Nerf keys
Yes, another thread about the good ol' keys.
By now everyone is aware of it so i wont be too detailed, but keys are OP and HAVE TO be reworked; something like a 10s animation and only the key user able to escape.
Its not fair that 4 people can escape the match just because one of them brought a key. And i know killers have op things too but there are other threads to talk about them:)
Comments
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So what is the problem with 4 people escaping through the hatch?
For that to happen all 5 gens have to be completed. The game's pretty much over by then, so what's the problem? (And the killer screwed up for that matter)
Have you even tried getting that achievement? It is freaking hard to do.
Keys are fine. They are nowhere near as OP and unfair as, say, an Ebony Mori. Keys are fair, especially after the EGC change.
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You don't screw up by having 5 gens repaired.
I know it requires all gens to be repaired to have 4 mans escaping through the hatch, but what i think its not fair is that 3 people can escape before the last gen pops
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How are Ebony Mori's unfair? They require the killer to Hook someone (do their objective) and then use. The logic you use for Mori's being unfair, while you believe keys are fair (because you have to do your objective) lacks validity in this argument.
And in my opinion, I believe both could get changed to be more user friendly for both sides.
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Yup, 3 people escaping in that scenario is BS. Nothing like a hard fought match to spin in your favor because the gen placement is working out well. You're grinding out a comback and....end game screen. 3 out of 4 people magically escape because of a key.
Moris are discouraged in pretty much every way possible. Less points, less rank, shorter easier matches. Meanwhile there is zero negative to using keys and having 3 escape.
It also feels really stupid when you slam the hatch and someone escapes through it. At that point they might as well automatically win. Lets somehow patrol 2 exit gates and a hatch that can be opened in 1 second. There is nothing you can do about it.
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I don’t see a problem with keys atm.
Not when it has a condition attached to it and ebony mori still exists.
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Sooo Ya'll are bitching about people being able to leave..and you not getting the 4k?
Oh dear 3 people escaped through the hatch..Chances are they were probably gonna leave anyway..
The keys are fine..YOU as a KILLER arent DISCOURAGED to use moris but you can't just hook someone 1 time and still get a ######### ton of blood points.. You have to hook someone x amount of times then do the Mori to be able to get your blood points..but then again if you don't really care much about bloodpoints or pips but just tryin to end the game quick well there you go..With the new pipping system they did a bit a ago they made it so that the games had to last longer had to get so many hooks ect ect as killer..Not survivors fault that everyone bitched that the game was too easy to pip..
Secondly..LOL here we go with the KEYS ARE OP..well guess what sweetie..THERES A COUNTER TO ITEMS.. yeah I was mind blown as well..Its called Frankies Demise..Try it out sometime..When you M1 a survivor and they have an Item in their hand..it makes them drop it Gasps And I do it like this..Because of how killers have been in the passed about survivors saying anything..."Get Good" but I won't say that..Ill just actually tell you..theres a perk for it..THERE IS A COUNTER FOR EVERYTHING ...and if not everything then ALMOST everything..
They aren't gonna use Keys..They just "nerfed" insta heals..gotta give them some time there speed racer..LMFAO
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There is no "user friendly" for a Mori..Do people want to be Mori'd um probably not..But guess what its in the game and its probably gonna stay..Just like the keys..I dont understand why everyone is jumping on the "Nerf the Key band wagon" when its just a goddamn key lmfao..chances are someone found it out of a chest or are actually trying to get the "Where did they go" for the game..And yes the Moris and the Keys are BOTH fair..but you're BOTH just doing what you're supposed to be doing..it doesn't matter if you hook everyone x2 then mori them all..still counts as a 4k still get as many points as you would if they died on hook..and the survivors..who the hell cares if its through the gate or through the hatch..if all 4 survivors were alive at the end of the game ANYWAYS chances are ...they are all getting out.. I just don't get why people are crying about ######### that is ALREADY BALANCED!
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I really don't see why a key is an issue. Sure, all 4 can escape at once, and it's a huge soul crusher to see it happen, but at the same time, how do you think the survivors feel when we lunge out a ebony and just insta kill them? Same feeling to them, trying hard to stay alive without dying like that. So really, if you nerf keys, nerf the mori's too. We all know neither will happen since it's all in fair game.
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This post really hurt you huh? Im sorry, but 3 people escaping at once with 2 gens left isn't fair.
And keys can't always be countered by Franklin's, because they spawn on chests.
And for mori's the killer has to hook people first, with the key you dont even need to do anything
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When they nerf Spirit they will also nerf keys to appease the masses.
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Its not hard to keep hitting it out of their hand...And with Frankies then everytime you hit them with it it loses charges lmfao..Thats where my god is :D
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Its fair though. Because if you have all 4 survivors hooked and you have an Ebony, Then that means if you down them then you can insta kill them. I don't see where the problem is. They did enough gens to escape through hatch via key. Which means you didn't do a good enough job patrolling the gens to make sure that they couldn't leave. And yes the keys do spawn in the chests but its actually very rare for that to happen even with Plunders.
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its what they did with the insta heals when they "nerfed" the nurse. LMFAO
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Sure, let's talk fairness, because you seem to be arguing that Ebony Mori is a lot fairer than a key.
Let's look at how much work is cut out with an Ebony Mori.
In a normal game, you need to hook each survivor 3 times. That's a total of 12 hooks. With an Ebony Mori, you only need to hook them once each. 4 hooks. You just cut the work you needed to do by 66%.
Fine, let's count downs instead of hooks. By downs you are reducing the work needed by 33%. And reducing a lot of the back and forth walking to the hooks. Further, you can eliminate the first survivor very quickly just by tunneling him off hook. Reducing survivor count to 3 makes the game vastly easier for you. So it's 33% and then some.
Now how about keys?
A normal game requires 5 gens to be done.
For 4 people to escape, you need 5 gens done. No work was saved. Might as well just escape through the doors, frankly. Its easier. Looking for the hatch when the exit gates are powered is actually harder than just opening the gates and walking out.
For 3 people to escape, you need 4 gens. That's only a 20% reduction at worst. There is also no shortcut for the survivors. No walking time is cut down. IN fact, they need to walk a lot more to find the gen. And the logistics needed to get everyone there at the same time to jump into the hatch at the same time.
So for you to "lose" (3 or more survivors escape) the best case scenario is 20% reduction int he requirements. That's not even up to the 33% reduction for downs required by the killer on a Mori..
Now to "tie" with 2 escapes you need 3 gens done. That's a 40% reduction in work for the survivors. But all it ends up in is a measly tie. You still will likely kill two of them.
But you know what? Realistically speaking most of the time only one survivor will even get to the hatch. And in fact, many times the key is just wasted and none of them get to the hatch and you kill all of them! Its not even a guarantee.
Because using keys is not easy.
And yes, it's possible no gens are done and the last survivor still escapes. So what! The killer won. The killer killed 3 survivors. So one escaped. Big deal. Usually the killer will catch the guy with the key anyway. The counterplay to a survivor with a key is present.
There is no way to counter a mori. Other than to play an almost perfect game and nobody is ever hooked and downed more than once.
So yes, let's talk about "Fairness."
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wish there was a LOVE button!!
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It seems you don't know enough about the game to discuss this particular point.
You can't escape with 3 people when only 3 gens have been done. 4 Gens minimum are required for 3 people to escape.
You had plenty of chances to kill the keybearer. The devs even gave you a peak at the lobby so you could see the survivor equipping their key! I mean isn't there something called FRANKLIN'S DEMINSE that is specifically made for this purpose?
If you failed to do that it's your fault. You had all the chances.
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No. key is fine.
Killers can close the hatch now.
Run franklin demise and git gud.
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This is why i never comment in a Key or Mori Thread. This is where it goes every time. "Killer Vs. Survivor." With no one wanting to be level headed on either side. Yall have fun with this topic, i'mma stay all of the out of this.
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Oh hell no, there are nothing wrong with keys right now. This game runs on the hope of the survivors escaping(or not). Why would you want to take away the other means of escaping from the survivor away, or to add several seconds for the survivor to open the hatch?
After the 3rd survivor is dead, it's a race for the hatch. If the killer gets there first, they close it and the EGC starts. At that point, they either have to try to get an exit gate open or die trying, which often the latter occurs most. So, you're basically saying that if the killer closes hatch, the survivor can't even re-open the hatch if they had a key? That's utter BS and I don't agree with it.
Don't want a survivor to use a key? Bring Franklin's Demise.
The devs will have to be crazy to do something extreme to keys in the future.
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If the killer failed and all gens were done and all survivors alive the killer had an epic fail. How about you get good and stop being so entitled?
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Imagine thinking Franklins Demise is a counter to items...unironically. It’s a time waster at best.
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I've seen survivors kill themselves trying to get an item back. Its like it was their grandfather's watch or something.
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"Fairness" is a biased point I simply stated that both require an objective to be completed. Whether or not you believe an objective should or shouldn't be made more difficult is your opinion. However, to get use out of either item (key/mori) and objective must be completed anything beyond that I don't care for.
Also like my first post said, I couldn't care less if they remove Mori's or keys, I'm just trying to speak objectively on this issue.
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How do I upvote twice?
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Franklins demise doesn't counter keys. ESPECIALLY against a 3 survivor escape situation.
Oh he hit me and I dropped the key.
Hey guys im putting the key in this easy to find spot.
Hey I found the hatch! Come over here!
Yeah..
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It doesn't even counter ANYTHING if the survivors are coordinated. They just drop the toolbox by the gens. Something similar with medkits that you don't even need in SWF. Franklins becomes a minor inconvenience against SWF who know what they're doing.
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Just like Nurse, keys are overpowered compared to when they were introduced and today's version of the game with the skill level of the players who use them.
They abruptly end and ruin the game for one side, or both depending on when the key is used. While both have prerequisites to be used, the key will allow all survivors to escape within seconds of the key being used while a mori requires the mori victim to be hooked once. Depending on the skill of all survivors and the killer, it's possible for 0 people to be moried even if all are hooked.
There is one perk that can stop a survivor from using a key. Franklin's Demise.
How many perks and tools do survivors have to avoid getting moried by a killer? Perks to avoid being found by a killer, or getting downed by a killer? How many environmental tools do survivors have to avoid being found or downed by a killer? How many survivors can a killer mori within 10 seconds?
How many survivors can escape through a key opened hatch within 10 seconds?
The two are similar, but the key is more powerful.
In today's gamestate, it's as broken as the Nurse was and should be adjusted accordingly.
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Random thought.
What if the killer could see the aura of the hatch if a survivor had a key?
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Keys and mories are both broken game mechanics. I don’t see why people would defend either as they’re the equivalent of each other on each side.
Mory removes a player earlier from the game and requires 0 skill to use. It robs players from an enjoyable game.
Keys allow multiple players to leave the game earlier and also doesn’t require any form of skill. It robs a killer from their enjoyable match.
Both are also stupidly easy to find in bloodwebs or chests. Both lead to toxic gameplay because a win is practically garanteed.
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So basically..The hitboxes that the killers have doesn't give them a hand up? When almost more than half people play solo Q yeah that makes perfect sense.
KILLERS PLEASE LISTEN:
You do not need to have a 4k every single game! IF survivors can't escape or want to think that they can escape EVERY GAME then the killer has no reason to believe that they should.
Its a 4v1..As someone stated the killer can tunnel the first one to death, Can't stop that BT? That's not even helpful anymore killers will still cont. to chase that one person..Oh DS..here lemme slug em chase someone for about 60 seconds and come back..All these things that you have stated is not a "Counter" to being mori'd or to even a "counter" to being killed..yeah I get it, get good and never get caught..well lemme jus sayin no one can say that they are NEVER caught.
As someone who plays solo Q's 95% percent of my games, I'll tell you right now that I don't care if me and 3 other people leaving VIA hatch is "unfun" for them. Because in my 2 1/2 years of playing killers never felt bad about my "unfun" matches where they tunnel me to death and camp my hooks, and allow and yes ALLOW my teammates to farm me off the hook. So no
Keys and Mori's are on a balanced level. I don't care how you look at it, remember THE KILLER HAS THE GAME IN THEIR HANDS..NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
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The fact that you think the killer has the game in their hands shows willfully blind ignorance to the current state of the game and makes it very obvious that a discussion with you will go nowhere.
byee~
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How doesn't it? The killer has the choice to camp hooks..the killer has the choice to tunnel everyone off the hook..which A LOT of killers do this..Because that's all they know how to do. Its not blind ignorance of the current state its the facts of the game.
Do you know how many times I was FEET away from windows and killers still down me because of the stupid hit boxes..LOL killers have so much on their side but yet they would rather ######### about the items and perks that the survivors have.
Byeeeee~~~~~~
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If you’re actually that far from windows and still getting hit that’s just good ol’ latency.
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funny thing, The ping is very low. Always green and Im still getting hit like that. It used to be just with Freddy. Well because his lunge is HUGE. But lately its been happening with ALL killers. Clearly you shouldn't have gotten the hit but it still gave it to you. Ive had it happen more lately than it ever has. I get that there is always a little bit of lag, but it shouldnt be that much if my ping is always low green.
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All the killers have the Trapper’s lunge and hitbox (IDK why but they do).
That’s why Freddy, Ghostface, and other killers with short weapons get hits that look..suspect.
I know what you’re talking about with windows though, sometimes I completely clear a vault and don’t get smacked other times I do, only good explanation I’ve come up with is lag.
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yeah but i thought with the servers up then it wouldn't be this bad. and I dont run wifi, I can't on my PC i don't have wifi built in. Im hardwired so its like uh #########! lmfao
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But it's fair that a killer can hook you once, tunnle you and kill you with a mori if they brought an offering lol survivors have perks to counter some killer ability and killers have perks to counter survivor abilitys, Franklin's for key for example. If you dont want to use it then that's the killers issue not that the keys op. Each side has to make sacrifices sometimes of certain perks, at least killers get to decide what's the best thing to bring when going against survivor items, because you see them in the lobby, that's when you say to yourself, FRANKLINS! Or mori or both Lol survivors just got insta heals nerfed, they pretty much have nothing great on items anymore, key is the last thing that's going to be of any help. Killers have their amazing amount of insta perks and items, dont be so greedy xD leave them with last thing decent thing to escape, because you know they coming after your insta stuff if they are left with nothing looooool and it will happen because dev listen to cry babies.
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The difference is that the Mori takes away 2/3 of of the killers objective and ends a survivors game prematurely within the first 2 mins of a game you can Mori a survivor then that person has to go wait again where as the key removes at best 1/5 of the objective if that.
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You have to do gens
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Ah I heard the new dedicated servers were pretty bad. I’m on PS4, I’ve got wired internet as well.
Still P2P so occasionally I get a killer from Mars and everyone’s rubberbanding hardcore.
What really needs fixed is this getting hit through pallets lately..really starting to grind my gears
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this is with the servers ON.
I load into "lobbies" with no killer so i know that the servers are up.
BUT if they are on then the lag shouldn't be that bad ya know?
That's why I say hitbox because servers were supposed to fix that crap lol.
PS4 I play for it..But idk seems more tunnely campy on there than on PC lol
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Ebony Mori needs to go. Ivory one’s not too bad.
Keys are fine and healthy for the game, it’s good to have alternative ways to escape instead of just fix all five gens, run out the exit every trial.
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If 4 people escape with a Key, then all the generators were finished.
I don’t see the issue. It is an item that can potentially let you escape after Killer closes the hatch. They’re fine.
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I see you don't know who Space coconuts is.
Also, let me explain Hitboxes.
To take post from someone else:
"every killers M1 attack has the exact same range.
this also does not work with hitboxes, at least not from the killers side.
instead of the weapon having an hitbox, the game will mark a certain area in front of the killer. if a survivor's hitbox happens to be in said area, the game will automatically move the killer and his weapon into a position that will look like a solid and fair hit, and the survivor gets hit.
however, this only works on killers with a long weapon, like the original 3. if a killer happens to have a shorter weapon, like Nurse or Freddy, the weapon itself will not hit the survivor, though the survivor is in the marked area and still gets hit. now add bad latency to that mix and some hits look very ridiculous - for the survivor.
this is why it looks odd on certain killers, even though they have the exact same range as any other killer aswell. it just doesnt look like they do.
however, some killers actually do have a hitbox. those would be killers with a ranged attack like Huntress, Clown or Plague. their M1 works just as any other killers M1 attack aswell, but their projectiles have a hitbox that determinds weather you hit the survivor or not. however, since Clown and Plague arent really precise with their ranged attacks, you wont see any real problems with those.
Huntress on the other hand requires accuracy, and therefore her hitbox hits can sometimes look weird.
important to note here is, that the hatchet hitbox has the shape of a ball which, if it hits a survivors hitbox, will make the projectile hit. thanks to that hitbox, it sometimes looks like you clearly missed, though the hitboxes still collided.
however, this can not be changed that easily, due to the survivors hitbox being like a pill in their middle. this hitbox never changes, though the animations for the survivor do. as an example, if the survivor is running while injured, they bend forward quite a bit. having the ball hitbox of the hatchets allows you to still hit their hitbox, which remains unchanged in their middle going straight upwards (so its not matching the model) when you hit their body.
the devs once "fixed" the huntress hatchet hitbox, which made it exactly the size of the hatchet, which didnt allow for hits that clearly hit the survivor. you would just throw through a running survivors head without downing them constantly, which is why they immediately reverted that change.
if you want the Huntress hatchet hitboxes to be "fixed" so they are exactly the size of the hatchet, you will also have to adjust survivor hitboxes from their current pill form to a form that 1:1 equals the survivor's body. this however would greatly reduce the survivors ability to loop around objects, as they would have to run larger circles (due to their new arm hitbox) and would also tend to get stuck a lot more often.
you see, hitboxes are a difficult thing." from @Mister_xD
Also.
And
Now than I got that out of the way.
I don't want a 4k game every time. It's silly of you to lump all Killers into that pot, like it is Killers to lump all survivors together. I want a good back and forth match, and with the balance the way it is that is near impossible. (or feels that way)
I am sorry that you have had so many games like that, but if the Killer camps, the others should do gens. Punish them for it. If they tunnel, then the ones not being chased should do gens as they don't have pressure on them
Your PING is why you are being hit over things, even with the servers. Please please look at the video and the explanation about hit boxes.
Ping can effect you, even on Ethernet. I took networking classes, and ping is just a fact of being on the internet. Perhaps you should contact your ISP.
Over all, I hope the games get better for you in the end. Have fun in the Fog.
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I had a game as spirit where one died and the other 3 were death on hook, and every chase I started was a down in less than 15s.
1 gen left on the mother dwelling's map, one on the main building, another nearby and the other on a corner. I knew I had won because they were all dead on hook.
So, one gen left, someone hooked in the basement from the main building; an ace came to the rescue and when I saw both of them coming from the stairs I went from the rescuer, hit him; and both ran to the hatch where the third person was waiting with a key. They made sure to tbag as a goodbye on their way out. Needless to say, the post game chat was as salty as the sea from their end.
For me, that game was won; I know that if it wasn't for just one item I would've got the 3 kills I deserved.
Still, that match enlightened me on how broken keys really are. And as I said on a previous comment, I know killers have OP stuff too (for me is just insta hatchets).
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Sounds good, lets add a brown mori and make them all able to kill survivors after one hook then
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Dude i hate games like that. It hurts in your soul after a while.
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Imagine a key that let everyone escape when the first gen pops, yeah thats as unfair as ebon mori
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eh i wouldn't go that far is just like being tunneled to death and that happens A LOT
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So my question to you is..If I do a speed test of my internet and it tells me that:
Latency: 35 ms
Would that still be my internet tho. I mean I guess we don't have THE BEST internet but I haven't had a problem on ANY other game at all. I mean I figured if it was our net then id have issues on BO4 as well.
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