How do you define winning in dbd?
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If the game tells me I won, so a pip.
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Fun who plays games to have fun?
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Obviously no one. :P
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I define winning by how much fun I had, either side. If I am playing survivor, and get my behind kicked, yet still considered it a fun match? It's a win. I guess the more hours you end up with in the game, the less you really care about killing or escaping.
As killer, I consider getting told I scared the ######### out of them, even if they all escaped and I depipped, I still won. I reminded them this game can still be scary.
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Pleasing the emblem gods and getting the PIP. I've had many 4Ks and escapes that really didn't feel rewarding. If I double PIP AKA the pip pip hooray, then I was getting busy no doubt. Mainly with some of the killers you'll sometimes pull off the objective by the hair of your chinny chin chin and the effort involved doesn't really reflect but when it does you feel like you earned it.
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Enjoying playing the game.
Which is why all the arguments about "swf are op I just dodge" and "I cant believe I didnt pip with a 4k #########" and everything else like that is absolutely absurd.
It's a game, that by its nature can never be perfectly balanced. You will have easy games, and hard games. But if you're not having fun by playing (not by getting 4k or 4 escape every game) then maybe go play something else and stop raging.
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Right now I am grinding so I go into it for the bloodpoints. I don't care what the definition of winning is in the Merriam-Webster dictionary. If I leave a match either killer or survivor with 20k bp or more, I call that a win.
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For me it is always BP
Survivor 2 or more stacks of were gonna live forever with a base score of 20k plus. I don't care if i lived or died, got moried, killer got the evil incarnate trophy etc..
Killer 4 stacks of BBQ and a base score of 24-32K. I don't care who teabagged, if 4 escaped, played clicky clicky with flashlights whatever.
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For myself i tend to side with what make it fun with the Score metric just being a modifyer at the end.
Though this discussion does really also remind me I wanted to ask a similar question but with addition of what they expect of the other and how they rate them. (I will explain below)
As Survivor
my goals(in order of priority): Have fun/ Safety pip / help someone else survive/ Surviving [Please note there are exceptions such as daily ritual, or testing a specific perk or skill improvement on certain technique like flash light save]
While as survivor my expectation of killer (an what rating i would give the killer): playing to get general good emblem /score system (im assuming 20k and above) | Not excessively being to eliminate or keep game hostage (see below) / and being scary (gets extra bonus points).
- Definition of excessive: Literally capture one person and waiting out in front of person (with no general apparent main reason - eg flashlight etc.) across several matches.
- Literally having everyone downed an waiting out everyone death... (again across several matches)
Note: I would ONLY rate a killer so called "super/God Tier" if they can effectively do all above with the scare part.
As Killer
My goals are: Have fun | Playing to get good emblem score with the ability to let some survivor live ( the decision on determining that I will admit varies based on mood eg. good Dodges or they escape, pity etc.) | playing their part
My expectation of survivors: Playing to get good emblem scores (assuming 20k up) | Not excessively being arrogant (eg some teabags, unhooking literally in front of me without a forced situation, etc), playing to person character or to the player role based on perks set.
Note: I would ONLY rate a Survivor so called "super/God Tier" if they can effectively do all above with the playing their part.
Hopefully I was clear in my definition on my win factors and my rating system of other players as well. (please feel free to ask me to clarify any points. Sometimes i do find it hard to express myself on the first go.)
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Also I would say if i a killer got a great scare on me I try to send a message of it cause they helped me immerse myself into the game (even if for a short while) Hence the reason even if they killed me or not.)
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For me it's about pipping, nothing to do with amount of kills or if I escaped. As a killer, getting 3 or 4 people usually gets me a smile, as a survivor, if I made the killer tunnel me or let me go cause he cant' stand the loops/dodges it's a W for me regardless of dying or surviving. I'm a team player, not a solo.
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Survivor win by escaping or jumping in the hatch, although hatch might feel cheap for skipping steps in reaching that goal, but escape is a win.
Swf have a vague win condition, afterall their goal isnt changed "you (singular) win by escaping" there are no mechanical factors forcing a certain perspective as what counts as the group's win, like penalties for killed survivors.
The killers goal is to kill all survivors. Theres not much to say here. Doing 50% cant be a win, and the game used to mock killers for less than 3 kills.
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A spicy chat after the game with salty killers/survivors is always a win in my books
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For survivor, one or more of the following:
- I pipped
- I survived
- I had fun
For killer, one or more of the following:
- I pipped
- I got 2+ kills
- I had fun
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When I get salt messages at the end
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All Survivors dead.
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I agree totally, bunches of blood points is a bonus too
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For me, it's about how many survivors escape through the exit gates. If 3 or 4 survivors escape through the gates, the survivors win (I usually consider it a win for everyone, also for the one person that might have died, provided that person didn't hide in a corner the entire game).
If 2 survivors escape through the gates, it's a draw.
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If you do so good that the "best" dbd players trash you with hate messages.
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Black pip or more=win
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Survivor: Making a good amount of progress, getting a lot of points.
Killer: Killing all 4 Survivors.
Escaping should be considered a "perfect", it should not be the standard for Survivors.
Escaping should be equivalent to the Killer killing all 4 Survivors without a single generator being completed in terms of difficulty.
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It honestly depends, for killer I wouldn't say it necessarily depends on the kills? But how I got the kills and how many hooks I got. 9 hooks but 1 kill is better than 3 kills and only like 3 or 4 hooks which is pretty big. I don't think most people actually get that. I also judge a win by how much pressure I'm applying to gens and survivors.
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2-3 kills usually
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It's extremely hard to get 20k base survivor score when the killer is using Ebony Mori, though. Even getting to 10k is a challenge.
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I will say that one of my most memorablen match was with a nurse that applied such area control and pressure that left me and the other 3 randos paranoid of each screecglh. Myself ( and judging by rest behavior) were scared to even come next to generator less we got the wrath.
[ We all died but I felt I died most heroically since I decided to finish one if last thing I do. { Admit I was near tears while doing gen}]
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for me a survivor game "win" is any game where people get to have fun.. the only "losing" games are the ones where you lay on the ground or hang on the hook and watch a bunch of dipshits squatting across the map in different areas practicing to be a pro.. a good indicator that a game is getting better is being able to get some co-op altruism (best stuff in the game).. it is usually followed up with co-op objective (2nd best thing), and a great time for everyone..
a killer game "win" is either a pip or making all of the survivors depip with me.. ez.
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There's the literal definition that some people are arguing about and then there's my personal definition, which I think is what this thread is about despite the people arguing that "fun isn't winning" (yall must be real fun at parties)
Like many people have said, I consider it a win if I have fun. As killer, I could hook everyone twice and then let them all escape and still count that as a win because of all the bloodpoints (especially if BBQ is equipped)
As a survivor, me and my entire team can die but if the killer didn't camp or tunnel anyone and gave everyone a chance to play the game, again I'd consider it a win.
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I win when noone gets out the exit gates. If the last survivor finds the hatch first, still a win because they got the pity escape. If it's a key escape, still a win regardless of how many escape, because it's a stupid broken cheat game mechanic.
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I go by two systems
Did i have fun? = win
Did i survive/kill two people/pip? = win
if i did either of those things i consider it a win.
though im competitive as ######### usually and only ever really want to ever double pip, or play for fun.
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DBD Players on Scrabble: "Yeah, I know you won, but in my eyes, I also won because I had more seven letter words than you."
DBD Players on Chess: "You may have checkmated me, but I had fun taking your Queen, so doesn't that really make me the winner?"
DBD Players on Catan: "I don't care that you got to 10 Victory Points before I did, I had fun getting my Longest Road, therefore, from my perspective, I also won."
DBD Players on Poker: "You may have taken all of my chips, but who is really the winner? I mean, I'm the only one who had a Four-of-a-Kind during the whole playing session."
DBD Players on Werewolf: "The Villager Team may have wiped us out, but we did take out your Fortune Teller on the first turn, soooo who's really the winner?"
DBD Players on Whitehall Mystery: "Sure, you may have caught me in the end, but I had fun looping you the whole time, so surely that also makes me the winner."
DBD Players on Street Fighter 2: "But, really, my personal goal was to get as many throws as possible, and given that I accomplished that goal, doesn't that mean I win, at least from how I see it?
DBD Players on Rock, Paper, and Scissors: "Ok, you may have beaten my Scissors with your Rock, but given how we both had fun, doesn't that make us both winners in the end?"
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Actually I've almost word for word said what you said in regards to Catan. Sometimes I know I have no chance of getting to 10 points so I celebrate getting the largest Army or longest road
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Hey, if people are so desperate for a win to the point where they have the need to conflate "personal achievements" with "winning" whatever game they are playing, then good on them. I'll support whatever keeps their emotional and mental well-being stable. I personally just find it sad that we come to live in a world where people have become so fragile that they have to convince themselves that they are "winners" to the point where they have to make up their own rules for a game.
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1 kill or 4 hooks as killer, and anyone on my team making it out.
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Honestly, I sometimes get the feeling that at the beginning the game was never meant to have any definition of winning or losing. There weren't supposed to be a winning and a losing team. Doesn't fit into the asymetric nature of the game.
I mean it doesn't really have one anyways, even now. People seem to have their own definition of winning.
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Lol what?! This is insane entitlement. An escape being comparable to a 4K with 5 gens left? You would have 5 hour killer queues, who the hell would play survivor? This would kill the game.
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I don't care what anyone thinks. For me, winning is having a good time. As killer, I've had good mind game wins, lots of hooks, and a few laughs. I'm good, since I play for fun.
As survivor, I've aided my team by doing some gens, or running the killer, making a risky save or performed well enough for the killer to comment on it afterwards. I'm not salty and could not care less about kills, pips, escapes, etc. Heck, I'll run back in and give the killer a kill if everyone is escaping and he is obviously new or was not horribly toxic.
Winning in a casual party game like DbD is very subjective.
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That's not what winning is.
Casual or not Dead by Daylight is a competitive game.
No that's not an oxymoron. The opposite of competitive is cooperative and not casual.
Mario Party is a competitive game for example. Do you win if you have fun in Mario party? NO! You win if and only if you have the most stars.
It's the same deal here, the only difference is that instead of getting stars your goal is to either escape or murder people depending on your role. Does that mean it isn't casual? No, does a game being casual fundamentally change how win conditions work? No. Can you ignore the wincondition and do something else anyways? Sure, but do declare that something else is winning is to say that you aren't playing the same game in the first place.
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Winning condition - having fun
As the killer - Having some good chases that challenge me, hooking a few people, and feeling like it was a close match. Maybe 2 survivors escape, but sometimes all get out and sometimes I get 3 or 4.
As a survivor - having some good chases, doing a few gens, rescuing some people from the hook, and healing some peeps. Getting out every few games is good because then it feels like an accomplishment...maybe escape every 3 or 4 games.
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Agreed. Escape would be comparable to a 4k in general and thus should have the same odds.
I'd estimate a 2.7k in most games (decimal number because it's an average) would be fair and have interesting results given equal 4k and escape odds.
That's because at that Kill rate you can have your odds of winning be equal for all surviving players no matter how many players that is. In otherwords even half way into the game when 2 players are alive your odds of escaping are STILL the same as the Killer getting the 4k, and thus surviving to be the final survivor will give you a 50/50 chance.
But in any case most games should have someone escape. 4K's should be only about 1/3ish games and thus someone should be escaping the remaining 2/3rds of the time.
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Maybe to you, but not to all. You don't get to define victory to others in a casual party game. The goal is fun. You only have the power to define your version of victory.
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Still not what a win is.
Personal Goal? Yes. But the distinction is important.
You know what DOES get to define victory to others? The game being played. And I have repeatedly shown that the game has an unambiguous win condition. At that point it isn't an opinion. It isn't "just to me", but it's an objective win condition and you must achieve before you can correctly say that you have won a round of dead by daylight.
But ok, lets humor you. You say the win condition is fun? How are the developers now supposed to balance with that in mind? How do they go about quantifying it in order to ensure that no character is overpowered or underpowered?
If winning is fun then how does a high level player go about optimizing a build with which to achieve this goal? In fact, how do you even determine a high level player at all? And how would you even begin to go about constructing a ranking system that puts the players who have the most fun at the highest rank and the players with the least fun at the lowest?
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its a casual game, not a competitive one.. you guys with your numbers, stats, complaints, & whatever else are the ones who think you quantify a "win" in a non-competitive game..
personally i'd rather get sacrificed immediately in 400 games back to back than play one game where i watch everyone die and pretend to be a rock. would you say it's my "personal goal" that i'm accomplishing, not fun?
by the way, you're welcome for all the times people like me have pulled your sorry sack off of a hook and you've watched us die for no reason other than to secure your "win" :)
who would you say is better at the game? the person who can break a facecamping leatherface and secure a safe hook rescue or a 13k bp average per game breathing boulder? who wins in that scenario for you?
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I just want BP tbh.
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Winning is a pip. Nothing else.
The fact you can die and still pip, the fact you can 4k and depip or 0k and pip, proves this to be the case. If your goal is to get a 4k or escape, that's fine but it's not a win as defined by the game.
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The one who escapes is the winner.
And a game being casual doesn't mean it isn't competitive.
Competitive just means you have at least 2 opposing player controlled sides. Which in DBD you do. And guess what! You need a win condition for that to work! Because otherwise you need to design around the possibility that players don't bother competing and thus end up with a game where the intended outcome isn't reached, at which point you don't have a competitive game but a COOPERATIVE game. This is why the ranking system needed to be changed from blood points, the Killer was working with the Survivors in order to maximize BP for everyone and it was defeating the point of the game due to people no longer playing to their win condition.
You can quantify a win in any game you where you can win. In games where you CAN'T win there simply is no state you can reach where you can correctly say you have won, which is just as important.
You can use that game as a basis for a DIFFERENT game which DOES have a win condition, but even if it uses the initial games code it still is a game in of itself that would need to be designed with separate considerations.
For example Minecraft is a game you can't win. But Survival Games is a game you can win. Survival Games is not Minecraft even though it's a game played within Minecraft.
And again, Mario Party's win condition is just as objective as league of legends is. Are you going to try and tell me that Mario Party isn't casual? Or are you saying that the victory screen in that game straight up lies to you sometimes?
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The game seems to disagree with you.
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I see every trial is like a horror movie, where 1 Survivor is a main character and able to live-escape any dangerous no matter what.
So for me as a Survivor, if I live, even other 3 are death, thats mean Im the main character for that trial, I win. (doesnt mean I selfish and not helping others though)
For Killer if one can get 3 kills, they win. Eventhough when I play Killer, I hook every Survivor twice but DONT KILL. I dont tunnel or camp, because I know how it feel for the Survivor players. Except there is a toxic Survivor, I will tunnel and face camp them to dead.
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Except the tutorial is not the game. It's outdated and been outdated for a long time.
Pipping is the only defined win condition. If you don't pip you didn't win sorry.
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Source?
Also the game guide has been updated very recently.
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Still a fail man. You can define what you want, but the question is what "I" define as a win. You can beat your chest and talk about competitive game all you want, but it does not change the fact that the game is balanced around the bulk of casual players. It is a casual party game and people play it for different reasons. Perhaps someone plays just to face camp a survivor each match and that is a win to them. Nothing you ever say will change that. Why? This is not a competitive game on esports level.
So, I play for fun, and my list of fun is my own, you don't have any say in it. Relax.
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