Trickster Update

Please leave your feedback for 9.5.0's Trickster update here. Thank you!

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Comments

  • Rickprado
    Rickprado Member Posts: 987
    edited February 24

    Well, its… strange.

    Trickster feel quite weak considering he is 4.4 now. You can run him almost the entire map with very little risk since he takes an eternity to catch up. BUT… in close range the new trickster is a beast: if you don't have anything to cut line of sight, you probably will go down in seconds.

    Maybe the purple addon that adds 1% per rank could be basekit?

    Needs more testing to say if trickster is strong or weak.

    Post edited by Rickprado on
  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 3,183
    edited February 24

    THANK YOU FOR MAKING TRICKSTER 110 AGAIN!!!!

    WHY AM I YELLING??

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 17,799

    Twisted on that one. On the one hand, I think it is deserved, since his Kit becomes more unique and overall better. But I also feel that mainly Trickster Mains will benefit from it and people who are playing him more casually or only play him occasionally will have a harder time.

    (But then, a Killer being 110% instead of 115% has never really been an issue and this was also not the case for Release Trickster)

  • TheGoon224
    TheGoon224 Member Posts: 469

    the update looks like a lot of fun and my controller playing ass is going to hate trying to aim with him👍

  • Escrowm
    Escrowm Member Posts: 7

    "You know the ricohet or aoe addons, I feel like he could use some funny dumb effects when you reach Rank S other than just flat bonuses. That isnt to say I think the rank system is boring, its just statically the background.

    This would be so fun

  • OneShape
    OneShape Member Posts: 10

    He is fun. I suck at trickster normally, but I have been ahving quite some success with this version, he is a bit punishing very easy hit and S rank if Survivors are caught out of position, but to make up for that a lot of loops still shut down his power a lot. I like it.

  • typervader
    typervader Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 576
    edited February 24

    Trickster Rework Feedback:

    First, revert him back to 4.6 and 8 knife hits. 6 knife hits is just kinda too strong and making him 4.4 doesnt feel keep. Keep his TR 24 meters.

    Revert the throw speed at default as well, back to 3.86 m/s

    Throw rate over time will now be tracked via t he power bar. At 5 throws, he he will 3.58 m/s.
    Second and thrid tiers of the throw rate and movespeed unchanged.

    After reacing the first throw rate, misses knives will now decrease his style decay timer.
    Knife hits will now give .5 style instead of full.

    The longer he goes without throwing a knife, increases the amount of style gained on a successful hit, up to 3. This resets if he misses.

    Laceration decay lowered more to 7 seconds, but hitting survivors with the stronger style knife will now increase their decay to 13 seconds.

    Style:

    Higher styles will now give him some of his old addons basekit:

    D rank is unchanged.

    C rank will now give him pericing blades, with more style gained for every survivor hit. Survivors in endurance will not gain laceration.

    B rank will now give him exploding knifes. These will give 2 laceration and increase the decay to 13 seconds, but will not increase style (but stops the decay)

    A rank will give him trick blades again. They can bounce up to 3 times. Survivors hit will gain more laceration for each bounce, and Trickster will gain more style if they hit. However, missing will decrease his style points by 2.

    Main Event:

    Main event throw movespeed is now 3.9 m/s.
    Duration is increased to 12 seconds.

    Any action that would give him style will increase main event active time.

    Readd the Combo system: When his combo meter is full, Trickster will regen up to 5 knifes back, temeporly will pause style decay and point gain, and stop laceration on survivors. This would last for 5 seconds.


    Some of these might be werid, but i think the problem is him spamming knfies is far, far too strong right now. He can almost get instantly s rank by just spamming with no aiim.

    I want to encourge tricksters being smart with better aiming, and rewarding going for more risky shots, without completying killing spam.

    Main event is also just kinda bad right now. The S rank buffs are almost more worth it then main event currently.

  • LazyClown
    LazyClown Member Posts: 189

    Can we just remove the anti camp and bring back hook grabs? Don't mind the bt 15 seconds stuff, but this crap where we can't defend the hook to avoid ds otr etc. is kinda dumb tbh.

  • OneShape
    OneShape Member Posts: 10

    He is completely fine at 4.4, he does not need to be 4.6.

  • NotJared
    NotJared Member Posts: 750
    edited February 24

    I'm finding the Trickster update to be INCREDIBLY fun!

    I do find myself wanting to play this version a lot, and more importantly I look forward to versing him even more than I used to with these changes. Currently I despise playing against Trickster on Live Servers, and playing as him is not super enjoyable.

    I do fear that there is another case where many are freaking out by number changes without actually playing the PTB, because any number going down = bad. I don't mean to dismiss anyone's experiences, but we also must consider that some players may also just simply be bad at aiming and their PTB woes could stem from that.

    I implore any balance changes made to be done very carefully - players freaked out over the numbers on the Myers rework, and he got omega-buffed to the point of being almost uncounterable and he has gone from one of the funnest killers in the game to one of the most miserable.

    I totally disagree with this update being a nerf, and I think buffing Trickster terribly much could easily catapult him into being absolutely miserable to face once again.

    Making Trickster 4.4 was a great idea because it forces him to have to use his power - I don't think ranged killers should have the option of walking players down, especially now that he can pull up his power and throw faster, which should make it easier to hit Survivors before they turn corners.

    Currently, on Live Servers, him being 4.6 makes him feels pretty hopeless to verse - if you try to loop, he can just walk you down; if you try to stun him, he'll lacerate you and injure/down you; if you try to greed pallets, he'll walk you down; if you try to leave, he just mows you down with knives. You're put into A LOT of lose/lose scenarios thanks to the 4.6 m/s, and reducing it forces the Killer to have to make a lot more interesting decisions that create more engaging gameplay loop-to-loop.

    However, playing as him on PTB, he feels incredibly satisfying and fun to play. AND, most importantly, he feels fairer to go against. Trickster is genuinely one of the most miserable Killers to go against on Live Servers, IMO. Reducing the laceration timer and making it possible for Survivors to have a chance at outlasting it feels very good on the Survivor end of gameplay.

    Making him slow down as he gets faster is also a great idea - higher lethality at a price of needing accuracy.

    As someone who always struggled with getting Trickster downs, I find that as I rank up my Style Grade, I become absolutely Unstoppable, and it feels so nice to feel like I get more powerful at Trickster as the match goes on.

    Aside from the balance changes, I do love all of the new sounds and chase music - I think they suit him much better than the previous sound design! However, it sounds way too 8-bit and video-gamey rather than K-Pop idol-y.

  • mooasis
    mooasis Member Posts: 120

    the style mechanic is super cool but its very passive, too easy to rank up and not at all modular enough imo

    because landing blades is his main mechanic the first-hit blade point should be removed, and instead be replaced by a gain of 0.3 style points per blade. landing an m1 injury definitely shouldnt be equally as fruitful as a blade injury, nor should your efforts in landing blades be ignored if a survivor makes a mistake that puts them in m1 range
    first-time and unique (non-consecutive) hooks should give a bonus 0.5 style
    "Hitting a Survivor with 4 Blades from at least 4m (without missing or exiting the Throw State)." should be changed to "hitting a survivor with 4 blades in a row without missing" and grant a smaller bonus
    all of this can of course have numbers tweaked and made more specific, but the main idea is that we should have actions that can give decimals of style points to be able to much easier fine tune the speed style is accrued

    for E-A rank rather than having a flat timer for style, the timer should be based on your current style points, constantly go down and be replenished/progressed towards the next rank by doing any action that increases style. style points should also wrap around each rank to make it a more smooth progression (eg if the gap between E and D rank is 2 style points and you have 0, earning 3 style points would automatically add 1 style point to D)

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 3,338

    [Copy & paste feedback from my other thread.]

    While the style mechanic is nice and all, it doesn't feel like there's enough incentive to actively engage with the style meter, since spamming knives still downs Survivors just as fast as before during chases, therefore that will still ends up being the more reliable thing to end chases faster.

    Therefore, here's what i would want to see changed.

    • Lower style rank = Requires more knives to get a Survivor's laceration meter full.
    • Higher style rank = Requires fewer knives to get a Survivor's laceration meter full.
    • Certain skillful actions should reward with more style points. Some examples of this could be the following: Hitting or injuring Survivors with knives through small holes or from afar. Hitting Survivors with the Trick Blade add-on, after a blade have performed maximum amounts of ricochets before hitting a Survivor.
    • The higher Trickster's style rank is, the higher amount of bloodpoints Trickster receive in general from all actions performed.
  • NotJared
    NotJared Member Posts: 750
    edited February 24

    I don't think it's a good thing for ranged killers to walk you down - being close-range is already dangerous because he can hit his ranged attack easier. This reduces counterplay for Surivors.

    I don't understand why it's okay for Trickster to be 4.6 but not other ranged Killers like Huntress, or Deathslinger.

  • Rogue11
    Rogue11 Member Posts: 2,070

    He should stay 4.4. Make changes carefully as needed in other areas but trying to loop a ranged 4.6 killer is not fun when half the tiles on most maps he can just freely hit you over. There are a billion very usable haste perks on the killer side that can be used to increase his speed if players are that desperate to do so.

    Please dont make another make-a-wish myers rework.

  • Rogue11
    Rogue11 Member Posts: 2,070
    1. Those killers all have very limited range attacks that would be better classed as antiloop than a true ranged attack.
    2. What happens when any of those killers misses/gets dodged? Oh right they have a short cooldown where a survivor can potentially make distance and reach a stronger tile. Trickster can be 4.6 when he has a 3 second cooldown after missing a ranged attack like all the killers you mentioned.
  • jasonq500
    jasonq500 Member Posts: 469
    edited 2:18AM

    the trickster changes are overall better and pretty enjoyable now in my opinion 👍

    Though it could use some adjustments as he still not that good, so here are a couple of changes that trickster should have

    • increase amount of knives back to 44 second (don't know why that got decreased)
    • Increase laceration decays to 14 seconds (12 seconds is way too low considering how slow he is at 4.4)
    • Death rows compilation addons: blades refill by 100 percent when main event ends (glad the add-on is back, but bringing it back to 100 percent would be better in my opinion)
    • Slightly increase his knife throwing speed (his knife throwing speed feels rather slow making it a bit sluggish, increasing its speed slightly would make it much better)
  • lostixe
    lostixe Member Posts: 2

    A console player's thoughts on the Comeback PTB

    • I love that Trickster got the Legion treatment with his add-ons changing his chase music. But sometimes I find it really difficult to hear the changed due to his current one (Live) overlapping it. His live chase music has a ton of things going on with it, like the sirens, and synths. The PTB chase music, I LOVE and adds so much more flair and character to Trickster. Unfortunately, I play DBD on console, so I only watch videos and streams to look at the upcoming content. I didn't even notice that Trickster had received new chase music until someone pointed it out in twitch chats. It's quite hard to hear the new music, yes, it's there with the synths and bass, but I feel like the live chase music that he has overlaps the new ones too loudly. However the sound jingles for the rank up and rank downs for his grades are ear candy thank you Behaviour!!

    • Various add-ons should be reverted or adjusted, please, please, please refer to Revvium for the specific add-on changes.

    • I have mained Yun-Jin since she released with Trickster, and seeing her with no new menu music or voice-lines makes me really dissapointed. Seeing Tae-Young speak to her in Lobby, and hearing no reply back, hurts. Especially there are other survivors in the game that talk to each other, like Thalita and Renato for 1 example. I was really expecting something for Yun-jin for part 2 of All-Kill. Trickster even has MORE voice lines added on top of his old ones…

    • I understand with Trickster's Memento Blades add-on that you would like to assist console players, but Trickster aims slightly to the left and right of the screen not directly in the middle, like the reticle suggests. Please have crosshair options instead of dedicating an ENTIRE add-on that isn't accurate to begin with.

    • Please revert his maximum blade count to 44.

    • Please have the movement speed during Main Event be increased. I have seen other players complaining about Main Event being too slow for the amount of effort that goes into achieving S Rank

    And lastly, DO NOT revert Trickster's movement speed back to 4.6, UNLESS if it is during Main Event.

    These are just some of the observations i've seen from watching streams and looking at discussions of other Trickster mains.

    Again, Revvium makes so many logical points on PTB Trickster, refer to them!

  • MrPresident69
    MrPresident69 Member Posts: 1

    I love EVERYTHING about Trickster changes, he feels really fun and satisfying to play. New style rank system is fun and I like how he's more about precise blade throws again over just spamming them at survivors without thinking.

    I have one single complaint which is new chase music + style level up sounds. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love, love, LOVE the idea of Trickster having different variants for his chase theme, I've been literally dreaming for him to get this since they've been added to Legion.

    That being said currently on PTB both chase music and rank style sounds feel too "arcade-like" instead of "kpop-like". I think they kinda clash with Trickster's identity and also with his original chase theme. His new chase themes sound good on their own but when put on top of his old one, it just feels a bit weird and sometimes even overwhelming, kinda like listening to 2 different songs at the same time + once again they sound a bit too "arcadey", they remind me of old games and 8-bit songs.

    If possible, please change new chase themes and rank level up sounds to feel more "kpopey", Trickster is supposed to be musician and idol, not a hardcore gamer 🙏

  • XombieJoker
    XombieJoker Member Posts: 103

    I'm not an avid Trickster player, in fact, ever since Huntress Hatchets have been exploding mid air on NOTHING, range projectile killers have not been feeling fun for me. This update to Trickster does feel thematically good for him and it does make it a little more fun to play as, but in my opinion, he is objectively weaker.

    Movement speed kicked back down to 4.4m/s. Blade count to 36 (with my rusty aim I never knew how easy it was to run out of ammo with only 1 or 2 hits needed to finish a Survivor). Time to aim knives 0.5 seconds faster (slightly noticeable), with a cooldown 0.1 second faster when cancelling aiming knives (impossible for the eye to recognize). With a cooldown of 0.03 seconds between knife throws (also impossible to discern).

    Movement speed while aiming knives cut back down to 3.68m/s with further penalties for throwing consecutive knives, but you get faster throw rate with these penalties as compensation which is not worth it in my opinion.

    Lacerations counting as whole numbers meaning 2 fan favorite add-ons (from what I've been hearing) were gutted ( the piercing and AoE knives). Once again the number of knives for an injury is back down to 6 but the delay before Laceration decay slumped down to 12 seconds AT THE SAME TIME that we break his ankles and have him moving at 4.4 and 3.68m/s. But hey the time it takes for a single Laceration stack to be removed once the delay has fully completed is 3 seconds up from 2. Once again this is meaningless when Trickster is limping at 4.4m/s.

    Style Points I don't really have an issue with their build up or the Style Ranks in general except for if Survivors decide to rat and hide very well, you lose Style grades that isn't your fault. I feel like Main Event is also not super great, it happens far less in a match and that's ok, but with my experience, every time I unlocked it to use, the Survivor was already injured and using Main Event did not seem worth using. With that decision, I often saved it just to have a hard time finding a Survivor in an opportunistic position to use it before I lost the S grade.

    As for the add-ons:

    Memento Blades - I don't know why an X was chosen for this, sure it's accurate throwing at someone 30m away but closer the knives fly to the left and right of it for the respective hand that throws it which can be misleading for a new to Trickster player.

    Killing Part Chords, Inferno Wires, Ji-Woon's Autograph, Caged Heart Shoes, Tequilla Moonrock, Bloody Boa, On Target Single, Fizz-Spin Soda, Waiting for You Watch, Edge of Revival Album all have very minute buffs to their respective effects or has a high difficulty to get use out of like Edge of Revival Album. Bloody Boa increasing the time to remove a Laceration stack from 3 to 3.3 seconds ain't a strong enough buff or effect on a Killer that walks slower. Caged Heart Shoes increasing Throw Movement speed by 1% when Tricksters current Live version moves at 3.8 with 2 add-ons that increase it by +1% and +2.5%.

    Ripper Brace is also pretty weak but better than most of his new add-ons

    Unfortunately this update to Trickster is largely nerfs with the Style system used to try and distract from the nerfs like "Hey don't worry bout those nerfs and instead, look at this SHINY NEW TOY, look at it, dingly dangly dungly dingle, look at this shiny new thing, isn't it awesome and spectacular, like have you seen a more impressive trinket in your life?"

  • IzalethDemi
    IzalethDemi Member Posts: 1

    The nerf to his movement speed only serves to make him weaker, especially since he slows down even more when throwing knives now. Trickster has a really unique niche of a speedier ranged character with weaker individual projectiles. It makes sense for Huntress or Deathslinger to be 4.4, given that they only need one tap to injure. However, Trickster needs both line of sight and constant hits to injure, so making him slower, even moreso when he's throwing knives, severely hurts his lethality.

    The new voice lines and sound effects are really tasty, and help to bring a lot more personality to the character. Trickster has always been in my top five killers due to his personality and gameplay, so I'm really happy that the former is being given even more attention!

  • JDecker
    JDecker Member Posts: 30

    The style system is fun, but the crucial Main Event is outdated, so it is still weak against loop around high walls, and I think the situations in which the main event are useful against survivors who can perform skilled chases will be quite limited.
    What about giving Trickster, quick movement speed for just 0.5-1 second at the start of the main event (knife flipping)? By activating the main event, he can close the distance between himself and the survivors a bit, which I think this gives the main event a clear use.

    The add-on "Cut Thru U Single" is currently essential, and there are almost no options without this add-on. It goes without saying how important the speed buff is for 4.4 killer who do not have special fast movement abilities.
    I think this kind of effect would be good to have in the base kit.

    (Excuse me, I'm not good at speaking in English.)

  • CelineStilinski
    CelineStilinski Member Posts: 4

    I would like to preface this review by saying that Trickster's playstyle, if you're a good player, is NOT camping and tunnelling like someone seems to think in these reviews, he's in his current live state a good chase and anti loop character. (And if you need to tunnel and camp to win games…… no comments).

    Let's talk good things first : the new voicelines are so nice, the UI feels really nice. The music and sound design is incredible, the team did amazing on that! I loveeee his new little animations and when he spawnnn, sooo cute. I still get consistent main events, although slightly less so it somehow feels less oppressive to play against, although it feels really short. The effects on the ranking up feels like you're doing something and it feels rewarding, even if it doesn't change anything at all unless you're running the Cut Thru U Single add-on (the one that gives stackable 1% of speed on ranking up) and even then… It feels nice only at A and S ranks. (And with quick maths, I realized that's when you get back to 4.6m/s thanks to it.)

    So here comes the bad… The base speed. Everything else is fine by me for the most part. Even the slower speed while throwing knives. I got really good knife hits, even on the newest map and didn't feel handicapped by the slowing down (although I'm not a knife spammer unless they're in a straight line, on spammy playstyles, it could feel really different).

    But oh my god THE BASE SPEED. You get out ran, in a simple loop if that loop has high walls and you're unlucky enough to not have bloodlust trigger. I got outran by a Ripley, even while cutting her off and taking the most optimal route (shorter one, cutting diagonal), because the rank dropped low enough and I didn't have knives on me to get it back up to get a higher speed (Only 5, after a previous chase, in end-game, and we don't talk about the new maps' locker positions XD). And that's with the Cut Thru add-on. Since Ji-Woon is so slow, it's so hard to actually get value from the combos to get higher rank, if you stop to break a gen, a pallet, etc. The survivor is at the other side of the map.

    It was still a good map (11 hooks), but the only reason I could catch survivors is because I ran aura perks and could cut them off since the map isn't known too well yet.

    Also, I feel like his hit box is a little weird with the newer animations, when turning and stuff, because I kept getting stuns by pallets I was not close to enough for it to hit me. (Not lag, as me and the survivors had similar pings). They were all running the newest survivor's perk, but I'm slightly douteful it was just the stun speed. Putting it there in case it's a Trickster thing and not a perk thing.

  • Emeal
    Emeal Member Posts: 6,777

    Can we have some reasoning why his speed was nerfed?? It seems entirely detrimental to new players who want to play Trickster who will suffer due to poor aim and loss of distance. I thought this update was supposed to make Trickster more inviting to new players but its one step forward and two back-

    Like idd love to know what you guys are thinking here, because it seems unintelligable to alot of people and I know I know BHVR are observing the issue right now, but its super annoying that you never seem to fully elaborate or justify to us why the changes you do need to happen.

    Its just a bitter pill we have to swallow as players and then trust you on it.
    This whole balance operation runs on faith and the will BHVR has to stamp out irrigularities.
    But we never get told why and why not which is very very very annoying to experience.

  • Triccyboi
    Triccyboi Member Posts: 2
    edited 11:23AM

    The style system is a really fun additional micromanaging part of the killer, he's given a lot of extra character with all his laughs and voicelines, and the killer instinct in main event is a very welcome bit of extra info. My big complaint is that he just feels awful dropping back down to 4.4m movement speed. I know lots of things speed him up, like the add on and whatnot, but he felt so sluggish before and he's back to feeling sluggish again. He doesn't have any built in slow down or massive mobility, the only thing he really has going for him is a strong chase power, I just don't think 4.4m is justified on him. If these changes were kept AND he stayed a 4.6m killer, I think he'd be in a really good spot. Otherwise yeah they are fun updates to him

    Additionally, can the crosshair please just be an option that can be toggled in the settings instead of locking it behind an add on? Then it's just forcing new players to play with only one add on