Should BBQ & Chili limit aura reading?
BBQ Chili is an amazing perk that I run for the BP stack (100% bonus - heck yeah!). But the UNLIMITED aura reading sequence makes it complete OP.
I think once the max token/stack has been reached, the devs should remove the aura reading ability.
This would really help balance the fast killers who have great map pressure.
The limitation wouldn't impact BBQC for its meta-ness... but it's a start. :)
With this change a passive buff would happen for Jeff's Distortion perk.
Comments
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i disagree as it would punish the people who only use it for the aura reading.
each survivor has to be hooked 3 times to kill everyone. Thats 12 hooks. You want the limit of a perk to only work 4 out of twelve times? Really doesnt seem like a good idea. If we are gonna go there, lets limit the amout of times a survivor can heal themselves with self care lol
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If you want a buff to Distortion, just ask for that.
Post edited by Xboned on8 -
Sorry but no. The perk is great how it is now it gives new players a sense of direction where to go after hooking someone and not just standing nearby the hook.
As an experienced player you know how to counter being seen by bbq you just have to sacrifice the time of finding a locker,getting near the killer or running distortion.
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I dont think BBQ should be touched. Perfect perk as it is.
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How the aura reading from BBQ is OP when good survivors run Object of Obsession, because they don't care if they are seen by the killer.
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There's a lot of yelling at me with a bunch of contradicting stuff.
You say it's not OP cuz it only last 4 seconds, then you say there are so many counters.
If there are so many counters, why would limiting it to 4 be a problem?
Y I K E S.
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I am the biggest BBQ hater on this site.
BBQ's aura reading should be nerfed into the ground.
It is a loaded perk that does too many things for the killer. I cannot count the number of times I have died due to BBQ -- I make the effort to counter it but sometimes you're not in a position to or must do something else. For instance if you are slugged you cannot counter it, or maybe you were opening the exit gate but your last teammate goes down and there's no locker in sight. Countering it takes precious time as well when sometimes you just need to do something else or you will die.
It just does too much. It needs a nerf.
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No no no. There are too many counters for this particular perk. And did you even think the consequences of nerfing it? The killers will camp more often and will make your survivor life a nightmare.
In conclusion, learn and use its counters and most importantly git gud xD
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Not to mention is has counterplay
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I could only see it being necessary if it didn't already have counterplay available. However, you can easily counter it just by hopping in a locker when the killer goes to hook someone. Alternatively, you can run one direction for four seconds, then turn around and sneak back the other way. Limiting the amount of times it can activate on top of that would be a little overkill.
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sure.
if you wanna encourage players to camp that is.
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I actually am mostly fine with the perk currently since the locker buff for Survivors gave it more counter play. Only issue with it is how much it hurts the Survivors against highly mobile killers like Billy, Nurse, Freddy, and Spirit. It snowballs really easy on them.
For now though, I don't see much reason to nerf it. I still think making the aura read end with activating your ability could help with the mobility killer issue. But not sure it's really needed at the time being.
I also never really liked how BBQ has benefits while WGLF doesn't. Seems like WGLF could of got the Baby Sitter perk added to it.
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This perk has viable counterplay in that you only need to be within a certain radius to not show up at all or just hide in a locker. That's literally all you need to do.
And that is BEFORE you get Jeff's perk, Distortion, involved which counters not just BBQ, but every other aura-reading perk the killer has.
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...Are you trying to claim BBQ is OP because it has so many counters? Like, the more counters = OP perk?
That makes 0 sense.
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BBQ isn't UNLIMITED. It's limited by the 40m range, Lockers, Distortion, and incomplete generators.
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I'm a lot happier facing those perks than BBQ, to be honest.
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Distortion is a trash tier perk. Don't even try to pretend it's a counter as you literally state why it's awful in the same place you're trying to pretend it's good. It has 3 whole charges... and any aura read removes a charge. It's a horrible perk.
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Distortion is a trash perk, though. Let's not pretend that it's a viable counter to any aura-reading perk.
It's actual use is to figure out the killer's loadout, not to counter aura reading.
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Where did I say Distortion was good?
Re-read my statement, tell me where I said it was good? Show me your work.
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BBQ literally doesn't need any perks to be countered, yet some bad survivors still cry about it. WoW
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Maybe you shouldn't of even brought up Distortion then? Saying Distortion counters all aura reading perks is simply silly. It's like saying No Mither is a good perk. It's just false. Even Deja Vu might be stronger than Distortion cause it has a small use.
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BBQ is fine where it is. If you're getting killed by it, it's honestly on you when there's so many ways to counter it. And if you're not doing that, you're just not doing your job as a survivor.
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But it explicitly does.
Distortion is way better than useless perks like Deja Vu or No Mither.
It's not meta or anything nor is it even close to being a contender.
It's just one of those mediocre perks with a decent effect that is far too situational to really take full advantage of.
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Yeah, I have to disagree. Bbq has counters. Hiding in a locker, hiding behind a gen, and being with 40 meters. As easy as it is to counter I think it's fine. I'd be behind a buff for distortion though.
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Only 3 charges kills it though. It's rather limited for a perk, meanwhile BBQ can reach a solid 11 uses in a match. BBQ is pretty much a Killer meta perk and has been since it came out. Distortion is in the trash can with most Survivor perks.
I'm mostly arguing with the idea people are trying to say a very limited perk that can be used up quickly in a match is on the level of a match long perk that comes with BP benefits.
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Good or bad, it still counters the aura reading. And as Sairek pointed out, it's also information as to what the killer is running so you can react accordingly when the tokens are used up.
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I mean yeah it's not a great perk, but if you are comparing it to Deja Vu and No Mither than it's definitely better than those
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Sorry most of those are painfully obvious. Nurse's Calling is easily noticed when the Killer bee lines to you suddenly. Pig always knows when and where your removing a trap? Kind of obvious. You're using on of your perk spots for "potential" and limited knowledge/use.
How many people in this thread actively run Distortion? How many run BBQ? I wonder which would win a popularity poll?!?!
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If you don't think it's a valid way to counter BBQ, don't bring it up.
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And that's on top of the ton of Blood Points it gives.
It is a loaded perk. It needs a nerf.
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BP is null for balance
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Popularity != OP status
For non-programmers, that means 'popularity is NOT EQUAL TOO OP status.
OP perks are usually popular, but popular perks are not always OP.
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Bbq is fine as is. I'd argue for a distortion buff. At least a buff to the number of tokens. Hell I'd be fine with there being no tokens and it lasting the entire match.
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Decisive strike which has only one counter (slugging) deserves a heavy nerf, not BBQ
The 60 immunity needs to be reduced
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Let's go there :p I had a thread not to long ago essentially about that being a limit to how many times a survivor could be healed to full health.
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Um... who cares who runs and it and who doesn't? Popularity doesn't mean something is OP. My point is that it's counterable, before you even consider perks. Your the one choosing to die on this hill as to wither or not Distortion is good or not.
But popular <> OP. By that logic, we should also be nerfing Dead Hard, Ruin, ect.
I've wondered why they went with tokens instead of a long cooldown on the perk.
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I don't know how hard it would be to implement, but here's a Distortion idea:
It can have, at max, 3 Tokens.
Tokens are spent to avoid aura reading, like normal.
If you avoid aura reading in any other way (hiding in a locker before your aura is revealed, being within BBQ's no-read range, hiding behind a Genny aura when BBQ procs, stopping healing 1 or 1.5 seconds before hearing the TR (while the Killer has Nurses Calling), etc: Gain a token back!
Basically; gain a token if you prevent an aura read based on the perk giving said aura read.
You cannot gain a token for doing the same thing twice in a row! IE: For BBQ; You can hide in a locker, then hide close to the Killer, THEN hide in a locker again, and gain 3 tokens. But you can't hide in a locker, hide in a locker, then hide close to the Killer.
It may be a bit too complicated, though..
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lol that just opens up a rabbit hole of doom for everyone and makes perks a lot less viable and the grind/reward for playing goes down. One of the top counters to bbq is just hiding in a locker for 5 secs before a person gets hooked. If no locker is around, next best thing is try hiding behind a gen
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I can only guess they thought it would too OP. A cool down with each rank effecting the length of the cool down I think would have been ideal.
A system allowing you to gain tokens or a it having no tokens but a cooldown period would make it a far better perk.
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It wasn't well received to say the least, eventually came up with a pretty fair and cool hex perk version. It's over in feed back called "survivours ability to take a multitude of hits"
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"If you're getting killed by it, it's honestly on you when there's so many ways to counter it. And if you're not doing that, you're just not doing your job as a survivor."
I actually think this makes a really good point. Playing survivor is more than just doing gens; this isn't a gen-repair sim. If you know certain perks are popular on killers, then playing around them is part of playing survivor.
Killers have to play around survivor perks. Expecting to encounter popular survivor perks and trying to counter them is part of playing killer. Dead Hard? You lose a few seconds baiting that out during a chase. And, if you don't bait it out, you lose even more than a few seconds. Trying to make sure to hit the unhooker instead of the unhooked in case of Borrowed Time, or waiting out the 15 seconds. Adrenaline doesn't even have a counter other than not letting gens get finished, which is obviously easier said than done.
BBQ has a whole bunch of counters that don't even take up a perk slot. It's not OP.
Post edited by TragicSolitude on4 -
BBQ is fine. IMO they should just get rid of the bonus BP and make that STANDARD. Then its just a perk killers can chose to use or not. The BP is there to ENCOURAGE killers to use it, since it gets them away from the hook.
Its unfortunate that most of the counter-plays will NOT make BBQ effective at reducing camping. If you hop in a locker, I can either A) Have no idea where to go so will likely stay near by, or B) think you're within the meters and likely hang out longer. If you are across the map DO NOT HOP IN LOCKERS. Give the killer a reason to go WAY WAY far away from the hook.
Your BEST counterplay to BBQ is run one direction for a few seconds, then turn a different one. Especially if you aren't anywhere near the killer.
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Nah, I was just calling out how awful Distortion is to even try to use it as a counter to saying BBQ is fine as it is. I am mostly fine with BBQ myself, but I sure as heck can't stand someone bringing up some situational F tier perk as some holy grail to counter it.
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Distortion isn't a good way to counter aura reading: it's a good way to know if you need to counter aura reading. A survivor gets hooked far away and Distortion doesn't go off? No need to waste time hiding in a locker. You hear the killer's TR while you're healing and Distortion doesn't go off? No need to stop healing. It'a an anti-time-waster perk.
It can also help you strategize if you find out the killer's running Bitter Murmur: save the final token for when the last gen pops, or make sure you're in a locker when the last gen pops.
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I can see your point. I still think it's F tier and the highly situational aspects of the perk make it needless to bring up in terms of countering BBQ. But I'll respect it has "some" uses a bit more. it's like Calm Spirit... might come in handy once in a blue moon but is overall a waste of a slot.
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I used Distortion on Jeff mostly because I didn't have better. I think it had potential, but it's limitations really holds it down.
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Yeah, I definitely wouldn't say it's a great perk, but it's not totally useless. It can also help completely new players who don't have all the perks and their counters memorized, yet; it won't protect them forever, but it may help them stay in the game a little longer.
I think it's probably really difficult for the devs to balance perks in an asymmetrical game. Too weak and no one uses it, but too strong and it quickly becomes OP if multiple survivors bring it. You don't want a perk that'll make the killer say "screw it" and quit playing if all four survivors come equipped with it. In that case, it's better to err on the side of the perk being weaker. Plus, the devs want the killer to find survivors. The survivors are supposed to be found.
The devs probably took a look at the average number of times a survivor's aura is revealed to the killer (barring killer add-ons) in a match and went from there, making sure the number of tokens was below the average without being completely useless.
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I think BBQ is perfectly fine. As a survivor I get found by BBQ only when I want to, there are so many counters to that perk alone it's almost insane. The last addition of making the survivor's health bar flashy when he gets picked up helped a lot (on the other hand, it made the combo BBQ+Make Your Choice+Knock Out way less effective, so I'm a bit sad about that)
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It really bugs me that things that have a viable counter get complained about.
Don't want to risk a DS? Slug the person and leave them on the ground
Don't want to show up on BBQ? Either sit in the aura, mislead where you are going, sit in a locker, or get behind an unfinished gen.
People's refusal to perform easy viable counters really baffles me.
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Seriously, more BBQ complaints? Dear lord it’s got at least three counters that do not require a perk or force you to play bad!
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