Gen Speeds

I think a lot of people feel this way. I'm satisfied with a 2K when I play killer. 😄

Im so glad someone finally mentioned the tool boxes because in recent weeks I've really noticed a downturn with them. The colours make next to no difference anymore and all of them do about 20% there abouts max unless you have streetwise at purple rank.

Just like Killer makes mistake and have 1-2 hook when 5 Gen gone. Survivors happen to have many match that 1 death at 4 Gen left. Except Killer actually have chance when losing (End game perk, EGC camping, Survivors make mistake by being too Altruism..). On survivor side, they have zero chance to turn the tide.

As long as Killers have option to shorten the task time they have to work (tunneling), Survivors should have the same option (rush gen and ignore totem, even if Noed exist)

Tunnel/Camp & Gen rush are game problems, which being fixed by DS,BT,DH on survivor side, as Gen slow down perk on killer side.

I want the game to have 2nd objectives to have the game more fun, but its not going to happens.

Remember people said the game is going to have Early game collapse, where Survivors have to do something before Gen, because a Gen done when Killer trying to find the first survivor? And they introduced Lethal pursuit

It could have something to do with old Ruin/Undying being absolutely broken and crashing survive rates. Possibly.

Also, calling current Undying a meme perk. Lol.

I feel like those are the survivor equivalent of 4k killers though.

I've lost count of how many times I've said this recently but secondary objectives like in Fri 13th would actually really enhance the game for me.

I get bored of finding things like green keys and maps that are hardly ever useful in game without add ons. They could be replaced with having to find parts for gens etc.

Lets analyze what you said:

• Undying doesn´t need to survive more than 60 seconds. Thats a useless perk for me. Why? Because the killer spend a perkslot on this "protection". Which vanishes and doesn´t even expose survivors like Haunted Grounds does. As a matter of fact, Haunted Grounds is a stronger gen protection perk than the new Undying. Now, did we see a lot of killers that used Haunted Grounds to protect their other totems? The answer is no. Because no one ever complained about the Haunted Ruin combo.
• Now regarding Undying Ruin. Survivors didn´t had to cleanse all 5 totems. They could, but they certainly didn´t had to. Why? Because Ruin on itself has absolutely no effect on a gen that is being worked on. To make Ruin do anything, the killer needed to patrol gens and switch targets. Aka the killer wasn´t tunneling or camping. <--- supposedly a good thing for survivors.
• But survivors didn´t like that the killer was chasing them away from the gens. Almost like they didn´t care that the killer wasn´t camping anymore. So instead of ruining the game for a survivor who got camped. The killer "ruined" the game for survivors that tried to do gens by chasing them. Doing gens is one of the most boring aspects of the game. Thats why prolonging the gen times would be the wrong step. No one wants to hug a single gen for 2 minutes. Now chases, chases on the other hand are the fun part of the game. But a killer who constantly chased survivors away from the boring gens was disliked?
• This sounds like survivors don´t know what they want. They want the killers to stay away from the hook, while also staying away from the gens. They want the killer to avoid going for the same survivor, while he also shouldn´t switch targets to get them off the gens. They don´t want to do gens only, while they also aren´t happen when they can do totems or chases. Weird, isn´t it?

Ah, key words: Right hands. Not everyone is Otzdarva when it comes to playing those 3

It isn't the counter. And it's very easily illustrated with the following:

If ANY totem is left standing when the fifth gen pops, NOED activates without any deduction to its power. Therefor, at absolute best, 80% of totem cleanses do not do anything to deter NOED.

That is of course a very crass way of looking at it, but it's no less crass than 'do bones'.

@GoodBoyKaru actually commented on how 'doing bones' against NOED usually fares in this thread here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457495

He describes another common issue, which is finding the four totems that are easy to find and thereby forcing NOED to sink into the one totem that ISN'T easy to find. Which makes 'doing bones' not just ineffective, it makes it downright invert on itself and empower NOED instead.

He also points out that without comms, survivors struggle to find all five totems as a team and risk spending too much time on it, as some survivors might still be looking for a totem that has already been cleansed in an area that has already been swept. While this, in and of itself, isn't an argument against 'do bones', there's one little condition under which it -does- become an argument against 'doing bones'.

Imagine wasting all that time to get totem 5, and then the killer -doesn't have NOED-.

Because then NOED is the strongest slowdown perk in the game by far, and without even being equipped.

Trust me, I tried 'doing bones'. And in all the times I did, I managed to kill a NOED once. But I have killed NOED three times by NOT cleansing totems, and instead just memorising their spots and revisiting them later. Sometimes by accident, but one very memorable instance was where I was working on gen 5, saw the dull totem and considered for a second whether I should cleanse it in case of NOED. I actively made the decision NOT to cleanse it just in case it lured in NOED, and it lit up as soon as my gen was done.

You do FAR better against NOED by not cleansing totems.

Thank you for listening to my TED talk.

Yes, but that is not what the 'do bones' meme means.

1) In the case that HG gets found first, survivors still see 2 glowing totems. I guarantee you, that someone will cleanse that totem. Which will expose survivors and possibly give hooks. While Undying is simply gone. Sure, it protects that other perks. But totem spawn aren´t great to begin with. With totems spawning on top of a hill, next to gens or right in front of the exit gates. So even when Undying protects Ruin, it won´t survive much longer. Currently i often hear 2 thunderstrucks with a time difference of 30 seconds or less. When the killer uses this obsolete combo.

2) You make this sound like survivors aren´t a team of 4. Its not necessary that the hooked survivor goes back to that gen, when other survivors can go there. Survivors have several ways of communicating the position of a (progressed) gen. Oh and with the exception of Devour Hope, there is not a single Hex perk that i would consider "damn powerful".

3) During the 5th anniversary surprisingly many survivors switched to killer, because they thought (wrongly) that killers earn more bloodpoints. The result was killer queues between 2 and 5 minutes during primetime. The day after the whole event ended, killer queues became instant and survivors had queues between 2 and 5 minutes during primetime. This amount of time isn´t exactly what i would call a shortage. I remember a time a few years ago, where survivors had queues of up to 45 minutes. THAT was a shortage.

Killers have a additional objective to their 12 hooks, while 4 survivors collectivly have 5 gens and nothing else to do?

4) I won´t comment on other forum users.

5) I play without DS and do fine. Your point is?

6) nevermind then

7) camping has been around for 5 years. Survivors got several ways to deal with camping. A good group can unhook with BT, body block and if everything fails the survivor usually has DS or a flashlight. Those tools are in fact so strong, that survivors started to weaponize them and use them outside of actual camping situations. A survivor who gets unhooked with BT, will DH into the killer to avoid that his savior gets downed. A freshly unhooked survivor in front of a opened exit gate is unstoppable, when he has DS. Killer gets punished here for not tunneling DS out earlier. Flashlights are a scourge of their own. We had the Howling Grounds event, where flashlights got "fixed" and turned into unavoidable torches. There wasn´t a single match where survivors wouldn´t bring the weaponized flashlights.

Another obligatory objective wouldn´t kill the game. It wouldn´t suddenly turn all killers into campers and it certainly wouldn´t ruin the survivors fun. All they have to do is give survivors a meaningful objective thats different from what we have now. Like, for example, gas cans that have to be refilled and used on gens. They could become a whole new item (like toolboxes). The gas cans wouldn´t be required for all gens, but for the strategic gens. So survivors would have to make the choice if they ignore those gens and only do the normal ones, but exposing themselves with less favorable positions. Or doing the gas can objective and finish the strategic gens first, which makes the lategame easier.

1) Doesn´t change the fact that you get more milage out of HG than Undying. Sure, there is a 33% chance that Undying protects better than HG. But when its gone, its gone and there are no downsides for survivors. Unlike HG, where survivors get exposed. So again, did you see HG as a meta protection perk before Undying? Because i didn´t. People still using Undying after its hard nerf is the killers equivalent of using SC. Once it was glorious, but now its hurting the team when you SC in the corner of the map. But some people don´t want to change their loadout, call it force of habbit.

2) Since the release of the RE chapter, Blast Mine has been a very prominent perk. Because for one it hurts the killer and also shows other survivors where a worked on gen is. Now with the Ruin regression, survivors don´t need to be in a voice chat to see that glowing gen. At least for me it works like a charm. So again, Ruin isn´t a threat against decent survivors. Just ignore it and cleanse it if you find it. But the time you waste actively searching for it, is better employed hugging gens. Ruin was always just a bandaid for gens. It being among the most picked perks is explained by the existence of this thread. Killers struggle with gens and take everything in a desperate attempt to slow gens down. Its not uncommon to see killers use Corrupted, Ruin and Pop at the same time. 3 perks that don´t synergize at all. But are taken with the mindset of "when this fails, i have this, and when this also fails i still have that". Killers should not feel forced to take 3 gen slowdown perks. That isn´t fun.

3) Don´t be ridiculous. Survivors and killers earn roughly the same amount of bloodpoints. More often than not i earn more points than the killer. I could spam you with screenshots where the killer always earned less than at least half of the survivors. Sure, you will earn less, when you do nothing but gens during the whole match. Because that category caps at 8k. So again, survivors earning less points is plain wrong.

4) This could be identified as naming and shaming. So there is a good reason to not talk about other forum members.

5) I can´t remember the last time i had actually time to 12 hook survivors without hooking the same survivors in a row. Maybe you are playing against really, really bad survivors. Don´t know. At least in my region, survivors tend to hug gens when they are not being chased by the killer. Its not uncommon that a unhooked survivor instantly goes for a gen to finish it with the rescuer before healing up. Which means that the healing nerf, which was aimed at passivly slowdown gens, failed as a whole.

6) -

7) You never actually seen this? Ok... survivor A is hooked, survivor B comes for the rescue, but gets injured near the hook. Survivor A gets unhooked and the BT timer starts. Now the killer would attempt to down survivor B for the hook trade, but survivor A uses DH to phase through survivor B and receives the hit instead. Since survivor A is protected by BT, they both get a decent distance before the killer can connect another hit. Its usually enough time to get to the exit gate or a pallet.

8) The survivor meta perks haven´t changed in 4 years. DS, Unbreakable, DH, SC, BT and SB have been the most used survivor perks on all platforms 4 years ago and they still haven´t moved from there.

Botany = only useful in a serious healing build. But then again, Autodidact would be better. Or We´ll make it.

Prove Thyself = is okayish but you max out the bonus points to fast 1 1/2 gen is all it takes. Oh and since bloodpoints are not bound to emblems you will end up doing gens after hitting the limit, just for the emblems.

Desperate = you truly have to be to use this perk. I don´t think i´ve seen this perk in the last 6 months.

Q&Q = is good for losing the killer. But the current meta aims at running in circles and drop the pallet early. Because there are simply way to many pallets. So no need for stealth.

FTP = only useful for SWF. Outside of it, its a death sentence. Just like Mettle of Man.

Inner Strength = is for totem hunters. Here we are talking about slowing gens down with Ruin and you recommend a totem hunter perk...

The fact that BT and DS are meta is because they are so powerful. Survivors rush gens and even when they get hooked once the gates are powered, the BT + DS combo will guarantee them the escape. At least when the killer didn´t tunnel someone early out to slowdown the gens.

You see, the problem with those kill rates is, that there are many factors that alter the kill rates. Things like Rainbow matches, survivors don´t liking the match/killer and suiciding or disconnecting, SWF, etc. The devs always warn about drawing false conclusions on their data. Because they know that there are a lot of variables that alter the data.

When they introduced the hook counter, i thought its a great way to scan their data and see how many hooks the killer gets before all gens are completed. Thus identifying gen speed/kill speed issues. But i don´t know if they actually look at the data or just at the end counter.

Killer not being fun comes from the stress levels of playing against the clock. Killer is on a hard timer and losing 3 gens right at the start will demoralize every killer. Devs said, that we should forget about those external gens, that its normal to lose those fast. What they don´t mention is, that smart survivors do center gens first. Which makes a 3 gen (what i suppose is what the devs want killers to do) impossible. All the things that are supposed to slowdown the gens like failing skill checks, are more aimed at new players. But experienced players don´t even have a problem with Huntress Lullabys silent skill checks or Overcharge. Which is a problem, because those perks are aimed at slowing gens down but end up being useless.

I like this discussion a lot, but we are slighly off topic. Unless OP has no problem with this discussion. Otherwise we should continue this in a new thread. Mark me up if you want to start a new thread.

Not always no. I've been able to win against a team of obvious red ranks, and so have others as well. Streamers like Otz are a great example of how this game isn't that unbalanced anymore.

It's certainly not balanced perfectly, and it's honestly crazy that maps like Cowshed even still exist, despite getting two major updates. But the game's balance has improved a lot as well. It's decent I would argue.

run ruin, udying, tinkerer & pop

can't afford to not run these perks with most killers on high lvl play

Of course not. But survivors being able to run a very experienced killer for that amount of time, shows how bad pallet placement is and THIS is an indication of the balance.

No, it isn’t. He was playing pure M1 Trapper against very experienced survivors on one of the most survivor-sided maps in the game in conditions that do not occur in a normal match, ever. It was purely for entertainment value and says as much about balance as his multiple 50 win streak videos: nothing.

Which video was that? And you do realise even an Otzdarva needs to be able to lose once and a while? If he'd win every game, the game would be seriously killer sided.

Also, which killer was he using, and on what map was he playing?

The problem with slowing down gens is all the slow down perks. This is why they are in the game if you don’t want gens to fly.