Okay new Twins update is pretty good
I think we need to give devs credit where credit is due.
Twins changes are pretty cool and also quite a big buff. But most importantly than just buff, they feel much better to play and that's big deal.
I think I will be playing Twins more thanks to this update. They feel less clunky, they feel faster, less cooldowns, less limitations. Very good!
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Twins was always a strong killer before this update, but now they feel more accessible. I would expect a lot more people to play them now
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Are they less buggy though?
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I didn't notice any bugs yet, but I tested just very little.
But my gosh the cooldown reducations and other QoL buffs feels rly good.
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I think we need to give devs credit where credit is due.
It took two years for a rework that was scrapped and ended in exclusively QOL buffs for the character. Two. Years.
It did not need to take two years.
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Question is: will Victor still die mid air for no reason whatsoever?
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That great to hear. I figure the QoL change they kept would make them feel little better. It just sucks it took two years and a failed reowrk to get these changes. I may try them but honestly I never really liked twins. They dont have any skins I like and I dont really like their designs or playstyle. I still try them out tho since there is nothing else to do in the game right now….
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It looked disappointing on paper but after testing they kept in a few things not mentioned. The faster Victor recovery after a down and the recalling of Victor after attached much sooner. These feel amazing. Those were two of the big things making her feel bad to play. Last remaining feel bad is just the walk to pick up. She overall feels much smoother and less clunky to play which was what she needed. She's more punishing if you play bad with the longer Victor respawn cooldown but more rewarding if you play well and land your hits, as they should be. I think they're going to be much more popular now.
My only sadness is not getting the addon changes. I was excited for Weighted Rattle. Now it's basically just always auto default to Victor movespeed with throwing a Spinning Top in if you see lots of items. That's about it. Very little addon diversity with most of them being very bad. They need a full addon pass still.
Post edited by Blueberry on2 -
Twins are definitely S tier material with these changes.
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This is great news. And to think they probably could have done these changes two years ago instead of trying to reinvent them into that PTB mess.
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Is it finally time for casual survivor players to realize how insufferable this killer is to go against when played half decently?
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I was enjoying the Twins even before the update, I'm sure it's way better now.
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Good for the killers, bad for the survivors.. Twins are way stronger than you would at first expect and for example Hens already calls them OP as you can basically easily 4 men slug every game.
The devs did really great in getting rid of that aspect of twins' gameplay xD (Well to give them some credit, I guess after not going through with the intended changes you can't expect those numbers changes to fix that...)
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is Victor still immune to being kicked when he downs a survivor?
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yes
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No, he is not immune.
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He still does.
As a twins main I play them a lot. I downed a survivor, then walked onto stairs afterwards. Victor immediately died.
#justvictorthings2 -
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He's been kickable every match I've played him so far after a down.
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I heard he still glows white after a successful pounce?
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Yeah he does glow white after a successful down atm, so that may be a confusing bug when he's supposed to be red since the white means not kickable.
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Oh interesting, i haven't played as survivor yet, i only played as Twins themselves and nobody was able to kick me when i downed someone
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I think it's just the color that's bugged making people think they can't. The stun on Victor after a successful down is also 3 seconds now instead of the old 5 so it's a much smaller window for them to act.
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This especially. The cooldown being less than 5 seconds has a massive impact. Victor can still move as well, so you need to be ready to kick him as soon as you see him going for another survivor.
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Yeah I really like this change. Having to eat a 5 second DS stun every time you play well and down someone was one of the things people hated about playing Twins.
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Ironically wasn't all that a result of them mass slugging in the beggining? Leading to aggresive balance updates? I hardly believe they were that clunky on release. I don't quite remember their on release features. But I don't think a 5 second stun was one of them lol.
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Are we sure its the color that is bugged then and not the invulnerability? I only ask this because the patch notes says Victor will glow white when he isn't able to be crushed, but what scenario would he glow white now if he can be crushed during a successful pounce attack?
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Correct, the 5 second stun was not on the release. It was added later. Bugs aside, they weren't as clunky on release. Supposedly their reasoning years ago for adding this clunkyness was because Twins was performing too well at high mmr levels even though they were fine everywhere else. Even though basically no one played them then either, so it was a weird statement. I personally see no issue with their slugging, I think it's a valid play style. High risk/high reward, lots of counter play. Their change also did zero in terms of stopping them from slugging, it just nerfed them in general and made them feel bad to play.
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I was pretty sure I'd been kicked, but I could be wrong. Let me go test it some more.
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Victor is not immune to kicks after downing a survivor despite the white aura misleading you to think so. Also controlling victor himself near a hook does not increase the Anti-Facecamp.
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Okay that's what I thought I had experienced as well.
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Thats troubling to hear. Ugh…
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Yeah I don't understand why everyone wants them to be high tier.
The killer is miserable to play against.
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There is an undocumented change that makes Twins almost as broken as they were on PTB: Victor can now be recalled some 10 seconds after latching onto a survivor. That means there is next to no downtime from Victor, he will always be out injuring and downing people without counterplay.
Twins are unbeatable right now. I hope that shadow buff is not there to stay.
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That was not undocumented. There was a line that said that Victor could be recalled at any time. Which is exactly what this is. It's strong but nowhere near the horror we've seen on the PTB.
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As someone else said, it's not undocumented, it's intended.
Also they are very beatable and have lots of counter play. The counter play is healing and grouping. Essentially the complete opposite of what most groups want to do, which is stay injured, split up, and spread out. The heals deny her snowball slug potential and group denies chain hits since she gets kicked after every down or miss. Oh and locker jumps as well, she actually has very little time to reach the locker.
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You are referring to "Charlotte can now recall Victor at any point while he is unbound.", which isn't what this is. First of all, "unbound" would mean not bound to Charlotte or a survivor. Secondly, this change was already in the PTB, and yet Victor could not be recalled while latched onto a survivor. And finally, if this were also applying when latched on, you would be able to instantly recall him, instead of having to wait 10 seconds. They simply reduced the time before you can recall Victor while latched on to 10 seconds, undocumentedly.
And while it isn't quite as horrendously broken as Twins were on PTB, you will still lose every time to an even just decent Twins unless you are a 4-SWF on comms abusing Power Struggle. And even then you will still lose if the Twins player is more than just decent. Victor will be out constantly, there is no respite, no time to reset, he'll be injuring and downing someone without counterplay every 20 seconds, and of course again be able to slug everyone in quick succession once they are injured.
You don't have time to out-heal Twins, Victor is on the map every 10 seconds ready to injure and down survivors.
Twins were already an incredibly strong killer before this update that were generally considered top 5 in tournament play and 4k'd even highly coordinated teams. I welcome the quality-of-life improvements to them, but this specific change is uncalled for and breaks the killer.
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10 seconds until Victor can be called back. 10 seconds until Victor is ready again. About 6-8 seconds per hit with Victor (including the switch, position and charge times). Another 5 seconds (optimistic) to catch up with Victor. That adds up 37-41 seconds. After that you still need to switch back to Charlotte and get to that survivor before you pick them up. This puts at about 50 seconds.
It's much faster to get a M1 hit before you switch to Victor.
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"You don't have time to out-heal Twins, Victor is on the map every 10 seconds ready to injure and down survivors."
You can. She also isn't out every 10 seconds, that's exaggerating a bit and disregarding the delay on Victor manual returns as well as any missed hits.
"Twins were already an incredibly strong killer before this update that
were generally considered top 5 in tournament play and 4k'd even highly
coordinated teams. I welcome the quality-of-life improvements to them,
but this specific change is uncalled for and breaks the killer."They were not. Tournaments are also a very bad example with all the rule sets they add artificially.
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Btw for those curious before about if you could kick Victor after a successful down, you can. They are not immune on a successful down. I verified.
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Recalling after 10 seconds of latching makes the option to crush Victor pointless and makes a power that is nigh impossible to juke against a competent player more readily available is very questionable. I welcome the removal of awful cooldowns, less so Victor being able to rapid fire damage with no real downside.
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So, fun fact, Victor doesn't count for anti-facecamping.
It's like the entire Killer is an oversight.
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Twins being a top 5 comp killer is clearly something you took right out of your ass cause in a comp tier list posted 2 months ago they were literally placed on the second lowest tier of killers:
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/s/MhY40fi4KB
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at least silencing cloth is really good still. the changes are honestly above my expectations. No longer does swf just abuse victor and hold victor for 30 second+regrow time.
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Yeah that's true. They are above my expectation as well because we got things that weren't really listed, essentially recalling Victor while attached and reduced stun on successful Victor down. Both of those are huge. Those were two of my biggest gripes about playing Twins. They feel significantly smoother and less clunky to play as well as being stronger. Holding Victor hostage should have never been a thing in the first place, it's bad design. The counter play is supposed to be just grouping up and keeping healed. They still have the annoying locker jumping which is bad design as well but I'll take what I can get, huge improvement. They are very strong now. I was really looking forward to Weighted Rattle though, sucks losing that.
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Skull merchant 2.0 here we go.
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The 10 seconds to unleash is only if Victor got crushed, not recalled. Victor used to be attached for 45/30 seconds, and Twins were still an incredibly strong killer that went on winstreaks of hundreds of matches, 4k'd routinely in tournaments and were generally said to require a coordinated team of at least 3 SWF survivors to beat with any consistency if the Twins player is any good. Now it is 10 seconds. And that's on top of all the other baseline improvements. I won't go into a silly numbers game here, if you don't understand how oppressive Twins without the ability to create Victor downtime are, that's you.
If he gets crushed, he's ready to be unleashed 10 seconds later. If he hits someone, he is ready to be recalled and unleashed 10 seconds later.
I don't mind to leave it at disagreeing on whether Twins were an incredibly strong killer even before this update. It is true that tournaments restrict healing items and perks, which makes Twins stronger, but tournament teams are infinitely more coordinated than any pub group anyone ever meets, and coordination was their biggest weakness. And yet they still routinely 4k'd.
Twins in this state are broken.
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"If he gets crushed, he's ready to be unleashed 10 seconds later."
Ignoring the fact that he has to be resummoned all the way back at Charlotte and cross the map again.
"If he hits someone, he is ready to be recalled and unleashed 10 seconds later."
A 10 second wait before recalling, then another delay before resummoning, then you have to recross the map again. There's more to the time than just the cooldown.
" It is true that tournaments restrict healing items and perks, which
makes Twins stronger, but tournament teams are infinitely more
coordinated than any pub group anyone ever meets, and coordination was
their biggest weakness"I'd argue just really good swf's on coms are stronger than comp teams when you factor in them being allowed to stack all the meta perks and 4 syringes or styptics. I think you're downplaying how very signficantly they are nerfed in comp, it's substantial. Also, in comp they are always playing on maps that are significantly easier for killer. There are many, many more maps in DBD that are way more survivor sided that they completely avoid in comp that we are facing against those just really good swf on coms. Factoring in maps + no item or perk restrictions is substantial.
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I wish they buffed Madeines's gloves and Soyed milk. +2 meters and +6 meters is too low. it would be nice if they buffed these add-on to +6 and +10 meters. Victor is somewhat of good tracking power because you can switch, see if anyone is in the area with killer instinct then take back control of victor.
Dead hard is incredible potent vs twins in this iteration. In the ptb, victor could hit a survivor with dead hard then catch-up. in this iteration, dead hard becomes a victor grab. I agree with lockers being still an issue.
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Twins just haven't been part of the competitive circuit or at least not seen much of any regular play in it for years now. When they were, they were considered top 5, with 4ks being common. They are still in top tier balancing on tournaments now, such as Outrun. I'm surprised League's winter circuit had them that low, but it has to be noted that "tiers" here don't merely denote strength, but mostly what kind of balancing they call for. Twins usually have all healing stuff banned, so that might be why they had them in that low a tier.
The delay before unleashing is negligible if you recall. And you don't always have to cross the map (which however doesn't take a lot of time with Victor either) - if Charlotte unleashed Victor when she was on you the hit will happen quickly and won't allow you to make much distance, and she will be right on you and unleash again. It isn't even about the "10 seconds and he's on the map again" thing strictly though. It's that Victor has no counterplay, he guarantees hits and downs, and that already made them a very strong killer when survivors had the ability to frequently keep Victor out for the count for 30 seconds at a time. That being reduced to 10 seconds is ridiculous.
You are right about them being much more threatening in comp due to the restrictions on means of healing, but I still hold that highly coordinated teams of some the very best players in the game are worlds better than some pub SWF stacking healing perks. And actually meeting a full SWF that brings stuff like We'll Make It, Botany, Circle, 4 med-kits and whatnot is vanishingly rare to begin with.
This is not something I for one think is worth even having an argument over. Just play as or against Twins, or watch streamers do so. It'll be obvious soon enough.
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Twins was already strong before the update with a near 60% kill rate. My question is why are the devs buffing killers that don't need buffs? Of course if you make any killer op it's going to become more popular to play.
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