Survivors are abusing a bugged perk.
Comments
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This.
How ever am I gonna get those easy Exit Gate rituals now?
If a hotfix doesn't come soon enough, I expect the perk to be removed from being able to be equipped.
HOW did so many bugs get to live version from the PTB?
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Oh my GOD dude. THIS, 100%
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Punishment follows a knowingly illicit behavior, otherwise it is arbitrary harassment.
Mens rea and actus rea. The devs have already stated they record a player's game patterns. Using these patterns, we can establish what is incidental use and what is intentional abuse. Intention can be comprehensively inferred, and the act is documented. Furthermore, it is acceptable for them to only punish clear cut cases. Anything is better than nothing. As it is now, we aren't punishing every single person for D/Cing, so why assume this would be any different?
I only say that writing an explicit announcement about the prohibition of using a certain perk, because bugged, it does not cost anything, prevents many players from being punished
The cost of anarchy is dealt to those whose experience is ruined by the offenders' behavior. Furthermore, it sets an ineffective precedent that harms the community. Players already know what is right and what is wrong; this is advertised in both the ToS, the forum, and it is common sense. It is juvenile and negligent to assume otherwise.
Yet the developers' approach has only led to rampant abuse, not only in this situation, but in all aspects of the game. Players do not have trust in the report system. They need to change their approach, and both the past and present is evidence of this. This is what actually leads people to leave in droves: disappointment and unfairness.
In terms of mere convenience, it would be self-defeating to punish the players for a development error: they would feel abused, used as scapegoats to hide the developers' wrongs, and would abandon the game en masse.
Offenders are not children that cannot distinguish their faults from others'. They are adults that will use whatever excuse to absolve guilt. If a light punishment is enough for them to "abandon the game en masse", then it is their problem, not the game's.
Your idea of punishing everyone, punishing immediately, punishing without warning, seems to be the daughter of a blind rage, which demands a sort of implacable revenge.
"Everyone" is not abusing these bugs. Punishment needs to be reasonably swift after the behavior, as the cause and effect need to be apparent. It is an established facet of behavioral psychology, not "implacable revenge." Furthermore, I only ask for the devs to safeguard the integrity of their game, as they are expected. I am not asking for a crusade, so please don't exaggerate and attack my character.
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Wake up, prove thyself, toolbox, 8 sec gens. gg not touching killer until this is fix
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Ok so here's my thing right. There are people that actively use some of these perks that are glitched before they were glitched. Also said people don't check the forums so they don't know its glitched. If they come into a game hop on a gen and see its going crazy faster than usual y'all saying they just suppose to stop doing the gen, turn their game off, come back online and switch their character and perks cause they are suppose to accurately know that at least 1 of those things are bugged? That doesn't even make sense lol. If you are to get banned because you didn't do that then something is truly wrong out here lol. How does the information about something being glitched even get out? There's no way that 1 person is just out there testing every perk or survivor or killer or add on every game to see what's broken? No way could they accurately guess that. So the release has to be getting out some other way. Also i hear some of the bugs weren't even on the ptb. Sooooo yea. I just think something is really sus about that, and for a fact you can't expect people to always know about a glitch until they say it in game. People don't have to look at the dbd twitter, or the forums. Also 1 of these perks being used that is supposedly forum consensus glitched atm I regularly used when i would no mither. Which the devs can see how many times i have done so way before this stuff came out. So how could i be to blame for that if i was actively using it beforehand?
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I mean, the double blade combo is bugged again, I believe. If they decide to ban for one, I'd hope they'd ban for the other, but who knows? They haven't announced that they'd ban for certain perk bugs in the past (Tinkerer, for example). They should just fix it, though, imo.
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@Visionmaker Monitoring the style of play proves material conduct, not psychological awareness. If you show that I go to a certain restaurant every day, you have experienced the fact, not its illegality (I eat wherever I like); if, instead, the restaurant is publicly declared not up to standard and I continue to frequent it, we can discuss some of my complicity and responsibility. Is the perk broken? Very well, write it in large letters in the game and nobody can say that they are in good faith. On the contrary, keeping hidden that a perk is buggy and yet claiming that the players know and abstain from using it would be irrational and vexatious. If there is a dangerous hole in the road, the owner body must signal it and blind it, it cannot say: "Eh, you can see it, arrange yourself...".
What anarchy? If the reporting system does not work, the best solution is transparency: more information, more details, also to avoid false reports of non-bannable behavior, and more informed behavior, that's what is needed.
The players are customers: if they abandon the game en masse, the developers suffer a serious damage, they are forced to reduce the expenses to the detriment of the quality and also the other players are affected. You put the need for punishment before the need to maintain a loyal player base; I, on the other hand, prefer clarity, loyal cooperation, prevention, which protects honest players and leaves no loopholes to the profiteers.
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Monitoring the style of play proves material conduct, not psychological awareness. if, instead, the restaurant is publicly declared not up to standard and I continue to frequent it, we can discuss some of my complicity and responsibility.
@Entità And in the event that you suddenly and now daily frequent the same restaurant that you scarce paid more than three visits to over the last year? What if you started bringing your friends? What if one the patrons even told you - or an outsider heard you on record? How far can it go where we chalk it off to coincidence?
What anarchy? If the reporting system does not work, the best solution is transparency: more information, more details, also to avoid false reports of non-bannable behavior, and more informed behavior, that's what is needed.
A lack of governance is anarchy. The better question is when were we not an anarchy? I can agree that we need transparency because evidence of its effectiveness is lacking.
The players are customers: if they abandon the game en masse, the developers suffer a serious damage, they are forced to reduce the expenses to the detriment of the quality and also the other players are affected. You put the need for punishment before the need to maintain a loyal player base; I, on the other hand, prefer clarity, loyal cooperation, prevention, which protects honest players and leaves no loopholes to the profiteers.
The devs need to make clear who they prioritize: customers that flagrantly disobey the standards of behavior or customers that are unduly punished by those people. I think you heavily overestimate the number of people who have clearly broken the rules and the importance of the "loyalty" of that select few.
Punishment and reinforcement are necessary for changing behavior. It is a fact not up for moral debate. People should be punished when doing the wrong thing and rewarded for doing the right thing. What we have now is the reverse. Societies, big or small, cannot function without this basic principle.
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i think you're choosing the wrong hill to die on if you're going to try and say that somebody who has never used wake up during their entire playtime but mysteriously begins using it once it becomes public knowledge that the perk is bugged and confers an unintended advantage to the person using it isn't certainly doing so knowingly
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@Visionmaker I fear you miss the essential concept of freedom: doing whatever you want, without obligation of warning or motivation, without trampling on the rights of others. The sudden change of habits is irrelevant: if I want to have lunch here or there, try a restaurant that has been neglected before and therefore frequent it assiduously, they are essentially my business: if I do it for the sake of food, because I want to try with the nice waitress, because I have commitments to be done in that neighborhood, because I rolled some dice and I decided so, because I see a beautiful view, because a friend recommended it to me, because it is easy to find parking or for a thousand other reasons, I do not have to explain to anyone.
The same is true for perks legitimately unlocked with a character. I have my own build with Claudette and my build with Myers, but both have all the perks: if I want to try a new combination, or no combination, or just use one or two or three perks, meta perks or junk perks, it's my business and no one can intrude.
The choice of perks as restaurants is an intrinsically legitimate, common and physiological action: if a prohibition arises for exceptional reasons, this must be announced with a resonance proportional to the gravity of the exception.
If I never go out at night and suddenly go out every night, I don't have to report to anyone: if the state wants to impose a curfew, announce it with official and public proclamations, and only then it can punish me for leaving at night. Until then, I will be master of changing my habits as I please.
Punishment and reinforcement... People are not dogs to be trained with the cookie if they act as the owner wants. You have a somewhat authoritarian conception of society: people and dogs are different, and deserve different treatments.
And above all you pour into a video game a kind of animosity for the social ills of today. We should give things the right weight. As the BHVR rightly announces patch notes and new cosmetics in the game, so it can announce temporary prohibitions for failures to certain perks. Easy, immediate, effective, just: the innocent will be protected, the guilty will have no excuse, it's a win-win option.
Instead you are against the announcement, because you assume that anyone who uses the perk, or starts using it now, is guilty: the risk of punishing casual players, players outside the forum, players who start the trial without too many strategies, just to have fun for an hour in the afternoon, it is high; and, at the same time, the silence on the ban offers an easy excuse to the guilty: "But how? The developers are wrong to program the game, do not bother to warn us, and then they ban us too?", so it is a lose-lose option.
@miaasma What I have just written above is an answer even to your objections.
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The only reason queues are so long rn is cuz they changed the system. To get into a lobby the game waits for 4 potential survs to join a lobby when it's made, that way when the lobby loads, you'll already have a full lobby. I think @Peanits mentioned this somewhere in the forums, but the new system change is trash pls revert it, it was so easy to queue before u would get a lobby in like less than minute what was the point of changing it.
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They HAVE to disable the perk.
@Peanits @not_Queen The higher up the ranks you go the more this is showing up. AKA: the more the players know, the more likely this is to show up. At purple at least half the game has it, and that's not fun. Im pretty sure it's stacking with other speed buffs too, like toolboxes. Because I'm seeing them take them too, and games are getting done in 2-3 mins.
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Double standard at its finest. Legion's players didn't deserve the ban then I guess.
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@SmokePotion Yes, to disable the bugged perk, any bugged resource (perk, add-on, offering...), it would be the best solution. Until this will be done, people should be warned not to use it, and punished if they ignore the announcement.
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Sorry, I don't believe that. If you can see who's abusing it, why have you not sent them all a message already stating you are aware of what they're doing and will ban them if they continue?
Surely the smart thing to do would be to remove the perk until it's fixed? Instead of allowing players to abuse each match until you've decided what you want to do.
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I find it funny they have to "decide" to ban the Survivor players, yet when Legion's stuff was bugged, they were swift with banhammers.
Have that same energy BHVR. Oh wait, that's Survivor $$$
I forgot.
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Wait it could be 4 people using stacks of leader together creating a x3 stack in speed
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Yea if you're the only survivor, with the left behind buff of course you could do it with all that but you'll never be in that situation because closing the hatch puts a stop to it , the gens will never be even double that time in a normal game and any sane survivor should be finding the hatch if they're alone or trying to get be near a gate for when the hatch closes not repairing remaining gens
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Only people who were dumb enough to use it after they issued a warning got banned , no one else did I know a couple of people who told me they used it before the warning regularly and then stopped after and nothing happened, the real question is where is the warning? You can't just go senselessly banning people so where are the behaviour representatives saying "don't run this perk or you could be banned"?... They aren't , and that's why people who don't care will continue to do so
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Realistically they are just going to fix the perk in the Gf hotfix and not ban anyone.
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That's what I think, people who are stretching for a ban without an official announcement are dreaming it's not gonna happen unless they warn everyone because not everyone is on the forums and some average Joe who doesn't read all patch notes and just glances over the announcement banner who ran the perk before might think it was just a buff to the perk , not everyone plays this game 24/7 , what about the newbies? We gonna ban them for going for adept Quentin and running a perk they don't even understand is bugged but works well?
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@Jonathanskilz What are you telling us? That perk doesn't give more bloodpoints.
And of course you can't use the perk when you know that it is bugged.
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@Visionmaker I seen your posts.. LULs.... good luck with that one. @Entità doesn't even have to explain that one to you in such detail, even though it was nice for them to do so. Nothing is gonna happen until the Devs come out and say they will ban you for it.
If they banned all the survivors for it now, they would risk losing them completely for not informing them, since many might not even know. We here on the forums are the small and few compared to the rest.
Just like the Legion mending bug, they didn't ban anyone until they announced it in game, and even then if you used it only once they didn't.... it was only if you were excessively abusing it.
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I don't even know why I wrote what I wrote above about the garbage angle you are coming at. Good luck though... See you in the fog.
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Double Standard Indeed.
Also, to @PolarBear it has been noticed by myself even.
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It's sad that this is so easy to detect because the perk is so terrible that nobody would use it outside of a bug.
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They don't test anything, they rush content out so people have a reason too put more money in this game (me included).
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This is stupid on so many forms. They should ban everyone who abused this bug because they are knowingly and willingly exploiting a bug too end games faster then they should.
It's not the games fault, its the gamers who should know better.
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Guess there was a reason too run object xD
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Do you really want the devs to ban people that are using/abusing this perk? Think about it man, killer queues are already extremely painful. Last thing this game needs is a mass ban wave on survivor mains.
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you know guys... you could just disable the perk while working on a fix. but yeah let's ban ppl for playing your game and perks... sigh
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I hate it when ######### like this is right. But it's the truth as much as it pains me to admit.
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Well, that's exactly what happened for survivors in these 3 years.
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and it appears disabling a perk like you where able to disable hollowed blight offerings is way too much effort, are hotfixing that expensive?
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With all the arguing, it seems people are missing something important.
As @Peanits said; 'We can see everyone who's abusing it.'
If they can see perk use, they can see WHEN people began using such perks.
This means, if you ran Wake Up! allot BEFORE it bugged, they will know you are probably not abusing it, or assume you Just Don't Know.
If, on the other hand, you STARTED running it every. single. match. after it being bugged became public knowledge, they may believe you started using it BECAUSE it's broken, thus deciding to abuse the bug.
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I'd personally find it hard to believe that they would ban anyone yet. They need to make an announcement about the perk and add-ons being bugged and tell players they will get banned because of it.
Or the option I prefer is lock the perks and add-ons from being used for a short period of time till it's fixed. They did it when ormond was bugged so I'd hope they do it again now.
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Realistically, how many survivors who don't know the bug are even going too run Wake Up unless its for adept quentin? They should get banned because they are making games damn near impossible. Although i agree an announcement in-game should be done as well, but those who do run it for anything other then adept quentin should get banned.
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Pretty sad when they even exploit the game and still can't win. Either way have you guys decided on what yous are gonna do about these players? I personally find it unfair to ban legion players that used 'infinite' mending add-ons which essentially are a 'perk' for a killer's power. Yet, a perk erasing the survivor objective which is almost the exact opposite seems to be questioned? Because it is clearly being abused the same fashion.
(Would be neat if these players were forced into matches vs noed/devour hope/haunted grounds that seem to be 'bugged' and always have max stacks and in effect. Would consider it fair play LOL)
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They put it on the load screen
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A bug of equal severeness and it doesn't get put on the load screen. It screams bias unlike Add-ons that perk never goes away.
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