Weave Attunement + Franklin's Demise = 0 Fun
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My buddy dropped a flashlight in the Corn, I saw him get hit but Inever found it lmao. I couldn't see it amidst the sun and corn
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As someone who plays both survivor and killer equally I can see the issues on both sides. Yes survivors can either not bring items or simply move them to the corner of the map. The issue with that argument is solo queues or new player experiences. If you do not have the communication to tell each other where items are on the map then the combo can be very powerful. And for new players they are not going to understand that their aura is being revealed because the only way they will know is by the little debuff at the bottom of the screen. Overall I believe "just don't bring items" is a lazy argument in this instance. I doubt most survivors would say "don't like people getting unhooked then just slug." As for killers the statement it takes 2 perk slots is also slightly invalid. Unless you are running 4 slowdowns or 4 aura reading, most builds consist of 1-2 main perks and 1-3 support perks to help your build. You can run 2 slowdowns with this combo and still get great value out of it due to survivors losing their item and getting info from it. So realistically it would be 3 slowdowns and 1 aura reading. The slowdown being moving items and forcing survivors to lose medkits and/or toolboxes. I don't think it is the combo entirely that is the issue but instead the design of Weave on it's own. Even by itself it can still be good for aura reading though admittedly not as strong. So I believe changing how Weave works should be nerfed. Obviously the range is insane so either a range nerf or possibly have franklins work the way it used to. Instead of the item just sitting there depleted, have it disappear once at 0 charges.
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i'm seriously, and i mean seriously struggling in my attempts to understand what this community finds fun anymore. You have a perk combo that literally has one of the easiest and most simple counters in whole game, both in soloQ and SWF that doesn't just require you to stick to gens, and yet...it's frustrating and unfun to play against? Is losing an item really such a no-no thing for yall? Or yall are now just suffering from severe burnout so you are trying to find ways to channel it?
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The issue I stated with solo queue is the communication on knowing where the dropped items are. Not every player is going to know what to do. And since the range is HUGE it can effect most survivors who are not on coms. They might find it difficult to pinpoint where the dropped item is to then move to somewhere else on the map. That is why I say if there was to be a nerf they should decrease the range or at the very least revert Franklin's back to it's original state.
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I am amazed how people seem to genuinely believe that countering that combo is super easy and not an inconvenience at all. - Have you ever tried to find a random item in a random spot? Have you ever tried moving it somewhere else while the killer sees you doing that without giving the killer a free tag (cause if you want to minimise the aura reading you will bring it to a dead zone of sorts). Have you ever checked how much time that takes? More than 20 seconds? Then it's more powerful slowdown than PainRes on top of providing info.
— I do like the suggestion @RozeChrimzon made. To have items lost because of Franklins disappear once the charges are zero. Seems a good middle ground between the killer getting aura value and preventing survs from using an item — and survivors not being screwed for the rest of the match.4 -
Permanent aura read around anything is silly. I already have issues with Black Incense on plague, that thing just needs to be deleted and find a different effect.
Weave attunement is just a whole nother level of broken. Permanent aura read on a dropped item? Seriously? Why? Whos providing feedback on this and allows it into the game? Its just so obviously broken on release and no one pipes up?
Aura read is already rampant in this game in so many different forms we shouldnt be adding even more to its silliness, but getting rid of most of it.
The devs are making sure to "address distortion" so whats next? Like you just need to have a big "HES HERE" pointing to every target you go after? Wheres the skill expression going?
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As someone who is a Huntress main that has pure aura reading as my main build I think permanent aura read is too much. There needs to be a limit. Most aura read perks reveal for only 2-4 seconds (excluding Lethal Pursuer buff to aura reads) which is enough time to get all the info you may need. Even on survivor side all of the aura read is only for a few seconds as well including keys which have limited uses.
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I saw a Sable yesterday get hit by Franklin's + Weave with full max charges Commodius, I didn't see her item drop, but she ran away with the killer in toe, I only noticed when I saw the Weave Attunement mark as I ran up to the gen.
I grabbed her Commodius, dumped all of it immediately into the gen, but ready to run if I saw Sable's chase marker stop wiggling, picked it up after it was spent then threw it in the corner.
We got a 7-hook, 4-man escape. Was quite a fun and close game that could have easily snowballed into a 2k, or maybe even a 3k, but my Borrowed Tiem came in clutch 😁
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I've done more thinking on this and changed my tune a bit about Weave. I run a lot of aura perks myself and I've liked this perk in general on Killers that already do well with aura perks, Killers like Pig, Ghostface, Wraith, Huntress, Dredge. The problem is it becomes much too easy to read Survivors in situations they can't control with this perk, and I think that Human Greed, the Dracula perk, will have the same issue eventually. I think it's fine to have an aura reading perk that procs on stuff like items, chests, etc. Aura reading existing isn't the issue, not even full aura builds are an issue. But I don't think it's fine to have a perk that can give free wallhacks because an item is at a loop.
I think all Weave really needs is to show where the item's at or have a range reduction, or maybe a cooldown between reads. The unlimitedness is the issue. No other aura perk really does that. Do not break its synergy with Franklin's because I think that's totally okay - Killers are allowed to have strong aura and anti-shenanigan builds too just like Survivors are. DO however, make it have some sort of limit to how it is used or at least give it some way to help Survivors counter it, because when it procs on something like a dropped Key or a dropped flashlight on a dark map it feels really, really bad and you genuinely will never find the item to counter the perk. Nobody is going to hunt for a lost Key on MacMillan's while being chased by a Killer, or bother to pick it up later. The little debuff indicator does nothing. It's fine if it's a medkit or toolbox or even something like a Bloodsense map because those are large and quite visible. It's not fine on other items.3 -
Glad to see other killers can understand how problematic the range/constant aura read can be :)
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survivors learn not to be greedy and just give up one of their thousands of items challenge, level:impossible
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The fact other killers can see the issue with the perk but you cannot provide real feedback and instead insult others :(
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you forgot one
Can’t have perks.
/s
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The fact that survivors and killers have given the easiest counter to a perk combo that doesn’t even use perks plus multiple perks that completely negate the perk combo which practically removes half the killers load out and you just ignore it :(
I play both sides, any time I go against this combo I activate my two reminding brain cells I have (before you twists this into more insults against others this is literally me insulting my own intelligence) I just drop my item in a corner, and then the aura reading the killer has mysteriously disappears 🤔
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It's not that the counter is hard. It's that the killer is getting the value of at least two perks while the survivors are "countering" their two perks.
The counter to this combo reveals the survivor, makes the survivor oblivious, and forces them to do something other than gens for 30+ seconds at the start of the game. That's like lethal pursuer, effectively corrupt intervention since they aren't on gens right away, and they're oblivious to boot. Which doesn't even count that they don't get to use their item without even more wasted time traveling and aura reveal.
It's too much.
Or, alternately, I really want a survivor version of this combo. It isn't hard to realize that "not using your killer power" is never going to be a reasonable counter to completely passive perk choices by the opponent.
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This perk combo isn't actually all that unbalanced overall when you look back on stuff like Overbrine and such and, unlike popular beliefs, it DOES have at least 2 counters to it that the survivors can do against it which is either just simply put your item in a part of the map that has a good chance of nobody ever going to like a corner of the map or just use Distortion like everyone did before this combo existed until we see what changes Distortion is gonna be receiving. One counter doesn't need a perk and the other counter does so it's two decently reasonable methods.
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Well that would be because I play both sides and want the game to be the best it can be, Roze. :) Play a lot of M1 Killers like me AND Survivor, and you tend to get a more nuanced view.
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Just like DH … or DS … or UB … or a Flashlight from a weird angle. Strangely enough not Head On or Blastmine, this two perks, while doing essentially the same, need more setup and you feel like actually stepping into a trap instead of just getting hit by an unavoidable BS.
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Every perk you listed (and even the item) has been nerfed. What’s happened to Franklin’s? FYI I don’t think it’s super oppressive or anything but it’s unfun to face. Anyway it seems like you’re making a 1:1 comparison here between those unfun perks which have been significantly nerfed and FD, which has not, so I’m curious to see how your logic flows.
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I am not making a 1:1 comparison (besides the point that I must have missed the Head On, Blastmine and Unbreakable nerfs), it was just a reminder that stuff for both sides exist that instantly makes you want to hate the game. I am only a 1/3 survivor player, so I don't get any attachment to my items, but I guess that Franklin can really throw a wrench into your game plan, though losing an item is IMHO not comperable to losing all pressure or a chase being extended by another 30+s due to the power of E ^_- Nothing ever sucked as much fun out of the game as DH, with the possible exeption of MFT.
BTW, Franklin GOT nerfed2 times in recent history. For most of its existence a dropped item was on a timer and when the timer expired, the item would get completely consumed by The Entity. Survivor hated this a lot, because it circumvented white wards completely. When limited items got introduced this got changed to charges being lost constantly and limited items being just slapped out of survivors hands, without them being consumed.
Then later, limited items even got placed in the second hand, where they were safe from any slapping. Also, I think it was during the change that brought back the losing of charges, items no longer disappear when they lose all charges.
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Here's the history of Franklin's Demise:
Release: Hit survivor drops items and it loses 10% of it's charges. Really only hurt Med-kits that were optimized to contain exactly X heals. Overall a bad perk.
4.1.0 change: Hit survivor drops items and if it stays on ground for 90 seconds, the item is gone. This was an improvement as now keys could be dealt with since keys could be used with 0 charges. Still overall a pretty bad perk.
5.0.0 change: The current iteration. Was a straight nerf until keys got nerfs to not allow opening hatch at 0 charges. Still not a great perk.
Franklin's honestly was never good and still isn't. It's annoying to face as survivor, but it's impact is pretty low unless survivors greed for the items.
Honestly I don't think Weave Attunement itself is even a real issue, because as a standalone perk it's terrible. Without any way to force survivors to drop items all that happens is an item gets used up, it drops, survivor picks up item and gets oblivious for 30 seconds. Really easy to deal with.
I don't have much hope that Weave will get changed in a way to make it a better perk and likely just end up with a quick change like Ultimate Weapon. Ultimate Weapon isn't bad, but the change makes it a good camping perk rather than a good info perk.
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Thanks for this info dumb, that clears up a lot. And yeah, Franklin is one of this perks that SEEMS strong and really annoying, but its actually not very strong. Its a buff vector for Weave Attunement, and once that is nerfed, Franklins will slink back into mediocracy.
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30 seconds.
OTR lasts for 90 and stops killers from being able to do their objective. The counter to that also gives survivors value. But if I was to complain about OTR and DH combo then I’d get told that theres just “an easy counter” so I’m not allowed to complain.Lethal and corrupt are also two perks, just like weave plus franklins are two perks, but they are less powerful because corrupt last longer and lethal extends all aura reading.
Also oblivious? Are you seriously complaining about oblivious? You sound like the type of player to complain about scratched mirror myers because you can’t hear his terror radius. There is nothing wrong with oblivious.
There’s also distortion, object, and other perks that by themselves counter half the killers build, plus get value even if they don’t bring that combo.
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I agree with you but the only issue I have with Blast Mine, or had, was that it lasted too long and the Killer was unfairly punished for doing their objective of simply kicking. It made kicking gens a total liability in games and now with its smaller timer with less gen progression needed, it doesn't have that issue. I would have been fine with it as is though, if it simply showed the mine on the generator or gave the Killer SOME tell so they could avoid the mine and it really WOULD be like stepping into a trap, instead of a tool used to a) annoy the Killer, b) do blind challenges, c) make the Killer second-guess doing basic tasks like kicking generators at all.
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UB was nerfed to no longer wake you up if you were in Freddy’s dreamworld, Head On no longer worked if you had idle crows, and Blastmine was nerfed when you’d lose it if the timer ran out. So yeah all of the survivor perks you mentioned have at some point been nerfed. I forgot about Franklin’s permanently deleting the items survivors had to buy. You’ve got me there.
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Oh well, you are also technically right, but common, you really call that change to UB a nerf? Technically yes, its taking away from its utility, but from a practical standpoints that is bending over backwards to find something. Same with Head On and the idle crows: sure, you could use it "tactically" to annoy the killer and then jump in their face, and that was now taken away, but that is such a niche case, and I would think that anyone can agree that getting idle crows is not an unfair condition for that perk to stop working.
The Blastmine change, I actually forgot about, and thats one I felt severely, as I always was an avid Blastmine user. Yeah, the first change was really uncalled for, with it disappearing after just a short time, that was very frustrating. But right now, with the 3min timer, it is in a very good spot: you can't just mindlessly put it on the gen you are working on for the off-chance that the killer comes in for a last second kick, and not use its applycation for the next gen, but you also don't lose it easily to a killer being in a chase.
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It's at least 30 seconds, but the main point that you apparently missed, is that you have to do something other than gens at the start of the game. That's exactly what corrupt is intended to do: you can't do gens immediately, it slows you down right away and delays gen progress at the very start of the game... Just like weave does.
Again, you're completely missing the point. You're getting roughly the same value as lethal and corrupt IF THE SURVIVORS ARE "COUNTERING" YOUR COMBO.
It does even more than that if they didn't counter it.
And you don't need franklin's for this value. If survivors know to counter it at all, then they see weave and assume you have franklin's. By the time they realize you don't have franklin's, they've already dropped their item and didn't even get a notification that you don't have it. 100% of this value is in one perk: weave.
I'm not complaining about oblivious, I'm complaining that weave also somehow accomplishes even more than just lethal and corrupt, and potentially infinite wall hacks.
People defending this perk will literally say anything, or deliberately misunderstand the point, to have the broken thing in the game.
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When I'm playing surv- I think it's a whole lot more fun than pain res, grim embrace, pop, etc… just drop your item at the start of the match and you'll immediately know if the killer is running it or not. If they are, worst case scenario you're the first chase- which getting chased is the only fun interaction as survivor imo - so more chase for me after I drop my item in the corner of the map lol.
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If you want fun on a game, you shouldn't play dbd in the first place
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Personally yes I consider it a nerf because I like when perks and items have unique interactions with killer powers. Some of it is thematic (light harming void-walkers like wraith and nurse) or a throwback to things we saw in the film (like Adrenaline and UB waking you up against Freddy). But I can understand that they may seem more like QoL than true nerfs to most people
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once again. 30 seconds vs 90 seconds. Of a perk that isn’t guaranteed to do anything. If nobody brings an item, uses it, or just gets rid of it, you get no value, for less than lethal.
You missed my point completely, that lethal and corrupt not only last longer, give confirmed value, and also give additional value (lethal aura increase) than weave if they counter weave. Out of curiosity did you put it in quotes? it’s a hard counter that removed half (or 1/4 if they only brought weave) of the killers build PERMANENTLY if done correctly.If you don’t counter it that’s a skill issue, this is the easiest thing to counter, people dunked on killer for complaining about DH by saying it was easy to counter, but killers say it’s easy to counter this and there’s an uproar of whiners.
This argument ignores the fact that Franklins is the literal reason that this wall hack combo works, you act as if survivors dropping their items and wasting what is 1/3 of corrupt value is somehow a game winner??? If you getting rid of your item is THAT BAD that you’ll lose the game then it’s once again a skill issue.if the killer dosent have Franklins then they don’t get the wall hacks on loops or gens, if you drop an item by a loop or gen that’s your fault. If there’s no franklins then weave gets no aura reading and only gets the same value as 1/3 of corrupt.
If you aren’t complaining about it why is it in your argument? How does it accomplish more, if you drop an item that takes maybe 30 seconds then you get rid of the perk completely. Once again Lethal and corrupt gives you Longer, guaranteed value every single game that combos with other perks, weave dose not. If you give the killer infinite wall hacks from it then then that’s a skill issue.
People complaining will literally ignore how builds work to remove something from the game.
But since apparently that’s such a problem then it should be completely fair to say OTR is a broken perk that needs to be removed right? Because it wastes 90 seconds of the killers time if the survivor uses it to body block, and if they “counter” it then they waste their time on weapon wipe and give them speed boost away, giving it even more value. So because of that we should nerf OTR into the ground right? Of course not, because it ISNT AN ISSUE but double standards won’t let you acknowledge that so I don’t expect a response to this :)4 -
I only use this combo against flashlight squads. it's perfectly fine as is. Bring flashlights at your own peril.
Post edited by LadyOwO on0 -
this
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Franklin's was also nerfed to not drop Killer related items around the time Singularity was released which meant Pinhead/Wesker/Nemesis couldn't go around hitting said items off Survivors' hands. The perk is literally a shadow of its former self.
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These two perks combination requires from Killer 2 slots for perks. Additionally, Survivors have a counterplay against this combination. Just drop item in the corner. That's all. Killer play with 2 perks now.
Also "Why Killer get free Aura Reading for 0 effort"… Ekhm… Exhaustion Perks - bonus speed for free…
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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I feel like a lot of the arguing for Weave Attunement comes down to one simple issue that needs resolving: Most items are fine, they are there to enhance play.
The real reason you would ever run an anti-item build? Toolboxes. It's toolboxes. They're hands down the strongest item in the game… and maybe too strong at that, or rather one specific one is. Commodious, and every iteration on Commodious such as the event toolboxes.0 -
For most killer items, it didn't really come up that much. The best user was pinhead but pinhead also got a faster box downing the survivor rather than use franklins so it's arguable whether it was an improvement.
But it was another nerf it got, just one I don't think really impacted much.
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It made Hoarder + Franklins a "meme" build for Nemesis and Wesker though, but build variety is a different issue entirely.
Hitting a healthy Survivor holding the box with old Franklins gave Pinhead the choice of continuing the chase and picking up the box later or picking up the box first for immediate 1v4 pressure via chain hunt. Both are equally viable I feel
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I love perk combinations that are ######### against SWF but obliterate solo queue.
SWF sees that Weave is in play and stuff their items in the corner. In solo queue, your aura is read all game because your teammates don’t pick their items up and nobody else knows where they got dropped at. It’s like Knockout, total ass to play against because I’m not with friends.0 -
if you just move the item to a corner then the killer now has 2 dead perk slots.
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I don’t know you seem to think that the survivor’s fun should be at the expense of the killer’s.
Survivors have items and perks that can give them pretty much constant wall hacks on the killer and now you’re complaining that it’s working the other way around. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of entitlement that exists here.
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I will just leave this here.
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Funnily enough, Franklins wasn't even worth running on Pinhead. It was only Hoarder.
All Franklins was ever good for was Coconuts patented "win by making survivors rage quit" strategy
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what great thanksgiving the day Franklins came, it was a shadow drop to me… didn't know it was coming. pretty sure it was a thanksgiving. 2017 maybe 18, idk. Franklins was a main perk for many matches.
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