Something I've notice about the whole mori fiasco

rather than nerfing the mori the way they did (making them near useless) they should have worked like most stack perks.

either you get 1 free kill with green after 2 hooks on ANY survivor (so hooking any 2 players = mori next victim you down) and pink being that you may kill one player after one hook and a second player after 3 hooks

OR

they should have had max charges in the old form so green = 1 mori, pink = 2.

as it stands right now with the new mori requirement unless you play a meta killer in a meta build against sub par survivors you will never get any use from a mori because 1 chase = 1 or 2 minutes of chase vs decent survivors in which by the time you hook THAT survivor once, the other 3 have likely done 2 or even 3 gens, by the time you hook that same person a second time on a not so meta killer you will already be on your last gen.

and to put icing on the bull crap cake, mori takes much longer than a simple hook meaning that extra time for a "wicked sick nasty animation bro!" kill will likely cost you 3 escapes.

mori is more or less a self imposed handicap now.

meanwhile keys can win a 4 man escape if the team are lucky enough to find eachother or an orginized SWF group rush the hatch as soon as it spawns.

I mean I can complain that keys not being nerfed because to remove one or the other but not both at the same time for these item is a good design choice, shadow nerfing them is still kinda annoying but more understandable but nerfing one but not the other instead of waiting for both just isn't a good change, right direction, wrong method/timing

yes I know moris need to be nerfed, and yes I know keys need to be nerfed, but for the sake of temporary balance its not good

and the amount moris got nerfed is a bit much and the only key nerf I can think on par with it would be last survivor can open hatch with key

That’s not a fix to keys, there can be 1 gen left and if say one person leaves with a key, as soon as that hatch closes the End Game Timer will start and the survivors get away with a free gen being done.

You may say “oh make it so that doesn’t happen”, not as easy as it looks as it’s a functionality not a number change. It’s like saying make it when a survivor walks over a Hag trap it doesn’t activate, that’s not easy because it’s original function is to activate when a survivor is standing up.

All of this requires waaaaaaay more work than you think.

Hey--just wanted to say that I very much agree with the majority of what you said here, with one exception; being able to kill everyone after 2 hooks is kind of the opposite of rarely strategically useful. If you're using BBQ, sure, but even considering the length of some Mori animations there are plenty of times I would rather kill someone directly without hooking them. I would argue that it's still functionally one of the strongest killer offerings, just not broken like it was before the change.

The issue is the way the devs have managed this community.

Following the trajectory of the game its been a net 'killer buff, survivor nerf', however the devs have done this without any significant push back on killers.

The result is an entire class of entitled killers who think if they go onto the forums and whine hard enough they will get what they want.

Anyone's whose played since release and being paying attention would know this. The problem is that a certain % of the population has no perspective they just know tribalistic talking points 'Survivor bad, poor killers'.

Most of the time I disagree with almost everything you say. This time, however, I agree with you.

I too, was under the impression that any reasonable killer player would understand that a Mori nerf was necessary and it's better that it comes sooner rather than later, especially when it's something relatively simple. I guess I was wrong...

Mori's aren't a direct response to keys, they just make dealing with keys a lot easier and I don't blame killers for using them to do so. However, they are still pretty powerful, because you can still tunnel someone off second hook with a Mori without worrying about DS. They can still be used against keys, they're just not as easy to use...

Now, to be fair, regarding your last assertion, every single post complaining about Mori nerfs has a pretty decent amount of people shutting them down, as well as people supporting them, and most of the support I've seen is because it was a nerf that came before the survivor counterpart, which I guess it's better than not agreeing with the nerf at all.

I'm sure if the situation were reversed it would be a similar thing, you'd have people complaining about it, you'd have people agreeing, and people shutting them down.

Finally someone said it , killers are the ones that whine ! Thank you I have been saying this. They complain about every single thing under the sun

actually currently it's all about killers getting nerfed and the survivor mains like yourself (your post seems to point that way) say GET GUD or some crap like that. but before that it was survivors being nerfed and killers being buffed and killer mains were saying GET GUD or some crap like that. hmmm seems like it goes in cycles yes but currently there is a much larger gap in the survivor buffing that is happening. This has fostered a rivalry between those that main one or the other and it's just toxic as hell. GUYS listen to yourselves! the issue that is being brought up here is not that the mori's were changed to second hook, some are saying mori's are worse now and useless now, and others are praising the devs for doing this becuase they wanted it a long time ago.

PEOPLE the problem is as follows:

1) Mori's and Keys have both been identified as an item that is in a good state for the game over all. and this is spoken to by both survivor and killer main alike that both of these are needing to get changes (NERF!!!!!).

2) people like you are going to claim one thing and people opposite you will claim the other thing. and only in the middle will the true benefit be found and not with one side or the other "WINNING"

3) people like you are the entitled that think they can make others act the way they want not the way each person wants (the survivor rule book for killers etc). and it doesn't matter if you're a killer main or a survivor main! both are acting childishly here.

4) MORI's and KEY's should have been dealt with at the exact same time because the appearance of favoritism is causing strife and this is what is going to cause the game the worse damage is the fact that the killer mains right now are hit hard, with buffs to survivors and even a killer perk being made into a pro-survivor perk (hoarder) because there is no stopping keys from being found in those EXTRA chests and only the one in the basement is protected by alerting the killer that it's being looted the other TWO chests are someone on the grounds with no extra restrictions on them. This is what is fueling this killers are being screwed over, another is from this patch being that victor can only lock someone in the locker for 10 seconds and it takes 2-3 seconds to move back and be able to move as charlotte again and 7-8 seconds later victor gets out of the way and the survivor now can leave the locker BUT!!!!!! the killer doesn't see them leave or where they are going!

Now this is why people are saying this is proof the devs are survivor sided but here is more proof: originally moris could happen no matter what hook state you were on, this got changed and back then they said they'd change keys but they haven't changed them YET. originally there was no hatch but soon after game launch they put it in, requiring two gens to be completed before the hatch was visible (still in game but did make a small concession to the killers by changing the time the hatch appeared to require one more generator completed before the hatch would reveal itself. but still did not address the key issue after mori change. now the killers are being "PROMISED" a key alteration "SOON" with no time limit and thus they are upset as they feel it'll be another 3-4 years before this happens (not the midchapter patch as someone on here said it would be without any idea otherwise).

Honestly this is showing more and more survivor side bias because of the fact the community talked about both needing a change at the same exact time, the community equated the two so they should have been changed at the same time to prevent from one side poking their fingers into their ears,sticking out their tongues out and waggaling their hands saying "NAH NAH NAH NAH" you got your change first. which is why people are upset, most are not the ######### survivor or killer that is saying that mori's aren't the problem but keys are or keys aren't the problem mori's are, it's the people in the middle that is upset at this point as well i know many survivor friends that are now concerned for longer queue times (I am as well) because a new tome level comes out and if i'm waiting 10-15 minutes a match i might as well not play why spend 10-15 minutes in a match that lasts 1/3 to 1/2 that time?

here is an example: gen speeds 80 seconds one man gen, get two people on a gen it's even faster. but lets keep two gens being worked by one survivor each, and the other two are farting off or searching chests, doing bones etc. within 2 minutes if the killer is not lucky they will have get this..... 2 gens down and 3 to go before the match is over. same thing again now say we're down by one survivor (dc or tried to escape and didn't struggle) you can have one person keep the killer busy while 2 more gens are done in 80 seconds so that's 160 seconds which is 2.8 minutes into the game. now you're down to three gens on the map and 3 people still as survivors. moris now are a non-issue to those survivors they'll sac one person and get out, OR they'll get the hatch open with the key they brought in because they have 4 gens done and one survivor gone so the hatch is visible. so that's basically 4-5 minutes for the match. as survivor that is crap i don't have fun, but i'll do it to get the 7K survival points (including the hatch escape) oh yea.... the killer? now loosing rank thanks to the survivors and their key. they spent 5K to 7K for the mori and could never use it because they were unable to get enough hooks.

KEYS ARE A PROBLEM, and they are not being treated the same thus survivors are not being treated the same (better) than mori's and killers even if it's for one week, it shows a short sighted view to fix things and mend the rift that has been widening. I am seeing several dbd streamers slow down their dbd streams and put up WOW or other games because of stuff like this. in a day we get cyberpunk2077 and you think you're going to keep people that feel disenfranchised playing the game? i'll be honest i myself haven't played all that much lately because my friends aren't playing it like they used to and i don't blame them what so ever. STOP THE PETTY BICKERING ABOUT THIS TOPIC! SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE, WITH ONE MIND AND TELL THE DEVS TO TREAT EACH SIDE EQUAL IF YOU WANT TO YELL ABOUT SOMETHING DO SO WHERE IT'LL DO THE MOST GOOD! but honestly stop yelling at each other and calling each other toxic and asking if i was toxic, (if you have to ASK 95% of the time you were being toxic and yes that was an exaggeration) but really you know if it is or isn't. play the game and have fun, stop saying your fun is more important and play by the rules damn it!

OMG.

I just read the first paragraph and you are SO FAR off the mark it made it hard to read everything else. So if any of the rest was relevant, feel free to post it again.

Release date DBD: 14 June 2016

Nearly 4 years, so when I see 'MORI'S and KEYS' in caps and you've FAILED to even mention the map reworks (unless it's lower caps), that clearly have benefitted killers. I'm just rolling my eyes at you. Because if you can't accurately report recent changes, why do I care what you think across the games lifespan.

Also you FAIL to distinguish between soloQ and SWF. IF (conditional) I am a survivor main, then that context makes it different again.

Seriously, just try again.

Did you try that to see if it works? Nah

problem is this yes very much so but it is also the apperance that the devs are siding with one group or the other, things that they are doing should show impartiality to keep their player base happy, they are only seemingly doing things to keep survivors happy and that appearance is the problem.

again most who are claiming survivor bias here are not talking about the actual change as most feel it was needed but the fact that they release that when survivors still have keys that have been unmolested for years despite their promise back then to address keys, is what people are really upset about.

then you need to learn to read critically.

1) I was speaking about the topic at hand and how this is an appearance of bias not specific bias

2) I was talking about how people attack each other here instead of banding together to get what needs to be done for the game.

3) I did say from the wording of your post you seemed to be a survivor main

4) map re-works actually changed many positive changes implimented into conditional positive if you know what to do but by the time you learn what you should do people loose their want to play that side and this has nothing to do with the appearance of bias with the topic of keys and moris.

5) soloq and swf have nothing to do with keys and moris appearance of survivor sided bias beyond the fact that swf's tend to bring maps and a key to work together as well as the killer bringing a mori to take care of the swf issue. again i was not talking about that

6) you just proved my point when I was pushing a more balanced look at things and why there is such an outpouring of outrage over the issue and people think now the majority of those upset are outraged at the actual change when most like it (there are some that don't like it) but they feel that it should have been put in when the key nerf is put in to balance the equation.

I have like 80 of them sitting around on my blight now, so now I actually don't feel too bad for using them for fun now

I 100% agree with you on the blood web clutter. It is an issue for both survivors and killers (the extra BP killers get notwithstanding). The huge number of add-ons for both are borderline useless (some for killers are actually detriments), and the grind to get through bloodwebs for something worth having can be overwhelming. I've gone through 5-6 bloodwebs as The Pig and not seen a single Combat Straps -- a common -- while getting stuck with a number of terrible add-ons I'll never use under any circumstance.

I will completely disagree respectfully with you on the Franklin's/lobby dodge comment though. Frankiin's doesn't warrant a perk slot against Red Rank survivors, and lobby dodging to avert a game mechanic means that there's a problem with the game mechanic. Lobby dodging should never have to be a "counter" to something in the game (much like the sign that the Mori was overpowered was the number of disconnects you'd see in the loading screen if a killer brought one).

Cool...

Then Keys would just be used to sandbag by leaving, even when they’re team really needs them. Personally I think Keys need a more comprehensive rework, not just a number change.

I was. Because i started playing killer only to learn about their weakness. But the thing is, a not neglectable number of survivors are ######### carried by bad matchmaking and/or swf, trying to make your game as unfun as they can. I know you dont belive they exist in not marginal numbers, but maybe you are just lucky or play in a different region. I encountered them regularly when i played killer for challanges or dailys.

So yes, i started using moris all the time to handle the bad matchmaking pairing me against much higher skilled players and swf. And since i dont knew who were an swf beforehand, i used them all the time.

Now, i just stop playing killer till the game is fairly balanced (which i dont expect to happen) and play survivor exclusivly again. And if i want a break from survivors, i just play something else.

In fact, i play this game less and less, and while i got all the dlc´s (except the saw one) and a few outfits, i won´t spent any more money on this game. It might change if they fix the matchmaking, but i honestly don´t think they have a clue how to do that. I believe its next to impossible to balance around both swf and solo survivor while keeping the core of the game intact. They can buff solo survivor to swf level informationwise, but that does not make other solos reliable, and it will destroy a core element of the game i actually like about it.