http://dbd.game/killswitch
Please don't fully remove Tomes!
I, like many others have been working through the tomes trying to get 100%
With all this effort put in, plus the added incentives to keep playing and coming back, it would be a real shame to eventually lose all that.
While I am a fan of the new quest system, it is very much a passive progression system, and a lot of the tome challenges add a bit more spice to some trials, and often give a reason for trying out new perks and pulling you away from your comfort or meta build.
I don't mind having them relegated to a lower down sub menu at all - I'm glad they are still available to access if anyone wants. Will just be sad to see them dissappear completely.
So this is my post to add to the voices saying please don't remove them completely!
Comments
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I do not want the Tomes removed. I want the Compendium to stick around forever.
It's unique. It's fun. And I always always have something from it selected to amuse myself. Like as killer, if I have no other Tome challenge to do, I have the purple glyph selected so I can randomly come across it during matches. I do the same as survivor. It's just a little thing, but it's fun and it means a lot to me. I would actually be devastated if that were taken away.
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Please do not remove the tomes! I'm enjoying working through the backlog of challenges, they keep me coming back.
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If tomes are getting retired eventually could we just like tuck them away in the options menu or something to be accessed? Even if it's just to read the lore entries and watch the cutscenes in the tomes?
The new system is miles better I won't argue that. I just don't want to see all the available challenges, possible BP and lore go away along with the cutscenes.
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I also wish tomes stayed. The new system is efficient, but it really doesn't have any feeling to it. It's just like every other game, and misses the unique feel of DbD.
Like I'm completing challenges in the background and not even thinking about them. Feels pointless.
All lore being unlocked also feels wrong. I don't want to go and read 22 pages of lore. But occasionally unlocking lore and reading it, sure.
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Im sure the current quests are just basic requirements for the sake of testing. Atm theres almost no milestone quests and 4 weeklys. As the rift progresses, we'll see more challenges requiring specific characters/perks/items doing specific things. Only thing about this is, what happens to advanced dbd lore? It just seems to be gone other than what we have in The Tomes
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Hopefully they don't end up removing the tomes because I still want to get some of the lvl 4 charms that look really cool. Would suck if they were made unavailable forever.
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dbd is getting way too corporate. I agree with you on all fronts. I just made a post about this
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I do hope there is some killer/survivor specific ones as it incentives trying new characters. Especially with killer, there's ones i tend to avoid as I'm not very good with them, but trying them out again for a challenge I find myself having fun - opening up the killer varieties I feel comfortable playing. It would be a shame to lose this.
I also like the historical record of completing things in the archives. The way it looks now, the milestone quests only span the length of the rift and will be reset, so no gold star or lasting incentive to 100% it.
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Hard agree, I'm hoping the devs decide to simply keep tomes tucked away for players to access if they want, and to provide a little extra long-term goal setting for dedicated players. It wouldn't be hurting anyone or requiring any upkeep, so it really wouldn't be an issue.
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I am joining this motion.
Keep the Compendium, please.
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The tome challenges were toxic to solo q survivors.
It’s impossible for solo q to feel like a team, when one of the survivors is sandbagging their entire team to complete a tome challenge.
If we want to bridge the gap between solo q and SWF, then we need to get rid of the stuff that encourages survivors to be selfish anti-team individuals.
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Then there's the reasonable players who want an extra challenge/win condition/something different.
Don't blame the mechanic, blame the people.
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BHVR needs to make a ranked mode before that, so we can have a casual queue where survivors can be as anti-team player as they want, and they can ruin as many games as they want for the other survivors.
Blaming the people doesn’t help the solo q games that get ruined because of tome challenges. The real solution is to phase out the toxic challenges, unless there is a separate casual queue where people can do whatever they want.
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They should definitely keep the old tomes in the game so that completionists can have something to work on in the long term. No sense in removing them. They could even make a unique profile banner/badge for people who 100% it. Hell, auto-complete the character specific ones, at least the licensed ones, so you don't have to buy every character to complete them.
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We both know that won't stop anything, but this is neither time nor place for that discussion.
Blaming people for being dumb about doing their challenges seems the appropriate response. Besides, the only real toxic ones (which are opinions mind) are the blind ones.
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Blaming people doesn't accomplish anything. But removing the toxic challenge does accomplish things.
BHVR's biggest focus should be on making solo q feel more like a team. And it shouldn't be via survivor buffs, because BHVR has been doing enough of that. This should be done by discouraging or removing the reasons why solo q survivors aren't team players. Which is usually 1 of 3 things…
- Survivors that are rage quitting early. This can be greatly helped by removing the exploits that allow survivors to easily bypass the DC penalties. This is part of the "Go Next" Prevention that is on the current roadmap.
- Survivors that excessively hide and wait for their teammates to die. This can be greatly helped by the Hiding Prevention that is on the current roadmap.
- Survivors that aren't even trying to help their team escape, because they are wasting enormous amounts of time on tome challenges, and are essentially sandbagging their entire team. This can be greatly helped by the New Quest System that is on the current roadmap.
Those are the important things in the Phase 1 roadmap. The things that help solo q feel more like a team.
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Tomes shouldn't definitely stay
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They've got nothing to lose by keeping it around. I can't see any reason to get rid of it.
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I will absolutely blame challenges, but not exactly the mechanics
Tome challenges had plenty of ridiculous one that actively harms gameplay, such as "invigorate survivors as clown" or "do hatch escape" or "use no mither", all those extremely detrimental challenges were still born in tome system, so honestly I feel it's gone for good, also even something like "rescue survivors x times in a match" actively encourages players to race for rescue and cram in hooks, it was flawed system if we think about that
But then there is no guarantee they won't do same thing with new quest system so…
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Yet if people didn't act like their lives were on the line to complete those challenges, there'd be less harm. Those like use no mither actively challenge people to use the perk "DBD hardmode" instead of one of their usual, and likely meta, perks. Hatch escapes can be done with 5 gens and open doors. Even the rescues one is likely an eventuality due to the nature of the game, but people want it done now.
Blame what you want, but we see it as a people problem.
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Seeing it as a people problem doesn’t actually help fix the problem.
Yeah, there are a lot of people that are going to rush the challenges. So the solution is to stop having challenges that are toxic when survivors try to rush them.
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To be fair, at that point you can't have any even remotely interesting challenges.
Anything other than just playing matches would be susceptible to survivors throwing to complete them— even regular engagement challenges like "be chased" are susceptible to survivors throwing, by running at the killer to try and force chase when they should be doing literally anything else.
So, if your challenges are anything other than "complete trials" and "do generators", you've got the same problem.
I don't actually have a solution here, but it's not as simple as just not having challenges that survivors could throw to try and rush, because that's basically any challenge in the game.
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I hope the Tomes stick around in one form or another. As a charm enjoyer, it's been fun to be able to go back into the old Tomes to collect all of the past evolving charm sets. Some of the best charms are in those tomes (the rabbit ones, hatching spider, the universal ones, to name just a few).
Unlocking these has keep me busy at times when there's not been much in the way of new content or events going on. I'd hate for newer players to miss out on that.
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Seeing the problem isn't the same as fixing it regardless, but pretty much what Jesterkind said above sums up our general thoughts in a nicer way.
What couldn't count as "toxic"? At this rate it would be things like "escape as X survivor"...which are not remotely interesting.
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Do you super honestly not see any difference in “break totems” challenges and “be chased by the killer” challenges?
When a survivor rushes a break totem challenge, they are often spending large amounts of time breaking dull totems, which ends up not helping the other survivors at all.
But when survivors rush chase challenges, they can bring chase perks to help them last longer in chases, and when they are being chased by the killer it helps the other survivors because it’s occupying the killer’s time, and taking pressure off of the other survivors.0 -
I see the difference, but it's a slight difference of scale, not a difference of kind.
If a survivor rushes a break totem challenge, they COULD be spending large amounts of time breaking dull totems for no effect, or they COULD bring perks like Inner Strength of Overzealous to capitalise on the opportunity.
Similarly, if they're rushing a chase challenge, they COULD bring chase perks to help them last longer so other survivors have time to do gens and reset… or they COULD just be running at the killer regardless of context and getting themselves killed.
There's no functional difference save for chases being more common without challenges, both are susceptible to people throwing to do them. You'd see it more frequently with totem challenges, potentially, but the principle applies to both.
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When we broke totems we made sure it was either useful (bringing totem based perks) or after/on the way to something (finished a gen and break a totem nearby) vs those who scour the map looking through every last nook and cranny for them. When we had a chase challenge, we just went with it naturally as chases are a natural part of the game vs trying to run AT the killer like an idiot. Looking like that's a people problem from our view.
There's a difference between what you need to do between them yet neither are "toxic" to us. What wouldn't be "toxic" to someone yet still be interesting?
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We really need to care a lot more about probabilities.
If we really want to be extreme, let’s talk about green glyph challenges, that literally have a 0% chance of helping the other survivors escape. These challenges literally encourages survivors to do an anti-teamwork activity.
The challenges need to be reviewed, to determine if the challenge action has a higher probability to hurt or help the rest of the team.
Challenges like breaking totems, or hiding near the killer, or green glyph challenges, have a way higher probability of hurting the team when rushed, so they should never happen in the future.
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Well, at that point, we have to ask why.
Totem challenges only have a higher chance of harming the team (if they even do, ftr, I wouldn't personally peg those ones as the problem- chest opening is much worse) because people don't broadly value the perks that'd help. There's nothing actually wrong with the challenge, so maybe the solution is instead to encourage the use of those perks somehow.
Glyph challenges, sure, that's just a timesink. It's not necessarily harmful but you could easily see someone wasting too much time on them.
"Hiding near the killer", though, is a challenge with a weird perception in the community, not least because there's two versions. Assuming we're talking about the ones that actually have a distance listed, honestly, yeah, I'm on board with them not coming back, they're just kind of annoying— but people act like "be in the killer's terror radius" is the same way, and it isn't, those challenges are fine.
At a certain point if we want any halfway interesting challenges we need to take some steps somewhere to encourage good play within those challenges. I don't know how you'd do that, though. Maybe flavour text when the challenge is hovered over or something?
It's all well and good to say "if it has a higher chance of harming the team, it shouldn't come back", but it's equally bad for the game to not have any interesting challenges left afterwards. If all we're able to have is "finish trials" and "do gens", we may as well not have challenges at all.
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People not going for their only ACTUAL progression that stays outside a match? literally impossible
The way it is made is flawed, broken and harmful, it's literally how it was working for real matches
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Totem challenges have a higher chance of harming the team, because survivors breaking dull totems, often brings zero value to the other survivors. It has absolutely nothing to do with perks.
Acceptable daily challenges involve activities that actually have a decent chance of helping the other survivors. Like anything involving repairing, or altruism, or chases. Ideally, daily challenges shouldn't involve hatch escapes, or anything else that is much easier to achieve if the survivor excessively hides and purposely waits for their teammates to die.
Acceptable weekly challenges can also include activities that can be reasonably done without rushing at all. For example, "hide within the killer's terror radius for a total of 60 seconds" is completely fine as a weekly challenge.
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They need to keep the Compendium and the Tomes!! It's the one thing that makes Dead by Daylight feel like a game with a goal and purpose!
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tomes are the only reason I havent quit the game fully tbh
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I find that I play the game less in all honesty.
With the old challenge system, I would grind away trying to finish specific challenges but with the new dailies - they're a lot more easier to go through and finish.
I will miss the old rewards, but having to slog through page after page and having challenges that inherently threw the game wasn't it either. I also find myself not getting as burnt out over the game, but that's because I just play for the dailies. I think once I get to the end, I'll probably play even less due to how much of a slog Dead By Daylight feels like.
I'm glad you're enjoying the new rewards system, I don't mind as it allows me to play other games in the meantime as the old system had a lot more grind to it, I feel.
I do think they should give more rifts the more you level up, it would potentially make me play more, but I'm enjoying the new daily system even if I feel burnt out over the game at times.
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A lot of the challenges were causing issues in SoloQ because people were throwing to complete the challenges. I think the new one should be built upon, but the old one had to go for obvious reasons, even though I enjoyed it. It’s sad we can’t have nice things because people feel like they need to open 5 chests in a single match.
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This is only true at mid-high MMR where players on both sides are playing the strongest killers, add-ons and perks to try and outpace each other... which let's face it, if you aren't someone who consistently plays hardcore, sweaty, you are unlikely to be paired with those players.
A significant number of the player base,likely the majority, aren't playing super serious, aren't bringing syringes, BNPs and commodius toolboxes against Pain Res, Grim Ermbrace and DMS... not taking meta isn't throwing the game inherently, and I think it's harmful to any game to flaunt that idea.
With this in mind, the tomes and challenges encourage you to try new perk combos out, try to find methods of satisfying the challenge without throwing the game. The clue is in the name... it's a challenge. You take additional conditions on the trial while still attempting to win...
It makes what would otherwise be a stale, repetitive grind fest into a unique puzzle to try and solve. Gotta break 10 totems? OK, take a map with red twine, take Overzealous, Inner Strength, maybe Counterforce vs. TotH and then efficiently break totems for buffs to gen repair and healing speed efficiency. This isn't meta, but it isn't an immediate throw unless at the higher ends of competative play, and it can even come in clutch against killer with a dedicated Hex: Build.
Now that's not a great example, because there are peopel who won't try to use the perks genuinely and naturally in trying to complete challenges while still winning the game... but there are some challenges that can lead you to discover some pretty decent and surprisingly powerful combos that you might otherwise overlook, by virtue of encouraging you to try things, rather than just go along with whatever the most popular streamers and content creators are saying. There is nothing stopping any perk or ability being buffed in future where said totem challenge may not be a throw at all in future.
I don't think it's healthy for the game at all to expect or insist that everyone plays meta... it'd be like saying you have to play Nurse or Blight only on killer, which is of course... silly. People should and do play whatever killer they want, and the same should be true for survivor.
I never get mad at aomeone doing a challenge... Throwing the game to me isn't derived from what perks you take or what challenges you try to complete, it's deliberately getting yourself or your teammates killed with SoH, unnecessary and bad unhooks under the killers nose, or deliberately leading the killers to teammates on gens that I take issue with.
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Fat fingered the post comment button... plz ignore...
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The tomes and challenges don't actually encourage the "without throwing the game" part, because it's not a requirement. If the challenges said "and all 5 generators need to be repaired that game" or "and at least 2 survivors need to escape that game", then it actually would encourage survivors to do the challenges "without throwing the game".
Because as they are now, we sometimes have survivors that run around the map breaking totems, then immediately try to go next, because their only goal for the entire game was to work on the tome challenge, and they want to quickly start working on the next tome challenge.
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agreed i actually want both to exist at once so we can choose our "story" but have side quests on top of that for added fun and rewards
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To me, it's all over the place and yet nowhere at the same time. If you were a new player to this game, you'd have no idea that there's a rewards path like other games, or how to progress it, or where to find the challenges, or what menus to go into. I know this because as an experienced player, it took days to get used to this change. It feels really rough.
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HI everyone!
Has BHVR said they are removing the tomes or just not adding new ones?
I have a ton of challenges completed that I haven't claimed the bloodpoints for because I like to claim them when the anniversary event is ending so that I have plenty of cakes on everyone.
If they're removing them, do we know when ?
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On the news page for the new quest system:
They say they are planning on retiring it, but no timescale given
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