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Can We Make DS And Corrupt Base Kit?
Title.
People don't want to have to run a perk to not get gen rushed and a perk to not get tunneled. I don't think this would break the game. Obviously they might need to be tweaked to work better as base kit.
Edit: If people are opposed to making perks base kit the devs could also build in basekit counters to tunneling and gen rushing.
Comments
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No.
Any kind of DS changes will only incline killers to complain for more changes.
They will never be satisfied, they'll move the goal post every time they imagine a new situation.
2 -
Thats why they should tweak it. Most peoples problem with DS is that its not just great at anti tunnel, its good at anti momentum. If they made it focus more on anti tunnel killers can't complain. I appreciate the opinion though.
12 -
No. DS is way too strong right now and I also just don't like the idea of abilities like that becoming base kit. There's no precedent for anything like that in the game.
CI feels like less far-fetched to add as part of the base kit, but still, I'm not convinced that would be good for balance.
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Survivor gets unhooked i go after unhooker hook him see the previously unhooked survivor on a gen didnt even get healed guess im going over to smack his dumb ass down and hope he doesnt have unbreakable because i obviously tunneled. Then survivors complain why slugging exists. Not anti tunnel anti momentum try to prove me otherwise in your killer knoweldge if your a killer main like you say
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Thats why they should tweak stuff. Tweak DS to make it anti tunnel instead of anti momentum. I hate having to equip DS just because I don't wanna get tunneled. And I hate having to run Corrupt on Trapper to avoid losing 2-3 gens. I appreciate the opinion though.
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100% agreed they should tweak DS, and agreed that CI is very important on Trapper, but I still don't love the idea of making either base kit. Trapper can snowball insanely fast with even one hook in the right place, so I feel his slow early game is the price he pays for his high potential once he gets set up. If we want to buff him in other ways I'd be down, but I would prefer to leave gens as they are.
I'm sure you know all this, but as survivor there are plenty of ways to not get tunneled without DS:
- Loop well. If a killer tries to tunnel the best looper on the team, it's very likely they won't do better than a 1k.
- Play cautious after getting hooked. I almost never intentionally tunnel someone as killer, but if you're trying to repair the same gen I just downed you at before you stop to heal I will happily hook you again. Once you get a quick second hook that's when some killers might decide to take advantage and tunnel you out of the game. I don't, but people who are trying to win will.
- Run Kindred or play in a SWF. That way you're less likely to get farmed, which is a common reason why people end up getting "tunneled".
- Don't play toxic. If you click flashlights, tbag at pallets, etc. you're way more likely to get tunneled.
- Don't bring a key. Some killers hate keys.
- Don't be shy about brushing the killer off on teammates if you're in trouble. If you're getting chased while on death hook and you have the chance to run through a jungle gym with teammates in it, for example, it's probably smart to do it. You're more useful to your team alive than dead, even if that means interrupting gen progress. The one major exception would be if you have adrenaline and that's the last gen.
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Thats fair, I personally disagree though. As for not getting tunneled. I know all that. But if one of my dummy team mates unhooks me 10 feet away from the killer and they don’t have borrowed time I kinda want DS. It’s pretty hard to loop someone when they’re right next to you.
Post edited by SCP_FOR_DBD on4 -
DS does need changes though. It needs conditions.
Dead hard - exhaustion, and you have to be injured.
Sprint Burst - exhaustion, has a huge downside of not being accurately controlled.
Lithe - requires a vault.
Deliverance - you need to earn your escape from the hook by safely unhooking someone else.
DS? No earning, no conditions. Just 60 seconds of invulnerability. If it existed purely for anti tunnel, it'd be fine. But the fact that you can sit on a gen, and progressing the game, and literally be invincible cause you still have DS is broken.
You will never be right about this. Rely on DS more.
5 -
Eh, no. I think devs can do better than slapping some perks into the base kit to solve design issues and boring gameplay mechanics.
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If DS is changed to be an anti-tunnel perk and CI is changed to be an anti-genrush perk I don't know why not. I personally think CI should wear off(one gen at a time) when survivors are downed or hooked, not on a static timer. Just like DS should wear off when the survivor does any objective instead of a static timer.
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That a good use of DS most of the problem with DS are when they do gen in the killer face and are like you cant grab me if you do you get DS and if you slug me i will just use unbreakable and finish the gen.
Its the same during endgame the DS user is like fool you only hook me ounce ofc i still have DS and look my teamate just open the gate look at my free escape and if you slug me i will just crawl out hahaha baby killer
This is the survivor with DS in a nutshell
1 -
This EXACTLY.
It's SUPPOSED to be anti tunnel, but it's just anti momentum. It ENCOURAGES survivors to make stupid plays because it's a get out of jail free card for 60 seconds.
Anti momentum - do you know how screwed up that is?? It's basically rewarding the survivor for getting caught while simultaneously punishing the killer for doing their objective too well.
6 -
Yeah, it can certainly be abused.
1 -
DS isn't supposed to be an anti-tunnel perk...why do you think they haven't changed it by now? Ignorance? No, it's because they know that there's nothing wrong with the perk, it's just the community that's confused at how a perk can help prevent tunneling and simultaneously be useful outside of tunneling scenarios. Here's a hint: A perk doesn't have to be specifically designed to counter something in order to counter it naturally. Think Fixated and Spirit.
Post edited by Waffleyumboy on0 -
They "no" there's nothing wrong? They know there's a lot wrong with something so powerful being given for free. Imagine thinking there's nothing wrong with a perk that does what DS does. I smell a DS reliant survivor.
Exit the conversation.
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Corrupt Intervention as basekit would’ve been an easy early game solution the devs could’ve implemented.
But instead they made it a bandaid fix that takes up a perk slot.
6 -
I don't know about them being basekit but I like your idea.
2 -
DS is literally is an anti tunnel perk.
Question: What led to the decision to put the timer on Decisive Strike?
Horvath: We decided to put a timer on Decisive Strike as one of the solutions to Decisive Strike being used too often, we tried 2 minutes internally and found that players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed
I highlighted the part that confirms its anti tunnel.
7 -
If they tweak DS in one of the many ways people have suggested maybe. As long as it ends up in a non-abusable state I don't care if you give everyone unlimited DS. The problem right now is that is hits people clearly not tunneling at all.
3 -
I'd prefer borrowed time being part of the base kit, I don't like being farmed, no one does. DS is too strong to be part of the base kit, it would have to be a super weak DS for it to be part of base kit, like 30 seconds, or something.
2 -
Pointing out a small mistake in my grammar and calling me names doesn't help your argument. DS is too easy to avoid to deserve a nerf, but I think you deserve to get good and stop complaining about a perfectly balanced perk that I absolutely don't mind to see as killer myself. Why? Because I know how to play around it and exploit survivor cockiness to gain an edge over them. Things you should learn to do before your head explodes from having to comprehend too many complex strategies like "slugging" and "distributing pressure". I don't expect you to reply, you made it evident from your last comment that you have run out of valid arguments and have resorted to name calling. Here's your L.
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Being farmed is NOT being tunneled according to most killer mains. Killer mains have no argument here.
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This is true, DS never was an anti tunnel perk, it's a perk that let's the survivor have a guarantee wiggle, the original was too strong, because if all 4 survivors had it, all 4 survivors could stun the killer on their first down.
The new DS is in a good place, the condition for it to activate is after you've been unhooked for 60 seconds, if the killer tunnels you they get stunned, if the killer finds you within those 60 seconds they also get stunned. It's in a good place right now, anyone who had to deal with the original DS would know that.
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I think killer mains also forget that if a killer is tunneling you after being unhooked, the survivor is not necssarily going to go down within the first few seconds after being unhooked, their rscuer may have had BT allowing the person to take a hit and run, meaning a chase now started, and a chase can last easily up to a minute, depending on the skill of the survivor, killer, and if there aren't any dead zones around the hook. 60 seconds definitely does protect you from tunneling because what tunneling is, is a killer not breaking off the chase of one survivor and chases can last for some time.
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I'd be for making Borrowed Time and Corrupt basekit but no way in hell would I be for it if the perk was DS, you literally couldn't have picked a stronger survivor perk. However if they brought old ruin back I am sure killers wouldn't mind. :)
2 -
I don't want to be the bearer of bad news. But that quote also specifies tunneling as well as farming.
2 -
DS on its own isn't too bad. When all 4 people have it it can be real annoying because you can legit chase and hook someone else, come back and chance upon that first person, and by the time you chase and down them, they've STILL got DS up. That can be infuriating, especially near end-game when that kind of ######### just means a free escape.
Pair it with unbreakable and it's just a nightmare.
It'd be like if I had a perk where if you made me chase you too long (the "anti-looping" perk) then after I picked you up I'd just get to do a really easy skillcheck to auto-yeet you to the basement hooks.
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We all already knew that DS helps stop tunneling
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But it specifies that its to stop tunneling, whats your point?
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The quote specifies that it's to stop tunneling and farming...
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Yeah, only those 2. Therefore its anti momentum when it shouldn't be.
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You obviously don't know what farming means...
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Since when did farming mean momentum?
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Farming is the purest form of momentum, right?
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I've literally never seen farming used in the context of momentum. I'll make a post about it to be sure.
2 -
Farming isn't an action of the killer its an action of the survivor so its completely unrelated to a killer's momentum.
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It wouldn't be farming if the killer wasn't there to benefit from it. Please bring an argument that doesn't look like Swiss cheese.
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Wouldn't that be mutually beneficial and not momentum for either side then?
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You really don't know what farming means. I'm tired rn. I'll explain tomorrow. Good night.
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My argument maybe Swiss cheese but its better then your thin air.
Farming is survivor based as its done simply to gain BP rather then to actually help the team.
1 -
I don't know how I've managed misunderstand it all this time. Guess I'll know tomorrow. Good Night.
1 -
The perk is primarily used for anti-tunneling - tunneling should not be available as a cheap tactic to win. Therefore yes, DS, although a bit nerfed, should be basekit, same as corrupt to prevent 3 gens from being done after downing the first person.
DS we have now is fine as it is. To be fair, it is a perk you may not even use once during a match. It is used in a scummy way only rarely and survivors use it mainly to prevent being tunneled. I can't imagine going solo queue without DS.
All killer mains should have the experience of being proxy camped and tunneled off the hook without DS or Borrowed Time and see if they have fun. Maybe then they will stop complaining.
1 -
I've thought about it recently and I really think DS could be a basekit mechanic if it were heavily restricted.
-30 second timer
-Timer freezes in chase and slows to half speed while in the dying state
-Deactivates when another survivor is hooked or you perform an unhook/repair/sabotage/cleansing action
-Does not activate on locker grabs
-Does not activate after the generators are completed (alternatively: does not activate within the exit zone)
Then they could change the perk to do something like: When you escape the killer's grasp (by any means), the killer is stunned for an additional 1/2/3 seconds. For the duration of the stun, you make no sound and leave no scratchmarks or bloodtrails.
As for Corrupt, they said they're planning some sort of mechanic to help slow the early game, so it may not be necessary. We'll have to wait and see.
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Main main main main main. Main.
What about survivors? If I get farmed, it's not getting tunneled. If the killer then proceeds to completely ignore the arsehole that farmed me, then yeah, I got tunneled. But if we both go down and I get picked up? Not so much. Or, in fact, at all. I wish that DS, in that situation, let you both escape AND confer a hook state onto your farmer. If they die... Maybe they should learn to play better.
2 -
I would have another more on the troll side idea. Make a perk or a baseline passive called "not like this" (Don't know if this name already exists).
When a survivor tries to farm a hooked survivor inside the killers VICINITY (not tr!) without bt, you can resist the unhook (farm) and siphon a health state from the unhooker (deep wound in case they were injured).
This would make the unhooker the target after an unsafe play and discourage tunneling the hooked survivor. Also this would give the choice to the survivor on hook and not the one with/without bt.
I know this is probably not usable or whatever, I just thought this up from the top of my head right now.
Edit: To clarify, you would still be unhooked. The "resist" part is more flavour text. I just read in another thread about kicking the survivor that tries to unhook unsafely.
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so you are contending that a killer should be able to keep 2-3 mental clocks going on how long its been since they saw and downed a survivor they were not intending to tunnel? a clock that doesn't start when they hook, but starts after they get unhooked? all too often i see survivors search out the killer after being unhooked with DS to get "value" out of the perk. why are you advocating for such a baby hand holding perk. tunneling killers should be punished to an extent however survivors who jump into a locker, those that jump right on a gen, or heal brazenly at the base of the hook knowing they are better served as a sacrificial lamb to get the 5 second stun off this is not very sportsmanlike.
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DS really isn't that OP, killers get DH, and that has an inbuilt mori. Sure the totem can be destroyed, but it can be combined with haunted grounds or hex hunt, and with the new hex perk it'll be even stronger.
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Absolutely not. Corrupt, maybe. But definitely not Decisive. I get that it's supposed to be anti-tunneling, but it's hardly anti-tunneling if you are brazenly baiting the killer into downing and picking you up or grabbing you out of a locker.
I see DS being used offensively so often that I just automatically assume every survivor has it, so I tunnel in the hopes of eating it early which of course is no fun for the survivors but being hit with DS is no fun for me as a killer, either.
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^ this.
If DS would be an Anti-Tunnel Perk, it would protect me if the Killer goes after me and cannot catch me in one minute. Often enough I get chased, survive a little bit longer than a minute and they can pick me up. I 100% got tunneled, but DS does not protect me. (I mean, I can jump into the Locker, but according to this forum, I can also eat Babies, thats the same level of evil)
Same with getting slugged - the Killer tunneled, he does not NOT-tunnel me, just because he leaves me on the ground.
If DS works as a true Anti-Tunnel Perk, it can have retrictions. But then it needs to be a big middlefinger for any Killer who goes after someone who just got unhooked.
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I feel like this would be reasonable if DS deactivated under the following conditions:
- Repairing a generator
- Being healed to Healthy
- Entering a locker
- Unhooking a survivor
If any of those are happening, you are not being tunneled. The killer has zero obligation to eat your stun and is 100% within their rights to leave you on the ground to keep pressure up
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