Why LGBT is so important?
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If they can tell the story of the person falling into the category of LGTBQ in such a way that's decent and not "Oh bt-dubs, this character is gay." Have it be more subtle tones then that and I feel like it's fine.
The problem is I've never seen the point of it. What benefit does it truly include? It's the same as all those posts we've had here of, "Hey make Nea a lesbian so my fanfic is real" or "make David gay so it really feels like I AM him." Might just be me but why does it matter?
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We have only like 4 relationships of the chars mentioned as of now (not counting backstory chars like claudettes parents)
of course it doesn’t feel unnatural now that only heterosexual relations are mentions. But going down this road, it would get unnatural if every single char of the 40+ roster only ever has hetero relationships.
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Thats what I keep saying. It was blown out of proportion as soon as people started to bring up their own agendas that steered the conversation into something else.
I must have been so naive and they must have had me Hooked from the start cuz I am a sucker for cosmetics and I keep buying everything they throw at me. 😱
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Oh yea. I missed that lol.
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Wait wait wait...... This is basically an admittance that Nea is straight (C'mon BHVR, you literally had the "subtle" lesbian character there, and all you had to do was not make a point a virtue signaling and we all would have believed/assumed that)
Here's my thing about it... If BHVR won't compromise the statement they make by shedding this narrative in certain markets (although I'm not sure how popular this game is in places where that message is taboo) for the money, then I see absolutely no reason for it to be a problem.a
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Although they have been conspicuously silent around the specific events of George Flynn, the current BLM situation, the protests and riots... Just saying, are we only paying attention to pride month in the interest of time? Why make such a strong statement about LGBTQ but completely ignore the riots and social unrest due to a significant cultural breakpoint that will forever change the structure of the police force, based on a history of injustice and abuse of African Americans ......
Just saying, it feels like maybe some time would have been allotted to addressing that in some way. To take the time to address one thing without the other? Like I said, I have no problem with the LGBT announcement if it's more than virtue signaling and comes from a genuine place of support (which I suspect it does) but why not extend that support to folks that may not have a heavy representation in your team, or even your audience, but would appreciate knowing said support exists to the same degree for them.
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They actually did show support for BLM.
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Them stating that the characters are w/e and they aren't going to define them was fine, but when their own stories define certain characters as straight then some people would like a bit more spice. They would like to know if characters who are undefined, are in fact actually defined by the developers. They said they weren't, and that we can choose to believe what they want, while the whole time they all were defined as straight/cis. Players just want more from their characters, and asking for different characters to be different shouldn't be seen as asking for much of anything.
But I agree. It would be nice if the stories don't revolve around and have a heavy focus on their sexuality. Because, if we've learned anything about Jane's story, they don't know how to write stories with a focus on one's minority status.
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Oh, was that included in the speech they made? In what way? Are we going to receive a cosmetic, have a original black character from the USA? Anything like promising to create a character? Maybe I missed it in the written speech as well, but I digress, it warrants equal measure treatment in my mind, does it not?
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- It wasn't a speech, it was an image of written text (not even actual text, but an image of it).
- No, it was a different statement that I can't recall at the moment. They also didn't bring up the rainforest or global warming because the statement was about one thing and one thing only. It's OK to make separate statements on separate subjects.
- "Equal treatment" would be some characters who hadn't had their color revealed yet being revealed as black. Since that's literally impossible, no, you won't get equal treatment. You already got the better deal since the day the game was launched.
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If you consider priority as a standard here, i would say 100% profit. Support comes after.
Now think, what impact would it cause to the game bringing out the sexuality for the characters? Like: David King is Homosexual, Nea Karlson bisexual, Karina kassir is transexual (all this data on their background story).
None, why they need this to be implemented? to feel included? the game is not restricted, they can buy it and play as well.
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Oh so we're pulling the "My struggle is more important than yours " card? Is that what you actually meant to illustrate with your words, or should I give you a second chance?
It's funny how LGBT always want to have that level of inclusion in discussing inequality, but want everything to take a backseat to their struggles and comment on their oppression as if it exists to any significant degree in most civilized countries.
But since YOU want to go there, you're ######### right I can't hide who I am or how I look, and because of that, I've been subject to the type of injustice that steps right to your front door, as well as the kind that seeps in the background, because I never had the benefit of being able to cloak myself.
Not saying that's right or a fair way to live, but if your going to sit here and make a mockery of the struggle of black folks by comparing the issue to ######### like the rainforest and intangible political issues like that, like really? Do you care that little about black folks you're going to allow your narrative to be "oh, put those blacks on the back burner, we don't have to address them right now, not even when there is a major race event affecting the Americas right now, let's ignore that, give cursory support to BLM or something"
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And just so it's clear, because I'm aware I didn't do that and don't want to be misunderstood- I do not support the institution of BLM itself... I support the message, meaning the thing that most people see themselves as representing when they shout BLM rather than the backing interests of BLM.. So there's my stance.
And yes Mr. deepwpund, I'm very aware of that fact. Also aware of the fact George Flynn wasn't a clean character... Hell, before folks started bringing up his past, I literally saw guy I'm a porno and knew "he's not a sweetheart"
But do you look at only one symptom when trying to diagnose a disease?
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I literally said none of that, but whatever floats your boat. Also, just for the record, my mother is from Africa (I won't specify the country because then people could discern which country I'm in), and despite me having light skin, people notice my African heritage.
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It's not always what's said, but what's inferred, and if you're don't like your words getting away from you, you should pick better words and make more well reasoned arguments. My whole point was why do we only need to focus on LGBT exclusively when before this month even started, we've been watching the world slowly unfurl from it's tightly maticulated matrix of servile obedience married with civil injustice into an open call for the restructure of some of our most nefarious, insidious institutions that have been allowed to exist for centuries.
How is vocalizing support for or even acknowledging a very current, very real event in human society unfolding infront of us, in anyway the same as having a discussion about global warming? And even if that were the case, didn't that Van Gretta girl get a time and platform for her points?
I get it dude, you don't want to be caught up in the hype and hysteria. I wasn't out there loving everything being done in the name of trying to make a change, and at first I was just like "this is all bullshit anyway, virtue signaling from celebs and a few folks acting crazy cuz they're couped up from Corona, this shits been happening and all of a sudden the US wants to rise and address it when it's convenient for them?"
But I had to step away from that mindset... Because at the end of the day, it's not anymore helpful or appreciative of what potential benefits we all may see as a people if these conversations are taken seriously. Sometimes you don't get to choose your heroes, and that's ok. The ends to the means are often more important than the means, hard fact of life.
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You really don't get it, no. I support the BLM movement, but that's not the topic of the conversation. The topic is LGBT characters having their orientations confirmed, period. I also pointed out that support for BLM and support for the LGBT community in a video game take very different forms because you can't hide your skin tone, so it wouldn't make sense to give two groups the same representation; you can't "out" someone's skin tone, it's just readily apparent (although apparently even being white doesn't matter because people still notice you're of African descent).
That's literally it, just wanting to focus on one subject. If you want to talk about BLM, you can open another thread, I'd probably discuss it with you. We are in agreement that our situations are not comparable, which is why I felt your comment about showing support for BLM was completely out of place and likened it to comparing LGBT representation with saving the rainforest or stopping global warming (neither of which are political, BTW, it's just about survival of the human species on this planet). The situations are not comparable in any way and therefore should be handled differently.
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Is this a serious question, right now, in 2020?
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Does it even matter? Game's more inclusive now, that's great. What difference does it make if it's what their leadership truly believes in their heart of hearts, lol. I play their game, I don't hang out with the CEO.
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Support is a good spin on something they can profit from. There was definitely a business decision in all of this and the climate was right, is all.
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Ok, well I have a better understanding of where you are coming from, and that absolutely makes sense in the context you provided here, so I appreciate you making it clear to me without condescension.
Politics and our disagreement of it's definition aside, I do agree that the types of discrimination we face are not equal, ironically inequality is not created equal.
I just saw all these forums discussing a single tweet BHVR made on behalf of LGBT, saw that they made a statement and commitment behind that, and felt it was strange that that was the end all of that conversation on support. That being said, they could support and comment on whatever they like as a company
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Spongebob is gay? ######### man...it's a SPONGE.
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I think the makers of the game/characters are for equality, respect, and in support of the LGBTQA.
See, I see the universe of DBD like something similar to DC or Marvel multiverses. Multiple games are being played in multiple realms in the whole world, at the same time.
So definitely in some universes your favourite DBD character could be gay, in some straight, in some bisexual and so on.
I think the characters are written and and are provided with a basic lore (where they might have an ex/SO of the opposite sex/same sex as the case may be) - but it is up-to the player to make them what the former wants them to be.
Sexuality isn't something that is explicitly brought out in the game. The makers do not officially confirm the sexualities of the characters, even though some of them have an ex/SO in their lores. If a player wants their character in their particular universe to be gay, so be it!
For example, I personally am convinced with the David K-Dwight popular fan-coupling, find them cute together, and envision them as a couple. In my universe. Not in anybody else's. Yes, the lore of David says that he had an ex who was a woman. I see David as a sexually fluid/bi/pan character, who doesn't care about who he falls for. Now, he has fallen for Dwight and they are a solid couple.
Now, this does not mean that in other players' universes his sexuality has to be this. If anyone wants him to be straight in their universe, they could go ahead.
So yeah, live and let live!
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As a gay man who reads homophobic comments A LOT in the game chat (from children or child-brained adults) I actually think the devs should be showing support like they have.
I don't like the way this gets debated like 'should they/shouldn't they' situation. They should. They did. Leave it be.
If you're asking whether it's just for good PR and if they don't really care about the LGBTQI+ community, then that's a something different. And something no one can actually answer. Let's just be happy there is at least some recognition.
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The one thing that annoys me about these types of discussions especially when the initial post was brought up is that it is never something that happens when it is a straight relationship or a character that is not LGBT.
No one complained about things being forced when it stated that Frank and Julie are dating.
No one complained about it being forced and not necessary in a horror game when David was revealed to have an ex-girlfriend.
No one complained and said it should be left to the player when a lot of Ace's cosmetics reveal him to be a ladies man.
However at the mere hint that they might start including LGBT characters or a confirming some characters in LGBT a lot of people come out of the woodwork and suddenly start complaining about stuff they were perfectly fine with.
Words like pandering, forced, retcon and shoved down our throats is paraded around constantly without any thought as to the context because if people took 2 seconds to think about it they would realise it doesn't make sense.
Everything panders- the hot chick in horror films doesn't strip because of a plot. It's to get horny butts in seats
Saying something is forced is incredibly ridiculous when you haven't even seen how it's written yet.
Retcon this is my personal favourite because it proves people don't know what the hell is word means. If nothing has been established it can't be retconed.
Shoved down your throat when it was initially promise to that it was that sexual orientation is wouldn't play a factor and it would be left open to interpretation having 7 characters blatantly be revealed as straight is totally not shoving it down people's throat.
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Wrong. Look at Goya foods CEO. He stood up for something and they are trying to boycott his company. Also look at Chick file A awhile back. The CEO, not even the company, but the CEO made a personal statement and there was backlash. Companies only look respectful to the woke mob if it supports a woke cause.
And SpongeBob is not gay. He's a children's cartoon for crying out loud. He never had any sexuality before; it's only being brought up because of the political climate.
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I can't believe you are upset that in a thread about lgbtq characters revolving around a tweet made during Pride month that you want to hijack it all for BLM and paint yourself a victim. I'm glad it didn't work.
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This topic again... Lol. This is a VIDEO GAME, not a political/ideology movement. Gay content isn’t critical or important to this game, just like heterosexual content isn’t important. Money is important, however.
Even if BHVR has LGBT employees themselves, releasing gay content is MOSTLY for profit purposes as it will likely involve pride clothing that a certain demographic will be quick to purchase it.
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Whether it's for profit purposes on night why does it matter if there's inclusion and people are happy with it just let it be.
They could say a character is LGBT or introduce a new LGBT character just for the Brownie points but if people are happy with the inclusion then it shouldn't be a problem people get the representation they want people who don't care about it won't be affected
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Bad faith arguments everywhere, wow...
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It's not important. This is a horror game, but for some reason people have this bizarre idea that there must be some kind of representation in everything. Just take the game for what it is. Yeesh.
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If it's not important and you feel like it doesn't need to be in a horror game why don't you just ignore it.
Why do you feel the need to vocalise how it doesn't belong if it's unimportant to you.
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Maybe he wants to point it out to those who get so tied up in it that they respond to every single post about someone else's opinion. Maybe they just want to show how beat to death the subject is.
I'm not speaking for him, just trying to show you that other people have different thoughts
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My post is still accurate. If they release gay content it’s to make money, not because it’s “important” to be inclusive and appease a small demographic. Because it certainly won’t be free.
Charity Case is a good example of a DLC that actually reflects something BHVR actually cares about. Yes, we pay for it but BHVR isn’t making profit from it (I think).
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I was like "Da fuq could Goya do?" Googled it, and now questioning this ice cold agua de coco by my side. Sigh.
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I could just ignore it, but.. I mean, why should I? Someone asked a question on an open forum, and I gave an opinion that might be the opposite of what others feel. Crazy, I know, especially in 2020.
Additionally, I could go into a giant novel about how focusing on a character's sexual identity, orientation, etc. as their main draw is weak writing and doesn't make compelling or interesting creations, but hey.. that might fly over the heads of most heavily indoctrinated people. Safer to say it adds nothing, and isn't really something that needs to be in a game just for the sake of ticking a diversity box. Let the devs create or license whatever killers/survivors they want without feeling like they have to include concepts because they're x, y, or z.
Just my 2 cents.
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You say that like I had some greater goal in regards to this game.
I found it incredibly short sighted at the time with the riots and everything surrounding George Floyyds death that that moment was being hijacked by libtards, lgbtq+, women's rights, etc. When this was a simple case of something that's been going along and happening for a very long time within the black community with regards to how we are and historically have been treated by the police. We finally have a concerted, concentrated effort at looking at this - and not even a two weeks after the man was in the ground, the discussion went from Elijah Mcclain and Kalief Browder to a celebrity who wants to tell you about asian american attacks and a gay guy mad that some non gay guy played a gay guy in that movie that one time.
But yes, as far as this game goes, that's not really their problem. I mean a BLM shirt would be weird, but maybe you could put in some cultural pieces or something relating to other cultures, of that's your reasoning for deciding to put specifically gay clothing/characters in game. Again, it doesn't matter and black people are in the game already anyway. So I dropped it.
And you decided to respond to a dropped conversation to make yourself look morally superior.. but you just came off as a bigot. Assuming that because I'm black and stand for black issues, I in any way view myself as a victim... Wow.
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It only gets beaten to death because people keep bringing up mindless nitpick about it.
The reason people tend to post is usually not because someone has a different opinion but because the opinion is translated in such a bad way.
Honestly if someone came up with a valid reason why LGBT shouldn't be included in the game that couldn't be easily picked apart with about 5 Seconds of thought then I would have completely respect that person but since this tweet has been released I have yet to see anybody make this point
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It's a charity case of course they're not going to make money off it.
You can't sell people a charity in fact most of the time people have charity outfit it's usually just to entice people into actually supporting the charity.
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In the grand scheme of things Dead by daylight has no base story no story elements actually add anything.
No story released in archives will actually have any impact on the game but there are people out there who do enjoy learning about characters their personal life and other things for those people it is important.
As for focusing as their main draw that is not what people are asking for look how subtly David's archives revealed that he had an ex girlfriend.
"His ex has moved on and she doesn't want to see his face. Something about being a shithead."
You could have edited this in whichever way you wanted and it wouldn't have changed anything.
Replace she with he or just say they to leave it ambiguous. You can reveal as characters sexuality in one sentence without make it their entire character.
It's not like we want this to be the story instead.
"Feng Min is a lesbian she went to go talk to her lesbian girlfriend about lesbian things after which they decided to play some lesbian games with the other lesbian friends because lesbians"
But sometimes it legitimately comes across as that's how people think we want the story to be written.
Like how they did with David simple and easy if you want to expand on it you can it's legitimately not hard to write an LGBT character who sexuality isn't their entire character traits.
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It doesn't affect gameplay. However, it can affect how someone feels about themselves. I'll explain . . .
It's important for people of marginalized groups to see themselves represented be it in a game, on television, in movies, in books, wherever.
Why is it important?
Because when people don't see themselves represented, especially younger folks, they interpret that as something is wrong with them. They're not good enough to be included. They don't belong. They're bad and the "other" is better.
This very thing has historically and continues to lead to suicide. Imagine if all the media you consumed showed only people that were opposite and not like you at all. It could feel really lonely, depressing, etc.
Even if it's not mentioned in game and doesn't impact gameplay, it can make someone feel like they are okay.
I'm glad that BHVR will be inclusive.
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Again, I’m still right. Unless there’s “Charity Pride Case” then any gay content means supporting that demographic isn’t the primary goal, money is. And there’s nothing wrong with that, but it doesn’t make LGBT “important to the game”.
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I feel like the premise here is so dumb that I shouldn't waste time answering it, but I'm going to assume some of you are really young and don't know any better.
The entire world is coming to a better understanding of what it is like to be LGBT, and the entire world has realized that LGBT people have been marginalized (at best) in so many ways throughout history. Now the entire world is trying to finally erase the stigma attached to LGBT persons - giving them the right to marry, educating people on what it means to be LGBT, and incorporating them into media. There are plenty of LGBT folks in real life, and therefore there should be plenty of LGBT folks in media.
The very idea that BHVR is going "Ooh let's make this guy gay, we;re gonna be rich!" is utterly ridiculous. Evidenced by this very thread, where quite a few people are seething with resentment over it.
This is not a trend. This is a step forward in world culture.
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But it's not important to the game that's what I'm saying if it gets added it literally effects nothing.
If they add a sentence in the archives about whichever character being LGBT it doesn't really do much. People who wants the inclusion or care about that specific character get some insight into them. Because for them it is actually important.
People who don't care will look at that sentence in the archives and move on with the game because it's not important to them.
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You just proved how wrong you are about everything. You tried to take a topic completely out of the bounds of the thread and turn it into a discussion on BLM. Don't deny it, it's in writing.
You say that you didn't like the protests being turned into something else by liberals(I won't use a ride term like you did) and then you try to do exactly that.
You paint yourself as a victim by saying your movement (based on mostly lies and misconceptions) was taken over by others.
Also, you resorted to name calling which is just immature. No where did I say anything that could be construed as bigotry. But play the "he disagreed with me so he's a RacIsT" card all you want.
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I honestly can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not so idk how to respond
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Ok, I agree with this - it’s not important to everyone, which means it’s not important to the game... just those who would like to see their small demographic represented.
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Saying you come across as X isn't the same as saying you are X. Misunderstandings are a thing, like how you just misunderstood what someone else was saying and assumed they were calling you a racist.
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Honestly, in a game revolving around murdering and escsping murder I don't even get where romance and sexuality of any kind whatsoever even matters.
In fact, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only romance of any kind that's even been mentioned in the game at all is between wraith and nurse, correct? Which seemed strange to me in any regards.
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Yup, just like the Spirit and Oni being Asian, it doesn't impact the game in any way, positively or negatively, except for those minorities that enjoy it. So overall, it's a good thing because it has no downside and makes some people happy.
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