K. Hatch exists because this is an assym game and survivors need an incentive to play through the end. Other assym games don’t have a hatch but contain similar mechanics. None of them have it where if you defeat 3/4 of the opposing players you’ve won so the 4th is just served to you on a platter. That sounds silly.
3 -
Except this point doesn’t work unless the final mechanic to determine if it’s a 3 or 4K is a factor of skill. DBDs difference is just a 50/50 who runs into it first. You’re gonna tell me the 4K wasn't earned because the killer lost the rng of walking into the hatch first or who it spawned in front of, really?
As far as the component of the game that is determined by skill and your choices if you get down to a hatch play the killer earned the 4K because the survivors lost to be at that point in the first place.
3 -
There is a difference between winning in game and winning by domination.
I played against sabo squad, hooks denied. But then I was able to slug all of them. I already win (by dominating) at that point. I dont need to kill them.
hatch escaping is already a win for me (both dominating and in game rule with 3K). I dont get why should I need to make my MMR gained by double. Winning “harder” gives you nothing.
3 -
I don’t think there needs to be a distinguish between win and dominate. 3k with a hatch is a win and so is a 4K. Phrasing it as you are tries to make someone feel bad for playing the game as intended and going for a 4K.
My points were simply illustrating that the killer shouldn’t be the one solely blamed for slugging to get a 4K and also that if the game got to the point of a hatch escape being a factor that I would view that as the killer having “earned a 4K”, as at that point the only difference between 3 and 4K is a coin flip.
So the difference between win and dominating. If the killer got zero hooks and all 4 survivors are running out should we coin flip if the last survivor just gets auto placed on a hook as he runs out? I mean like you said the survivors still “won”, why the need to dominate? Why not give the killer a chance for a little since they already won.
4 -
Defending the hook to secure 1 kill is probably the close situation to the hatch (not exact the same by mechanic). But with the right play, its possible for killer to get from 1K to 2-3K. Something that survivors are not able to do. 2 roles are not the same so you cant bring the flip coin of hatch mechanic and apply exact the same to the 4th survivor to flip coin to gate escape.
Im sure other 2 death survivors and the hatch escape one dont complain about the slugging. Its the slugged survivor wasting 4min doing nothing, this does not affect me since I can tab out and draw, along with I hope that 4K gains the killer's MMR to play against an "equal try that hard to win team".
Btw, I checked my 50 matches challenge as Myers, the hatch case happened in 29 matches, but hatch escaping were only 6 of them. So it is not 50/50. Killers have higher speed, and not in hiding so searching for hatch is probably on Killers' favor.
Im up for removing the hatch though. Increase the killrate by over 12% because there is no pity escape means nerf to killers. Can you image all the buff killers got for the last 2 years to only gain kill rate by 8%. Image the nerf they got to drop the kill rate by 12%.
1 -
I don't mind killers playing for the 4k if thats what they want to do but i've seen so many instances where they ended up with a 3k regardless or even a 2k (as in 2 hook kills & a bleed out)
A lot of killers say you don't deserve hatch or its unfair with a 50 /50. Point taken (disagreed but taken)
But heres what happens killer slugs 3rd survivor, 4th survivor hides (or stupidly goes for a pick up like me!) 3rd survivor eventually bleeds out or gets hooked, & oh look back to the 50 / 50 you slugged to avoid in the first place!
If you slug me then fine have at it but I will crawl in any direction far away from my teammate so killer either follows me & never finds them anyway leading to the 50 / 50 they didn't want or killer doesn't follow me I bleed out regardless if they find the last survivor or not therefore still didn't get to kill everyone on hook (some will consider a bleed out a kill of course)
What I won't ever do is just lie on the ground for 4 minutes listening to damn crows caw. Thats not petty hook me or i'll find something to do! Especially satisfying when I crawl away & into the hatch of course!
5 -
People can feel free to call me petty for crawling away, but I'm still going to do it too. After recovering for BP, it's all a slugged survivor can do. Also, if survivors who crawl away are petty, then what are killers who slug for the 4K? A 3K + Hatch is just as much of a win as a 4K, except that 2 people got a favorable result instead of 1.
3 -
Some challenges and adepts require a 4K. Sometimes people are actually doing it for a reason.
And yes, crawling to hide is still petty, since you don't get anything for doing it. All you do is take something away from the killer, who beat you. Slugging for the 4th isn't petty because they get extra BP/emblems/ MMR if they succeed.
3 -
Survivors do actually get something for crawling away, because XP for survivors is based on how long they survive, and so is the "Unbreakable" emblem. Besides, the killer usually finds me anyway, and I often find survivors who crawl away as well. Full bleed outs from crawling away are extremely rare in my experience.
Crawling to hide can actually accomplish something, as it makes the killer second guess slugging for the 4K.
I considered adding this in my original post, but I also think that killer adepts should be made 3Ks because 4Ks are often random. Even with slugging for the 4K, the last survivor could still get the Hatch. It would make killer adepts, which are already quite difficult and would remain quite difficult, a little more equitable with survivor adepts, which just require you to get an escape. More people might try for killer adepts if this change was made, including me.
2 -
not until hatch is removed
1 -
Yeah a miniscule amount of xp means nothing if you were going to bleed out regardless, so I don't think that necessarily counts as something gained. Also Unbreakable emblem has pretty short milestones, with the longest being 9 minutes. Are you going to claim to keep track of exactly how long the match is, and that your time crawling into a bush in a corner puts you just over that threshold?
I do agree about adepts and challenges being reduced to a 3K though. That would fix a lot of problems people have with the slug/hatch issue on both sides.
3 -
Ill go with this as long as you have 3 or 4 exit gates.
0 -
No, I don't time my matches. I mainly crawl away because it's something to do. I don't really think I'm going to bleed out and rob the killer of a kill or anything. Usually, I crawl to the edge because I hope I could wriggle out and run to the hatch, or I crawl to an area where the hatch could spawn. I have, very rarely, gotten out because I crawled away.
I believe that all of the benefits killers get, MMR, BP, and emblems, should be tuned to favor 3Ks over 4Ks, because they feel healthier and lead to quicker match ends. I've sacrificed most of my potential 4Ks to intentionally carry the last survivor to the hatch because I enjoy having that positive interaction with the survivor player.
I don't think that killers who 4K are toxic or do it maliciously. I just think the strategy is annoying, which is why I avoid it. When I do it, though, I do feel like I'm being kind of annoying because I'm extending the match while all survivors can do is crawl around. The main time where I have slugged for the 4K was to get my 1 killer adept (Xenomorph).
I'm not against slugging as as a strategy, either, but I do expect survivors who get slugged in my games to crawl away.
0 -
3k and 4k are treated the same unless there are survivors who bagging killers or flashlight clicks on the hatches. Please blame them for not allowing 3k.
0 -
🤝 not more gates but their spawns definitely could use some fixing. both gates on the same side of arp or suffo is only okay because of hatch.
1 -
So, if the killer tunnels out the first survivor at 5 gens, the killer already won. Why not let the match just end with that first kill then?
0 -
Adept requires me to kill everyone. So no.
3 -
Firstly, that doesn’t mean the killer already won.
Secondly, if one survivor is already out with 5 gens still up then those survivors probably need their mmr lowered because that isn’t happening unless they are significantly outclassed in skill.
4 -
No not really all I have to do is tunnel and I can end most games by 4 or 5 gens.
0 -
Last I checked it isn’t an absolute necessity to slug someone out to get a 4k 😃
1 -
I dont feel this needs to be addressed. Survivors can hide all game and waste the killers time but the killer slugs one person for a 4K and it’s an issue? I don’t agree.
if survivors were really concerned deeply about their time being wasted they would be sitting around at end game until the timer runs up waiting to get their bags in.
So with that said, let killers get their 4K IF they so choose to. Besides some challenges require it. Are we going to rework those too?
6 -
Sometimes it is yes, when you have a challenge to complete that says “Eliminate 4 survivors in a single trial”
2 -
They should address this when they address hiding survivors for 30 mins into a match just locker hopping, but you’re right. Don’t hold your breath.
2 -
If the killer wants to get kill all 4 survivors, they should be able to. Period. Who cares how much they care or if they don’t. They paid for the game too. It’s THEIR game too.
4 -
“What are survivors meant to do when killers are slugging for the 4K”
it’s simple. You bleed out while recovering. If you don’t want that to happen, bring perks that get you up or don’t go down. It would also be a good option to see how you could’ve played things better against that killer.
3 -
The "slug a survivor and try to find the last one standing for the 4 K" strategy can feel annoying from time to time, but let's not forget adept's challenge and some others.
Also I don't like restrictive rules, I think this kind of gameplay is not toxic. It is acceptable.
IMO the "give up" feature will just guarantee a free hatch escape for SWF and even some solo Q games(hatch offering + instant give up to give it).
My suggestion : add a 30 seconds "grace period" before the slugged survivor can kill themself. So killer can contest hatch in case of the presence of a hatch offering.
Sidenote : Some killers don't want to give a free hatch to a stealthy/toxic survivor. I don't blame them, I wish my stealthy useless teammate dies as well, otherwise their playstyle wouldn't be discouraged for further games.
After all, when the last survivor standing hides in a locker, they actively participate to this slow/boring end game.
The problem I have with those topics is that it always seems to be the killer's responsability.
Even if killer is the power role, survivors have a big impact as well.
2 -
Okay so just chill there for four minutes whilst the killer is camping you (probably humping as well) or setting up a trash ambush to get their 'deserved' 4k. Got it.
What if you're not the one getting slugged and you know they are setting up an ambush? Run into the killer's arms because survivors don't deserve hatch?
The "don't go down" advice is pretty funny, thanks for the chuckle.
0 -
It’s the killers objective to kill all 4 survivors. As a….wait for it…..Killer!
So yes, bleed out and wait, or like I said, improve your looping, bring perks that help you get up.
It’s something you have to deal with. It’s part of DBD.
2 -
Then you’re playing against bad survivors. Very bad survivors.
5
