If SBMM is going to be this sweaty show whos in swfs
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Reveal the swfs and solos at the end of the match on the scoreboard..
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Majority of players are solo
I don't know what teams you're facing. But when I play solo half of my teammates seem to lack common sense. Anyway it's normal to remember the loses. Because I'm pretty sure you win more of your matches than you lose.
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Yeah a friend of mine had faced her just before you had her. We went to see if she was live and low and behold I saw you and your friends load into her next lobby. I faced that streamer before too. Twice. I did about as well as you guys did. Miserable matches.
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Why do you care about it? its just a videogame. Sounds like you're butthurt because I'm making sense and you dont like it so you have to act like you're above the conversation. Thats proven by you not understanding what im even talking about in the original post. I'm not even advocating for them to "punish people for playing with their friends" Which phrasing it like that is loading the argument about swf to be "not a big deal".
Who is biased? I think you are but only against this concept. Most likely because you play in swfs. I'm biased against swf yes. I play solo q and killer. Swf use outside coms to play this game giving them an unfair advantage over solo q and killer. What in any way is that the same as seeing what killer you are facing. Thats a built in aspect of the game. Two completely different things.
How about the survivors being able to switch last second to a key? they lock what killer you are why not lock survivor items? See how dumb that is? thats what aboutisms. Its the same as you suggesting the survivors see what killer they face.It has nothing to do with what is being said
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Its not about winning or losing. its about knowing if my match was fair or not. If i go against a solo team and they beat me I'd be impressed and not feel cheated
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You are right and most SWF's are not super good but just being SWF is an advantage you know who you are playing with and like you said you try to make cohesive builds, that's a huge advantage over if you were 3 solos cause you'd all prioritize self preservation in most situations. On killer side, it's impossible to tell who's good or not until you're facing them so it's always a safer solution to just dodge the lobby and prevent possible frustration.
Honestly the Simple Solution is to just make a casual playlist and have SWF as an option there, that way there's no harm towards everyone. It's casual doesn't matter if it's solos or SWF, it's casual so it doesn't matter if you kill everyone or none... As long as they made the ranked mode worth playing they could sustain both playlists. Casual people can just play casual and Comp people can play ranked when they choose to and then relax on casual. The biggest problem would be people who try hard on casual playlist.
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Gee this is the only game were paying with ones friends is an issue 🤣
Anyway it's not cheating sorry... Playing with your friends is a feature of the game. Until they say it's cheating, then I will believe you.
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I said felt cheated not that they are cheating. They use outside coms, which is not a feature of the game, to give them an unfair advantage over killer and solo q survivor. It is unreal how many times i have to say this. I'm not advocating for them to do anything but let us know that we are facing it.
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She's a good killer. She actually got quite a good map because of how loud the footsteps are. It's just facing a Spirit where you can't tell when she's using her power or not lol
I'm not sure if the game I first mentioned was her but if it was then we nearly faced her 4 times last night lol in a 2 man swf game a survivor dc'ed in the loading screen before we faced her. Also after the match you saw we got her again in the next lobby lol mate wanted to dodge so we did.
From what I hear she's a tournament killer? I have no idea exactly so please let me know. Guess we both know roughly what our MMR ratings are lol
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I care about it because it's a game I've dedicated a lot of my time to. I want it to better to its audience, but in my opinion, that means more effort put into the actual game and optimization. I don't give a single ######### about balance. I'm not butthurt at all, actually. Like I already said, I am just genuinely confused.
In your original post, you say
"Show whos in swfs so im not constantly facing them."
So you want killers to be able to see who's in a survive with friends so you, and other players, can avoid them. This would punish them for using a feature that is in the game. Your original post is all about complaining about SWF and the fact that you have to play against them because a good portion of them are sweaty. And no, they aren't different. You're asking to see SWF which is a 'built in aspect' of the game. You can literally invite people from the Survivor lobby. SWF is just as built-in as Killers are.
I don't play in SWF, and the very rare times I do it's with one single friend, and we play it only to ######### around. I play Killer 65% of the time, and the other 35% is Solo queue.
I think they should lock Survivor items past a certain threshold, but that isn't at all involved in the conversation.
You're asking to be able to avoid survivor groups you don't want to play against.
I'm saying that if that happens, the inverse also has to happen- Survivors don't have to go against Killer's they don't want to. Both are terrible ideas.
Is there a portion of SWF's who break the game? Yes. Does that mean we punish everybody that uses the system? No. That's foolish.
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Apparently that particular streamer was caught cheating in those tournaments. Don't know the specifics but that's what I've seen on twitter from multiple reputable sources. So there you go.
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It doesn't matter. If you have high MMR, you're going to get SWFs more often or god-tier solo players. Just eat the match.
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Yea I was told that as well by my mate. Shown me a picture today in which someone found out she was banned for "third party cheats".
I found it weird that apparently she didn't show her pov in tournaments. I didn't watch back our game because I don't believe we lost by that reason.
Shame people with a following will do that.
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Coms on swf is not built in the game. stretch res is not built into this game. It is not a punishment to wait longer and theres no reason that behavior can't test this. They tested sbmm for the past year
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eat 4 loss's in a row? and the last was the worst swf. nah thats dumb. bad matchmaking. I should be able to choose not to go against these tryhards every match
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I never said anything about comms or stretched res.
And yes, SWF's not getting to play the game because they dared to play with their friends is a punishment.
BHVR has no reason to test it if they don't view it as a problem. Which, judging by the fact that it's never been changed, they don't.
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We dont know what the devs think. why would you assume you do? I am purposing a simple change. We don't know that this change will increase swf que times into oblivion theres no proof for it. So test it
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Because it's been five years, and SWF hasn't gotten any 'nerfs'? In fact, they literally made it easier to invite people to your own lobby? And they have literal SWF voice channels in their official Discord server? Why would they embrace it so much if they viewed it as a problem?
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first off it is without a doubt an issue and they should do something about the imbalance of it. However I'm not even suggesting they "nerf" it. I just want to see whos in it. Optimistic me wants to think that the devs are afraid to do anything to it or its difficult to do anything to it. Thats why its taken so long. The skill gap difference between solo q and a swf is massive and time has made that worse.
How about you dont shame others for their interests and maybe I wouldnt be so abrasive in a conversation about that interest from the start.
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Of course it has advantages. But the point I am making, and I think many others have made the same (or similar) is that being in a SWF team doesn't mean we're unbeatable or amazing. Not everyone who is in a group is super good at the game. We do play to have fun, and don't rage or get mad when we lose, and don't use certain items. No flashlights, no keys. But we do play with the spirit of the game and do our best to complete objectives and help each other. And yes, being in a group conveys advantages we wouldn't have otherwise. But honestly, it just puts us on par with average-to-good killers.
Believe me, I have been a killer against full SWF groups where everyone had a flashlight or key with purple or pink add-ons, and they all had DS and Die Hard. It's absolutely no fun playing against that. But I don't get the sense that that's the majority of SWF groups that are encountered. I get the sense most of them are closer to me and my friends.
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I never shamed you for your interests, I have literally no idea what you're talking about. Unless your talking about my confusion for why you care so much, in which case it was never meant to come across as shaming. We literally play the same game, my dude.
It doesn't matter what you think, it doesn't matter what I think- It doesn't matter what anyone but BHVR thinks. Since they haven't changed SWF, even a little in the five years since they were added, I doubt they ever will. Especially at the glacial pace they balance at. And yes, it's incredibly difficult to do anything to SWF because for every sweaty, no fun SWF there are probably four or five SWF teams that don't play the game enough to be sweaty. And before you ask why I make that kind of assumption-
Only 16% of people who have ever owned the game on Steam reached rank 10. Most people play this game casually. This doesn't even involve console. It isn't fair to simply treat those people as if they belong with the sweaty, unfun SWF group. Does getting a sweaty SWF suck? Yes, 100%. Will it ever get changed? Probably not. It's clear we aren't going to agree on this, so I'll probably just stop now. If I came across as rude, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to- When I get into arguments it turns off the part of my brain that's meant to be polite.
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You're putting words in my mouth. I never said ######### you to casual swfs. If i ever swf its with my friends who dont like to play the game anymore because its a sweatfest. So they suck and we play to have fun. There is no proof that que times will be that long if killers can see swfs, however there is also no evidence showing that they wont be. Thats why i suggested a minimum of testing it. They tested SBMM for a year surely they can test this. Someone else also stated something to the effect of lobby dodgeing penalties and i think that would be a smart way to lower the mmr of killers who dont want to be placed so high.
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NGL this is probably the most premade SWF's I've ever faced in this game. And I dunno if I'm just getting the same people over and over again....but its weird as [BAD WORD]. Before SBMM I would maybe get like 1 out of 4 matches as an SWF. Post SBMM every other match is a god damn show. Its crazy cause I've never been one to sweat. I don't like doing it. In fact I'm used to giving people hatches that I notice are actually performing. But these matches its just the same like....12 [BAD WORD] people gen rushing and running straight to a god pallet.
Also BHVR you need to fix your description of SBMM cause it doesn't give you different matchups based on which killer you're playing. I'm an absolutely horrid nurse, the babiest of the babies, and it still put me in the same lobbies I was in on my pig......
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
I mean people know this. But it doesn't make their stance right. Its basically them saying "We're not going to balance this game or any aspect of it even though we know it breaks the core gameplay loop" That right there should be enough to quit. But people don't because they've inhaled dubious amounts of Copium to think that one day they will.....
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In your original post you came off as condensing and trolly. Which immisiately makes me want to dismiss what you are saying because theres a lot of trolls on these forums.No big deal its hard to tell over text how people are trying to come across.
I dont think that statistic takes into account most dedicated survivor players. Theres a bunch of games where half of the poeple dont get past the tutorial. That also doesnt take into account killer mains or people who tried it and then quit.
The swfs I am referring to are inevitably going to be in the high mmr. Those "playing for fun swfs" are still swfs and just displaying whos in one or not will hardly impact their game. I will only dodge swfs if i have played against a handfull of sweaty teams. Otherwise i will play against them. So the people on the lower end of the spectrum will se more killers because there will be more killers there. If those sweaty swfs want to play like that then they can wait a bit for a killer who is equally as sweaty. I see no issue with this logic
Whether or not behavior does something about it or not is a whole different thing, but if we dont speak up then they wont know we have issues with the game. Which i think is what part of these forums are for.
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It isn't just a portion man, yall keep inhaling this copium like everything is fine....everybody knows damn well what kind of information an SWF gives. And everybody knows how powerful that information is, and everybody knows what parts of the game you can break with said information. That same information is so powerful it comes in the form of perks that have cooldowns and requirements. With SWF you don't have a cooldown, and said information IS INFINITE!!!!!!
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Okay, fine. You never LITERALLY said those words. But let's take a look at a few things you have said. Your original post has been HEAVILY edited since you first made it, but it still says -
"Show whos in swfs so im not constantly facing them."
How would simply SHOWING you ensure that you don't constantly face them? Oh wait, it wouldn't. The only way you would be able to ensure you're not constantly facing them after being shown they're there...would be to dodge them. You also said -
"I think they can suffer to wait until they find a killer that wants to deal with it."
Once again, implying that you would REALLY just like to dodge SWF teams. Let someone else deal with it. And if they constantly get dodged because everyone just ASSUMES every single SWF is a super competitive, amazing tryhard team? Even if they're just filthy casuals? Your opinion = screw 'em. They can wait. You also said -
"I should be able to choose not to go against these tryhards every match"
Once again, showing your real motivation for wanting to be able to see SWF groups in the lobby.
Here's a thought - even IF you were shown SWF groups in the lobby, how would you, or anyone, know how good they are? You wouldn't.
So what would you do? Based on your comments here, most of the time you'd dodge.
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A lot of killer mains think they are so good they deserve to 4k every match and that when they don't, the game was somehow unfair to them. They don't realize that if MMR is working properly, and they are one of the best killer mains, all they can really hope for is a 2k on average - ie a draw.
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Im not asking to win every match. Just to know if im facing a swf or not. Nor am i claiming to be one of the best killer mains. who are you talking to?
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In my coments on here if you actually read them. I have also stated that i would only dodge if ive been facing consistent sweaty swfs. Whats with the attack on my character here? over seeing whos in swf? hmm You are trying to put words in my mouth.
I've already explained to someone else that the wait times for sweaty high mmr swfs will be different then casual swfs because their mmr will be lower.
Also I have to ask whats more fair? Trying to take into account n unbalanced feature of the game that is obviously being abused by these teams or waiting an extra 5 min? I would argue that if you are willing to give yourself an advantage over other players then you can wait longer. That is more fair, but i still dont think that the wait times would be that bad nor would i want them to be.
Like I said there is nothing wrong with testing this. They've already tested mmr for a year.
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I'm at 16 solo escapes in a row. The top percentile of survivors are going to look like Seal Team SWF regardless of party composition. There are more top percentile survivors online than top killers at any given moment. Just how player distribution works. SBMM is going to struggle with matchmaking at the top and widen the search.
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Even more reason to show killers whos in swf or not. If i lost to a solo q team then i wouldnt feel as cheated
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Fair? Is it fair for us consolers to go against things like video filters, sound card settings, stretch res, can't use m&k, anything above 30fps, etc? Or wait half an hour or more with Crossplay off? We can dodge our teammates, but not the killer.
What's cheating and what isn't?
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I did read your comments. I literally quoted you. And it looks more to me like you revised your stance a bit after getting some pushback. In other words, you moved the goalposts from 'I want to see SWF groups so I can avoid them' to 'I just want to see them so I can sometimes maybe avoid them' to 'I just want to see them so I can know if I lost fairly or not.' None of those are direct quotes - just summations of your shifting positions.
You still use language like "cheated" to describe losing to a SWF team. How is using a built-in game mechanic cheating? And no, don't bring up comms. I can say with utmost confidence that the developers knew people in groups would be using comms when they made this game. Voice comms is not a new, revolutionary thing that came about after the development cycle of this game began. It was expected and planned for all along. In other words, the devs don't consider the use of comms cheating. Nor do they consider playing with a group cheating. So why do you?
Sure, let's test your idea. I'm fine with it being on the test server. And while we're testing that, let's also lock killers out of queue every time they dodge a lobby. Because knocking down their MMR for leaving (which is what you suggested) isn't really a penalty. That's just giving killers who want to seal club an imminently abuse-able mechanic to do so.
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Nah, my MMR is high enough that I get these teams all the time after MMR started. There's a much smaller pool of killers to go against these groups now, so the frequency will go up. I don't really mind this that much but it does get tiring to have to try my best every match. I understand I could just not try hard and lower my MMR but I want to go against really good teams as well. Just not constantly.
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no, you are paraphrashing and all of those quotes are still my opinion. So I've moved no goal post only further clarified my position. Also if i were to get other peoples opinions or "pushback" I dont change my opinon to strengthen my stance. Unlike a lot of swf defenders on here. If I were presented with something I overlooked or new info I would revaluate my position. Thats called a growing from a productive discussion. There has been nothing said that has changed my position yet but there have been things said that made me think about things in a different light. Once again you are just putting words in my mouth. This is the issue with this community its all my side vs your side theres no productive talk on here just a bunch of people trying to defend their tribe. Not specifically talking about you but there are a lot of people that are just trying to push things and not try to have productive conversations.
I never said that it was cheating i said i felt cheated. Theres a difference there. I do not care if you or the devs consider coms cheating. It is a massive advantage for those swfs, and if the game is ever going to see some sort of balance it should be addressed. At least in some way, but thats nopt what this post is about.
All I want is a test. I don't see the big deal in that. I can see how it could be abused to maybe smurf, so how would you prevent that?
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Thats just what aboutisms. Completely different topic and should be addressed on its own separate form this topic
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I legit did a single time in almost 3k hours, but unfortunately I don't remember the team name. I was Oni and got carried by Top Knot (sue me), but even then I just barely won. It was a really fun game all around.
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if it's the spirit I think it is she's no longer a tournament player because she got banned as she was the only player that wouldn't prove she wasn't cheating, she would never let others watch her discord, just another cheater, the one who used to brag about her expensive headset on steam? lmao
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Only if it shows when its a killer with all slowgen perks.
Only a SWF can climb MMR so there is no way to avoid them if you are a killer main. Killers are way too OP.
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Take your troll crap somewhere else lol
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I'm serious. Killers are OP, I've played enough solo to know. Survivors need a buff. Add in more pallets if it is solo q, something to make it more bearable. Less gen repair time.
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I already told you. Don't punish killers who dodge lobbies by lowering their MMR. Punish them by locking them out of matchmaking for a time similar to how someone quits/disconnects in the middle of a match.
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has anyone actually considered that DBD is a party game....... that is asymmetrical. it's meant to be a randomized game to prevent you from getting bored.
you will always have outliers that make the game seem "unbalanced" or sweaty, but that's just how it is.
the point of SWF was to be able to play with your friends, idk where people got this notion that it's purposefully meant to ruin a killer's day. trying to balance something that has an extreme amount of variables (casual players, competitive players, people who understand fundamentals, people who don't, people having different reaction times, people who are sharp on their controls, etc.), let alone with a game that has a bunch of variables (RNG, spawn systems, map tiles, offerings, killer perks and powers, etc.) is unorthodox. showing who's in a party and who isn't simply because skill-based matchmaking hasn't gotten a chance to regulate itself is completely unnecessary.
SBMM has only been out for maybe a week. it takes about a month for it to put players where it needs to be. making changes to parties, exposing them, etc. won't make matchmaking's algorithm resolve itself any faster.
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You lay it on to thick sometimes try to be more subtle. You're not fooling anyone with this haha
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I dont think you are completely wrong but I think swf has more of an impact in high ranking games then you are letting on. Which is not fun for anyone except said swf. Just because its nature itself is unorthodox doesnt mean we shouldnt be trying to make it better
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i only partially agree with you with SWF having an impact on high ranking games, due to only the fact that it requires a killer to play differently. the purpose is still there all across the board, however; a party of individuals working together to play against a killer. i do not deny that comms exist, nor do i deny that information sharing exists, though it needs to be recognized that factors like this have always existed in games that allow individuals to band together.
i digress; your opening post, from my understanding, puts the reason of "games being sweaty" in with SWF and SBMM. i just wanted to outline the reasons as to why you cannot balance SWF and why you shouldn't attempt to solely just because of SBMM trying to do its job after release. ^^
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Yeah I’m a console nurse going back to back against 4 man SWF all just clicky clicky and tea bagging. Decided to just play bubba and face camp for the rest of the night
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That's fair. It's the same for them. They don't want to face the same killers and perks the whole time either.
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I think your on the right track lol I don't watch dbd tournaments so I had no idea who she was till I was told last night. It's weird that you'll happily stream, but not during a tournament? That's pretty sus.
I don't know the forums terms when it comes to hinting/naming people so I won't say anything but I'm pretty certain we both know the person.
From what I was shown it was proven they were banned for cheating.
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