It happens again....
I don't understand you developers, did the Ghost Face PTB situation teach you anything?
Why does Animatronic have addons that give bonuses to the survivor? Bonuses received from the killer should not exist. These addons are garbage.
Moreover, in the case of the Animatronic, the survivors receive exactly the same bonuses as the killer!
What is the point of these addons then? Consider that they literally do not give anything.
I remind you that you have been developing this game for 9 years.
Comments
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For example that it massively increases your lunge, making it much easier to outplay loop. :) You're welcome.
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The bonus speed is the same for both sides, it does not increase the movement speed to overcome the loop during the chase. You're welcome.
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So why not treat it like Clown's yellow bottles since it practically has the same effect?
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the bonus speed is NOT the same btw, as the bonus is based on the default speed of each one. The killer having a higher default speed gets more speed from the 12% haste than the survivor. so yes the killer does get more speed
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It does affect your lunge, meaning your attack has longer distance plus it's much more to get hit with mindgames at smaller loops. So don't convince me about it.
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Because I use pink ones for chasing. Hello!
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I know, but in practice this speed is not significant. It is significant only when you lunge as a killer. But even if you take it for the lunge, the addon is still garbage because the difference in lunge is not big. And the difference in movement speed is almost unnoticeable.
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That's the problem with addons, you only see the difference in the lunge. But it's not even that big.
Well, like I've been playing against Animatronics with addons for speed for a more times now and they can't catch me in the lunge either.0 -
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And some people use the yellow bottles in chase as clown. Aloha.
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That's probably why I rarely see Clown in matches...
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Nope. 4.0 m/s is treated as default speed. A killers normal movement speed of 4.6 is classified as 115%, and all haste speed bonuses are based on 4.0 m/s. 12% is 0.48m/s regardless of what side you are playing.
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I already answered that I know.
But in practice the difference is not felt.
The difference is felt only when you do a lunge.-1 -
If from your point of view the addon makes a big difference in movement speed, then I ask you to post a video of several matches using addons for speed.
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I literally said that Survivors and Killers get the exact same movement speed bonus. What are you trying to argue?
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If you are talking about Foxy's Hook I very much disagree. It gives an equal amount of speed, but you decide where you throw the axe. And since you are the killer, you have more decision over where you go than the Survivors have over where they go. Especially paired with the Endo CPU, Foxy Hook is one of his best add ons.
If you are talking about the Celebration Poster I agree that it is bad, cause it needs to be with a Survivor to work and has a very long range.
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A lot of other people are already talking about the specifics of Foxy's Hook here (it's a solid addon) but I want to focus on this:
Why does Animatronic have addons that give bonuses to the survivor? Bonuses received from the killer should not exist.
I really don't understand why you'd be so close-minded about ideas like that. I think the idea of strong effects that also buff your opponent is a fun concept, and Celebrate Poster is a pretty fun addon. (though IMO they should revert the AoE)
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it literally is not, just look it up on the wiki. if a 4.6 killer has 10% haste, his final speed will be 4.6 * 1.1 = 5.06 m/s → there was a total addition of 0.46 m/s
a survivor with 10% haste would have 4.0 * 1.1 = 4.4 m/s → a total addition of 0.4 m/s
only bloodlust is a flat addition of 0.2/0.4/0.6 m/s (5%, 10%, 15% based on survivor speed i.e 4.0 m/s)4 -
Ah, sorry.
I didn't understand your message. I dumb.0 -
Because something similar happened on PTB with the Ghost Face change. Survivors were increasing their speed with perks, medkit with addon, and killer's addon. And then the fun became only for one side.
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Weird, I had this question mutliple times and everyone always told me it was based on 4.0
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This is incorrect. Haste (and Hindered) is based on a character's base speed. For a killer, this can be their default movement speed, the reduced movement speed while carrying a survivor, or their movement speed while using their power in some cases.
For survivors, the default movement speed that relates to their current form of movement is used, so while running it would be based on 4.0m/s but while walking it would be based on the default walking speed of 2.26m/s instead. Fixated for example (which is 20% haste) increases the survivor's speed while walking to 2.712m/s (and not 3.06m/s). The same rules apply to crouching and crawling as well.
So it is not always based on 4.0m/s, and back the topic at hand, the Celebrate Poster (and Foxy's Hook) do give Springtrap a larger increase in movement speed (in terms of m/s) than they give the survivor for this reason.
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So, few things:
The only negative thing is the 20% vault speed being applied to survivors, but Bamboozle alone combats that with ease.
The 12% haste to survivors translates to 13.8% haste to killer looking from a survivor perspective (killer base speed is 100% for killers, but its 115% relative to survivors, so 112% basespeed for killers is 128.8% relative to survivors).
Then lunging, is weird, because it is a multiplier to the 100% of killers (which is why Nurse's lunge is slightly shorter than Trapper's lunge), but its also its own base speed. Meaning that haste applies to it as is. So 12% on a 115% killer who lunges at 172.5% will not lunge at 184.5%, nor at 186.3%, but at 193.2%. That's 20.7% haste relative to survivors instead of 12%. You can legit mindgame pallets with that, even with the 20% speed they get.
The 20% vaulting speed is legitimately the only downside, because you're effectively giving them free Finesse, but again, Bamboozle alone will solve all your issues there. Plenty of addons that are better if you run a specific perk with it, not too big of a deal.1 -
The 110% and 115% of killers is based on the 4.0 from survivors. We tend to express the speed relative to survivors. Lunging for example, has 172.5% movementspeed, but its "only" a 50% speed increase for killers with 4.6 movement speed. (it's a 79% speed increase for nurse)
Which, in this era of DBD is odd, they could have reworked lunges in general to simply set the killers movement speed to 6.9. Plenty of killer abilities that are set to a certain speed when they are used. It doesnt matter too much, and I guess it could break more than it fixes at this point.1 -
Actually, the game already does do that, for years at this point.
Yes, originally 110 killers had a shorter lunge compared to 115 killers and Nurse had to have special code unique to her lunge to compensate. For years already, the lunge attack temporarily assumes a base speed of 4.6m/s to apply its 50% to, regardless of what the killer's actual base speed is. Killers have the same lunge range these days, as far as basic attacks are concerned. Special attacks can differ.
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Minor correction: it's not based on their base speed (i.e. a fixed value), but their current momentary movement speed, whatever it is. It's what allows survivors to transition between movement states (e.g. running, walking, crouching) and an on-going haste effect to apply to all of them.
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No, no they dont. They have different modifyers to their lunges to this day.
Nurse will lunge at 6.8915 m/s
110 killers will lunge at 6.8992 m/s
115 killers will lunge at 6.9 m/s
In fact, Spirit's post phase lunge uses the exact same multiplier as 110 lunges based on her phasing movementspeed. (aka, phasing speed*1.568).
They effectively have the same range, because even with the extended duration of Coup, we're talking about a difference of 9.936 meters vs 9.924 meters. That's 0.012 meters. As a comparison, ping alone can be a difference of 0.4 meters.
Their speed does not get set to 4.6 at the start of a lunge. You can tell because their movementspeed doesnt jump to 4.6 and then curves to 6.9, their movementspeed gradually curves to roughly 6.9, this would be very obvious on Nurse, yet Nurse follows a curve and doesnt suddenly jump in speed.
And yes, I know the wiki says it gets set to 4.6 since 2.2.0, that is incorrect information displayed. The movementspeeds section has actual datamined information, go and check the table and see that lunges have a multiplier.
Dont believe me? Why would they add a multiplier at all to 110 killers otherwise? Nurse got released with a 1.79 multiplier, 4.6 killers got a 1.5 multiplier and prior to 2.2.0 110 killers also used the 1.5x multiplier. IF the movementspeed got set to 4.6 at the start of the lunge, why add a 1.568 multiplier if its set to that speed anyway? Why have that multiplier inside the game to this day? If the movementspeed gets set to 4.6, why risk a Nurse specific bug by keeping the 1.79 multiplier in? Why not just delete the multiplier?
Here's why: patch 2.2.0 only tweaked 110 killers by changing the multiplier from 1.5 to 1.568. Not by setting the movementspeed to 4.6 whenever a killer holds m1 for longer than 2 frames.0 -
I love buffing survivors as 4.4 killer
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So, how's this addon playing?
"It's really powerful and doesn't ruin the game for killer." (Sarcasm)
I already wrote that the addon is complete crap, lol.0
