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Remove unbreakable
Comments
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When ad hominem is the point of the argument its not ad hominem, ad hominem is taking away from another argument to directly attack the person
example of ad hominem
person 1: "water is wet"
person 2: "water is dry and you are dumb"
example of not ad hominem
Person 1: you are dumb
Person 2: you are babyman
ad hominem is more of a secondary to arguements where someone argues their point while attacking the other person with defamatory statements (which technically are only defamatory when they are false aka slander (oral false defamation) or libel (written false defamation)
And as my argument was only the statements it was not ad hominem
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half of the people understood my point, the other half, just randomly answered and attacked me, but i was glad to accept everybody's opinion, even if some of these comments triggered me. seriously tho, didn't expect this post to reach 3k views, guess i feel kinda famous and popular now for having raised a fuss in this forum, well, it's still good to hear different opinions and points of view about some perks, strategies, builds, etc.
i admit it was more of a "i wanna give vent" thread, but like i said, i'm kinda glad to have raised a fuss, so everybody could say his opinion, even if some of these guys offended me lol.
guess this is the game and we should blame the people who made these perks more than the players abusing them. guess i'm gonna just accept the game the way it is and deal with it even if players still act like a pain in the back with their toxic behaviour after they've been carried by crutch perks xD
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Simple solution: don't slug. It's not an op perk. It's rare to even use it
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Fight fire with fire, bro. Meet toxic behavior with toxic behavior. Run NOED if you need to in order to catch that dub.
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Ok and?
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Out of curiosity, which killer were you playing? You would not have this problem with certain killers.
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Unbreakable must to be activate when the killer knock more than 2 survivors ... And repair the genrush ....
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If you didn't slug, you wouldn't have an issue with unbreakable.
That one's on you.
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You yalk about rank 1 but you have no idea what they play like never in my life have I seen a rank one killer slug 4 people. Two is max anymore and you just lack control over your survivors.
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Remove NoEd then you can talk.
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JUST HOOK 4HEAD
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No, you first. NOED exists as long as Adrenaline exists, it's the only counter to the perk.
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This was my reaction to this rant. I didn't even read because I knew it was a rant just by reading the title and the number of comments.
Please dude, use paragraphs when writing a lot of text and separate the ideas by using them.
Thanks.
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1. Survivors completing gens is their only objective to escape...quit crying about "gen rushing". Imagine survivors complaining about "kill rushing"...sounds stupid huh
2. So 2 games in a row you got gen rushed and "had" to slug? Seems unlikely to me. Sounds more like you were slugging.
3. It's very simple to hook and go. And did you seriously say the hooks being too far was a reason to slug? Come on...
4. Upset they didn't "accept defeat". Give me a break. Why did you not accept defeat?
5. You don't know who has unbreakable or ds? Easy fix. Hook and go. Someone gets off the hook? Don't tunnel them! Now you will hardly ever have to worry about those "meta second chance crutch" perks again. Amazing...
6. So 3 gens down and u get 1 guy on the hook and you decide to camp? You lost the match right there. You leave 3 ppl with no pressure to complete 2 gens while you babysit someone on a hook? Genius.
7. They "didn't give you a chance to patrol"...seriously?
I'm not going to bother going through anymore of your comments they're too asinine. None of the perks you're complaining about need to be nerfed. You simply need to learn how to play killer outside of slugging and camping. Yes, I'm a killer main.
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You're so toxic it's pathetic. I always play fair and try not to ruin the fun for the killer, but you're the type of killer I'd bully without remorse. And I solo queue. If I see a Mori, you're being looped, stunned, blinded and tbagged. Stop acting like you're a god.
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I can't remember a time where there were 2 gens left and I had not gotten a single hook. At that rate you deserve to lose cuz that match has already gotten away from you. It is not the time to turn into a super douche and play poorly because you were lacking for the 1st 3/4s of the game.
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4 guys downed? That's exactly why Unbreakable exists in the first place, to help counter killers that slug for the 4k. Imagine how easy the game would be if you used a slug build with powerful killers such as Nurse and Oni, knowing unbreakable no longer exists. This game would turn into an even bigger slug fest with those kinds of killers and builds.
Imagine Knockout being meta and you're playing solo survivor with no unbreakables. Would be dreadful.
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Since when was bbq and pop broken?🤔
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Getting genrushed is you fault lol
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Yey lets been toxic because the survival do your objective
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this post still gets comments after 1 week and i love how all the survivor mains get triggered and feel bu***urt after reading this thread <3
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People are still under the misconception that you can 12 hook everybody and still win the game without slugging. So ya, i'm really not surprised by any of the comments here.
I agree with you though, Unbreakable needs to go, it would stop the stacking of UB + Soul guard + DS and make survivors a lot less crutch reliant. Either that, or give unbreakable a condition to use it (a strict one).
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Imagine posting a thread with the title "Remove DS"
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I know it may be shocking for you, but: Unbreakable is meant to counter slugged and you slugged. Your logical conclusion is to nerf a perk for doing what it's supposed to do? Wow, killer mains are at a all time low.
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So what happens when survivors start getting slugged when unbreakable doesnt exist or the requirement is too strict. If the game becomes like that the playerbase for survivors will drop and you wont get any games unbreakable was made to counter slugging.
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If the killer slugs and it works effectively, the survivors grouped up and had short chases. That is the survivors fault 100%. The killer is not in control and is simply going of the survivors mistakes of grouping up.
The only killer that unbreakable is actually balanced towards is nurse, but that's because she's mental. Even then if the survivors split up she'll have a much harder time slugging. Every other killer - even oni and billy - are screwed against it.
Also, if survivors quit because one of their crutches gets removed, then that really shows what type of playerbase we have. IMO though only the ones who crutched off unbreakable would complain, while many others wouldn't. I doubt many survivors would quit.
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I've done it. Got my first hook with 2 gens left, from there I snowballed. Ended up with a nice solid 3K.
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Yes its 100% the survivors fault but also we play the game to have fun being slugged is not fun. Slugging isnt healthy from a gameplay pov because you arent doing much of the gameplay. What if you are solo and none of your teammates have it and you run the killer until they bleed out and then you finally go down you think that survivor should lose?
Unbreakable is balanced against all killers not just nurse. Slugging survivors was meta in 2016 before bill. The devs have already stated how they dont like slugging nor encourage it. That's why they made bill they didnt want to make it bannable so they gave him a perk to stop it.
So let me ask you if the devs made this perk with the sole responsiblity for it to counter slugging how is it a crutch? Regardless of your skill you will go down at some point if the killers chooses to you will be slugged.
You are entitled to your opinion even if it's wrong and you are so wrong. People will quit the killer queue times will get longer. Why do you think DS is the only thing *good* killers complain about when it comes to the DS/UB combo?
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I would like to know how often this occurs. We as humans tend to dwell on small negatives that occurs rarely rather than big positives that occurs often. It is unlikely Unbreakable turns the tide in many games. If it were overpowered and unfairly impacted gameplay like MoM it would be changed. And I don't get why there is such a hostility toward so called second chance perks. Survivors can be removed from the game while killers are guaranteed to make it to the end while other perks would come out 23 survivors later but perks that help facilitate surviving?
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I gotta say, you're making a lot of sense right now. It's just not the same game when SWFs, or shoot even non-SWFs, get things like ADR,Unbreakable, they just dead hard past you every single chase and heal in between chases, and during all of that you have to eat 2-4 DS'. I've had so many of those. Luckily console players aren't as sweaty as my usual PC elite crowd. I'd be rank 13 going up against rank 1-3s and they'd be decked out like with comms and I uninstalled for a while because of it.
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Them how come the devs don't want slow down perks working together?
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From a gameplay POV, the survivors allow the killer to slug due to grouping up. If you are not grouped up there is not a single reason for the killer to slug at all as they waste too much time. If the killer slugs and there is no one nearby, he's just going to lose at that point. Also we don't balance around solo players, if we did all the top tier killers would be nerfed into the ground. Even then, survivors are still bad even if you solo queue or not.
Slugging was meta in 2016 because deerstalker was a cheap nurses, sabo existed and survivors simply weren't that good. Slugging was never bannable (i think, correct me if wrong) due to the bleedout timer, unbreakable would've never changed anything.
It's a crutch because survivors who group up and allow themselves to be slugged rely on unbreakable to save them. If they were just better and didn't group up unbreakable would have no use. If the killer slugs you while no one is around the killer is the one making the mistake.
With the DS/UB combo though, at least DS is well designed. It's waaaaay overtuned and 60 seconds is way to long, but at least that counters tunneling, something out of the survivors control. Unbreakable counters slugging which is done because the survivors played bad, not because the killer played bad.
Idk about you but I see just as many complaints about unbreakable as DS. Plus if UB got removed then it would also remove the soul guard combo.
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No it's not a counter as It doesn't counter Adrenaline it allows you to kill people without Adrenaline. You clearly didn't think about your response.
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If you leave a survivor on the ground long enough to be able to use their unbreakable then that's your fault.
That perk was made to counter exactly what you're doing.
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What do you mean? Most slowdown perks do work together and not everything can have synergy with everything else.
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you shouldnt just slug all 4 survivors to win
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ah, #########, here we go again
dont slug then, bruh, slugging is as cringe as unbreakable, so, please, stfu
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killer doesnt have to slug
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well if you cant play - derank
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You can remove Unbreakable yourself: stop slugging.
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You know what gonna say something here..Maybe unbreakable should be in the base kit..You know If they nerf all the "Second chance" perks.
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Actually, it is REALLY easy, OP. You just need to hook instead of going after every survivor you see the moment you see them, because you want to match to end asap and get a 4k no matter what. If you have just downed a guy and there is another one injured close to you, then commit to the chase. If not, leave him or hit him once and then hook the first guy. If you expect survivors not to use the "crutches" they have at their disposal, when killers run stuff like NoeD, play broken easy killers, only hit with instadowns even when they could land a normal hit or no hit at all, and tunnel you forever thanks to Bloodlust alone, you are being kinda delusional here.
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Only one of them will have DS active though lol? That's if they got recently unhooked
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Unbreakable on its own is a completely fine perk.
For it to do literally anything requires you to: A: Lose a chase, which you kinda don't want, :B Have the killer not hook you immediately, and C: Have the killer not near you when you stand up so that you actually cause harm to killer tempo rather than instantly going down again at no cost to the killer. In addition, D: it can only be used once per-match.
For it to proc generally requires a teammate instantly getting in another chase meaning your giving killer more tempo and snowball potential, which is rough because its an anti-snowball perk. If it comes in clutch because the killer downed a bunch of people in a row and literally can't hook fast enough, your probably going to lose despite it. So it is kinda just... not very good...
*On its own.*
The problem with unbreakable is that it contributes to a 'critical mass' of 'down negation' effects. Specifically, in combination with DS it creates a period of time where the killer basically can't do anything to you besides a very minor match tempo loss you don't really care about, meaning you can make absurdly risky plays right in the killer's face, which goes against the spirit of both perks. On its own, Unbreakable is nothing but an anti-snowball tool that lets you get one last burst of air into a game that was already choked out. With DS, its probably one of the most toxic and non-thematic perk combos in the game and is solidly S++ tier because it effectively gives the survivor team 4.5 hook states per survivor, rather than 3.
The problem isn't just this critical recovery mass, where every down-negation perk synergizes and gets more and more effect. It ALSO is because it creates a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' problem for killers. Killers have two ways to win: efficiently tunnel out a survivor VERY fast to get a tempo lead on survivors before they get to 2 gens to make it so they can pressure survivors faster than they repair by just chasing one, or by effectively pressuring more than one survivor at once via things like slugging, interfering with unhooks, multi-chases, ect.
The problem is Slugging is easily the best of those options and Unbreakable punishes slugging so hard. So killers can't multi-pressure. But DS also is very strong anti-tunnel, so killers can't eliminate a player fast. So killers have no real option besides winning an extra 2 (in theory 4 but even with DS unbreakable once you get down to 2 survivors even with 1 gen its kinda over) chases as the survivors get an extra life despite not doing anything to earn it.
So its pretty clear these two perks need to be made either non-compatable (A theoretical 'heroic' tag for perks for example, would make sense, for perks that alter the killer's win condition and provide defense against one of the methods the killer uses to win the game, so you can't stack them at all), or the function of these perks need to change. Together they still have counterplay, but the counterplay is 'be so absurdly good at the game you can win despite needing two entire extra chases.
The common fan suggestion for changing DS fixes a lot of problems with the perk and makes it better at stopping the unfun thing it is meant to stop while also making it less of an 'offensive tool': Make its timer not reduce in chase or if your down, make its timer instantly hit 0 if you press M1 on anything besides self recovery while down, so that its perfect anti-tunnel but the second you start advancing the game its off. This would mean you can't use it with unbreakable for 1 minute of immunity to do dumb stuff in the killer's face, the killer would have a very good idea if you COULD DS so you can't use the threat of DS to get a free unbreakable, but can still use both perks together to force the killer to chase at least one other person before they get you out of the game.
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I want you to tell me how he's supposed to track and monitor all 4 slugs at once and insta down them during UB, It's quite possibly one of the hardest things to manage in DBD, you lose so many slugs unrightfully to hatch bc you were too good and downed them all too quick
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ask any killer main content creator who each have thousands of hours, they will tell you, there's basically no way to win without playing top teir everything to not use either slugging, camping or tunneling the latter 2 basically force slugging to not get hit by DS. Scott Jund said this exact thing in one of his videos.
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Under the negative bias thing if we put it in reverse where all 4 survivors genrush the killer can loop efficently and have second chance perks to save them in the situation they mess up (like dead hard). Will the 4 survivors still outweigh the killer since its 4v1 and the devs are just like "its fine"? I know a few youtubers that have said yes (true and otz for example) the killer gets 0 kills for example and theres nothing much they can do about it unless they maybe have like noed or something (which is a hex). The 4 survivors had their fun game but the killer got nothing and feels like they wasted their time or that survivors just have most of the power. You can camp as the killer to confirm a kill but then its just boring for the person on the hook and for the killer and its pretty much a one for one in negativity. They genrushed and were toxic (from the killer pov) so you confirm a kill on them. And they just feel like your a toxic killer whos mad cuz bad.
Post edited by supersonic853 on0 -
Unbreakable might maybe be fine on its own, its all the second chances combined that cause dumb situations where the killer can't realistically do anything. There's a perk for any smart move a killer should be making.
Hook them - DS
Slug them - UB/Adrenaline
Punish an unsafe unhook - BT
They won't make the loop, down them - DH
ect.
You add in these are all usually run in tandem and survivors will purposely put themselves in your way with something like current DS and BT and it just becomes a big lose-lose-lose for the killer in a lot of situations.
Also like others have said, the survivors pretty much need to allow you to slug by all being grouped up, all going down quickly, and no one picking anyone else up, 4 survivors in a row. That's kinda on them at that point and I don't agree with a perk just undoing multiple misplays on the survivor side by just holding down a button.
So maybe UB should be looked into on its own, but the second chance combos definitely need to go. I haven't thought about it much before, but I can definitely see the argument for why UB can be a little dumb and just erase survivor misplays. I don't think we need many, if any, perks like that. Yet we full loadouts filled with them.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
why is this post still getting commments? this is from August 2020.
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If you know they don't have ds just hook them or if you're going to slug expect someone myn't have it. Unbreakable was designed for survivors to have a counter to slugging so it shouldn't be removed for doing what it's designed to do.
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