http://dbd.game/killswitch
I compiled a list of the new AFK Crow Rules, so you can discuss them
There is a lot of complaining about the New AFK Crows, but it doesn't seem like anyone knows how they actually work, so here are my notes that I've collected so far. This information is good for the sake of discussion, so people can argue if some of the rules feel unfair:
Rules for AFK Crows...
1) 10 second grace period for not doing objectives
2) At 100% AFK point speed = 1/2/3 crows at 60/75/90 seconds
3) At 50% AFK point speed = 1/2/3 crows at 120/150/180 seconds
4) Not doing any objectives and not moving = AFK points happen at 100% speed
5) Being near the killer = AFK points happen at 50% speed
6) Moving (walking back and forth in a line works, because the distance threshold isn't big) = AFK points happen at 50% speed
7) Being in chase a few seconds = removes all crows
8) Repairing a generator for 12/13/15 seconds = removes 1/2/3 crows
9) Repairing a generator when it reaches 100%, regardless of seconds spent repairing = removes all crows
10) Healing a survivor for 12 seconds = removes all crows
11) Healing a survivor when it reaches 100% of a health state, regardless of seconds spent healing = removes all crows
12) Going into the dying state = removes all crows
13) Breaking a totem = removes all crows
14) Unhooking a survivor = does not remove crows!
15) Looking through a Springtrap camera for a few seconds (maybe 12 seconds?) = removes all crows!
16) Opening a chest when it reaches 100% progress, regardless of seconds spent opening a chest = removes all crows
17) Hatch spawns or End Game Collapse is triggered = removes all crows
Things I still haven't figure out:
18) Potential grace period for being unhooked?
19) Potential grace period for being healed one health state after being unhooked?
20) Potential grace period for unhooking a survivor?
21) Healing a survivor from deep wounds to injured, regardless of seconds = removes all crows???
22) Healing a survivor from dying to injured, regardless of seconds = removes all crows???
23) What happens with other killer powers? Does interacting with every killer power remove crows? If I disarm a Trapper trap, does that remove crows?
24) Do flashlight saves, flashbang saves, and pallet saves remove crows?
Concerns about AFK crows:
25) The distance threshold for moving (Rule 5) should be much larger. If survivors want to run long distances to get to a generator, or find totems, or whatever, then give them the 50% AFK point speed. But if they're literally running back and forth in a line, in a corner of map, they should still have a 100% AFK point speed.
26) Looking through a Springtrap camera (Rule 14) shouldn't remove all crows. It's too easy to bypass the AFK crows when Springtrap is the killer.
27) If you start a game, and want to run all the way across the map to repair a generator, you can easily do that because you'll be at 50% AFK point speed.
28) Being able to remove all crows by opening a chest, seems questionable? If the killer doesn't have the Human Greed perk, do survivors really need to be opening chests?
29) If only two survivors are alive, and one of the survivors is in the dying state, the other survivor maybe should have their AFK point speed paused. Otherwise, killers might be further encouragers to slug for the 4k, hoping the last survivor will get AFK crows before the slugged survivor bleeds out.
30) Hex totems might be an issue, as some survivors might legitimately need over 2 minutes to find a totem. Hex totems might need to always show their aura to survivors in at least a 16 meter radius, or they might need to be loud like boons, or maybe something else might need to happen, to reduce the maximum time survivors need to find a hex totem. Also, this aura reveal might need to be immune to the blindness status effect.
31) Finding generators might be an issue at some MMR levels, as some survivors might legitimately need over 2 minutes to find a generator, especially if the generator is indoors and might not easily be viewable at far distances. Maybe if the survivor has been moving a large distance for 40 seconds, the closest 3 generators can be aura revealed, and this aura reveal is immune to blindness? An alternate trigger might be a certain AFK threshold (i.e. the survivor has 3 generator auras revealed when they reach 2/3 the AFK points needed for the first crow).
32) Are there any other times where AFK points should be paused? Oni during blood rush? Myers during (non-infinite) Tier 3? Haunted grounds during the 60 seconds of exposed? Are survivors expected to repair generators during these times?
33) I'm worried the PTB AFK Crows are just going to be a knowledge check, where people that know how to loophole the system will be able to excessively hide, and the people that don't know how to loophole the system will get AFK crows.
34) If a survivor is injured with Self Care, can they move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds, heal for 12 seconds, move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds, heal for 12 seconds, move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds, heal for 12 seconds, move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds, heal for 10 seconds (hitting 100% of the healing state resets AFK crows), move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds, open a chest, and move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds? And if blessing totems resets AFK crows (I forgot to check before the PTB closed), can a survivor just bless a totem every 120 seconds, to have an infinite way to reset AFK crows that doesn't alert the killer?
35) When totems or Jigsaw boxes are interrupted by a scream, can the survivor have a grace period to continue the interaction? Because it would be extra unfun to get interrupted by a scream AND get AFK crows because the survivor didn't complete the interaction. Because if Jigsaw boxes had a grace period, then the AFK crow rules could be "Completing a Jigsaw box search resets AFK points". But if screaming is going to interrupt Jigsaw boxes, then the AFK crow rule might need to be "Searching a Jigsaw box for 12 seconds resets AFK points".
36) Sadako tapes and TVs are more complicated. Turning off a TV probably shouldn't reset AFK points. But if inserting a tape always removed AFK points, then someone could just run tapes over and over, to excessively hide. Maybe the AFK crow rule could be "If a survivor inserts a tape, and it removes at least 2 stacks, reset AFK points"? Would that be too confusing, or would it be expected that survivors wouldn't normally inset a tape unless they had at least 2 stacks?
37) Victor will be able to start chases next patch, and I’m assuming this is so Victor can reset AFK points. This is a huge nerf for Victor, and it would be much better if being within a certain distance of Victor reset AFK crows, so that he wouldn’t need to start chases. Victor relies on not having chase music so he can avoid pallet stuns, because he can currently hear if a survivor ran past an undropped pallet, or if they stopped running right after the undropped pallet. Remember that Victor getting pallet stunned is much more punishing that of any other killer got pallet stunned, because it completely removes Victor, and places Victor on a long cooldown, and Charlotte is often somewhere far away at that point and has wasted a bunch of time. Twins are easy has a really low pick rate, and we don’t need to make it worse, by removing Victor’s ability to avoid pallet stuns.
38) Should AFK points be paused when a generator is blocked? If Grim Embrace blocks all generators for 40 seconds, then AFK points really should be paused. But what if Dead Man’s Switch blocks a generator that a survivor was recently repairing. Are they be expected to find another generator, or should their AFK points be paused so they wait for the generator to be unblocked?
39) Invocations have a progress rule, where somewhere between 12 and 15 seconds of progress, remove all crows. So you don't need to complete the entire invocation to remove crows.
40) AFK points should be paused, after 5 generators have been competed, while exit gates are blocked. Survivors should not be expect to progress the game (work on exit gates), when the exit gates are literally blocked.
Comments
-
It seems a bit odd to me that they finally updated this system, but didn't take some of the more common sense issues into account.
It makes sense, for example, that interacting with the killer's power should at least count as "playing the game" to progress toward removing crows. Things like pig hats, Onryo tapes, or even flame turrets that take more than a couple seconds to interact with/use shouldn't also be forcing survivors to announce their location as well.
On the other hand, they completely whiffed when it comes to the killer being afk apparently. Body blocking in a corner will still force the survivor to get crows and they physically can't do anything about it. They should, at minimum, remove collision when you get a certain number of crows so you can at least phase through a body block to get out. (You can still get hit, just pass through someone - this already exists for falling onto another character)
20 -
Thank you for making this discussion.
I was pretty unsure about how this exactly worked, so I'm glad to see exact values.
IMO, the new AFK system is pretty good, even a bit lenient I'd say.
-25 -
This actually is included in the changes, though.
When you gain all 3 crows, you lose colision with all players. This makes it so the killer can't bodyblock forever.
-2 -
The third point seems to answer that.
1 -
Oh good, I missed that in the notes. Thanks!
3 -
To be fair, the player should already lose Collision after receiving 1 Crow. Being bodyblocked for 60 seconds is already way more than any strategic bodyblocking can achieve. No need to wait an extra 30 seconds AND get noise notifications (if being blocked by another Survivor).
13 -
It's actually worse than that, because if the killer is bodyblocking a survivor, the survivor is considered near the killer, and therefore gains AFK points at 50% speed. This means the absolute worst case scenario is the killer is bodyblocking a survivor up to 190 seconds (10 seconds grace period + 180 seconds of AFK points at 50% speed), before the survivor gets 3 crows, and loses collision.
29 -
True, I did not think of this. Makes its even worse.
12 -
Honestly super happy to see it, because it's very similiar to what I suggested a long time ago:
So many rare, but extremely annoying situations are solved by this.
-12 -
Wait, so even while standing still next to the killer, it still goes down so slow?
That's really dumb.
0 -
Good. Need less survivors trolling. For every killer bodyblocking I got 50 team of 2 survivors who decided they didn't want to do objectives anymore. It's not even in the same ballpark of frequency.
-23 -
The new AFK crow system already does that, except that survivors can't see the progress bar.
DBD can't show survivors the progress bar, because if survivors saw a progress bar, they could determine if undetectable killers were near them.
2 -
I think so. I'm assuming the game does this so that survivors can hide near the killer, and gain AFK points at 50% speed.
But I need to check if the game has a special rule for the killer being extremely close to the survivor (close enough to bodyblock), even though my intuition says they probably don't have a special rule for this, because if they did, then they probably could have easily made a better solution for extreme bodyblocking. And even if a special rule did exist, survivors would still be able to bodyblock each other up to 100 seconds (10 seconds grace period + 90 seconds at 100% AFK speed), before the bodyblocked survivor loses collision.
2 -
Hm. That seems like a grandiose oversight if that's indeed how it works.
8 -
I really hope that this thing will be adressed, for example like this:
- If a player is standing completely still within a 1,5 meter radius of a second player also standing still, the AFK timer progresses at a 200% speed.
2 -
The gatekeeping has gone really far out that now the Crows are the embodiment of the gatekeeping.
5 -
I wish the bodyblocking solution didn’t require the survivor to gain AFK crows, so that survivors wouldn’t need to ever gain AFK points faster than 100% speed.
Because that just seems stressful for survivors. What if two survivors jump into adjacent lockers to avoid BBQ… would they gain AFK points at 200%? What if two survivors are working on a generator and it becomes blocked… if they just stood there and waited for the generator to become unblocked, would they gain AFK points at 200%?
The game knows what a distance threshold is, since they’ve been using it for the AFK crow system. The game could just say if a survivor hasn’t moved over a distance threshold for 45 seconds, and hasn’t made any interactions for those 45 seconds, then they lose collision until they either move over the distance threshold or they make an interaction.
6 -
That'd be the more elegant and simple solution.
4 -
True, but these rules are WAY overtuned to account for the less frequent thing. They're extremely punishing of all survivors just because "What if they're being body-blocked and need to escape? Better give them crows!"
Multiply the time needed to gain crows by 2, and MAYBE then it would be ok.
9 -
Frankly you should start to accrue crows after 20-30 seconds instead, and also unhooking should definitely remove all your crows. There's no reason unhooking shouldn't remove crows and it feels a bit harsh to put Survs on such a strict time limit especially for new players. I worry this is too quick for those players.
You know how stressful it can feel to see gens pop quickly as Killer? Now Survs get to feel that stress because crows! Woooooo crows! What about perks that need you to sit in a locker for a second like Flashbang, or stay still for a second like Still Sight, or that force you to stand in place while using them like Bardic Inspiration? What about techniques such as using checkspots that some more experience players do, they are punished for doing them too much now and what, being good at the game? Why?
11 -
Yeah I'm one of those folks who is always on here annoyed about survivors who don't do anything, but from what I've seen from people playing on the PTB, the crows are currently way too harsh. Imagine running around trying to find Ruin, for example, and you're just getting crows. I actually wouldn't mind if it kicked in x amount of minutes into a game because I find most survivors are engaged at the start of a match, it's late match that they tend to give up.
11 -
I'm really interested in any videos people might have, where they're actually trying to do stuff, but the crows are happening too quickly.
Maybe hex totems actually are a problem, and some people really need like 5+ minutes to find them. Then maybe the solution is that if a survivor is affected by a hex, their AFK point speed gets heavily reduced if they are traveling a very large distance threshold (which is what they would be doing if they were looking for hexes). And the distance threshold is important, because if a survivor is affected by a hex, but they're just hiding in a locker, then they're obviously not really looking for hex totems.
Or, maybe all hex totems need to show their aura in at least a 16 meter radius, or maybe they need to be loud like boons, or maybe something else needs to happen so that survivors aren't spending 5+ minutes looking for them. I would be ok with hexes getting nerfed, if it meant the game could have a fair AFK crow system that punishes excessive hiding.
4 -
Great post to show how terrible this change is.
17 -
Survivors who are not doing anything, or worse, give up on the first down or because it's a Killer they hate, are the ones ruining rounds for me. NOT tunnelling, slugging, camping Killers (though yes that is also annoying). There have been enough carrots for Survs in the form of BP incentives, an anti-DC discouragement system, an anti hiding system, and SWF being a thing as well as the HUD update and perks. It's time for sticks to punish this behavior, it's actually out of control.
And no, it's not a Killer related issue, you cannot blame Killers for existing when Survivors do this stuff just because they can and they want to win. It's the exact same nonsense as tunnelling someone out at five gens, and has the same result - the game becomes artificially easier for the Killer, or annoys them into worse behavior. This is a Survivor issue. Survivors are doing this. I'm tired of pretending people I get paired with, either side, are innocent and can't ruin the game for everyone just because Killers do it too. SURVIVORS in this case are the problem, Survivors not playing the game by its established rules is the problem. I don't care what the cause is, DCing and hiding too much because screw their team, they wanna win, is the problem. A stronger penalty is the solution.
0 -
My issue with it is that if players are searching for totems and don't have the possible locations memorized on every variation of every map nor did they bring perks or items to help they are going to end up getting marked afk from running around looking for totems for too long, specifically you only lose crows when a cleansing is finished. This means that a full Hex build could be devastating as all the players would be counted as AFK unless they get lucky or are one of those rare players with the totem locations memorized.
8 -
So yet another system to secure that 4k? Slugging for the 4k is one of the biggest issues in the game and they somehow keep making it worse and worse for survivors with every patch.
10 -
Would it be better of the AFK point gain was paused, if only 2 survivors are alive, and 1 of the survivors is in the dying state?
Because that would stop the 4th survivor from gaining crows, when the killer is trying to slug for the 4k.
6 -
Sounds exploitable.
-2 -
Yes, that would definitely be way better, tho in general I have some issues with this system. I've heard of people saying they've been getting crows on the PTB while looking for a gen or a hex or when trying to go for a flashlight save.
8 -
Survivors only lose collision for 10 seconds.
And because the game doesn't directly tell survivors that they have 10 seconds of no collision (at least not in an obvious way), the survivors might not be aware that they have 10 seconds to move away.
3 -
I edited my original post, to add four new concerns to the list. These are concerns I’ve read from other people on these forums:
- A survivor gaining AFK crows when the killer is slugging for the 4k
- A survivor gaining AFK crows when they are legitimately trying to find a hex totem
- A survivor gaining AFK crows when they are legitimately trying to find a generator
- A survivor gaining AFK crows when Oni is in blood rush mode
9 -
I t seems to me like they're implementing one solution for two different problems - body blocking to grief players and extreme hiding / refusing to progress the game (which usually occurs when only 2 players are left with no hope of completing the remaining gens). But there really should be two different solutions for these problems, not one.
I'd hate to see hiding as a strategy to waste the Killers time being a casualty in fixing those issues. I'll quite often leave my gen to go hide in a loop, behind a rock or in a bush, because I know it can be just as effective as looping (especially if looping isn't one of your strengths). It seems like there will still be enough time for strategic hiding without gaining crows, but I guess I'll have to see for myself if that's still the case.
Part of the "problem" stems from the fact that you can "win" as Survivor by getting a hatch or gate escape even if your teams dies and you've failed to do your objective. This is actually one of the unique things I like about DBD, since aiming to be the last one standing in a desperate situation is what makes the majority of trials worth playing through.
But I increasingly feel like the devs are trying to push team work on Survivors regardless whether or not it's the smart play. There's still no comeback mechanic for when only two Survivors remain in the trial and therefore no reason to ever touch a gen. So you play more cautiously, hoping the other guy gets found first. Is this what's defined as "extreme hiding"? Maybe, but evading the Killer is really the only thing left to do that makes sense in this situation and now players will be punished for it?
I'd also like to know if constantly dropping and picking up your item to avoid getting crows will be patched out. Is that still in the game or did they fix that already? I've seen a lot of streamers doing challenges resort to this to keep their escape streaks going.
8 -
I'm sorry if I overlooked it, but what's the status on Invocations?
do I need to rush into the basement like a headless chicken?
2 -
After the new update, picking up and putting down an object won’t stop players from gaining AFK crows.
Survivors only need to repair for about 15 seconds to reset their AFK points. If they are hiding so much that they can’t manage 15 seconds of repairing, once every 2-3 minutes, then they probably are excessively hiding.-4 -
I mean, this still is just another nerf for survivors trying to play stealthy. Which is kind of dumb considering its a valid strat to not waste resources or yknow, try to survive by not being found?.
I kinda see why distortion had to be gutted, but this is just absurd.
10 -
As soon as the new AFK system is in full swing I'm quitting and so are my friends.
AFK means away from keyboard. The fact that this new afk system is being done at all is just feeding the killers and this game is getting nothing but worse and worse. It's an absolute joke. There is no more strategy or skill involved at this point. The main goal is for survivors to be in plain sight at all times (thousands of aura perks, visual perks, auditory perks etc) so the killer can kill everyone.
Lockers, totem cleansing, ducking behind walls, running the killer the entire match, running unkooks the entire match.. i mean i can go on and on about all the strategy that is being removed. All because the game is flooded with underage kids that cannot learn skill nor strategy and grew up entitled. So entitled that its a constant nurf on survivors and buffs on killers and now a new afk system that has NOTHING TO DO WITH ACTUALLY BEING AFK. How asinine is that. It's now going to be a micromanaged game to support killers. I have complained for years how easy it is to play killer and zero skill involved but hey, as long as no one has to think and games only last 10 minutes at most its a win I guess.14 -
Killer main here, and I agree with you completely. This new AFK system is terrible and will only make the game easier for me IN A BAD WAY. I do NOT want to win this way.
9 -
I mained Michael but got bored because it was too easy so I played survivor for a challenge. But its completely going micromanaged that there wont be any challenge either way.
2 -
I'll stick around but I think this may be it for my friends.
9 -
Nah, just do like 15 seconds of the gen just above the basement first. When the killer walks by they totally can't hear you doing your thing in the basement. Lol, so dumb. (Not you!)
5 -
Oh this is a relief, I misread and thought it was 10s for the first crow. Head on will be fine after all
1 -
I think Hens made a beginners guide that was pretty telling. It was decent enough, but made no mention of hiding as a strategy at all. No disrespect to Hens, but it's been a long time since he was a beginner. But I've only played DBD for 2 years and I remember what that was like. Hiding was pretty much all that I did for the first 100 - 200 hours of Survivor gameplay.
I'm now 2000 hours in and for me, sneaking around is still a better way to survive than looping, even with the Distortion nerf (you can kinda play around aura reads with locker use and running fixated to get a head start on Nowhere to Hide).
I don't like that the devs are pushing "loop or die" gameplay, but I also think they're just responding to player feedback and I guess most of us prefer playing Scooby Doo chase simulator.
7 -
the crappy maps almost kinda force it. what fo you do on Haddonfield vs Nurse besides just die? you bush tech lol.
I have fond memories of running Fixated + QnQ + OoO to "accidentally" reveal my aura while tbagging the killer thrn i walk to a locker and hide. seeing a Nurse start opening lockers, kick the gens,leave, come back, open lockers, kick gen, leave, but then they pretend to leave but actually double back, but I anticipate the double back and they still can't find me will always be amusing to me.
I understand killers hate that but that is what true stealth is; drawing aggro while burning zero resources .
9 -
If a survivor is legitimately hiding from the killer, do you think there could be a fair time limit? For example do you think 2 minutes is enough time for the survivor to move away from the area, or do you think killers are spending over 2 minutes searching an area for a survivor? If 2 minutes isn’t enough time, then would 4 minutes be enough time?
0 -
Why should there be a time limit? The point is to survive. The matches have a default 1hour timer. Regardless of what's been done by either party. If the survs havent escaped, if the killer hasn't killed them all then it just ends in 1 hour. It was totally fine back then, it was good. It was amazing to be in a challenge for an hour. Why does everyone need INSTANT gratification? It offer's nothing. It's all about accumulating as many points as you can from all the objectives which.. doing gen's give the least points yet this afk system is forcing gen focus. It's blatantly obvious this new afk system is catering only to killer mains and the killer mains that cannot succeed by skill and strategy. So the devs are doing it for them. Force all survs out in the open to allow killer to see and kill them all as quickly as possible to move on to the next round. Seriously who really likes rinse and repeat every 5-10 minutes? 🙄
4 -
BHVR wants to add a new AFK crow system to the game. If someone thinks the PTB's time limit for hiding is too short, but can offer a different time limit they feel is more fair, then that player is giving feedback on how to make the AFK crows more fair.
But if someone's answer is "any time limit is automatically unfair", then they are unwilling to offer suggestions to make the AFK crows more fair, because the only acceptable option for them is "never implement the new AFK crows".
And yes, it is valid feedback to say "never implement the new AFK crows". But if the AFK crows do go live, it doesn't help give feedback on how to make them more fair.
-2 -
don't high level people just run reshade and low settings so foliage is gone? i don't think bush tech is a thing at low settings or it nerfed a lot
3 -
or we can start using maps? i personally use maps since you never know if a killer is running a hex or if i want to run boons
-3 -
There have been some great discussions in this thread so far that have highlighted concerns we can keep an eye on (i.e. totem hunts), so thank you for that!
For those of you who had a chance to test this feature on the PTB, did any of you directly encounter scenarios where you received AFK crows, but felt they were unwarranted? If so, I'd love to know the specifics of what you were doing, as this is useful info that we can share with the folks working on this feature.11 -
A map should not be required to play the game without getting falsely flagged AFK.
5
